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[Jibbajabbawockky]

I'm not reading any of the posts in this thread because fuck getting spoiled, but goddamn this series (well, book, still on GoT) is waaaay addicting. The last time I got caught up into a novel's universe was the Harry Potter franchise years back (and that one took at least 3 books). I just picked GoT up on a whim's notice too because it wasn't too expensive and I had seen the fanbase here and there on websites, and now I'm already planning on ordering the rest of the series published so far.

The only question I have is whether the quality is consistent throughout the 5 books released so far, and I feel this thread might be better suited for that than the thread about the series.. I really like the smooth writing and the many perspective changes in GoT.

Spoiler

Please reply through the quote function so I can read your post through User CP. Makes it easier to ignore other posts.

I think all of the books are really good. A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings and A Storm of Swords are mostly seen as the best. The problem with A Feast for Crows and to a lesser extent, A Dance with Dragons, is that the pace slows way down from how crazy ASoS is.

Especially in AFfC, you're introduced to a bunch of new characters and the writing gets a bit more indulgent in really taking its time describing every last detail of the setting. Especially AFfC, its a big change of pace and delves more into world building rather than just big plot event after big plot event. If you go into AFfC and ADwD knowing they're a little more slowly paced, its not as much of a shock to the system after the 1st three books.

 

[pr0cs]

I'm not reading any of the posts in this thread because fuck getting spoiled, but goddamn this series (well, book, still on GoT) is waaaay addicting. The last time I got caught up into a novel's universe was the Harry Potter franchise years back (and that one took at least 3 books). I just picked GoT up on a whim's notice too because it wasn't too expensive and I had seen the fanbase here and there on websites, and now I'm already planning on ordering the rest of the series published so far.

The only question I have is whether the quality is consistent throughout the 5 books released so far, and I feel this thread might be better suited for that than the thread about the series.. I really like the smooth writing and the many perspective changes in GoT.

Spoiler

Please reply through the quote function so I can read your post through User CP. Makes it easier to ignore other posts.

I've read a fair number of books in my life and I still think nearly everything in the ASOIAF universe is excellent. The Dunk and Egg short stories (same universe but 200 years before GOT) are also REALLY well done and worth your time. I bought them on Amazon Kindle and Google Books and didn't regret it at all.
To be honest I think the short stories may be even better suited to HBO than Game of Thrones.

 

[Wh0 N0se]

Forgetting all the main stuff, which is the storyline that if it wasn't resolved, would disappoint you the most?

So for example, what has happened to Ben Stark?

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Pretty obvious. There's a great bit of foreshadowing from Sansa II in Clash when she goes to the Godswood and meets Dontos.

"When something brushed against her leg, she almost jumped out of her skin, a ragged black tom with a chewed-of ear. The creature spit at her and leapt away." Then, the very next paragraph, she thinks about the godswood, and we get "you could feel the old gods watching with a thousand unseen eyes."

Holy shit you just blew my mind. I had figured out that black cat was probably Rhaenys's kitten, but never imagined Bloodraven might be warging into it. As thin as that evidence is, I now completely believe it. The thousand eyes line is deliberate, no doubt about it. GRRM is a goddamn master.

That isn't what he said at all. He simply commented that Mago was alive in the books and was killed in the show to add an action scene.

Also, when you say "they," recall that the episode you're referring to was written by George R.R. Martin. This is all contained in the commentary for that episode (which is done by Martin himself). Martin doesn't say anything like that, he just comments on the "butterfly effect" that occurs when you change things that way.

GRRM didn't write that fight scene, it was written for another episode and later some scenes were shuffled. I posted a source about that a while back. He also didn't write the scene of Stannis leading the charge during the battle of Blackwater, that was added by the director. Even if the episode is credited to be written by GRRM, don't assume he has 100% full control over what happens to it.

I do agree that saying Mago is a "major" character is a stretch, though. GRRM said he was coming back in TWoW, not that he was a major character.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Forgetting all the main stuff, which is the storyline that if it wasn't resolved, would disappoint you the most?

So for example, what has happened to Ben Stark?

It'd be kind of funny if after the series is ended, no one knows what happened to Benjen, and when asked, GRRM would reply, "Hey, some people go missing in real life too and are never found, shit happens". lol, ultimate GRRM trolling.

(I don't want that to happen and it'd probably be a crappy writing move, but it would be pretty funny in a way.)

 

[Minus_Me]

Forgetting all the main stuff, which is the storyline that if it wasn't resolved, would disappoint you the most?

So for example, what has happened to Ben Stark?

I'd like to know what happened to Gerion Lannister.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I still can't figure out why the dominant religion in Westeros is the Seven. Practically all of the other religions can do demonstrable magic.

 

[desh]

I just had a thought about Cold Hands. Could he be an Other that Bloodraven warged into to help Bran get him to the cave?

 

[CrunchyB]

I'd like to know what happened to Gerion Lannister.

...and the ancestral Lannister sword, Brightroar.

There's probably a fair chance that Dany can recover it, it's probably somewhere in Essos after all. If she gets the Dothraki behind her, they can sack the entire continent

I just had a thought about Cold Hands. Could he be an Other that Bloodraven warged into to help Bran get him to the cave?

You mean a wight? Sure, that seems to be a popular theory. An animated corpse wrestled away from the Others. I wonder if Bloodraven knew him when he was alive.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I just had a thought about Cold Hands. Could he be an Other that Bloodraven warged into to help Bran get him to the cave?

A wight, not an Other. But yeah, possible. Look at Coldhands's introduction (Sam chapter in ASoS):

He heard the dark red leaves of the weirwood rustling, whispering to one another in a tongue he did not know. The starlight itself seemed to stir, and all around them the trees groaned and creaked. Sam Tarly turned the color of curdled milk, and his eyes went wide as plates. Ravens! They were in the weirwood, hundreds of them, thousands, perched on the bone-white branches, peering between the leaves. He saw their beaks open as they screamed, saw them spread their black wings.

Now look at the Blackwood insignia (Bloodraven's mother was a Blackwood):
http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Heraldry/Entry/House_Blackwood/
Pre-ADwD, that totally convinced me the 3-eyed crow was Bloodraven and that Coldhands was involved with him. Now it's confirmed.

 

[Trojita]

I still can't figure out why the dominant religion in Westeros is the Seven. Practically all of the other religions can do demonstrable magic.

They really couldn't until the meteor/dragons hatching.

 

[bengraven]

I just had a thought about Cold Hands. Could he be an Other that Bloodraven warged into to help Bran get him to the cave?

Could be a wight that was somehow broken of the 'curse' as well and given free will. By either Bloodraven, the children or something else.

 

[Angry Grimace]

...and the ancestral Lannister sword, Brightroar.

There's probably a fair chance that Dany can recover it, it's probably somewhere in Essos after all. If she gets the Dothraki behind her, they can sack the entire continent



You mean a wight? Sure, that seems to be a popular theory. An animated corpse wrestled away from the Others. I wonder if Bloodraven knew him when he was alive.

Wouldn't she have to go to Valyria itself? I assumed he just got shipwrecked around there (I assume that there was a volcanic/seismic event that destroyed Valyria).

 

[iirate]

Forgetting all the main stuff, which is the storyline that if it wasn't resolved, would disappoint you the most?

So for example, what has happened to Ben Stark?

I really want to see Sandor face zombie Gregor.

 

[Apath]

I still can't figure out why the dominant religion in Westeros is the Seven. Practically all of the other religions can do demonstrable magic.

This could be complete bullshit, but I heard the Seven were going to demonstrate their power in the coming books.

 

[Pikelet]

I'm not reading any of the posts in this thread because fuck getting spoiled, but goddamn this series (well, book, still on GoT) is waaaay addicting. The last time I got caught up into a novel's universe was the Harry Potter franchise years back (and that one took at least 3 books). I just picked GoT up on a whim's notice too because it wasn't too expensive and I had seen the fanbase here and there on websites, and now I'm already planning on ordering the rest of the series published so far.

The only question I have is whether the quality is consistent throughout the 5 books released so far, and I feel this thread might be better suited for that than the thread about the series.. I really like the smooth writing and the many perspective changes in GoT.

Spoiler

Please reply through the quote function so I can read your post through User CP. Makes it easier to ignore other posts.

I feel like the quality of the writing in terms of style and prose is something that books 4 & 5 really improve on. Some of the chapters are simply fantastically written. However, due to the happenstance of the plot, they are also somewhat less eventful. They are great to read, though i'm slightly worried about how well they can be adapted. Especially considering the lukewarm quality of all the plot points that the show has deviated from thus far.

 

[Pikelet]

You mean a wight? Sure, that seems to be a popular theory. An animated corpse wrestled away from the Others. I wonder if Bloodraven knew him when he was alive.

Perhaps coldhands was a warg who left his body before he was killed, only to return to his body once it was reanimated as a wight. In ADWD they mention the fact that a murder of crows follows them as they walk through the north, possibly indicating his warg abilities.

 

[Reyne]

I still can't figure out why the dominant religion in Westeros is the Seven. Practically all of the other religions can do demonstrable magic.

It is really simple. Religion is about faith, not magic. Besides, if someone demonstrates 'magic', they can easily be accused of being a sorcerers serving some demon or whatever. Like you know, Stannis and his Red Woman aren't looked positively upon, and I doubt her displaying her powers would change that much.

This could be complete bullshit, but I heard the Seven were going to demonstrate their power in the coming books.

Even if that were so ( I haven't heard those rumors ), there is a distinction between the gods showing their power or the practitioners of a particular faith doing it. I am seeing that many TV viewers are actually starting to think that this whole 'Lord of Light' is a thing, as in, a real god because the practitioners are displaying all those powers. Of course, I am inclined to remain skeptical seeing to how many 'tricks' and glamor Melisandre actually utilizes.

Personally, I would rather that The Seven remain more or less, without magical attributes, and keep on displaying their power through persuasion of faith, as they did in Feast - with Sparrows and Warriors son being near like crusaders.

 

[Joni]

This could be complete bullshit, but I heard the Seven were going to demonstrate their power in the coming books.

I have a feeling this references that army the faith is building with that Lannister knight in it.

It is really simple. Religion is about faith, not magic. Besides, if someone demonstrates 'magic', they can easily be accused of being a sorcerers serving some demon or whatever. Like you know, Stannis and his Red Woman a

I think the problem is that Stannis has left the Seven, is burning weirwoods, ... and not really the magical things Melissandra actually does.

 

[Wh0 N0se]

I have a feeling this references that army the faith is building with that Lannister knight in it.

Lancel powerplay for the Iron Throne!! Lancel the Blessed, first of his name!

 

[Aiii]

Even if that were so ( I haven't heard those rumors ), there is a distinction between the gods showing their power or the practitioners of a particular faith doing it. I am seeing that many TV viewers are actually starting to think that this whole 'Lord of Light' is a thing, as in, a real god because the practitioners are displaying all those powers. Of course, I am inclined to remain skeptical seeing to how many 'tricks' and glamor Melisandre actually utilizes.

Yeah, most of the magic they do are tricks. But then there's the murdering shadow offspring and the resurrecting of people that have been dead for days that makes you realise some of that shit is real.

But yeah, at this point I'd be more afraid about the army the seven are amassing if I was in Westeros.

 

[Gvaz]

They need to show more bad things happening from usage of the magic.

Like they did that with Drogo, and Dondarion, but there needs to be more heavy handed displays for the tv viewers.

 

[Bazza]

2nd Dunk and Egg book was delivered today, means i should be able to get through the last 2 story's before the weekend leaving me free for a 2nd read through of the books. Definitely need to as i clearly missed so much on my first read going by the pages i have read in this thread.

 

[Wh0 N0se]

2nd Dunk and Egg book was delivered today, means i should be able to get through the last 2 story's before the weekend leaving me free for a 2nd read through of the books. Definitely need to as i clearly missed so much on my first read going by the pages i have read in this thread.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I missed everything. When I came onto the forums I was like 'WOAH!'
I'm determined to make sure I go over everything in my first read of TWOW.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

How much magic was present before the Dragons came back? Serious question. Everyone took Thoros for an oaf before the Brotherhood Without Banners.

I'm not sure what Melissandra was capable of early on, either.

 

[Trojita]

They need to show more bad things happening from usage of the magic.

Like they did that with Drogo, and Dondarion, but there needs to be more heavy handed displays for the tv viewers.

Drogo's state seemed to be on purpose by Mirri Maz Duur.

How much magic was present before the Dragons came back? Serious question. Everyone took Thoros for an oaf before the Brotherhood Without Banners.

I'm not sure what Melissandra was capable of early on, either.

Not much at all. At that point it was mostly probably illusory tricks. After the meteor/dragons hatching the warlocks and other mages in Quarth were known to do crazy stuff, but it doesn't appear like they were able to do it before.. The pyromancer's were barely able to make wildfire before the dragons hatching. We don't know about the Lord of Light disciples since they appeared after the meteor/dragons hatching.

People took Thoros for an oaf because he was a drunk and didn't take things seriously. After being on the run he changed.

 

[Wh0 N0se]

Mirri Maz did her magic stuff before the Dragons so I guess there was some about, it seems that recently it's become more prevalent.

I wonder how powerful Melisandre was before, she could obviously read the fires (Not very well).

Not much at all. At that point it was mostly probably illusory tricks. After the meteor/dragons hatching the Warlocks and other mages in Quarth were known to do crazy stuff, but not before. The pyromancer's were barely able to make wildfire before.

People took Thoros for an oaf because he was a drunk and didn't take things seriously. After being on the run he changed.

SO tempted to post that Meme

 

[Trojita]

SO tempted to post that Meme

Dammit.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

The faceless men clearly have some abilities pre-dragons, too.

 

[Gvaz]

The faceless men clearly have some abilities pre-dragons, too.

I'm not really sure what kind of magic this is, or how they do it. It's old valariyan shit, so I suppose there are certain techniques or runes, such as with the swords that imbue them with their "powers" or durability or sharpness. Also, the effect on Others.

Mirri Maz did her magic stuff before the Dragons so I guess there was some about, it seems that recently it's become more prevalent.

That's specifically "blood magic" which is the worst of all magics.

All the magics are not without sacrifice (such as red priests resurrecting people who become more and more forgetful until they've forgotten who they are entirely) to a degree.

When the dragons were born, the Obsidian candles were lit again, which was the point of that scene later on. That even in the capital of SCIENCE BITCH, they're like "welp, magic's back, goddamnit"

There is also Ye Olde Magicks ala the gods in the north such as warging, greenseers, hearttrees, etc

So it's not that it was gone entirely, just that it became more subtle.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I feel like the quality of the writing in terms of style and prose is something that books 4 & 5 really improve on.

Not sure about that, nuncle. Many and more disagree with this.

 

[Larsa]

http://www.thebookseller.com/news/n...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter wat...
Why?

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Not sure about that, nuncle. Many and more disagree with this.

Your words are wind, and about as useful as nipples on a breastplate.

It was certainly odd how everyone started saying "nuncle" in AFFC.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Your words are wind, and about as useful as nipples on a breastplate.

It was certainly odd how everyone started saying "nuncle" in AFFC.

New words crop up and start getting used, and then abandoned quite frequently. It's like GRRM finds a word he likes, toys with it, and then drops it.

 

[Aiii]

http://www.thebookseller.com/news/n...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter wat...
Why?

Because money.

 

[freddy]

Because money.

Seems like more of an ego trip at this point. Wit from Tyrion is, after all, wit from George.

Oh well, hopefully Brandon Sanderson can tie up the loose ends in 20 years time.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It is really simple. Religion is about faith, not magic. Besides, if someone demonstrates 'magic', they can easily be accused of being a sorcerers serving some demon or whatever. Like you know, Stannis and his Red Woman aren't looked positively upon, and I doubt her displaying her powers would change that much.



Even if that were so ( I haven't heard those rumors ), there is a distinction between the gods showing their power or the practitioners of a particular faith doing it. I am seeing that many TV viewers are actually starting to think that this whole 'Lord of Light' is a thing, as in, a real god because the practitioners are displaying all those powers. Of course, I am inclined to remain skeptical seeing to how many 'tricks' and glamor Melisandre actually utilizes.

Personally, I would rather that The Seven remain more or less, without magical attributes, and keep on displaying their power through persuasion of faith, as they did in Feast - with Sparrows and Warriors son being near like crusaders.

I don't know, man. Beric was literally resurrected like six times.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Seems like more of an ego trip at this point. Wit from Tyrion is, after all, wit from George.

Sounds like a lame cash grab from the publishers, to be honest.

 

[Dysun]

Seems like more of an ego trip at this point. Wit from Tyrion is, after all, wit from George.

Oh well, hopefully Brandon Sanderson can tie up the loose ends in 20 years time.

David and Dan got you covered~!

 

[venom2124]

David and Dan got you covered~!

I actually hope so. If Martin is going to waste his time compiling quotes for a book no one will read, somebody will have to finish the series.

 

[Aiii]

I actually hope so. If Martin is going to waste his time compiling quotes for a book no one will read, somebody will have to finish the series.

Lol, you don't honestly think GRRM is compiling this, right? This is just someone from the publisher lifting quotes from the books so they can capitilize on Dinklage's popularity as Tyrion.

 

[Carcetti]

David and Dan got you covered~!

If Martin croaks they should get Guy Kay to do the historical/political stuff and Scott Bakker to insert the grim/dark stuff.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Scott Bakker

Oh HELL no.

 

[venom2124]

Lol, you don't honestly think GRRM is compiling this, right? This is just someone from the publisher lifting quotes from the books so they can capitilize on Dinklage's popularity as Tyrion.

He is not doing the work, but he is involved in it. It is yet another side project that will help slow his work on Winds to a grinding halt. With the show, conventions, NFL, and that upcoming history of Westoros book (which I am looking forward to), it really is not a stretch to think hbo will finish the series first. I hope I'm wrong because I really want to read about the land of always winter and soon.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

He is not doing the work, but he is involved in it. It is yet another side project that will help slow his work on Winds to a grinding halt. With the show, conventions, NFL, and that upcoming history of Westoros book (which I am looking forward to), it really is not a stretch to think hbo will finish the series first. I hope I'm wrong because I really want to read about the land of always winter and soon.

I highly doubt that Martin has any sort of involvement in this aside from looking over whatever the publisher compiles and maybe writing some sort of forward to it. That would barely take away any of his time. I think the world book is pretty much finished, too.

HBO has at least four to five years until they even have to worry about getting caught up.

 

[Dysun]

It's going to happen one or the other, even if by some miracle George improves upon his glacial pace and TWOW comes out before 2015/2016. The final book will never be on time

 

[Angry Grimace]

I just have my doubts that Martin really will abe able to adequately finish the series with just TWOW and ADOS. Robert Jordan apparently was dead serious that he could finish Wheel of Time with just a single book, but when Sanderson read the notes he was like, "there's no way" and ended up turning A Memory of Light into like three of them.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I just have my doubts that Martin really will abe able to adequately finish the series with just TWOW and ADOS. Robert Jordan apparently was dead serious that he could finish Wheel of Time with just a single book, but when Sanderson read the notes he was like, "there's no way" and ended up turning A Memory of Light into like three of them.

Which apparently wasn't needed at all, two would have been more than enough, based on reviews I read of the last volume...

 

[Angry Grimace]

Which apparently wasn't needed at all, two would have been more than enough, based on reviews I read of the last volume...

I haven't read the series, but I rather assume Sanderson didn't really have the option to just cut shit out that Jordan wanted in there. In any case, Jordan's hopes were apparently not realistic.

 

[Sirpopopop]

Oh HELL no.

Drinky Crow will have your head on a platter.

In fact, I sense his approach...