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[bremon]

I'm just pretending this series doesn't exist until TWOW releases. The sample chapters that get put out every so often just get me jonesing for a bigger fix.

And yeah, the "hold your breath for ADWD!" comments at the end of AFFC were laughable in hindsight.

 

[Iksenpets]

But we already know the plan was for Viserys to bring 40k Dothraki riders and join with Aegon (plus the Golden Company). It seems like Dany was little more than a pawn in all of this. I really like viciouskillersquirrel's idea about her being killed to enrage Drogo and convince him to come to Westeros for revenge. Perhaps Varys called off the assassination because he hadn't had enough time to set the stage in King's Landing.

But perhaps it's more likely that Aegon, Dany, and Viserys were to be the three heads

I always thought that The point of Viserys and the Dothraki was to be so awful, with Viserys playing Mad King 2.0 now with added pillaging foreigners, that people would gladly welcome wonderful King Aegon to save them. The whole Viserys plot seemed timed to happen immediately prior to Aegon's invasion, rather than alongside it, until the whole thing fell apart with Drogo and Viserys' deaths.

 

[Pollux]

I think the end game was always Aegon.

Both Varys and Illirio wanted to set up a stable kingdom somewhere under a just ruler because of some ideological dream they both share combined with the kind of megalomania you only get from having risen as far as you can go. They couldn't have set anything like that up in the Free Cities because those places were too disjointed, both culturally and politically and a ruler's hard power only extends as far the city limits, and even then, rival power centres (priesthoods, guilds etc) divide your authority further still.

Contrast this with Westeros, where, despite the divisions, rulers have some measure of control over their vast lands. The Targaryens ruled a kingdom big enough to engulf not only all the territory of the Free Cities and Disputed Lands but Andalos to boot. One king, one set of laws, one language and one culture. If you were aiming to maximise your impact on history, Westeros is where you'd do it.

They hear that the king of Westeros is insane but that his son is well-liked and they smell an opportunity to make their dream come true. So they came up with a plan.

1) Get in good with the Royal family

2) Fill the heir's head with dreams of destiny, just rule and utopia, making yourself his most invaluable advisor, friend and greatest champion. At the same time, make the king himself the most hated man in the realm.

3) Engineer the king's death

4) Profit!

The only problem with the plan was that it almost worked too well. Rhaegar let the prophecies get to his head, yes, but he also convinced himself that getting some Northern poontang was the only way to fulfil his destiny. Had he never done that,Robert wouldn't have hated him and his rebellion would never have been against the Targaryens in general, but Aerys in particular and in fact Robert and the rest of the high lords might have accepted Rhaegar on the throne instead.

Basically, Lyanna ruined everything.

Trying to pick up the pieces of the plan, Varys and Illirio set their sights on the next generation of Targaryens. They know that Baratheon hegemony is unstable, so baby Aegon is their horse. The new plan:

1) Make Aegon into the second coming of Rhaegar

2) Bide time until he comes of age

3) Destabilise the realm by killing Robert. Cause chaos.

4) Raise an army to invade with Aegon at the head

5) Invade and take over. Join the new regime as their most trusted advisors.

6) Profit!

Where Dany and Viserys came in was in step 4. The sub-plan was:

4.A) Make a deal with Khal Drogo to invade Westeros in exchange for a Targaryen bride

4.B) Send some assassin out to kill Dany and any of her children. Make sure the assassin is Westerosi and that it's absolutely clear that King Robert is behind it.

4.C) Vomiting with rage, Khal Drogo will drop everything to rush to Pentos, to Illirio and Viserys, 40,000 Dothraki screamers at his back.

4.D) He will arrive to find Viserys mysteriously missing and/or dead. That doesn't matter though, since Dany's long-lost nephew is here. AND he conveniently has ships.

4.E) Invasion happens. Khal Drogo gets his revenge on Robert (and a lot of booty). Having no interest in actually ruling Westeros and having no heir to give it to, Khal Drogo goes home with lots of treasure, his nephew on the throne.

Varys and Illirio thought they could pull it off. They, after all, just came off the big leagues of political intrigue in the Free Cities and probably thought that their Westerosi equivalents were novices by comparison.

Thing is, they can't plan for or control everything. The dragons, for one, or Viserys going with Drogo to the Dothraki sea, Robert's impetuousness in wanting Dany dead, or Khal Drogo dying from an infected nipple scratch and his army fracturing / dissipating thereafter.

Chances are, after Drogo died, they just wrote off that part of the plan. Dany starts taking over Slaver cities and suddenly she becomes useful again. Maybe they can co-opt those dragons by marrying her off to Aegon. It would certainly lend him some extra legitimacy, which can't hurt.

Point is, even if that doesn't work, Dany is not a critical part of the plan. The main thing is to destabilise Westeros and get it ready for invasion by Aegon and the Golden Company.

Well said.

 

[ToyMachine228]

Just finished a Storm of Swords. Is FFC really just filler or does it serve a purpose and people just exaggerate the filler thing?

 

[CrunchyB]

Just finished a Storm of Swords. Is FFC really just filler or does it serve a purpose and people just exaggerate the filler thing?

AGOT and ACOK were the setup, ASOS was the big payoff.

AFFC (and to a lesser extent, ADWD) is Martin placing new pieces on the board. He's working towards some epic events, but none of that is found in the next two books. So people are disappointed.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Just finished a Storm of Swords. Is FFC really just filler or does it serve a purpose and people just exaggerate the filler thing?

It's not filler but after the steady crescendo of the first three books it can seem droll and meandering the first time you read it. The fact that it's essentially a poorly-edited half of one enormous book and the accompanying cliffhanger ending also don't help but make you feel shafted. It's still great writing, however, and could be made better if you take a short break upon finishing ASOS before diving back in.

I jumped into AFFC right away and got whiplash from the change in pace. It took me a second reading with updated expectations to really enjoy the book.

 

[RaidenZR]

It's not filler but after the steady crescendo of the first three books it can seem droll and meandering the first time you read it. The fact that it's essentially a poorly-edited half of one enormous book and the accompanying cliffhanger ending also don't help but make you feel shafted. It's still great writing, however, and could be made better if you take a short break upon finishing ASOS before diving back in.

I jumped into AFFC right away and got whiplash from the change in pace. It took me a second reading with updated expectations to really enjoy the book.

I second this. Sums up my feelings pretty accurately.

 

[ezrarh]

It's not filler but after the steady crescendo of the first three books it can seem droll and meandering the first time you read it. The fact that it's essentially a poorly-edited half of one enormous book and the accompanying cliffhanger ending also don't help but make you feel shafted. It's still great writing, however, and could be made better if you take a short break upon finishing ASOS before diving back in.

I jumped into AFFC right away and got whiplash from the change in pace. It took me a second reading with updated expectations to really enjoy the book.

I triple this. First time I read it, I was rushing through the Greyjoy chapters to see if I would actually read about the main characters in ASoS and was severely disappointed and then I saw the note left by Martin at the end. LOL

 

[Baraka in the White House]

I pretty much HAD to reread AFFC because I did the same thing, just kind of skimmed through it reading really quickly without paying attention. I wanted to get to the part where it returned to the ASOS pacing and intensity but it never does.

AFFC/ADWD is basically Martin working his way through the Mereeneese Knot, for better or for worse.

 

[TCRS]

yup, it was a board reshuffling exercise. Now it's reshuffled, so I hope the last two books will be back to ASOS pacing. They should be, we can expect many battles and crazy outcomes from them.

 

[venom2124]

The whole Illyrio/Varys conspiracy stinks of a giant plot hole to me that GRRM will probably largely ignore. Specifically, I don't think we'll ever get a clear answer as to what exactly they intended Viserys/Dany to do with the Dothraki or how it relates with the Aegon/Golden Company invasion.

I'm rereading the first book and have to agree. When they are discussing what to do with Ned, Illyrio more than implies that Varys had a hand in Arryn's death. Then Varys rattles off what he thinks about others in the realm. He mentions that he does not know what Littlefinger is up to. So Varys and Littlefinger didn't conspire to kill the Hand. The whole conversation pretty much confused the hell out of me. I would love for Martin to clear that scene up but I doubt he will talk about it until the series is over.

 

[Blatz]

I'm rereading the first book and have to agree. When they are discussing what to do with Ned, Illyrio more than implies that Varys had a hand in Arryn's death. Then Varys rattles off what he thinks about others in the realm. He mentions that he does not know what Littlefinger is up to. So Varys and Littlefinger didn't conspire to kill the Hand. The whole conversation pretty much confused the hell out of me. I would love for Martin to clear that scene up but I doubt he will talk about it until the series is over.

Have you guys seen towerofthehand.com? Might be of interest to you. Make sure you set the scope at the top center of the screen to match what you've read.

http://towerofthehand.com/reference/k/00005/index.html
http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/jon_arryn.html

 

[Wh0 N0se]

Just wondering, is this very early foreshadowing?

Arya goes down to the dungeons and overhears Illyrio's and Varys's conversation, Illyrio calls Varys a wizard and Arya tells the story to Eddard. He sends her off when Yoren arrives and she's talking to Desmond about her fathers protection, she asks Desmond if they would be able to stop a wizard and Desmond replies
'...wizards die the same as other men, once you cut their heads off'.

Is this very early foreshadowing that Varys is doomed to fail and ultimately lose his head, I'm probably reading too much into this and even without reading this bit I think it's pretty likely that Varys won't survive to the end of the series.

 

[Trojita]

I was just thinking about how Aegon's quest to the throne isn't going to go smoothly at all. He really hasn't done anything himself. John Connington is doing everything for him. It's kind of hard to imagine it because of the show and how Aegon sounds young in the book, but Aegon is older than Jon Snow and Jon Snow is only 15. Jon Snow has been through way more than Aegon. It almost makes Aegon's quest so far seem like a cake walk.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

I was just thinking about how Aegon's quest to the throne isn't going to go smoothly at all. He really hasn't done anything himself. John Connington is doing everything for him. It's kind of hard to imagine it because of the show and how Aegon sounds young in the book, but Aegon is older than Jon Snow and Jon Snow is only 15. Jon Snow has been through way more than Aegon. It almost makes Aegon's quest so far seem like a cake walk.

Which is why I think Aegon wants to lead the attack on Storm's End. Remember that Tyrion put the idea into Aegon's head that he'd need to get Dany's attention and earn her respect by doing something big, not just finding her and demanding that she marry him.

 

[Basileus777]

I was just thinking about how Aegon's quest to the throne isn't going to go smoothly at all. He really hasn't done anything himself. John Connington is doing everything for him. It's kind of hard to imagine it because of the show and how Aegon sounds young in the book, but Aegon is older than Jon Snow and Jon Snow is only 15. Jon Snow has been through way more than Aegon. It almost makes Aegon's quest so far seem like a cake walk.

George Martin is writing this. Once Varys gave that speech to Kevan about how wonderful Aegon is, I knew GRRM was going to give Aegon a terrible fate to subvert all of that.

Look at this:

“No.” The eunuch’s voice seemed deeper. “He is here. Aegon has been shaped for rule since before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows that kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them.”

GRRM was probably laughing when he wrote this. There's no way it's not going to end in tragedy.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

George Martin is writing this. Once Varys gave that speech to Kevan about how wonderful Aegon is, I knew GRRM was going to give Aegon a terrible fate to subvert all of that.

In the end Martin reveals that Joffrey actually survived the poisoning and somehow the Lannisters kill Dany's dragons while Jon sacrifices himself to destroy the Others. A thousand years of Lannister rule begins with a crazed, paranoid Joffrey on the throne. Tyrion dies from a tapeworm. The end.

 

[bengraven]

I'm still convinced Ned has a bastard out there.

Maybe that Dayne kid. He basically had to switch his bastard with Lyanna's.

 

[Trojita]

I'm still convinced Ned has a bastard out there.

Maybe that Dayne kid. He basically had to switch his bastard with Lyanna's.

You mean Edric "Ned" Dayne?

lol, He is too young though. He was about 12 in ASOS.

 

[bengraven]

You mean Edric "Ned" Dayne?

lol, He is too young though. He was about 12 in ASOS.

That's true, but...so...maybe a certain beautiful white-haired woman took a Stark with her when she was dashed upon the waves?

Or maybe Aegon is actually Ashara Dayne's kid (that would still count as a "mummer's dragon" since they'd be using his hair to trick people into thinking he was a Targ)...with Ned.
Maybe the Sister who's traveling with him is actually his mom.

 

[Joni]

Maybe that Dayne kid. He basically had to switch his bastard with Lyanna's.

He only needs to have a bastard himself if people knew or thought Lyanna was pregnant. Only a couple people would know that Lyanna was pregnant or not. Rhaegar, Ned, Howland Reed and the knights that died at the Tower of Joy. He wouldn't need to leave a baby of himself because nobody would ask about Lyanna's kid.

 

[adamsappel]

George Martin is writing this. Once Varys gave that speech to Kevan about how wonderful Aegon is, I knew GRRM was going to give Aegon a terrible fate to subvert all of that.

Look at this:
GRRM was probably laughing when he wrote this. There's no way it's not going to end in tragedy.

I think it was John Irving who said something like this: "Write the most interesting characters, and kill them in the most horrible ways."

 

[venom2124]

Have you guys seen towerofthehand.com? Might be of interest to you. Make sure you set the scope at the top center of the screen to match what you've read.

http://towerofthehand.com/reference/k/00005/index.html
http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/jon_arryn.html

Thank you for the link. It still seems strange to me that Varys would basically confess to the murder unless he truly did manipulate Lysa in some way. Which doesn't really fit because Littlefinger and his unknown motives muddy up the whole affair.

 

[Wh0 N0se]

I know this is completely random considering what everyone else is posting above me but how annoyed would you be if Walder Frey died of old age! Har!

 

[Joni]

I know this is completely random considering what everyone else is posting above me but how annoyed would you be if Walder Frey died of old age! Har!

Not alot, although I would prefer if he first saw all his children die. Someone should just lay siege to the Twins and demand he send out one son each week.

 

[BobTheFork]

Not alot, although I would prefer if he first saw all his children die. Someone should just lay siege to the Twins and demand he send out one son each week.

If he sent one a week, he WOULD die of old age before he got through them all.

 

[bengraven]

He only needs to have a bastard himself if people knew or thought Lyanna was pregnant. Only a couple people would know that Lyanna was pregnant or not. Rhaegar, Ned, Howland Reed and the knights that died at the Tower of Joy. He wouldn't need to leave a baby of himself because nobody would ask about Lyanna's kid.

Story-wise he doesn't need a bastard at all. Jon covers plenty of bases.

But I can just see it happening and there are a few hints that maybe he did.

 

[RaidenZR]

Story-wise he doesn't need a bastard at all. Jon covers plenty of bases.

But I can just see it happening and there are a few hints that maybe he did.

What are those hints? Just curious...

 

[PhoenixDark]

Which is why I think Aegon wants to lead the attack on Storm's End. Remember that Tyrion put the idea into Aegon's head that he'd need to get Dany's attention and earn her respect by doing something big, not just finding her and demanding that she marry him.

TWOW spoiler

Spoiler

He leads the attack and takes Storm's Wind, although we don't know how it was done. Many think it was done through some trickery, perhaps pretending to be Stannis men and entering the gates.

Aegon seems like he could be dangerous, but at the same time he is impulsive and young; he may win the throne but I expect him to die sooner rather than later. Luckily for him he has Connington to do a lot of the battle commanding, and also we must remember that many of the realm's foremost military leaders - Tywin, Stannis, Kevan - are either dead or far from the south. Mace Tyrell is a fool and will likely stay in KL until the trial is over. Randyll Tarly is probably the only real threat to Aegon/Connington, and the trial could also tie him up depending on whether Margery is convicted or not.

 

[bengraven]

What are those hints? Just curious...

I got the gist while reading that there was something we're missing. I don't think GRRM's constant mentions of Willa or Dayne are just red herrings. Something...I don't know. I know that's not conclusive to discussion, but that's my point: there's just something I or we are not seeing in that regards, I feel.

I'm not alone.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/73944-wheres-neds-bastards/

 

[Joni]

I got the gist while reading that there was something we're missing. I don't think GRRM's constant mentions of Willa or Dayne are just red herrings. Something...I don't know. I know that's not conclusive to discussion, but that's my point: there's just something I or we are not seeing in that regards, I feel.

But it would be strange for an honorable man like Ned to completely ignore this child, never even thinking about it. Taking him home is exactly what Ned would do for his bastards, especially if it was a child by Ashara Dayne who he was close to. I like to think Ned is one of the true heroes in the saga, the only person incapable of keeping secrets aside from Lyanna's. Of course GRRM has still time to change that, but I think it would be more likely for Brandon/Benjen to be behind it if the Ashara baby was a Stark.

 

[Wh0 N0se]

TWOW spoiler

Spoiler

He leads the attack and takes Storm's Wind, although we don't know how it was done. Many think it was done through some trickery, perhaps pretending to be Stannis men and entering the gates.

Aegon seems like he could be dangerous, but at the same time he is impulsive and young; he may win the throne but I expect him to die sooner rather than later. Luckily for him he has Connington to do a lot of the battle commanding, and also we must remember that many of the realm's foremost military leaders - Tywin, Stannis, Kevan - are either dead or far from the south. Mace Tyrell is a fool and will likely stay in KL until the trial is over. Randyll Tarly is probably the only real threat to Aegon/Connington, and the trial could also tie him up depending on whether Margery is convicted or not.

How long does Jon Connington actually have left though?

 

[PhoenixDark]

How long does Jon Connington actually have left though?

Maybe half a year? I think that would be enough time to win over some major houses, secure a marriage alliance, and win a couple big battles. But after he dies I wonder who will be the next POV to show us Aegon's movements.

It would be hilarious if he married Sansa lol

 

[rando14]

Maybe half a year? I think that would be enough time to win over some major houses, secure a marriage alliance, and win a couple big battles. But after he dies I wonder who will be the next POV to show us Aegon's movements.

It would be hilarious if he married Sansa lol

Lol poor Sansa, so many marriages and proposals to dudes she doesn't even know

 

[John Dunbar]

How long does Jon Connington actually have left though?

If I recall correctly, I think he hoped to be alive and useful for a few years, maybe two. Of course I don't think he's an expert on greyscale.

 

[RaidenZR]

Maybe half a year? I think that would be enough time to win over some major houses, secure a marriage alliance, and win a couple big battles. But after he dies I wonder who will be the next POV to show us Aegon's movements.

It would be hilarious if he married Sansa lol

Varys

Spoiler

(kidding)

And I know George said no more new POV's but he could always change his mind or service Aegon by way of one-offs (a la Melisandre in ADWD).

 

[hemtae]

Maybe half a year? I think that would be enough time to win over some major houses, secure a marriage alliance, and win a couple big battles. But after he dies I wonder who will be the next POV to show us Aegon's movements.

It would be hilarious if he married Sansa lol

TWOW

Spoiler

Arianne was heading towards Aegon so maybe her

 

[PhoenixDark]

TWOW

Spoiler

Arianne was heading towards Aegon so maybe her

Spoiler

Ah forgot about that. She's heading his way and I'd imagine will stay in the south. Can't wait to get her reaction to Quentyn's death, given the negative views she already has about Dany. I could see her doing something very rash whereas Doran might want to get as much info/context as possible first

 

[Wh0 N0se]

TWOW (kinda)

Spoiler

In a bizarre twist of fate Arianne is killed on her journey to Aegon and Connington breaks down due to the greyscale leaving Areo Hotah to follow Aegons progress in taking the Iron Throne
Serve, obey, Protect

One can dream haha!

 

[Steelyuhas]

Spoiler

Ah forgot about that. She's heading his way and I'd imagine will stay in the south. Can't wait to get her reaction to Quentyn's death, given the negative views she already has about Dany. I could see her doing something very rash whereas Doran might want to get as much info/context as possible first

Spoiler

She red wedding's Dany! TWIST

 

[Drkirby]

So, its safe to say that Sam likely has the Real Horn of Winter, but not only that, I think its safe to say Horn burned with Mance was the same kind of Dragonbinder horn Euron has. Both Long Black Horns, with bands of old gold covered in Runes. To me, this leads to the likelihood there are Dragons in the North, or at least some renaming Dragon Eggs, and that Bran will likely come to be a Dragon Skin Changer, rather then a mere bird.

 

[Wh0 N0se]

I wonder whether you have to be close to the wall when blowing the horn of Joramun, could Sam blow it whilst in Oldtown and the wall come down?

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

So I've been frequenting a wiki dedicated to A Song of Ice and Fire series for a while now. I get to see numerous artists' work on asoiaf characters and their depiction of said characters.

And one stood out the most was Aegon Targaryen's picture. Kinda odd for the art to a bit anime'ish. It was actually a main character from Dante's Inferno

ps. I never played Dante games

 

[Eidan]

So I've been frequenting a wiki dedicated to A Song of Ice and Fire series for a while now. I get to see numerous artists' work on asoiaf characters and their depiction of said characters.

And one stood out the most was Aegon Targaryen's picture. Kinda odd for the art to a bit anime'ish. It was actually a main character from Dante's Inferno


http://i.imgur.com/MvoW63y.jpg[IMG]

ps. I never played Dante games[/QUOTE]

That just looks like Dante from Devil May Cry.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

That just looks like Dante from Devil May Cry.

'Cause it actually is. Someone pointed it out on the asoiaf subreddit

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

I think the end game was always Aegon.

Both Varys and Illirio wanted to set up a stable kingdom somewhere under a just ruler because of some ideological dream they both share combined with the kind of megalomania you only get from having risen as far as you can go. They couldn't have set anything like that up in the Free Cities because those places were too disjointed, both culturally and politically and a ruler's hard power only extends as far the city limits, and even then, rival power centres (priesthoods, guilds etc) divide your authority further still.

Contrast this with Westeros, where, despite the divisions, rulers have some measure of control over their vast lands. The Targaryens ruled a kingdom big enough to engulf not only all the territory of the Free Cities and Disputed Lands but Andalos to boot. One king, one set of laws, one language and one culture. If you were aiming to maximise your impact on history, Westeros is where you'd do it.

They hear that the king of Westeros is insane but that his son is well-liked and they smell an opportunity to make their dream come true. So they came up with a plan.

1) Get in good with the Royal family

2) Fill the heir's head with dreams of destiny, just rule and utopia, making yourself his most invaluable advisor, friend and greatest champion. At the same time, make the king himself the most hated man in the realm.

3) Engineer the king's death

4) Profit!

The only problem with the plan was that it almost worked too well. Rhaegar let the prophecies get to his head, yes, but he also convinced himself that getting some Northern poontang was the only way to fulfil his destiny. Had he never done that,Robert wouldn't have hated him and his rebellion would never have been against the Targaryens in general, but Aerys in particular and in fact Robert and the rest of the high lords might have accepted Rhaegar on the throne instead.

Basically, Lyanna ruined everything.

Trying to pick up the pieces of the plan, Varys and Illirio set their sights on the next generation of Targaryens. They know that Baratheon hegemony is unstable, so baby Aegon is their horse. The new plan:

1) Make Aegon into the second coming of Rhaegar

2) Bide time until he comes of age

3) Destabilise the realm by killing Robert. Cause chaos.

4) Raise an army to invade with Aegon at the head

5) Invade and take over. Join the new regime as their most trusted advisors.

6) Profit!

Where Dany and Viserys came in was in step 4. The sub-plan was:

4.A) Make a deal with Khal Drogo to invade Westeros in exchange for a Targaryen bride

4.B) Send some assassin out to kill Dany and any of her children. Make sure the assassin is Westerosi and that it's absolutely clear that King Robert is behind it.

4.C) Vomiting with rage, Khal Drogo will drop everything to rush to Pentos, to Illirio and Viserys, 40,000 Dothraki screamers at his back.

4.D) He will arrive to find Viserys mysteriously missing and/or dead. That doesn't matter though, since Dany's long-lost nephew is here. AND he conveniently has ships.

4.E) Invasion happens. Khal Drogo gets his revenge on Robert (and a lot of booty). Having no interest in actually ruling Westeros and having no heir to give it to, Khal Drogo goes home with lots of treasure, his nephew on the throne.

Varys and Illirio thought they could pull it off. They, after all, just came off the big leagues of political intrigue in the Free Cities and probably thought that their Westerosi equivalents were novices by comparison.

Thing is, they can't plan for or control everything. The dragons, for one, or Viserys going with Drogo to the Dothraki sea, Robert's impetuousness in wanting Dany dead, or Khal Drogo dying from an infected nipple scratch and his army fracturing / dissipating thereafter.

Chances are, after Drogo died, they just wrote off that part of the plan. Dany starts taking over Slaver cities and suddenly she becomes useful again. Maybe they can co-opt those dragons by marrying her off to Aegon. It would certainly lend him some extra legitimacy, which can't hurt.

Point is, even if that doesn't work, Dany is not a critical part of the plan. The main thing is to destabilise Westeros and get it ready for invasion by Aegon and the Golden Company.

Aegon is a Blackfyre and is Illirio's child. illirio's dead wife was a blackfyre. There are lots of posts about this around the internet if you google. Obviously this is just a theory like all the rest but there is evidence to back it up.

Why would Varys come to Westeros to become an adviser? Sure he has a place at court but he was already a rich man. He has no lands or real claim to anything. No allies there. Plus it is costing Illirio tons of money to keep sending kids over there. Where is the profit in this scenario without someone to take over the realm for them?

I don't know when Aegon was born (if he isn't the real Aegon) and how it compares to how long Varys has been in Westeros. I'm guessing it's pretty damn close though. I'm going to guess if he wasn't born yet Illirio was still hoping to get his wife pregnant sooner or later

Everything else makes pretty good sense though.

 

[Crisco]

I got the gist while reading that there was something we're missing. I don't think GRRM's constant mentions of Willa or Dayne are just red herrings. Something...I don't know. I know that's not conclusive to discussion, but that's my point: there's just something I or we are not seeing in that regards, I feel.

I'm not alone.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/73944-wheres-neds-bastards/

They are red herrings, but not in the way you think. GRRM is constantly trying to make us wonder "who is Jon Snow's mother/father" , when it really doesn't matter. At all. We already know for sure he's a Stark, either Eddard's or Lyanna's (again, it doesn't matter), and that's all that counts. Whoever his other parent was is inconsequential.

 

[exYle]

They are red herrings, but not in the way you think. GRRM is constantly trying to make us wonder "who is Jon Snow's mother/father" , when it really doesn't matter. At all. We already know for sure he's a Stark, either Eddard's or Lyanna's (again, it doesn't matter), and that's all that counts. Whoever his other parent was is inconsequential.

Why doesn't it matter? If Jon is a Targaryen bastard that has quite a few implications for the story

 

[Crisco]

I guess if you still think the story is going to end with Dany flying to the wall with her dragons, fighting off the others, marrying Jon and then two go on to live happily ever after as King and Queen of Westeros, then sure, it matters. I personally think it's pretty clear through five books that's never going to happen.

 

[ToyMachine228]

My biggest disappointment with Rob's death in SoS (Just started FFC) is that we won't get an epic battle trying to take Cailan, a place that's never been taken. I was really looking forward to that.