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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**

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bengraven

Member

Wh0 N0se

Member
I was going to make this list, though I was going to call it Something-Something Loose Ends.

There are a LOT of loose ends. We gotta close at least 1/4 of them next book.

A lot of them will be resolved in singular events such as the Battle of Winterfell etc

I expect at least half of them to be definitely resolved by the end.
 

Aiii

So not worth it
Not every one of those needs to be resolved in the book as far as I'm concerned.

Some could be resolved in lore books/other sources and some could just be resolved via GRRM interviews/panels/whatevers.
 

Wh0 N0se

Member
Not every one of those needs to be resolved in the book as far as I'm concerned.

Some could be resolved in lore books/other sources and some could just be resolved via GRRM interviews/panels/whatevers.

Yeah, I imagine the World of Ice and Fire book is going to have a lot of awesome material.
 

bengraven

Member
My theory:

George writes really dense prose with tons of "easter eggs" for either sharp readers or people in the community think tank.

I think a lot of these issues won't be "resolved" in the obvious text, but we'll realize it later on, either through friends or during a re-read.

"Oh, that huge bitch dog that the priest takes in...that's Nymeria...and the priest, well we know that's the Hound..." "Oh my god, y'all, you're right" "dude, good catch, let me blow you in a very homo-erotic way".
 

Eidan

Member
I don't know, there are a lot of huge things to start tidying up ASAP in the story, but some of those items on that page are just not necessary to explain or don't actually exist as questions. Like. what kind of answers is everyone going to really NEED concerning the Gods, seasons, & Magic of the story in order to feel satisfied? It's highly subjective, I bet...

And what's so mysterious and unresolved about the actual ASOIAF Title? The words represent balance, a dichotomy (among many other things), and the ice and fire is persistent theme and motif, one the series wears it on its sleeve. It's ongoing and endlessly applicable. Dragons/White Walkers, North/South, old gods and new, etc...

I hear you. Lost faced the same kind of anal lists. A lot of the things were stuff that required no explanation, or were things the audience could deduce with common sense. I expect by series end there will be several things that aren't necessarily resolved, but it won't matter in the long run.
 

Wh0 N0se

Member
My theory:

George writes really dense prose with tons of "easter eggs" for either sharp readers or people in the community think tank.

I think a lot of these issues won't be "resolved" in the obvious text, but we'll realize it later on, either through friends or during a re-read.

"Oh, that huge bitch dog that the priest takes in...that's Nymeria...and the priest, well we know that's the Hound..." "Oh my god, y'all, you're right" "dude, good catch, let me blow you in a very homo-erotic way".

Haha, that's exactly what's going to happen!

I hear you. Lost faced the same kind of anal lists. A lot of the things were stuff that required no explanation, or were things the audience could deduce with common sense. I expect by series end there will be several things that aren't necessarily resolved, but it won't matter in the long run.

Am I right in saying that GRRM had an argument with Damon Lindelof about the ending of Lost? Didn't he say he didn't want his series to end up like that? I think he wants to resolve a lot of the plot lines that are still unresolved.
 

Eidan

Member
Am I right in saying that GRRM had an argument with Damon Lindelof about the ending of Lost? Didn't he say he didn't want his series to end up like that? I think he wants to resolve a lot of the plot lines that are still unresolved.

You are correct. I'm just saying I don't think it's going to happen.
 

bengraven

Member
This would be awesome, actually.

I wrote it as a joke, but it does kind of make sense if they're connected somehow.

I'm still convinced Benjen fucked off for some wildling bird...

The hell am I reading.
Lol
Then who is Coldhands?

I think Dance basically ruins the Coldhands/Benjen thing. I believe it says Coldhands is a "very old creature" or something like that.

I actually have a bizarre theory about that, but I won't say it here.



Oh yes I will.

He's Bran the Builder. His hands are cold from building the wall - from magic no doubt or something similar...a curse maybe. No punchline, I actually could see it happening somehow.
 

Fiftyeight

Neo Member
I wrote it as a joke, but it does kind of make sense if they're connected somehow.

I'm still convinced Benjen fucked off for some wildling bird...



I think Dance basically ruins the Coldhands/Benjen thing. I believe it says Coldhands is a "very old creature" or something like that.

Mance already pulled the whole identity switcharoo once, and we already know the Starks possess some supernatural prowess. Benjen may have believed in uniting the free folk with the Seven Kingdoms and set out to achieve it. It's a great possibility he either killed the real Mance and has been under his guise, or he's working together with the wildlings for a greater cause.

Then again, that still doesn't excuse the wildings' war on the Wall. Benjen wouldn't do that. My next best guess is he'll be found around Hardhome.
 

Wh0 N0se

Member
That's interesting, I haven't heard anyone post that before and it makes sense to me. People mostly guess that he's either Benjen or the Night's King.
 

Fiftyeight

Neo Member
Mance only changed appearance with the help of Melisandre.

Perhaps Melisandre's plan was to contribute in the North all along?

I don't know -- I'm grasping at straws here. Melisandre rides with Stannis to the Wall because she knows Jon is the true Azor Ahai; helps Mance because he's actually Benjen Stark; some ulterior motive for her that's beneficial; blah blah, her pendant glows.
 

Got to figure that a lot of that doesn't have to be explicitly resolved. Some of the things on that list are kind of things that would be nice to get more info on, but not necessary. Like, it would be neat to know more about Coldhands, but is it necessary? Some things can remain mysterious.

And given Tree Bran's powers, I'm guessing we could get some quick and dirty answers to a lot of things that way, if need be.
 
Got to figure that a lot of that doesn't have to be explicitly resolved. Some of the things on that list are kind of things that would be nice to get more info on, but not necessary. Like, it would be neat to know more about Coldhands, but is it necessary? Some things can remain mysterious.

And given Tree Bran's powers, I'm guessing we could get some quick and dirty answers to a lot of things that way, if need be.

Well, that's a bummer

I've always wanted to know why, who and what caused the Doom of Valyria

T_T
 
If he moves at the same pace as ADWD, then I definitely do not see the series ending with two more books.

I doubt it will continue at the same pace, and further, a lot of these will be resolved off-camera or very quickly.

It's not really that daunting at all, IMHO. I'm sure a decent number will be left open, but some of those are pretty minor.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Perhaps Melisandre's plan was to contribute in the North all along?

I don't know -- I'm grasping at straws here. Melisandre rides with Stannis to the Wall because she knows Jon is the true Azor Ahai; helps Mance because he's actually Benjen Stark; some ulterior motive for her that's beneficial; blah blah, her pendant glows.

Melisandre doesn't know shit. Her POV was basically showing how she was asking to see her Azor Ahai and all she was seeing was Jon Snow, and she didn't know why, she instead was asking why The Lord of Light wouldn't show her Stannis.
 
Well, that's a bummer

I've always wanted to know why, who and what caused the Doom of Valyria

T_T

Yeah... I guess I'm just cautious in wanting answers to everything after how terrible Mass Effect 3's ending was. GRRM does not equate to BioWare in the slightest, but I have a new appreciation for sometimes leaving things open ended, especially if the answer maybe isn't as cool as you had hoped.

Yes, the Doom of Valyria would be cool to know more about. I guess Martin could give hypothetical answers to some of these sorts of unanswered questions or mysteries. Maybe have certain characters hypothesize possible answers and the reader can piece them together from the various POVs while never being explicit with a solid answer. At least that might work for certain things that aren't necessarily central to the plot.
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Perhaps Melisandre's plan was to contribute in the North all along?

I don't know -- I'm grasping at straws here. Melisandre rides with Stannis to the Wall because she knows Jon is the true Azor Ahai; helps Mance because he's actually Benjen Stark; some ulterior motive for her that's beneficial; blah blah, her pendant glows.

Melisandre's plan is to try and stop the great other. But considering she thinks Bloodraven is a Champion of the Great Other, ether she is really crummy at her job, or Bran is being conned.
 
Hey, I have a question. I'm not as well read on the little things but I know the theory about Jon Snow being a Targareyen, but I was thinking...what if he isn't Ned's son at all?

Do we know why Benjen is a part of the Nights Watch? Was thinking that Ned would never cheat right? He's too honorable. So what if Benjen fathered a son while a member of the Night's Watch, and Ned agreed to tell everyone it was his (even his wife) in order to protect Benjen's life?

Opinions? Is it just a stupid theory that can be easily shot down?

:)
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
While that could be true, there isn't much evidence of it. In fact, we know crap about Benjen. There is a good argument that Jon is Lyanna's kid though.
 

Baraka in the White House

2-Terms of Kombat
Hey, I have a question. I'm not as well read on the little things but I know the theory about Jon Snow being a Targareyen, but I was thinking...what if he isn't Ned's son at all?

Do we know why Benjen is a part of the Nights Watch? Was thinking that Ned would never cheat right? He's too honorable. So what if Benjen fathered a son while a member of the Night's Watch, and Ned agreed to tell everyone it was his (even his wife) in order to protect Benjen's life?

Opinions? Is it just a stupid theory that can be easily shot down?

:)

I think the prevailing theory is that Jon is Rhaegar's son by Lyanna and that he took her to King's Landing to keep her safe. Shortly before dying she made Ned promise to raise Jon as his own and keep the secret of his real father away from Robert.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Hey, I have a question. I'm not as well read on the little things but I know the theory about Jon Snow being a Targareyen, but I was thinking...what if he isn't Ned's son at all?

Do we know why Benjen is a part of the Nights Watch? Was thinking that Ned would never cheat right? He's too honorable. So what if Benjen fathered a son while a member of the Night's Watch, and Ned agreed to tell everyone it was his (even his wife) in order to protect Benjen's life?

Opinions? Is it just a stupid theory that can be easily shot down?

:)

Benjen was the Stark in Winterfell during the rebellion. It would take a ridiculous amount of preplanning to get him in contact with Ned, have him take a bastard that was born nearby (that apparently no one knows about), and have him be brought to Winterfell with Ned. That is even taking out the possibility of Jon being nursed at Starfall.
 

TCRS

Banned
oh oh, people in the show thread got spoiled by a Richard Madden interview. Something about the biggest departure from the books apparently (I can't watch the video). It should have been marked as containing spoilers.
 

John Dunbar

correct about everything
oh oh, people in the show thread got spoiled by a Richard Madden interview. Something about the biggest departure from the books apparently (I can't watch the video). It should have been marked as containing spoilers.

that's not really a spoiler. even if you have read the books, you can't know what the departure will be. And if you haven't read the books, and won't look it up, you will never know.

also, in the interview he talked about picking stuff from different books for the season, so it could be something as simple as showing what happens to theon.
 
Well, that's a bummer

I've always wanted to know why, who and what caused the Doom of Valyria

T_T

I just assumed the Doom was a bunch of volcanic eruptions on the Valyrian peninsula, which in turn killed all life there. Over the years, it became an almost mythological event that people still talk about. Is there really more to it than that? Honest question.
 
I just assumed the Doom was a bunch of volcanic eruptions on the Valyrian peninsula, which in turn killed all life there. Over the years, it became an almost mythological event that people still talk about. Is there really more to it than that? Honest question.

I assumed it had something to do with the magic that brought forth dragons and Valerian steel. Like, volcanoes that were man-made accidents.
 

bengraven

Member
Isn't it mentioned somewhere that they mined directly into the volcanoes and that there were fire wyrms of some sort within the magma? That slaves were regularly cooked and disfigured by the fire?
 

bengraven

Member
Anyone think The Many Faced God and the being who controls The Others is the same thing?

I don't know if we'll ever know that, since GRRM seems focused on making sure:

1) we don't know too much about the gods
2) we are kept in the dark about whether they are real or not

I think it likes keeping them out of the way so as to create discussion.

I just assumed the Doom was a bunch of volcanic eruptions on the Valyrian peninsula, which in turn killed all life there. Over the years, it became an almost mythological event that people still talk about. Is there really more to it than that? Honest question.


While aboard the Iron Victory, near the Isle of Cedars, Victarion Greyjoy recalls that recalls that it was written that on the day of Doom every hill for five miles had split asunder to fill the air with ash and smoke and fire, blazes so hot and hungry that even dragons in the sky were engulfed and consumed.[1]

Great rents had opened in the earth, swallowing palaces, temples, entire towns. Lakes boiled or turned to acid, mountains burst, fiery fountains spewed molten rock a thousand feet into the air, red clouds rained down dragonglass and the black blood of demons, and to the north the ground splintered and collapsed and fell in on itself and an angry sea came rushing in.

The proudest city in all the world was gone in an instant, its fabled empire vanished in a day, the Lands of the Long Summer scorched and drowned and blighted.

It is said a wall of water 300 feet high descended on Velos drowning hundreds of thousands of man, women, and children, leaving none to tell the tale but some fisherfolk who had been at sea and a handful of Velosi spearmen posted in a stout stone tower on the island’s highest hill, who had seen the hills and valleys beneath them turn into a raging sea.

Fair Velos with its places of cedar and pink marble had vanished in a heartbeat. On the north end of the island, the ancient brick walls and steeped pyramids of the slaver port of Ghozai had suffered the same fate.
 
That description could be hyperbole/exaggerated myth, but it sounds like more than a volcanic eruption, but rather dozens of them at once. I blame magic.
 

Ave22

Member

Chris R

Member
What is this hanging thread referring to?

Robb sent two men north with his proclamation shortly before his murder. Jon is though to have been legitimized in said proclamation and made heir as he was the only living "Stark" male at the time as far as Robb knew.
 

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
What is this hanging thread referring to?

Robb named someone, presumably Jon, as his heir before he died, and sent two messengers to Howland Reed with this information. The 13 years thing is referring to how long the readers have been waiting to see resolution of that.
 

Eidan

Member
One of the more depressing snippets from that list is the idea that people have been waiting for Howland Reed to shed some light on the story since the Clinton administration. Christ.
 

Dysun

Member
I really doubt it wasn't Jon, there's no reason for Robb to side with his mother who always disliked Jon over someone who has no blood relation
 
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