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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**

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M

Massa

Member
Dysun said:
He's fat, and fat (over 40-50) = unhealthy and prone to heart attack in paranoid fans minds
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Well, maybe these fans are hardcore enough to believe he'd come back from the dead.

Seriously people, GRRM is relatively young for the age we live in, if he dies it'd be a tragedy. How a fictional story will end doesn't deserve to enter that conversation.
 
H

Hindle

Banned
Quentyn Martels second chapter in ADWD. He joins a mercenary group heading for Merreen doesn't he? I've just read that chapter now and it was a bit confusing.
 
Jibbajabbawockky

Jibbajabbawockky

Member
TCRS said:
He has to stop with that. Too many characters are returning (Catelyn, The Mountain, The Hound, Jon might). Let the dead be dead.
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I agree, but really, the whole coming back from the dead theme has been there from the very first chapter of A Game of Thrones. At least with the Wights and R'hllor zombies like Stoneheart or Beric, you've got some lore justification for it. And who knows what exactly is going on with Gregor. And it seems Sandor maybe never really died- or at least we never saw him die.

Like in most of those cases I don't mind people "coming back from the dead" since there is some cost associated with it. Its not like they're a-ok and back to normal when they're resurrected. Gregor is like some Frankenstein monster, Cat and Beric bear the wounds of their deaths and seem to lose some of their humanity in the process and Sandor seems to have changed his lifestyle maybe.
 
C

CassSept

Member
TCRS said:
He has to stop with that. Too many characters are returning (Catelyn, The Mountain, The Hound, Jon might). Let the dead be dead.
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But Robb as he is, with Grey Wind's head. Turns out that what Danny saw in HotD was really real. THE WOLF IN THE NORTH!
 
C

Crisco

Banned
Jon being dead would honestly be more out of place and uncharacteristic of the series than almost anything else. He's a POV character that's been around since book 1. Other than Cat (who isn't actually dead) and Ned (who was only around for one book), no other major POV character, which I define as characters who've appeared in every book, have died. There is almost 0 chance that Jon is actually dead.
 
U

UpperCaseN

Member
Crisco said:
Jon being dead would honestly be more out of place and uncharacteristic of the series than almost anything else. He's a POV character that's been around since book 1. Other than Cat (who isn't actually dead) and Ned (who was only around for one book), no other major POV character, which I define as characters who've appeared in every book, have died. There is almost 0 chance that Jon is actually dead.
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When book 3 was released, the same thing could've been said of Robb, Joffrey, Tywin, Cat, etc. I don't think we can assume that anyone is safe
 
C

Crisco

Banned
UpperCaseN said:
When book 3 was released, the same thing could've been said of Robb, Joffrey, Tywin, Cat, etc. I don't think we can assume that anyone is safe
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Other than Cat, none of them were POV characters. And again, she's not even dead. The count of permanently dead major POV characters is exactly one: Ned.
 
T

Trez

Neo Member
Crisco said:
Other than Cat, none of them were POV characters. And again, she's not even dead. The count of permanently dead major POV characters is exactly one: Ned.
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I think it's safe to assume Tywin isn't coming back either.

Edit: but then again he wasn't a pov character.. just badass
 
E

Eidan

Member
Crisco said:
Other than Cat, none of them were POV characters. And again, she's not even dead. The count of permanently dead major POV characters is exactly one: Ned.
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Eh, I think it's safe to say that the Cat we knew is dead. I doubt we're ever getting another Cat POV because of this.
 
W

Wh0 N0se

Member
subrock said:
I didn't even consider RobB coming back with the wolf head stitched on. Now I can't even unconsider it.
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Well they did claim that he turned into a wolf when he descended on one of the Lannisters armies (Can't remember which one). TIME TRAVEL WOLF ROBB STARK CONFIRMED.


On a side note, anyone played the Game of Thrones board game, is it any good?
 
C

Crisco

Banned
Eh, Robb coming back as a wolfman isn't much crazier than some of the crackpot theories out there. My favorite is Howland = Jojen Reed.
 
I

Ikael

Member
PhoenixDark said:
I kind of wish the Others didn't exist, or that they weren't such an existential threat. I'm far more interested in other northern plots (Stannis, whether Rickon will return with Davos, battle of Winterfell, Robb's heir, etc), although the Others stuff on the Wall is certainly interesting. It's hard to imagine a scenario that doesn't boil down to Dany arriving and killing the Others, who have broken the North and are marching towards the Trident. And if that's the case, all the political bickering in the south (which I like) has little relevance. Say "Aegon" takes the thrown only to have the Others break the Wall. Eh...
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I think that this is kinda the point of the series. Not to end with the political bickering, mind you, but rather to deconstruct the utterly silly and cliched high fantasy trope of "the good ones uniting to stop the greater evil". It is a common thing in all things Hollywood: mankind last stand against the aliens in Independence Day, the Elves and the HUmans together against the Orcs like brothers, blah, blah, blah. Thing is, in the real world, conquistadores from the outher space (well, ocean) arrives to your world and utterly buttfuck you and your silly squabbles with your neighbours, turning one against each other like it's nobody's business. It doesn't mean the end of the political intrige, but rather its explotation by an external force, impervious theirselves to said intrigue.

That way, the possible final resistance becomes something much more epic and realistic, and believe me, full of politics. Yalta conference, anyone? Only the treath of a seemingly unstoppable impending doom (nazi Germany) made high politics possible, but that was only after half Europe and a big chunk of Africa became occupied. Same thing will happen with this I guess: only when shit hits the fan some kind of alliance will be possible, and still then, it will be an uneasy, fragile one. In fact, if I would have to bet, I would guess that rather than defeat the others, the best thing that Tyrion and the rest would be able to do is to contain the Others in Ponientis, rather than breaking all the hell loose on the rest of the world (Braavos, the free cities and the like). Let's say that Westeros will be a kingdom of man as much as the US is nowadays a native american nation...
 
T

timetokill

Banned
Wh0 N0se said:
On a side note, anyone played the Game of Thrones board game, is it any good?
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I own it/have played it. It's fantastic with 6 people, with less than that it quickly becomes unbalanced. There is an optional component (the Tides of War) that adds a touch of randomness into battles that makes it a lot more fun to play, but ymmv.
 
V

viciouskillersquirrel

Member
Ikael said:
I think that this is kinda the point of the series. Not to end with the political bickering, mind you, but rather to deconstruct the utterly silly and cliched high fantasy trope of "the good ones uniting to stop the greater evil". It is a common thing in all things Hollywood: mankind last stand against the aliens in Independence Day, the Elves and the HUmans together against the Orcs like brothers, blah, blah, blah. Thing is, in the real world, conquistadores from the outher space (well, ocean) arrives to your world and utterly buttfuck you and your silly squabbles with your neighbours, turning one against each other like it's nobody's business. It doesn't mean the end of the political intrige, but rather its explotation by an external force, impervious theirselves to said intrigue.

That way, the possible final resistance becomes something much more epic and realistic, and believe me, full of politics. Yalta conference, anyone? Only the treath of a seemingly unstoppable impending doom (nazi Germany) made high politics possible, but that was only after half Europe and a big chunk of Africa became occupied. Same thing will happen with this I guess: only when shit hits the fan some kind of alliance will be possible, and still then, it will be an uneasy, fragile one. In fact, if I would have to bet, I would guess that rather than defeat the others, the best thing that Tyrion and the rest would be able to do is to contain the Others in Ponientis, rather than breaking all the hell loose on the rest of the world (Braavos, the free cities and the like). Let's say that Westeros will be a kingdom of man as much as the US is nowadays a native american nation...
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En Inglés, se llama Westeros.

I like your idea though.
 
Pollux

Pollux

Member
Basileus777 said:
What else would it do? There's been nothing new to talk about in over 1.5 years. We'll have had every conversation a hundred times by the time the next book is released.
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I just wanted to make sure I'm not the only one who feels that way. It's good to come up with crazy new theories and talk to the newcomers in the thread, but sometimes it just makes you stop and realize that GRRM needs to stop fucking around. I don't think I can handle another wait like ADWD.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
Pollux said:
I just wanted to make sure I'm not the only one who feels that way. It's good to come up with crazy new theories and talk to the newcomers in the thread, but sometimes it just makes you stop and realize that GRRM needs to stop fucking around. I don't think I can handle another wait like ADWD.
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I've become numb to it. I remember post ACOK and ASOS when it felt like new ground was being tread in discussions, then the drought occurred and even AFFC offered little new to discuss. 11 years of those circular discussions...
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
I'm not worried. We know why ADWD/AFFC took so long, and we also know that Martin has cut the Mereenese Knot. I'm not saying it's all smooth sailing from here, I'm sure there's another area that he'll have trouble with. But the heavy lifting is done, series wise. AFFC and much of ADWD are transition novels that largely reset the board after the devastating climaxes of ASOS. Nearly every piece except Dany is set now in the sense that you can clearly see what the next plot is.

For instance ADWD sets up Stannis on the eve of potentially capturing Winterfell/"winning" the North; Cersei's return to power and the Lannister v Tyrell struggle; the alleged return of Aegon and his Southern campaign; Tyrion meeting Dany; the fall of the Wall and Jon's resurrection. Oh and Bran being a tree...
 
J

Jedi2016

Member
suzu said:
Well he's either still missing, dead, or Coldhands. lol
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A co-worker and I were talking about it at lunch today, and we both think he's Coldhands. That while he died/came back, something in the Stark blood keeps the Others from being able to control him.
 
hemtae

hemtae

Member
Jedi2016 said:
A co-worker and I were talking about it at lunch today, and we both think he's Coldhands. That while he died/came back, something in the Stark blood keeps the Others from being able to control him.
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Didn't the children of the forest say he was really old?
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Jedi2016 said:
A co-worker and I were talking about it at lunch today, and we both think he's Coldhands. That while he died/came back, something in the Stark blood keeps the Others from being able to control him.
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Didn't the Child of the Forest say Coldhands was very old? Considering she's thousands of years old, "old" to her would probably reflect that time period. Benjen would have been dead for maybe 1-3 years, doesn't fit imo.

I think he's alive but I'm not sure how, or how it will be explained to readers. Bran and company would have died if they didn't find that cave, and many theories suggest Benjen ventured further than Bran did. Perhaps he also discovered Children of the Forest, and is learning from them before returning to the Wall; or perhaps he joined them and isn't being allowed to leave for some reason (maybe the Children aren't as they appear?).

I don't think he planted the dragon glass; imo it was planted long ago.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Didn't the Child of the Forest say Coldhands was very old? Considering she's thousands of years old, "old" to her would probably reflect that time period. Benjen would have been dead for maybe 1-3 years, doesn't fit imo.

I think he's alive but I'm not sure how, or how it will be explained to readers. Bran and company would have died if they didn't find that cave, and many theories suggest Benjen ventured further than Bran did. Perhaps he also discovered Children of the Forest, and is learning from them before returning to the Wall; or perhaps he joined them and isn't being allowed to leave for some reason (maybe the Children aren't as they appear?).

I don't think he planted the dragon glass; imo it was planted long ago.
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Yea, definitely alive I think. And I think he his status has been kept hidden from the readers for some big revealing purpose.

As said, Coldhands is most likely the Nights King.
 
S

suzu

Member
Coldhands as the Night's King seems likely. Also he is a Stark too, if that turns out to be true.

Or he could just be some random Night's Watch dude, haha. And Benjen is chilling in the Lands of Always Winter.
 
B

brownfedora

Member
suzu said:
Coldhands as the Night's King seems likely. Also he is a Stark too, if that turns out to be true.

Or he could just be some random Night's Watch dude, haha. And Benjen is chilling in the Lands of Always Winter.
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And if Coldhands is a Stark it's likely he helped Benjen go wherever he ended up.
 
E

endlessflood

Member
toddhunter said:
The third option is Bran does some tree level shit to save or revive him.
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That is the most awesome sentence I've read in a long time
BdsfDBJ.gif
 
FootballFan

FootballFan

Member
Edd, fetch me a block.

Anybody want to list their favourite characters.

1. Jon Snow (Dead?)
2. Robb Stark (Dead)
3. Eddard Stark (Dead)/Arya
 
B

Basileus777

Member
Tywin was the best, it's not a coincidence that the series fell off after his death. Every scene he was in and every character he interacted with was better off for it.
 
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