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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**

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It's possible there will be eight books but I don't think the characters are that spread out and most are currently converging on a few key points. Winterfell (most of the north), King's Landing (Aegon, Dorne), and Mereen (Dany, Tyrion, Victarion). After the battle of Winterfell and its aftermath the wall and Winterfell threads will converge. After the battle of Mereen and Dany's return King's Landing and Mereen should converge (this could take a while). The the north and south converge to finish dealing with the Others.

The only thing that worries me is the battle of Winterfell and Mereen being pushed back to book 6.
Poor editing decision IMO. I understand why the Winterfell battle was removed (slow moving plot due to winter, and it's not clear what POV will witness it since Theon will presumably be locked up or dead) but the Mereen battle should have been in ADWD. Space could have been made for the five or so chapters that deal with the beginning of the battle: Tyrion, Victarion, two Barriston chapters, and one more for a cliff hanger. The cliff hanger should have been the dragon horn being blown, and someone (perhaps Tyrion) seeing fire engulf the sky; then the epilogue.

I'm assuming such a large battle won't be completed in a single day, so it'll last through the beginning of TWOW. Dany has to return to Mereen after all, and who knows how long that will take; especially if she goes back to the crones and unifies the Dothraki. By the time she gets back to Mereen the battle could be over, or her dragon and the Dothraki could lift the siege.

Either way, the first half of TWOW will be packed with action.
 
Sign me up for the Doran Martell fan club. I can't wait to get his reaction to not just Quentyn's death, but how poorly he was treated by Dany; she basically friend zoned him to the highest degree. Dorne wanted blood after the Red Viper's death, I can't help but think the city will turn against Dany and Doran will attempt to be diplomatic but fail. Meanwhile Arianne...

TWOW spoiler
she sounds very hostile towards Dany, and that chapter just so happens to include information on a book detailing how to combat/kill dragons. I get the impression she's going to be very pissed when she hears about her brother, and might attempt to turn Aegon against his aunt.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The best troll of all is going to be Howland Reed dying offscreen without ever having appeared or having done anything.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Howland Reed will be the final epilogue. He'll die the moment his thoughts turn to the Tower of Joy.

Replace "Howland Reed" with "George R.R. Martin" and it would be the ultimate final troll.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";56760986]The sadder thing is that I can't actually remember who Howland Reed is offhand.

edit: oh wait the two kids dad, right?[/QUOTE]

He isn't a particularly important character beyond simply being the guy that presumably knows who Jon Snow's real parents are.
 

hemtae

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";56760986]The sadder thing is that I can't actually remember who Howland Reed is offhand.

edit: oh wait the two kids dad, right?[/QUOTE]

The two kids that are hanging out with Bran right now, Meera and Jojen, yes.

Howland was one of the people Ned Stark took with him to the Tower of Joy to rescue Lyanna.

I still think Benjen knows.
 

Levi

Banned
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";56760986]The sadder thing is that I can't actually remember who Howland Reed is offhand.

edit: oh wait the two kids dad, right?[/QUOTE]

He's the only living person who was at the Tower of Joy, the only person who can confirm R+L=J. Well, he was until Bran turned into a time-traveling tree. Presumably, Bran can spy on Ned confessing to a heart tree in detail, but Reed doing it makes more sense narratively.
 
Poor editing decision IMO.

I agree, but I've already gone into detail about what I would have changed.

All the preview chapters for The Winds of Winter sound amazing. The detailed description of Barristan's chapters on the Westeros forum is so good. I think the next two books will have more payoff than Storm of Swords.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Info that might not even be important thematically. Rhaegar was already married, which would make Jon...a bastard.

The Targaryens don't follow the rules though. Aegon the Conqueror was married to two chicks at the same time.
 

Levi

Banned
getting her "moon's blood" though I can't remember if she's had it since she became infertile...

That event reads much more like a miscarriage than menses. Which may mean she is fertile-- there is a crackpot theory that Mirri Max Duur's statement that “When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before.” was actually a prophecy and not Mirri simply taunting Dany. Details of the theory are here: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Prophecies/Entry/1799

I'm not sure I buy into it, but it is interesting to think about.
 

Reyne

Member
Info that might not even be important thematically. Rhaegar was already married, which would make Jon...a bastard.

Eh, the Targaryen traditionally did polygamy. I mean, they still married siblings during Aerys II, so Rhaegar could easily have done the former and married another, Targs being above laws of men and whats not.
 

Levi

Banned
Have they cast Daario in the show?

Yeah, Ed Skein plays Daario. Very minor episode title spoilers:
I assume he shows up in episode 8, titled Second Sons
.

tumblr_mjxvvrawvJ1r3k60go2_400.png
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Aegon had two wives. Maybe Rhaegar married Lyanna in secret too. xD

Sign me up for the Doran Martell fan club. I can't wait to get his reaction to not just Quentyn's death, but how poorly he was treated by Dany; she basically friend zoned him to the highest degree.
That's not really fair. She was already engaged to Hizdahr (sp?) when Quentyn arrived, maybe even married (I forgot, but definitely at least betrothed), what else was she supposed to do about Quentyn beside telling him a polite "sorry, not gonna work"?

Then Quentyn got stupid and tried to tame a dragon. It was his own damn fault, but yeah it's likely Arianne or Doran will blame Dany, since they weren't there to witness what happened and will get distorted second-hand info.

Have they cast Daario in the show?
Yes.

Wait a second, was the guy in the cave with bran referred to as the "3 eyed crow" in the books? I don't remember that nomenclature.
Yes.

How much farther? he would think, as the great elk splashed across a half-frozen stream. How much longer? It’s so cold. Where is the three-eyed crow?

[...]

“He said he’d go and deal with them,” said Bran.
“He said, aye. He said he would take us to this three-eyed crow too. That river we crossed this morning is the same one we crossed four days ago, I swear. We’re going in circles.”

[...]

“The ranger saved Sam and the girl from the wights,” Bran said, hesitantly, “and he’s taking me to the three-eyed crow.”
“Why won’t this three-eyed crow come to us? Why couldn’t he meet us at the Wall? Crows have wings. My brother grows weaker every day. How long can we go on?”
Jojen coughed. “Until we get there.”

[...]

Meera’s gloved hand tightened around the shaft of her frog spear. “Who sent you? Who is this three-eyed crow?”
“A friend. Dreamer, wizard, call him what you will. The last green-seer.” The longhall’s wooden door banged open. Outside, the night wind howled, bleak and black. The trees were full of ravens, screaming.

[...]

“The white walkers go lightly on the snow,” the ranger said. “You’ll find no prints to mark their passage.” A raven descended from above to settle on his shoulder. Only a dozen of the big black birds remained with them. The rest had vanished along the way; every dawn when they arose, there had been fewer of them. “Come,” the bird squawked. “Come, come.”
The three-eyed crow, thought Bran. The greenseer. “It’s not so far,” he said. “A little climb, and we’ll be safe. Maybe we can have a fire.” All of them were cold and wet and hungry, except the ranger, and Jojen Reed was too weak to walk unaided.

[...]

“Are you the three-eyed crow?” Bran heard himself say. A three-eyed crow should have three eyes. He has only one, and that one red. Bran could feel the eye staring at him, shining like a pool of blood in the torchlight. Where his other eye should have been, a thin white root grew from an empty socket, down his cheek, and into his neck.
“A … crow?” The pale lord’s voice was dry. His lips moved slowly, as if they had forgotten how to form words. “Once, aye. Black of garb and black of blood.” The clothes he wore were rotten and faded, spotted with moss and eaten through with worms, but once they had been black. “I have been many things, Bran. Now I am as you see me, and now you will understand why I could not come to you … except in dreams. I have watched you for a long time, watched you with a thousand eyes and one. I saw your birth, and that of your lord father before you. I saw your first step, heard your first word, was part of your first dream. I was watching when you fell. And now you are come to me at last, Brandon Stark, though the hour is late.”
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
That event reads much more like a miscarriage than menses. Which may mean she is fertile-- there is a crackpot theory that Mirri Max Duur's statement that “When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before.” was actually a prophecy and not Mirri simply taunting Dany. Details of the theory are here: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Prophecies/Entry/1799

I'm not sure I buy into it, but it is interesting to think about.

I don't believe it myself. If she miscarried, she might be fertile in the sense that she can conceive, but she still hasn't born a "living child". And then, if Dany does give birth to a living child... then what, Drogo will return to her? How does that make sense? Mirri Maz Duur's line was a curse or a taunt, not a prophecy. If it's a prophecy, it's one about Khal Drogo returning to Daenerys, and while I know the dead have come back occasionally in this series, does anyone really believe Drogo will return? I doubt it.

Eh, the Targaryen traditionally did polygamy.
Maybe pre-conquest, but no Targaryen has practiced it since Aegon I so I don't know about "traditionally". Still, there is precedent, and Rhaegar sure thought highly of himself enough to compare himself to Aegon the Conqueror, lol.
 

Levi

Banned
I don't believe it myself. If she miscarried, she might be fertile in the sense that she can conceive, but she still hasn't born a "living child". And then, if Dany does give birth to a living child... then what, Drogo will return to her? How does that make sense? Mirri Maz Duur's line was a curse or a taunt, not a prophecy. If it's a prophecy, it's one about Khal Drogo returning to Daenerys, and while I know the dead have come back occasionally in this series, does anyone really believe Drogo will return? I doubt it.

Dany's living womb bearing a son she names Drogo would be enough to fulfill the prophecy, at least according to theory proponents.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
LOL. I wish he had at least a beard (guys almost always look better with a beard), but I prefer no beard over a goofy blue forked one. The flamboyant Tyroshi look might work on paper but it'd look stupid on-screen, I think.
 
I'm not sure I buy into it, but it is interesting to think about.

I've seen more convoluted theories, and it does link together fairly well. The prophecy gets repeated a lot in Dany's POV chapters so maybe Martin means us to read more into it, but it could just be to make the reader sympathetic to her or whatever.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
That event reads much more like a miscarriage than menses. Which may mean she is fertile-- there is a crackpot theory that Mirri Max Duur's statement that “When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before.” was actually a prophecy and not Mirri simply taunting Dany. Details of the theory are here: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Prophecies/Entry/1799

I'm not sure I buy into it, but it is interesting to think about.

I'd really hope Martin isn't going to cash in on the "All Prophecies are True" thing.

I don't believe it myself. If she miscarried, she might be fertile in the sense that she can conceive, but she still hasn't born a "living child". And then, if Dany does give birth to a living child... then what, Drogo will return to her? How does that make sense? Mirri Maz Duur's line was a curse or a taunt, not a prophecy. If it's a prophecy, it's one about Khal Drogo returning to Daenerys, and while I know the dead have come back occasionally in this series, does anyone really believe Drogo will return? I doubt it.


Maybe pre-conquest, but no Targaryen has practiced it since Aegon I so I don't know about "traditionally". Still, there is precedent, and Rhaegar sure thought highly of himself enough to compare himself to Aegon the Conqueror, lol.

If Rhaegar intended to marry Lyanna and then have a kid, I have to imagine that it would almost assuredly be considered legitimate.
 

Reyne

Member
Maybe pre-conquest, but no Targaryen has practiced it since Aegon I so I don't know about "traditionally". Still, there is precedent, and Rhaegar sure thought highly of himself enough to compare himself to Aegon the Conqueror, lol.

smmIwM1.jpg


This guy allegedly put his father to shame in amounts of wives he kept. Still, I hear you. Maegor was probably one of the last to engage in polygamy ( though it is possible others did it ). When I say traditionally, meant to say that something the Valyrians did, just as with the sibling marriage. But when you think about it, for a family who marry their siblings left and right up until Aerys II, despite such thing still being viewed as abomination... I cannot imagine why they would care any more about the public opinion on polygamy.
 
That event reads much more like a miscarriage than menses. Which may mean she is fertile-- there is a crackpot theory that Mirri Max Duur's statement that “When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before.” was actually a prophecy and not Mirri simply taunting Dany. Details of the theory are here: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Prophecies/Entry/1799

I'm not sure I buy into it, but it is interesting to think about.

Oh wow, I never thought about any of that, especially the idea of Martell being the "sun" the sets in the east. Not sure if it's true, but it anyone would try to pull off something like that, Martin would.
 

lingiii

Banned
The best troll of all is going to be Howland Reed dying offscreen without ever having appeared or having done anything.

you shut up.

Howland Reed will be the final epilogue. He'll die the moment his thoughts turn to the Tower of Joy.

you too

He isn't a particularly important character beyond simply being the guy that presumably knows who Jon Snow's real parents are.

I think there's a lot more going on with Howland than "just knowing Jon's a Targaryen. He has Ned's bones (maybe insignificant, maybe a secret ark-of-the-covenant superweapon). He controls Greywater Watch, and thus the Neck. His crannogmen wrecked the shit out of the Ironborn at Moat Cailin.

In the show, Robb talks about Frey being the only lord with the strength-of-arms to assault the Westermen, but I think there's a good chance Reed's got quite the army stashed away. The Vale, The Neck, and Dorne stirring themselves could really shake up the power dynamics in Westeros. I suspect Wyman Manderly's power joined with Howland Reed's could do some serious scourging of the North.

Finally, Howland's son Jojen is a greenseer. He's got some bogmagic in his blood. Plus, in the Knight of the Laughing Tree story--assuming the knight wasn't Lyanna or maybe Eddard, which would be possible--Howland was either empowered by or represented by a Child of the Forest from God's Eye.

In short, he's got all kinds of stuff in place to start coming soon that could shake things up in Westeros.
 
Yea, you guys are right; if Rhaegar married Lyanna that would change things. Still I'm skeptical of any of this mattering, especially if only one person in the entire world can confirm it. But then again perhaps that's why Jon keeps dreaming about the Winterfell crypts: maybe some evidence is hidden down there.
Poor George. His fans figured out the twist with Jon's parentage about 20 years before he intended.

Seems more like a testament to his writing than a bad thing imo. The clues are there, as they are for the Red Wedding and even Aegon (whether he's real or fake).
 

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
Howland is also presumably in possession of a messenger from Robb regarding his line of succession. He's plenty important.
 
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