Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dies_at_the_End
But, seriously, nobody ever dies in cliffhangers in ASOIAF.
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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But, seriously, nobody ever dies in cliffhangers in ASOIAF.
only to remove him from his Nightwatch Oath
Melisandre is still around and he can wrag
blainethemono
Member
Haven't actually seen it for myself, but some of the theories i've read mention that the WOIAF app confirmed that Robb legitimized Jon as his heir
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/77828-the-great-northern-conspiracy-reexamined/
John Dunbar
correct about everything
Even speculation of a possible Jon-Dany marriage makes my soul weep.
Also Stannis was pushing to legitimise him as a Stark during Dance
CrashBandicoot
Member
Yeah, I think Renly's assassination was a huge blow for Robb's chances. He looked to be stronger than Stannis, and unlike Stannis would probably be cooler with alliances - Stannis always saw all of the seven kingdoms as his right, I don't think Renly was bothered about the north and would have made a treaty with Robb to trap the Lannisters between them.
Of course there's loads of unfortunate events that went against him, that's just the one that really stuck out to me.
Of course there's loads of unfortunate events that went against him, that's just the one that really stuck out to me.
Yes! I'm the same way. And yet it never turns out any different, dammit.
Haha, I feel the same way... DNW.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Hahaha. Whew!
Speaking of Dany and shit, she's riding the pale mare, right? Or is it just that her strict diet is hitting her hard?
I don't even want to entertain the possibility that she might die
... Unless maybe if it's a badass meaningful death right at the end of the last book.
I don't even want to entertain the possibility that she might die
... Unless maybe if it's a badass meaningful death right at the end of the last book.
cj_iwakura
Member
No. Her symptoms more closely resemble miscarriage (or possibly just the return of her "red flower", with a vengeance) than the flux.
She's not dying... But she may be fertile!
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
Didn't Renly say that he would let Robb keep his crown as long as he swore fealty/allegiance? Letting the ruler of your largest, most isolated and most inhospitable kingdom upgrade his title in exchange for unwavering support isn't such a bad deal when he could just march himself back north and be done with the lot of them. Of course, even updating the paperwork is too much change for Stannis.
Finn of Ooo
Member
I'd say the biggest contributing factor to Robb's defeat was Edmure defying orders and sending Tywin off to eventually turn the tide of battle at kings landing. Edmure was just a fucking idiot in general.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
The biggest contributor to Robb's defeat was sending Theon back to the Iron Islands. Theon was originally taken as a ward (aka hostage) to ensure the Greyjoys would never rebel again. By sending Theon back to his father, they did...exactly what anyone would expect them to do. Plus, Theon's invasion of Winterfell basically sealed Robb's fate. It forced him to hastily rush back to the north and through the crossing again. Essentially Robb's downfall was caused by a variety of factors, but I feel like letting Theon go was what started it all.
Also, somewhat unrelated, but I've always wondered if Melisandre actually could have prevented the wildfire from destroying much of Stannis' fleet. She claims as much.
Also, somewhat unrelated, but I've always wondered if Melisandre actually could have prevented the wildfire from destroying much of Stannis' fleet. She claims as much.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
Of all the dumb shit Catelyn did, insisting that Robb should keep Theon close was one of her better notions.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
I hate the idea of Tyrion being a Targaryen so much. It's one of my least favorite fan theories (along with the one about Varys actually being a woman). Tyrion as a character is defined to a great extent by his relationship with Tywin; how Tyrion is so much like his father yet is also despised by him. If it turns out that Tyrion was a Targaryen the whole time, that ruins that. Plus we don't need any more secret Targaryens.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
I think it's pretty telling that Robb winning (or at least forcing a stalemate) would not have been too far-fetched had just one or two events not transpired as they did: Lysa staying out of the war, Stannis and Renly splitting their strength, Renly dying, Blackwater, Roob marrying Jane, Edmure redirecting Tywin, Tyrells supporting Lannisters, Roose deliberately losing troops at Duskendale(?), Greyjoys attacking the North, Theon taking Winterfell and maybe even Cat freeing Jaime.
Thinking on it though, the Theon situation was probably the big one because it was quite possibly the worst outcome. Not only do the vikings reject the offer of an alliance, they also decide not to attack the wealthy and pre-occupied West/South but the vast and relatively poor North. Then on top of that, Theon decides to disobey orders, take Winterfell and 'kill' Bran and Rickon, which leads to Catelyn freeing Jaime and Robb losing the Freys.
Thinking on it though, the Theon situation was probably the big one because it was quite possibly the worst outcome. Not only do the vikings reject the offer of an alliance, they also decide not to attack the wealthy and pre-occupied West/South but the vast and relatively poor North. Then on top of that, Theon decides to disobey orders, take Winterfell and 'kill' Bran and Rickon, which leads to Catelyn freeing Jaime and Robb losing the Freys.
That doesn't change much in my opinion, as Tyrion was shaped by his mutual hateful relation with his father. He is Tywin's son, even if it turns out he's not his biological father.
It just adds an interesting layer to Tywin's hate, even if the whole "you killed my beloved wife and I hate you" is nice but not good enough (and I have difficulty picturing Tywin loving someone so much).
Plus it's the only way for Tyrion to break free of his Lannister lineage that plagues him so much, while freeing him of his past crimes of kinslaying. (I fully expect Jaime to be the valonqar)
Also his dreams about dragons and a few other details are definitely something of importance.
Anyway we need a third head for the dragon.
I don't beleive Aegon is a true Targ, nor expect him to live long.
Steelyuhas
Member
Agreed, although you could argue that Edmure couldn't been given clearly instructions.
Sending Theon to the Iron Islands was a big one as well.
But the Edmure one is a huge WHAT IF in a series of what ifs. Edmure doesn't block Tywin and Robb gets a chance to outmaneuver him/Edmure can trap him between himself and Robb and Stannis takes King's Landing without Tywin's relief of the siege. Changes the face of the war dramatically overnight.
EDIT: and yeah about Robb and the War of the Five Kings, Robb never had any intention of fighting either Baratheon brothers, just the Lannisters, and then the Greyjoys because they attacked his lands. It would have been interesting to see what happened between Robb and Stannis if something like the above had happened.
This is the first time I've heard this one. I'm dying.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
No, you're not. I was crushed. I think I was more upset at the Old Bear dying in the mutiny (that really really pissed me off) and Oberyn losing that duel than the Red Wedding. Though, Catelyn having her throat slit did break my heart. I didn't care much about Robb, only in the sense that it affected Catelyn to see her losing (what she thought was) her last living son. Poor Cat. ;_;
But yeah, fucking Mountain indeed. To think he's still alive in some way. I hope the Hound somehow challenges him at Cersei's trial, but he's all religious and lame (literally) now, and leagues away from King's Landing so I don't see that happening...
Yeah seriously, lolwot
Boom Boom Pow
Banned
stannis would have wanted Rob to kneel though. I think rob pretty much would have
John Dunbar
correct about everything
It really wasn't. Other than the fact that Edmure had no way of knowing what the silly king wanted, the Tyrells were the main force in the battle of Blackwater, and they would have attacked even without Tywin.
Found a pretty cool drawing of Daenerys (NSFW):
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbc734GSNz1rt3l2ao1_500.jpg
edit: Let's post more fan drawings. I like this one of Robert Baratheon:
Must be during the early years of his reign, he is wearing a crown but is looking handsome.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbc734GSNz1rt3l2ao1_500.jpg
edit: Let's post more fan drawings. I like this one of Robert Baratheon:
Must be during the early years of his reign, he is wearing a crown but is looking handsome.
They wouldn't have done anything without an alliance with Tywin and I doubt they would trust Littlefinger enough to attack Stannis without support of Tywin.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Jorah's damaged goods as far as I am concerned. Bleh. Why would she take him back?
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I hadn't heard the theory that he was a woman. I personally think he might not be a eunich, though.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
Probably more obscure, but there's a theory that Varys is actually a woman and he (or she) is in love with Magister Illyrio. And that's why they're trying to get their son Aegon/Young Griff on the Iron Throne.
Personally, I don't like that.
Moff
Member
.jpg)
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Yeee-uck.
Found a pretty cool drawing of Daenerys (NSFW):
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbc734GSNz1rt3l2ao1_500.jpg
edit: Let's post more fan drawings. I like this one of Robert Baratheon:
Must be during the early years of his reign, he is wearing a crown but is looking handsome.
:lol
The Anti-Monitor
Banned
Where do people get those ideas from.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Yeah, I don't like either idea, but Tyrion being a Targaryen is really stupid.
Why. The writing is on the wall since book one!
The Anti-Monitor
Banned
Why does anyone think Tyrion is a secret Targaryen? I mean... what?
At least Jon being one makes *some* sense. Why Tyrion? Because of his devilish good looks?
At least Jon being one makes *some* sense. Why Tyrion? Because of his devilish good looks?
CrashBandicoot
Member
Because everyone loves Tyrion and everyone hates the Lannisters.
There are more "evidence" (details) regarding Tyrion than Jon in the books, actually.
The only leap of faith would be believing that at some point Aerys forced himself on Tywin's wife which is not that far fetched.
badcrumble
Member
Basically, the need for a third head of the dragon, the fact that it's been established that (apparently) that person needs to be a Targaryen, and because he's a major protagonist.
Personally, I'd rather see him be the hyper-competent Hand of the Queen to Daenarys to counterbalance her (occasionally very effective) impulsiveness.
Mainly has to do with Aerys infatuation with Tywin's wife Joanna.
http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/FAQ/Entry/Who_is_Tyrions_father
http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/FAQ/Entry/Who_is_Tyrions_father
-Tyrion dreams about dragons (a Targ trait) and is fascinated by them
-Apparently he has little fear of fire (weak detail I agree) and use of wildfire
-Aerys was jealous of Tywin and may have raped/seduced his wife to satisfy his ego
-another Targ had mismatched eyes
-there must be 3 Targs. Assuming that either Aegon or jon isn't one, Tyrion is the only candidate
-Tywin's comments about not being able to prove he isn't his son and his final comments "you're not my son". Would also add depth and credibility to his hate of the dwarf on top of killing Joanna
-that would free him on his lineage and kinslaying (there are far too much insistence on that in the last book, Martin really repeats himself when something is amiss), redemption blah blah blah
-some other details I don't remember
It's thin and we'll see, but there is a possibility that doesn't come out of nowhere and it doesn't really diminish the fact that he was shaped by Tywin anyway.
It's basically the "I've killed/loved my sibling but he/she is not really my sibling so it's ok" trope.
-Apparently he has little fear of fire (weak detail I agree) and use of wildfire
-Aerys was jealous of Tywin and may have raped/seduced his wife to satisfy his ego
-another Targ had mismatched eyes
-there must be 3 Targs. Assuming that either Aegon or jon isn't one, Tyrion is the only candidate
-Tywin's comments about not being able to prove he isn't his son and his final comments "you're not my son". Would also add depth and credibility to his hate of the dwarf on top of killing Joanna
-that would free him on his lineage and kinslaying (there are far too much insistence on that in the last book, Martin really repeats himself when something is amiss), redemption blah blah blah
-some other details I don't remember
It's thin and we'll see, but there is a possibility that doesn't come out of nowhere and it doesn't really diminish the fact that he was shaped by Tywin anyway.
It's basically the "I've killed/loved my sibling but he/she is not really my sibling so it's ok" trope.
Tyrion secret Targ is dumb, but it's nowhere near as outlandish as "Varys is a woman and Aegon is his love child with Ilyrio". I mean WHAT THE HELL HOW DID ANYONE EVEN THINK OF IT!?
*raises hand*
the duel was far more brutal than the wedding, no doubt. I mean:
- The mountain was an antagonist far more developed and hateable than Frey (at that point of the story), and surely, far more dangerous
- I actually cared more about Tyrion than any of the people present at the RW (sans Ayra)
- Oberyn's death was far more brutal and gory than merely getting stabbed by crossbows
- "Ooooh, cool new character introduced! Bronns' replacement as "best buddy couple in the books, where we g..." *BAM* DEAD, MOTHERFUCKER!
The duel was one of the series highlights for me, period. I do hope that Oberyn gets increased exposition time in the show, who knows, perhaps a higher profile type of actor a la Sean Bean, considering his lifespawn. Antonio Banderas woud rock, IMHO.
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