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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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lol I read that part during an hectic bus ride (everything was late that day, crazy snow, 'tis a long winter), I totally forgot about that dialogue.
Jibbajabbawockky
Member
The whole Tree Bran thing sucks for him, but kind of makes sense for the series. You want super magical powers to see through time and warg anything? Fine, have them but now you're stuck in one spot as a tree person. Its like all magic in the series- there is some cost to it. I guess the shitty thing is that Bran hasn't had time to really live his life before becoming a tree, unlike Bloodraven.
"You remember all that whining you did about losing your leg movement? Well, you're a tree now."
Just another Stark getting Stark'ed.
toddhunter
Member
Thanks for playing
The issue now will be not making his use of the power consistent and not too overpowered. He basically has an excuse now at any time for Bran to discover or reveal plot points or intervene in what is going on or just let it happen.
You also left out that he was probably speaking to/calling out to Jon, through time, in ASOS. This was mindblowing to me on a re-read.
It seemed to me, while reading the Bran-tree chapters, that Bran didn't really like being there. So I think he'll want to leave. Although that's pretty difficult being miles beyond the wall with wights all around the entrance of the cave...
Maybe he'll warg a dragon to burn all the wights and fly it to get back south. I would like to see that.
Maybe he'll warg a dragon to burn all the wights and fly it to get back south. I would like to see that.
It seems like Daenerys has control of one of the dragons. We know Victarion has a horn which can control another dragon. That leaves room for someone extremely powerful to warg into the third dragon. Right now that's a toss up between Jon Snow and Bran as the two with the strongest ability to warg. Could go either way.
It should be noted that there has been Ice and Water Dragons reported in different stories. Old Nan tells of tales of Ice Dragons in the North, and they Greyjoy's original ancestor slayed a Water Dragon (Or at least a Dragon that lived at sea). Also, the Horn burned with fake Mance was likely a the same Horn Crow's Eye had, so I think there is a good chance of Ice Dragons showing up in the story.
goddamnit I hope GRR mounts a tree on a dragon's back.
also: wassup with Aegon's sister? I don't remember her being resolved? was she actually killed by the Mountain?
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
I believe it was Armory Lorch who killed her, with the Mountain killing Elia and Aegon. She was older, and her body was easily recognizable, unlike Aegon with the skull smashed in.
And years ago, when Martin was asked if Rhaegar's kids were really killed or not, his response was something like "All I'll say is that there's no doubt that Rhaenys was killed".
Rhaenys was older, so it might have been harder to trick people. Two babies will look alike, but Tywin would have noticed if the girl was different.
Finally finished reading ADwD. After the whole "tell half the stories for all the characters, or tell all the story for half the characters" I'm not really sure why GRRM decided to land on "Tell half the story for half the characters.. and then the other half of the characters." Didn't see the need for a number of chapters to end up in ADwD that could have been in AFfC. Hitting the end of ADwD, I was shocked that was it, and a bit miffed that there wasn't another GRRM afterword to explain wtf he was thinking.
Aegon is probably fake. Idk, it's very Martin-esque to make this boy and his ward completely believe that he is the rightful heir, devote their lives to it, and then turn out to be fake. And being burned alive in the process or something.
I still believe Tyrion is actually a Targaryen. Don't know if it's been discussed in this topic (new to GAF), but especially in ADWD I feel Martin has been setting this up. I've seen (or imagined) several hints throughout the book. Like his immunity to greyscale (Targs don't get sick), Aegon's affair at court (with Tyrion's mom) and the subsequent break with Tywin (speculation). And other things that would fit nicely.
toddhunter
Member
Had not really considered that. It would set up a nice scene where the dragons burn him but he is unharmed (for yet another fake death). But I don't really see it adding a lot besides him perhaps becoming a dragon trainer.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Of course he does. He was the one who came up with the idea of faking the corpses, after all. He just sometimes deliberately forgets during certain conversations. Him boasting about how he killed Bran and Rickon was clearly him just being obnoxious, rather than him actually thinking that.
It's also pretty clear that Roose knows the truth. When he and Ramsay talk, he wonders how the northern lords would react if one of Ned Stark's sons would turn up. Ramsay claims that he would just kill them again, and then Roose gets annoyed and reminds him that it was Theon who killed them and sacked Winterfell.
I've heard the "Tyrion is a Targaryen" theory but am not a massive fan of it. I don't believe it's not possible, but I hope GRRM doesn't go that route. One of the things that makes Tyrion appealing to me is that he's born into a family almost completely unlike him, and who (for the most part) detest him, and he's often wrongly judged just for bearing his name (and because he's a dwarf). He doesn't belong with the Lannisters, but I would like to think it's because he was born into the "wrong family" rather than because he literally isn't a Lannister.
I'd argue that although Jon seems legitimately likely to be a surprise Targ, Aegon screams fake and there's certainly room for a third(of Targ descent), especially considering how much surrounding the dragons seem to come in 3s.
This is probably widely known among people in this thread anyways, but this thread covers the arguments for/against Tywin as a Targ(as well as a few others) pretty nicely.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Targaryens aren't immune to disease. That was just some bullshit that Viserys made up and Dany repeated because she didn't know better. There are even cases of Targaryens who died due to sickness.
The timing of the Aerys/Joanna stuff would fit better for thinking that Jaime and Cersei are Targaryens than Tyrion.
toddhunter
Member
Not to mention Aemon "He is part of the nights watch so we all forgot about him and just kind of leave him alone and go for more threatening unborn babies" Targaryen
Well Aemon double couldn't be King, he was both part of the Nights Watch and a Maester! Plus, he didn't want to do it, and was like 90 at the time Robert took the Throne.
Especially because people keep making the point that Tyrion is the 'true' heir of Tywin. Unlike Jamie and Cersei he inherited the mental capabilities of their father. By the way, if Jamie and Cersei were children of Joanna and Aegon, wouldn't that make Tommen the rightful king all along?
PhoenixDark
Banned
Tyrion isn't a Targ IMO, I just can't buy that theory. Multiple character have pointed out he inherited Tywin's intelligence and I have a feeling Ttwin would know if the child wasn't his; if his wife was raped by the king, wouldn't he be smart enough to ensure she drank some moon tea to avoid any shame on his house (or another potential Blackfyre type situation)?
I do believe Aegon is a fraud though, the hints litter the last two books. He's likely Illyrio's son; his wife's description resembles the Blackfyre line. And considering Varys and Serra were both from Lys I wouldn't be surprised if they were siblings; perhaps that explains the bond he has with Illyrio.
I do believe Aegon is a fraud though, the hints litter the last two books. He's likely Illyrio's son; his wife's description resembles the Blackfyre line. And considering Varys and Serra were both from Lys I wouldn't be surprised if they were siblings; perhaps that explains the bond he has with Illyrio.
Tywin may have suspected and been unable to prove it(he mentions several times throughout the series that Tyrion isn't his son or that he isn't sure he is) or if he had attempted to force a miscarriage, it could possibly explain Tyrion's deformities.
Either way, I sort of hope that GRRM keeps it intentionally vague. I like that there are seeds planted, but I think the ambiguity is enough here, especially if Tyrion ends up on the wings of a dragon anyways.
Ape Gone Insane
Member
So many closet Targaryens.
Seems like a grand idea. "Hey, we just finished this war, lets go to war with our own Nights Watch so we can get this last near-blind, non-fertile, non-threatening Targaryen out of the way!"
"I'm sure my best friend won't mind us attacking the only force that is protecting his people from two really dangerous groups of enemies."
toddhunter
Member
Just hire an assassin and boom problem solved. You either want every last Targaryen dead or you don't.
I wouldn't be keeping the one with all that knowledge around.
Are you sure? Do you have an example for the Targaryens who got sick?
I have to admit I don't have the timeline crystal clear in my head, is it actually impossible? For instance if Tywin already returned to Casterly Rock or something?
And somebody mentioned that Tyrion inherited Tywins mind, it could just be Targaryen greatness (that skipped a generation), combined with Tyrion picking up on some of Tywin's knowledge. It doesn't really debunk the theory.
Basileus777
Member
The Great Spring Sickness (a plague) wiped out a bunch of Targs, including the King and his two heirs. It's described in the Sworn Sword.
And what do you expect a Lord Commander like Jeor Mormont to do when they assassinate his trusted confidant?
toddhunter
Member
Assume he died of old age or whatever else the assassin made it look like. He is surrounded by thieves, murderers and rapists remember. I'm sure shit goes down there all the time.
Interview with GRRM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...in.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Nothing new in there really. He earned $15 mio last year, not bad.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...in.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Nothing new in there really. He earned $15 mio last year, not bad.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Does he ever take that hat off?
The babies *were* more threatening to Robert's rule than an old man in the Nights Watch; their claims were still valid while those who join the Nights Watch give up their inheritance rights.
Basileus777
Member
Aemon was offered a chance to be released from his vows in the past, he was only a non-threat because he was old and blind.
Edit: I misremembered that, he was still just a maester when that happened.
Oh yes, the scape from Winterfell was the best of all, I was so excited of what was happening, that was magical, I had a smile on my face the whole chapter
Summary Man
Member
Martin should write the last book now, so if anything bad happens to him we'll have the ending anyway. Throw it in a safe until needed.
Iirc he's already told the TV writers how it's supposed to end
PhoenixDark
Banned
I wish someone would ask Benioff and Weiss if it kind of sucks to know the ending. I'd hate to learn that info two books in advance. I would have just asked for like the most vague synopsis possible.
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