A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**

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Salvadora said:
So GRRM is doing a World of Ice and Fire, Tyrion book (which is just made of quotes?) and a new Dunk & Egg story this year. Along with his (possible) commitments to go to cons around the world...

Fuck.
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Tyrion book is just some compilation of quotes, I dont think GRRM has to actually do anything for that. And the Dunk & Egg story was postponed, but apparently he's still contributing a story to the anthology it was supposed to be released in

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/01/george-r-r-martin-to-debut-new-song-of-ice-and-fire-novella

George R. R. Martin recently unveiled the table of contents for Dangerous Women, the upcoming anthology edited by him and Gardner Dozois, and revealed that it will include a new novella set in the world of A Song of Ice and Fire.

The novella, titled “The Princess and the Queen,” will reveal the origins of the Targaryen Civil War, otherwise known as “The Dance of the Dragons.” A war that split a then fledgling Westeros in two, pitting Targaryen against Targaryen and dragon against dragon.

The Dangerous Women anthology was originally supposed to include the fourth Dunk & Egg adventure, which would have featured a tale about the history of Winterfell. Martin admits on his site that the tale of the Dance of the Dragons conflict was another monkey he had to get off of his back. Which makes us wonder... might we see the events in this story referred to in forthcoming seasons of Game of Thrones?
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I'm actually looking forward to that. It sounds like we're getting a lot more lore and page count.

And again, it may be important (probably) for the meta story.
 
I'm all about the Rickon plotline, but remember that wasn't he like 3 at the start of the series (older in the show of course)? That makes him 5-6 years old at this point. Yeah, he could be a rallying point for the Northern lords, but it seems unlikely he'll be really doing anything himself.

But even if he's just a plot point/event for the Northmen rather than an actual character, he's got to at least be that though right? Without that, what was the point of having Rickon in the series at all, Bran could have just been the youngest Stark.
 
Steelyuhas said:
I'm all about the Rickon plotline, but remember that wasn't he like 3 at the start of the series (older in the show of course)? That makes him 5-6 years old at this point. Yeah, he could be a rallying point for the Northern lords, but it seems unlikely he'll be really doing anything himself.

But even if he's just a plot point/event for the Northmen rather than an actual character, he's got to at least be that though right? Without that, what was the point of having Rickon in the series at all, Bran could have just been the youngest Stark.
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Well you gotta remember, GRRM did want to do a big time jump before he realized it wouldn't work out. In that case Rickon would've been 8-10 by now I think, and old enough to start controlling his wargs and really do some strategic damage perhaps?
 
Salvadora said:
So GRRM is doing a World of Ice and Fire, Tyrion book (which is just made of quotes?) and a new Dunk & Egg story this year. Along with his (possible) commitments to go to cons around the world...

Fuck.
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Honestly, fans should organize an aggressive campaign of telling cons to stop fucking inviting GRRM.

And to end the entire sport of football until he finishes the series.
 
Snake said:
Honestly, fans should organize an aggressive campaign of telling cons to stop fucking inviting GRRM.

And to end the entire sport of football until he finishes the series.
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He signed up for these cons 4-5 years ago; look at his schedule, it lists events he'll be attending in 2017. The issue is moreso the extra events and college speeches. If he was serious he'd buckle down, but I don't get the impression he has.
 
timetokill said:
Well you gotta remember, GRRM did want to do a big time jump before he realized it wouldn't work out. In that case Rickon would've been 8-10 by now I think, and old enough to start controlling his wargs and really do some strategic damage perhaps?
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Yeah I wonder how changing the time jump thing impacts things. Regardless his warging abilities are going to be important I assume.
Trojita said:
We already know he is. The book showed a vision of Shaggydog fucking up a unicorn.
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When was that?
 
RaidenZR said:
He's overextended himself in every sense of the word. Face it guys, we're never getting TWOW.

(cry)
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It hasn't even been two years since ADWD. Even a writer not known for delays is unlikely to deliver a 1200+ page book with hundreds of named characters and a super-dense plot with many interweaving pieces within 2 years. In a year or so we can actually start waiting. Bitching about the wait when it hasn't even been two years is just silly. Even if he writes the next book twice as fast as the last one that's over a year and half away.

You have to be realistic about these things.
 
PhoenixPause said:
He signed up for these cons 4-5 years ago; look at his schedule, it lists events he'll be attending in 2017. The issue is moreso the extra events and college speeches. If he was serious he'd buckle down, but I don't get the impression he has.
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Are you trolling this thread now? You know nothing of his work habits. For all you know, he spends every moment traveling to cons and the time in hotel rooms working on a laptop. Maybe travel makes him more productive. If only Martin took writing as seriously as you do, then we'd have a new book every year!
 
Freaking out now is pointless, the book was never going to come before mid-to-late 2015 even in the ideal circumstances. The book will probably come in 2016, and then we'll have a reason to freak because we'll know that one more book won't be enough and GRRM won't be able to write two more of these.
 
jiji said:
Guys, there are lots more productive things to do than waiting for GRRM novels. Like learning a language, growing a bonsai, or watching paint dry. C'mon, that bonsai's not gonna grow itself.
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I've spent literally half my life "waiting" for GRRM, it's a given that I don't even question anymore. Death, taxes, and GRRM. Why worry about it, it's just the status quo.
 
adamsappel said:
Are you trolling this thread now? You know nothing of his work habits. For all you know, he spends every moment traveling to cons and the time in hotel rooms working on a laptop. Maybe travel makes him more productive. If only Martin took writing as seriously as you do, then we'd have a new book every year!
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You're trolling me, actually. Martin doesn't write while traveling, he has said that numerous times on his blog. He has recently turned down some offers, and even decided not to go to London with his wife a few months ago so he could get some work done. In terms of his schedule, much of it was booked years ago making it very hard to cancel.

Maybe I'm taking the news about the World of Ice and Fire delay too seriously, who knows. I was never 100% confident about a 2014 release for Winds, I just thought it was a possibility if he really tried. Now...barring some progress update, I can't imagine it coming out next year alongside the World book.
 
VsRobot said:
It hasn't even been two years since ADWD. Even a writer not known for delays is unlikely to deliver a 1200+ page book with hundreds of named characters and a super-dense plot with many interweaving pieces within 2 years. In a year or so we can actually start waiting. Bitching about the wait when it hasn't even been two years is just silly. Even if he writes the next book twice as fast as the last one that's over a year and half away.

You have to be realistic about these things.
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Ok Logen Ninefingers.
:-)
 
adamsappel said:
Are you trolling this thread now? You know nothing of his work habits. For all you know, he spends every moment traveling to cons and the time in hotel rooms working on a laptop. Maybe travel makes him more productive. If only Martin took writing as seriously as you do, then we'd have a new book every year!
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Why do you say that? GRRM writes everything at home with a MS-DOS computer with Wordstar. That's information he has shared before.
 
PhoenixPause said:
You're trolling me, actually. Martin doesn't write while traveling, he has said that numerous times on his blog. He has recently turned down some offers, and even decided not to go to London with his wife a few months ago so he could get some work done. In terms of his schedule, much of it was booked years ago making it very hard to cancel.

Maybe I'm taking the news about the World of Ice and Fire delay too seriously, who knows. I was never 100% confident about a 2014 release for Winds, I just thought it was a possibility if he really tried. Now...barring some progress update, I can't imagine it coming out next year alongside the World book.
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Why would you ever expect 2014 so confidently? He didn't start writing until 2012, that would require him to write a 400k+ word book in under 2.5 years. That's probably impossible for present day GRRM.
 
Basileus777 said:
Why would you ever expect 2014 so confidently? He didn't start writing until 2012, that would require him to write a 400k+ word book in under 2.5 years. That's probably impossible for present day GRRM.
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Well George has said the goal is 2014, so that's probably what PhoenixPause is referring to.
 
PhoenixPause said:
You're trolling me, actually. Martin doesn't write while traveling, he has said that numerous times on his blog. He has recently turned down some offers, and even decided not to go to London with his wife a few months ago so he could get some work done. In terms of his schedule, much of it was booked years ago making it very hard to cancel.

Maybe I'm taking the news about the World of Ice and Fire delay too seriously, who knows. I was never 100% confident about a 2014 release for Winds, I just thought it was a possibility if he really tried. Now...barring some progress update, I can't imagine it coming out next year alongside the World book.
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So, in other words, he is taking it seriously and is buckling down. You know nothing, PhoenixDark.

ChimpBottle said:
Why do you say that? GRRM writes everything at home with a MS-DOS computer with Wordstar. That's information he has shared before.
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You're right, he does use that, and PD was right about his not working while traveling. I was just calling him out for yet another "GRRM should be working harder! Oh, if only he worked harder!" post. I won't begrudge a writer the trappings of his success just so I can get my readin' on a little sooner. I'm still waiting for David Gerrold to finish another Chtorr book.
 
I'd be more willing to tolerate an author's extracurricular activities and victory laps if said author weren't as old, fat and pale as Martin. Not trying to bag on the dude but in every recent pic I've seen of him he looks like hell.
 
There's more to it than "if only he worked harder." Martin works very hard, I wouldn't deny that. My point focuses entirely on whether he's working to get the book out within the next two years, or whether this will fall into 2016. He's going to basically be on the road for most of this year; his biggest periods of "non traveling" seem to be right now, and in June-mid July. Next year his schedule is empty until May 2014. Now, if he starts adding various new cons and speaking events into early 2014 then I don't think it's outrageous to suggest that bodes poorly for the book's release window.

GRRM isn't my bitch, nor am I entitled to the book ASAP. I just don't believe another 5 year wait is possible, with the show catching up to him. Granted that assumes the show will continue; perhaps it'll be cancelled. But I think we can all agree that unless the Red Wedding leads to a massive drop in ratings (unlikely IMO) the show will be renewed for a fifth season by this time next year. Likewise given how strong the second half of ASOS is (plus whatever ADWD/AFFC stuff they add), I think a sixth season is probably a go too; after that who knows. Martin has compared this process to laying down railroad tracks as a train quickly rushes towards him, and it's clear to see why. To me, a 2014 or 2015 release would give me confidence, and the only way that happens is if Martin buckles down. That's all I'm saying.
 
The show is going to pass him, I don't think there is any way to avoid it except via cancellation. Even if he gets the next book out in 2015 or 2016, the show will still reach the end before the final book is anywhere near finished. He shouldn't even worry about this, there's nothing to be done about it.
 
I think the show will probably pass the books. Martin is writing huge 1000+ page novels. D&D are writing 10 hour screenplays. But it's not like Martin is uninvolved in the process. He's still going to be the font of the overarching plot and characters. He might even end up writing the script outlines before the book itself.

Baraka in the White House said:
I'd be more willing to tolerate an author's extracurricular activities and victory laps if said author weren't as old, fat and pale as Martin. Not trying to bag on the dude but in every recent pic I've seen of him he looks like hell.
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Let him enjoy his success. Happiness is healthy. I know it's rough to be a fan of something and want more of it, but it will get here when it gets here. I'm sure you don't want him dying typing in his basement just to meet fan expectations.

Besides, isn't a lot of criticism of GRRM entirely due to him rushing to publish? AFFC had to leave out major viewpoints and ADWD could have used a month or two time of reflection before final editing.
 
Saying he takes 6 years to write unpolished books isn't exactly a defense. There's been no correlation between quality and time spent writing when it comes to GRRM. But I'm inclined to believe that the writing takes so long because the series structure fell apart and he's struggling to juggle all the threads he introduced (AFFC's unnecessary complications are undoubtedly biting him in the ass), not because he's lazy or going to too many cons.
 
ADWD wasn't rushed to publication, it was just poorly edited by a fan. The process lasted months and was rigorous from all accounts. At this point I don't think many people tell Marin what works and what doesn't work, and his editor is one of his best friends apparently. Someone needed to tell him Dany's chapters could be almost halved without losing anything but fluff; imagine if Dany's ACOK arc had 25 chapters.

I suppose Martin would chuckle at that criticism and point out AFFC was criticized for not having Dany, Jon, and Tyrion, yet the reactions of many fans after reading ADWD was that it had too much of them, especially Dany; personally I loved Tyrion's chapters and liked Jon's.
 
I honestly try not to think about it, it will come when it comes.

I just hate to think of seeing the conclusion first in the television show. But also I would hate to read the last 2 novels and they be rushed and quickly put together. Honestly Can't decide which is worse.
 
It all boils down to how the TV series will deal with AFFC/ADWD. If they are faithful to the source material and go about in the current pace, then the TV series will not pass the books for another three years or so. ( Season 6, 2016 perhaps? ) I figure Winds of Winter will come late 2015/ early 2016. So the TV series is probably going to pass the books then, if not earlier.
Well, I have no idea how they are planning to proceed with the TV series after ASOS is done. If the TV series doesn't have the source material to rely on anymore, but just a general guideline and conclusion as revealed by Martin then its probably going to differ quite a lot from how it eventually unfolds in the books.
I do hope it doesn't come to that though. This could be avoided if Martin worked some magic and released WOW early/mid 2015 and some more magic with releasing DoS in 2017/2018 or so, with the TV series and books reaching their conclusion at the same time. Oh well...
 
I bet he doesn't even enjoy writing these books anymore. The series has ballooned way beyond his original intention, and I think he prefers working on his other projects.
 
So I got to the chapter in AFFC where Cersei is imprisoned by the High Septon and Jaime burns her letter last night. So satisfying. So so satisfying.
 
Reyne said:
It all boils down to how the TV series will deal with AFFC/ADWD. If they are faithful to the source material and go about in the current pace, then the TV series will not pass the books for another three years or so. ( Season 6, 2016 perhaps? ) I figure Winds of Winter will come late 2015/ early 2016. So the TV series is probably going to pass the books then, if not earlier.
Well, I have no idea how they are planning to proceed with the TV series after ASOS is done. If the TV series doesn't have the source material to rely on anymore, but just a general guideline and conclusion as revealed by Martin then its probably going to differ quite a lot from how it eventually unfolds in the books.
I do hope it doesn't come to that though. This could be avoided if Martin worked some magic and released WOW early/mid 2015 and some more magic with releasing DoS in 2017/2018 or so, with the TV series and books reaching their conclusion at the same time. Oh well...
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When asked, Martin hoped they'd take 2 seasons each for FFC and DWD. It's nice to want things, but I doubt they'll take that much time for the 2 books. My guess is 2 seasons for FFC and DWD combined. Even then I think they'll change or expand a lot. For instance, the Dany & Brienne storylines are probably (hopefully?) gonna be vastly different. I'm curious to see how D&D handle those books, it's going to be one hell of an exercise. Who knows, maybe they'll hand over the reins to Cogman once SoS is done? How cruel that would be.
WoW will likely come out before the tv show catches up, but it's pretty much a given we'll see the conclusion of the series on tv first. Unless they'd start doing prequel stuff or taking a hiatus. Neither of which are likely. I think show people have already confirmed that a (Robert's Rebellion) prequel is never happening.
 
2 Seasons for each Feast and Dance? It's nice to want things indeed.

I don't think there is enough interesting content for 2 seasons between the two, specifically with the lead characters... aka your most popular ones. Imagine two seasons of Dany just moderating the city? Show watchers wouldn't deal with that shit.
 
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