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[John Dunbar]

Also, I don't think it was ever specified what exactly happened to the will. The two who went to the swamps were said to have taken fake written orders in case they were captured, but no one said they took the will as well. and since such a precaution seemed necessary, why would robb let them take the will with them?

 

[Wh0 N0se]

Howland Reed is king in the North!!!!

Incidentally anyone got a link to the Richard Madden interview they are on about? Or at least, which thread it is posted in? Thanks.

 

[bengraven]

I know what Mel played a huge part, but Mance being able to switch identities like a Faceless Man...I don't know, I guess I would be stretching a LOT to say it was an inherited ability that he had Mel "unlock".

But it was a theory.

I'm actually convinced Mance knew Benjen and has more to say. I think we'll see Benjen alive and well. Maybe in Hardhome (?) (if it's still alive) or farther north.

 

[LegendofJoe]

For all we know Robb could have named Benjen his heir. Would he have had any means of communicating with the Watch to know he was missing?

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

For all we know Robb could have named Benjen his heir. Would he have had any means of communicating with the Watch to know he was missing?

There was a thread in the A Ring of Ice and Fire forum that Robb named

Spoiler

Jon

his heir. The poster's source was in the asoiaf app

I think the spoiler tag is so short anyone can guess who it is....but again the books will reveal it eventually

 

[PhoenixDark]

I missed pretty much everything when I read through the books lol



What was this? I don't remember reading about it or seeing anyone post about it before?

After leaving King's Landing, Littlefinger asked Cersei to send him some of Robert's tapestries. He later tells Sansa (in AFFC) that they'll be arriving soon. Basically the theory is that Littlefinger will use them to make the point that Tommen is not Robert's son, perhaps to the lords declarant of the Vale before crowning Sansa queen.

The other theory is that the tapestries could be Targaryen, since the Baratheons are cousins to that line. He could use them to drape the Vale in red and black and offer an alliance to Dany, whom he knows about. Perhaps even Aegon.

 

[LegendofJoe]

There was a thread in the A Ring of Ice and Fire forum that Robb named

Spoiler

Jon

his heir. The poster's source was in the asoiaf app

I think the spoiler tag is so short anyone can guess who it is....but again the books will reveal it eventually

I hate the Nights Watch conspirators a whole lot more now, there is no way they weren't on the take from someone playing the game.

 

[TCRS]

Howland Reed is king in the North!!!!

Incidentally anyone got a link to the Richard Madden interview they are on about? Or at least, which thread it is posted in? Thanks.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=50691900&postcount=4218

loads of interviews further down.

 

[Wh0 N0se]

After leaving King's Landing, Littlefinger asked Cersei to send him some of Robert's tapestries. He later tells Sansa (in AFFC) that they'll be arriving soon. Basically the theory is that Littlefinger will use them to make the point that Tommen is not Robert's son, perhaps to the lords declarant of the Vale before crowning Sansa queen.

The other theory is that the tapestries could be Targaryen, since the Baratheons are cousins to that line. He could use them to drape the Vale in red and black and offer an alliance to Dany, whom he knows about. Perhaps even Aegon.

Ah, very interesting, his plans are always hard to work out, even Varys says so in AGOT, whether this pans out is interesting. Thanks for the reply.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=50691900&postcount=4218

loads of interviews further down.

Cheers. Gonna take a look at them now.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

There is no way Benjen is Mance. Both Mance and Benjen were present at the feast that welcomed King Robert to Winterfell. It'd be completely inconsistent, too. Mance is a former NW brother and known to the NW for years, it just wouldn't make any sense.

Isn't it mentioned somewhere that they mined directly into the volcanoes and that there were fire wyrms of some sort within the magma? That slaves were regularly cooked and disfigured by the fire?

Yeah there were mines on Valyria, presumably they mined some sort of iron to eventually forge the Valyrian steel alloy.

 

[Admiral Bone to Pick]

Would Littlefinger benefit from questioning Tommen's legitimacy? If it was revealed that Tommen wasn't really Robert's son, then Stannis would be the indisputable heir to the throne. Stannis would never want to ally himself with Littlefinger, and Littlefinger would immediately earn the enmity of the Lannisters and Tyrells. It seems too direct for him.

Also I don't think Robert would keep a lot of Targaryen tapestries around if he hated them.

 

[Drkirby]

I wonder if there is more to the Warlocks then meats the eyes, there seems to be a ton of similarities to Green Seers. For example, the Shades of the Evening they drink are made from Black Trees with Blue Leaves, basically the opposate of the Weirwoods with White Bark and Red leaves. The Shades of the Evening have a similar description in taste to the Weirwood paste. The Undying ones seem to also be in a similar state to Brynden, and the Doors to the Temple of the Many Faced God has Weirwood on one side, and an unspecified Ebony Wood on the other, possibly the same wood the Warlocks make use of.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Would Littlefinger benefit from questioning Tommen's legitimacy? If it was revealed that Tommen wasn't really Robert's son, then Stannis would be the indisputable heir to the throne. Stannis would never want to ally himself with Littlefinger, and Littlefinger would immediately earn the enmity of the Lannisters and Tyrells. It seems too direct for him.

Also I don't think Robert would keep a lot of Targaryen tapestries around if he hated them.

It would make Stannis the rightful king but I don't think that would convince many to join him, given his religion and small force; it would be more about justifying Sansa as Queen of the North than anything else. A Queen Sansa could certainly hold the north given the chaos in the south right now, so I think Littlefinger's plan makes sense...unfortunately he doesn't know exactly what's going on in the north, or about Rickon.

In terms of Targ stuff, King's Landing had an entire room of dragon skulls. I'm willing to believe it also has various other stuff from that era.

 

[Cornballer]

- Zap2It: George R.R. Martin on his new HBO drama, 'The Winds of Winter' and the Red Wedding

Speaking of those two more books, Martin is currently working on the penultimate installment on the "ASoIaF" saga. "A Dance with Dragons," book 5, came out in 2011, and fans had to wait six years for its release. Martin said he hopes that book 6, "The Winds of Winter," doesn't take nearly as long.

"I'm working on it. It's going to be a monster. It's going to take a real long time," he said. "I'm not making any predictions when it's going to be done, but I hope it will be faster than the last two. I'm certainly trying to get it done faster than the last two."

Martin has been reading chapters from the incomplete book at fan conventions and even posted one to his website, and said he expects those chapters to make it into the final "Winds of Winter" cut. "I never say definitely, but those are pretty close to final chapters. Unless something really radical happens -- and I'm not saying that won't happen, I do sometimes make changes -- I think those chapters will be in the final book," he said.

And fans don't need to keep stressing out about Martin potentially stretching "ASoIaF" into eight books instead of his planned seven. Zap2it asked Martin whether he thinks he'll need to add an eighth book to the series like he's said in the past, and he said he doesn't plan to.

"No, seven books. I'm still aiming for seven books, but once again, I don't write anything in blood," he said. "I really regard it as one story: beginning, middle, end. If it takes seven books, if it takes eight books, if it takes 103 books, I've got to tell the whole story. I'm not going to truncate it just because I only said so many books. It's a question of to reach the end and to wrap the story up the way I want to wrap it up."

 

[EviLore]

"I'm working on it. It's going to be a monster. It's going to take a real long time," he said. "I'm not making any predictions when it's going to be done"

"No, seven books. I'm still aiming for seven books, but once again, I don't write anything in blood," he said. "I really regard it as one story: beginning, middle, end. If it takes seven books, if it takes eight books, if it takes 103 books, I've got to tell the whole story

RIP ASOIAF. Time to switch to the HBO series.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I'd love for someone to ask how he views the books in terms of beginning, middle, and end. The first three seem like the beginning, with AFFC/ADWD being a transitional middle; thus making TWOW and the final book the end. Then again perhaps he would consider ASOS a part of the middle too.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

Dammit

Was expecting an 8th at least....

"I don't write anything in blood" - By that he means there's small chance of writing the 8th book?

 

[Wh0 N0se]

- Zap2It: George R.R. Martin on his new HBO drama, 'The Winds of Winter' and the Red Wedding

Not really sure how to react to that I guess, seems like he hasn't ran into any problems so far though, which is good. If it only took a small time I think most people would be glad to have an eighth book, but only if the wait wasn't too long.

It would make Stannis the rightful king but I don't think that would convince many to join him, given his religion and small force; it would be more about justifying Sansa as Queen of the North than anything else. A Queen Sansa could certainly hold the north given the chaos in the south right now, so I think Littlefinger's plan makes sense...unfortunately he doesn't know exactly what's going on in the north, or about Rickon.

In terms of Targ stuff, King's Landing had an entire room of dragon skulls. I'm willing to believe it also has various other stuff from that era.

Are we going to get a situation where Robbs letter comes out into the open and Jon is announced heir just as he is brought back to life as everyone expects, Manderly and Davos recover Rickon and Sansa marries Harry the Heir and they all declare themselves, who would step aside? Sansa has no massive love for Jon and if he did declare Littlefinger would obviously be none too pleased.

 

[LegendofJoe]

I know people make excuses for writers saying you can't put a deadline on that kind of work but I call BS. Pretty much everyone in the working world works with deadlines, and that includes creative types. You set yourself a date and then you bust ass as hard as you can to make it. If you're lucky enough to be given additional time you set a new date and then try just as hard to improve on what you've already done. Martin has just gotten lazy, there's no way around it.

 

[EviLore]

I know people make excuses for writers saying you can't put a deadline on that kind of work but I call BS. Pretty much everyone in the working world works with deadlines, and that includes creative types. You set yourself a date and then you bust ass as hard as you can to make it. If you're lucky enough to be given additional time you set a new date and then try just as hard to improve on what you've already done. Martin has just gotten lazy, there's no way around it.

He doesn't want to compromise and doesn't have to. Unfortunately this can create problems with bloat and lack of initiative. Many of the best creative works in history were made with strict parameters and deadlines. It's a different beast than sharing creative oversight.

 

[Steelyuhas]

RIP ASOIAF. Time to switch to the HBO series.

103 books confirmed

 

[Emerson]

I'd love for someone to ask how he views the books in terms of beginning, middle, and end. The first three seem like the beginning, with AFFC/ADWD being a transitional middle; thus making TWOW and the final book the end. Then again perhaps he would consider ASOS a part of the middle too.

Considering that he originally (when the series was a trilogy) wanted the first book to begin where AGOT did and encompass most of ASOS (including the Red Wedding), I think it's relatively safe to say that he'd look at it as AGOT, ACOK, ASOS -> AFFC, ADWD -> TWOW, ADOS

 

[John Dunbar]

I know people make excuses for writers saying you can't put a deadline on that kind of work but I call BS. Pretty much everyone in the working world works with deadlines, and that includes creative types. You set yourself a date and then you bust ass as hard as you can to make it. If you're lucky enough to be given additional time you set a new date and then try just as hard to improve on what you've already done. Martin has just gotten lazy, there's no way around it.

The kind of creative people in the "working world" are not the kind of creative people Martin is, who really does not have a deadline if he chooses not to have one. Let's say he decides to get 5 chapters done a month, what is there to hold him to that? He clearly writes in his own time, and it's pointless to whine about it. And you're not "lazy" if you don't want to "bust your ass", and want to enjoy other things.

Also, this series is not his only project. Sure, it's the one everyone else cares about the most (and maybe at all), but that doesn't mean he has to prioritize it over everything.

Of course I would like to have the book as soon as possible, but I also accept that it's ready when it's ready. Everyone has their own style of writing.

 

[Wh0 N0se]

Can you imagine if he rushed it to get it out on time, it'd be terrible, you only have to look at a few video games out there to understand why it's a good policy to want to make it as good as it can possibly be.

I'd wait an extra year for it if it meant that the book would be better. You do have to balance it out though, you should definitely make it the best it can be but you should still be aiming to get it out as soon as you can.

 

[LegendofJoe]

He doesn't want to compromise and doesn't have to. Unfortunately this can create problems with bloat and lack of initiative. Many of the best creative works in history were made with strict parameters and deadlines. It's a different beast than sharing creative oversight.

He has no oversight as it stands now, his editor is basically a yes woman. She did a horrible job with the last two books. He really needs someone that can motivate him to get focused and provide him with some constructive criticism. His editor provides him with neither.

 

[Violater]

103 books confirmed

Me trying to come up with a positive response.

 

[badcrumble]

Would Littlefinger benefit from questioning Tommen's legitimacy? If it was revealed that Tommen wasn't really Robert's son, then Stannis would be the indisputable heir to the throne. Stannis would never want to ally himself with Littlefinger, and Littlefinger would immediately earn the enmity of the Lannisters and Tyrells. It seems too direct for him.

Also I don't think Robert would keep a lot of Targaryen tapestries around if he hated them.

Littlefinger already has all he needs to pull the rug out from under the Boltons (remember, he was the one who set them up with fake-Sansa, plus he has the real one).

All that's required to send the Lannisters, Tyrells, and Martells to war with each other is to assassinate Tommen, the single thread holding things together in the South. Three Queens = Cersei, Margaery, and Myrcella, now that Doran Martell's plan for his son has gone up in smoke. Enough of a distraction for Littlefinger to secure the North. Don't forget, also, that he set up the finances of the kingdom to collapse after he left, so they'll have the Iron Bank coming after them too.

 

[Wh0 N0se]

Littlefinger already has all he needs to pull the rug out from under the Boltons (remember, he was the one who set them up with fake-Sansa, plus he has the real one).

All that's required to send the Lannisters, Tyrells, and Martells to war with each other is to assassinate Tommen, the single thread holding things together in the South. Three Queens = Cersei, Margaery, and Myrcella, now that Doran Martell's plan for his son has gone up in smoke. Enough of a distraction for Littlefinger to secure the North. Don't forget, also, that he set up the finances of the kingdom to collapse after he left, so they'll have the Iron Bank coming after them too.

How can you not admire the man!! Haha. Normally I'd say that he's going to end up dead because everything is going too well for him, but I think that the really clever ones always seem to survive in GRRM's world.

 

[Dragon]

Can you imagine if he rushed it to get it out on time, it'd be terrible, you only have to look at a few video games out there to understand why it's a good policy to want to make it as good as it can possibly be.

I'd wait an extra year for it if it meant that the book would be better. You do have to balance it out though, you should definitely make it the best it can be but you should still be aiming to get it out as soon as you can.

I also wouldn't want a Wheel of Time thing where another author has to take over to finish the series.

 

[Diablos54]

Considering that he originally (when the series was a trilogy) wanted the first book to begin where AGOT did and encompass most of ASOS (including the Red Wedding), I think it's relatively safe to say that he'd look at it as AGOT, ACOK, ASOS -> AFFC, ADWD -> TWOW, ADOS

I think this is a very good way of seeing things. It also explains why AFFC/ADWD feels so slow compared to ASOS, he's got to put everything into place for the last 2 (3?) books, which should be one hell of a ride.

 

[Rodney McKay]

I also wouldn't want a Wheel of Time thing where another author has to take over to finish the series.

I've been re-reading the Dune series and the decrease in writing quality from Frank Herbert in Chapterhouse of Dune to Brian Herbert's Hunters of Dune is shocking. Like jumping from a college reading level to a middle school reading level. *BARF*

 

[lingiii]

- Zap2It: George R.R. Martin on his new HBO drama, 'The Winds of Winter' and the Red Wedding

I like his bit in here about not wanting to write the Red Wedding episode, sounds like it actually wracked him to do it.

can just imagine dude sitting down to write a thing he knows he has to do but he's disgusted by himself for setting it up that way.

 

[Aiii]

Ah well GRRM is only gonna be 74 ten years from now. He should be fine to finish the series unless he gets some kind of disease, which hopefully won't happen.

I would agree it would suck if George never got to complete it though, this is the single best series I've ever read and I want to read the end to it as GRRM intends it.

 

[Hindle]

I respect the guy, but he's incompetent if book 6 takes another 6 years. Hes untangled the knot, he has an obvious way to get Dany the ships she needs to get across the sea aswell.

 

[Reyne]

He doesn't want to compromise and doesn't have to. Unfortunately this can create problems with bloat and lack of initiative. Many of the best creative works in history were made with strict parameters and deadlines. It's a different beast than sharing creative oversight.

I don't disagree with this sentiment in itself, since has been true for many writers. I don't think, however, it has ever been strictly true for Martin. For instance, lets take a look at this quote from an interview after Dance:

Why did it take so long for you to finish this book?
There’s no doubt that these last two books have both taken longer than the ones before that. I’ve never been a fast writer. If you look at the very first book, nobody was waiting for that, “A Game of Thrones,” but that was a book I began in 1991, and finished in late 1994….The books are very complicated and complex and I spend a lot of time trying to get that right. In my view, it’s more important to get that right than to get it out on time.

Obviously Martin ain't getting any younger, so that might also be affecting how fast he can get the books out. More importantly though, he has multiple projects he is working on, beside ASOIF. He is also more popular than ever, with people calling for him to come to events and book-signing tours and such which also hampers how fast he can get those books out. Of course, ideally for us fans Martin should just ignore all these calls from the outside world and stay in Sant Fe and write those books. Of course, it is never that simple.
When you consider all that, I think the speed at which he gets those books out, as well as the 'parameters and deadlines' put on him all weighs up, sort of.
Then as now, Martin has always been that guy who says it'll be done when it is done. And for better and worse, Martin seem to be a little all over the place these days, places he wouldn't have gone to at all had his books not been a success.

 

[Cornballer]

gutshot linked another interview with GRRM from last night's red carpet if anyone wants to check it out:

- George R.R. Martin Reveals "Winds of Winter" Plans and Talks "Game of Thrones" (youtube, 7+ minutes)

EDIT: Video is set to private now. :/
EDIT2: Vid fixed now.

 

[Wh0 N0se]

gutshot linked another interview with GRRM from last night's red carpet if anyone wants to check it out:

- George R.R. Martin Reveals "Winds of Winter" Plans and Talks "Game of Thrones" (youtube, 7+ minutes)

It's listed as private for me.

 

[Cornballer]

It's listed as private for me.

Weird. It was up for me. Looks like they took it down.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Dammit

Was expecting an 8th at least....

"I don't write anything in blood" - By that he means there's small chance of writing the 8th book?

Unless we get a lot of dropped plotlines, I think an 8th book is pretty much a given. Martin is obviously going to try to finish the series in 7 books, but with where things are at the end of Dance, I can't see anyway to finish the series with just two more books without it being a complete rush job.

 

[Rodney McKay]

It certainly doesn't help that the sequel novels don't make much sense. How many deus ex machinae does the last book have ? 3 ? 4 ? The books are poorly paced, contradict the original books, introduce bullshit elements/deus ex machinae that make no sense and have characters behave completely differently and irrationally.

Fucking Frank Herbert. Should've just left a note saying "To my son Brian: Please don't write Dune books."

No joke. When I was younger I liked his prequel books and the sequels just because they were AWESOME full of SEX and ACTION! But now actually being able to appreciate the originals it is painfully obvious how poor a writer he is compared to his father. Every chapter seems to restate something that was already addressed in previous books or even earlier in the same book.

The only way I can appreciate them AT ALL is just in how it PROBABLY follows the bare minimum of what Frank Herbert originally wanted. Basically just who The Enemy is, how that story is resolved, and where the Honored Matres came from. Everything else is just fluff or call backs to his own crappy extended universe fiction. Oracle of Time? GTFO.

I would HATE for that to happen to Game of Thrones (and hope it doesn't happen with Terry Pratchett's daughter after he passes away).

 

[Cornballer]

gutshot linked another interview with GRRM from last night's red carpet if anyone wants to check it out:

- George R.R. Martin Reveals "Winds of Winter" Plans and Talks "Game of Thrones" (youtube, 7+ minutes)

EDIT: Video is set to private now. :/

It's up now.

 

[pulga]

It's up now.

If you find it so hard to get back into writing after being away at a convention or something such...THEN STOP GETTING DISTRACTED FFS ;_; ;_;

 

[bengraven]

103 books confirmed

 

[PhoenixDark]

I'm not worried at all. AFFC/ADWD weren't late because George was "lazy," he literally scrapped an entire book's worth of material due to the 5 year gap issue. Then he spent a couple years wrestling with the Mereenese Knot issue. With both of those problems in the past now I'm confident the next book will take three years at the most, meaning a 2014 or 2015 release (depending on when he started seriously writing). I think he realizes the show might catch him and it will motivate him. We're already seeing him turn down many speaking gigs/conventions for 2013 and 2014.

If 2014=3Q (around September for maximum capitalization on holidays)
If 2015=2Q (similar plan to ADWD: release after the end of the current season, June or July)

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I'm holding out hope for a 2014 release. I think he can do it now that he has the Mereenese knot solved. If it takes until 2015, I'm alright with that too. I'd rather have a great book than a jumbled mess of one.

 

[Basileus777]

I'm holding out hope for a 2014 release. I think he can do it now that he has the Mereenese knot solved. If it takes until 2015, I'm alright with that too. I'd rather have a great book than a jumbled mess of one.

Waiting longer doesn't mean it will be less of a jumbled mess. See ADWD. There's no correlation between quality and time spent writing. And you are just setting yourself up for disappointment with that unrealistic timeline.

 

[Ape Gone Insane]

I honestly don't mind how long it takes. Really. It's really enjoyable to have a wait where speculation, theories and anticipation can flourish.

What I do mind is if the next few books are shit, if the way all the plots tie together is shit, if the final parts are shit and the legacy left behind is bittersweet because the series had a fantastic beginning then long wait followed by an underwhelming and wholly disappointing ending. I want to believe that investment of our time into the series will pay off.

Maybe Lost and the Wheel of Time have made me overly cynical.

 

[Monocle]

I don't disagree with this sentiment in itself, since has been true for many writers. I don't think, however, it has ever been strictly true for Martin. For instance, lets take a look at this quote from an interview after Dance:

Obviously Martin ain't getting any younger, so that might also be affecting how fast he can get the books out. More importantly though, he has multiple projects he is working on, beside ASOIF. He is also more popular than ever, with people calling for him to come to events and book-signing tours and such which also hampers how fast he can get those books out. Of course, ideally for us fans Martin should just ignore all these calls from the outside world and stay in Sant Fe and write those books. Of course, it is never that simple.
When you consider all that, I think the speed at which he gets those books out, as well as the 'parameters and deadlines' put on him all weighs up, sort of.
Then as now, Martin has always been that guy who says it'll be done when it is done. And for better and worse, Martin seem to be a little all over the place these days, places he wouldn't have gone to at all had his books not been a success.

Honestly, how hard would it be for him to tell everybody to piss off for a year so he can get his damn book done? GRRM seems like a great guy, but he acts so undisciplined. It's hard to believe his creative process truly depends on spreading himself so thin with all of those engagements and side projects. Everyone would be better off if he'd put the superfluous stuff on hold. Maybe use it as motivation to finish the current volume and then indulge himself for a while before picking up the next one. I bet he could pump out a new book every 2 1/2 years if he really wanted to.

 

[Basileus777]

He probably needs the side projects just to keep himself motivated and prevent complete burn-out. He probably hates writing these books at this point. He did call "ADWD a bitch to write" in the forward.

 

[Forsaken82]

Unless we get a lot of dropped plotlines, I think an 8th book is pretty much a given. Martin is obviously going to try to finish the series in 7 books, but with where things are at the end of Dance, I can't see anyway to finish the series with just two more books without it being a complete rush job.

I find it hard to believe Martin would feel rushed to properly close all the major story beats within the confines of at least 2000 pages. (assuming at least 1000 for the next to books)