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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**

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B

BrokenEchelon

Banned
Basileus777 said:
There's no reason to believe Varys and Illyrio have any inkling of Jon's heritage or significance. Varys doesn't seem to be the type to hire expensive magical assassins either.
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Do you have a theory about it?

The only person left alive who would know about Jon's supposed heritage is Howland Reed, and it seems doubtful that he would have any reason to be involved in such a plot, or inform others who might be involved in it.

Varys on the other hand was present at King's Landing during Aerys II's rule and he spoke out against Rhaegar to Aerys regarding the Tourney at Harrenhal.

Rhaegar also did send three of the King's Guard to watch over Lyanna at the Tower of Joy, something I'm sure Varys would've been aware of and curious about.

Correct me if I'm wrong as it's pretty late and I'm tired.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
BrokenEchelon said:
Do you have a theory about it?

The only person left alive who would know about Jon's supposed heritage is Howland Reed, and it seems doubtful that he would have any reason to be involved in such a plot, or inform others who might be involved in it.

Varys on the other hand was present at King's Landing during Aerys II's rule and he spoke out against Rhaegar to Aerys regarding the Tourney at Harrenhal.

Rhaegar also did send three of the King's Guard to watch over Lyanna at the Tower of Joy, something I'm sure Varys would've been aware of and curious about.

Correct me if I'm wrong as it's pretty late and I'm tired.
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If Jaqen H'ghar was actually aiming at going to the wall and killing Jon, why didn't he do it then? We don't know what his mission was, maybe he was the faceless man that killed Balon Greyjoy, but whatever it was, maybe posing as a prisoner was just a temporary convenience for him.
 
B

BrokenEchelon

Banned
Basileus777 said:
If Jaqen H'ghar was actually aiming at going to the wall and killing Jon, why didn't he do it then? We don't know what his mission was, maybe he was the faceless man that killed Balon Greyjoy, but whatever it was, maybe posing as a prisoner was just a temporary convenience for him.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's true. He clearly had plenty of time after parting ways with Arya to go take care of that, plus the stuff with the Alchemist and Pate.

I look forward to finding out eventually.
 
K

keuja

Member
BrokenEchelon said:
Do you have a theory about it?

The only person left alive who would know about Jon's supposed heritage is Howland Reed, and it seems doubtful that he would have any reason to be involved in such a plot, or inform others who might be involved in it.

Varys on the other hand was present at King's Landing during Aerys II's rule and he spoke out against Rhaegar to Aerys regarding the Tourney at Harrenhal.

Rhaegar also did send three of the King's Guard to watch over Lyanna at the Tower of Joy, something I'm sure Varys would've been aware of and curious about.

Correct me if I'm wrong as it's pretty late and I'm tired.
Click to expand...

Yes pretty sure that having 3 of the 7 King Guards being sent to the middle of nowhere would not go unnoticed. And among the 3 were their Lord commander (Gerold Hightower) and their most skilled fighter (Arthur Dayne).
 
G

Gvaz

Banned
Wh0 N0se said:
That's the point TV viewers will look back on in a few years time saying 'Why didn't Dany just take the gold and go to Westeros!?'
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Because she felt she had a duty to free the slaves, in a land where slavery has been the norm for a thousand+ years.
 
W

Wh0 N0se

Member
Gvaz said:
Because she felt she had a duty to free the slaves, in a land where slavery has been the norm for a thousand+ years.
Click to expand...

I know the reasons I'm just saying that the TV viewers will be watching Dany in Essos for a few more years and they'll rewatch the show at some point and think 'If only...'
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
BrokenEchelon said:
To get sent to the Wall to kill Jon Snow by order of Varys and Illyrio to ensure he doesn't complicate the Targaryen heirs' claim.

Maybe?
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Why wouldn't he just volunteer for the Night's Watch straight up?

Or go kill Jon at Winterfell before he leaves?

I'm not sure he actually meant to be captured, since it nearly got him killed until Arya saved him.
 
V

Violater

Member
Even as a book reader I feel that Dany is exactly where she is meant to be.
Her wanting to end slavery is a good thing, no one complained when she set the unsullied free.
 
L

Levi

Banned
When the entire series is out, people discovering it won't mind that Dany takes one book to learn to rule before starting her war on Westeros. It's only those of us reading it as it comes out who are becoming frustrated at Dany, and only because we know that it's going to be years before we see Dany invading, something some of us have already waited a decade-plus to see.

However, new readers who jump on when the series is complete won't have the years of theory and speculation to enrich their experience either. So don't be jealous of today's toddlers, for whom ASOIAF will be a completed work when they are of age. Watching it develop has its own pleasures.
 
C

CitizenVectron

Member
Dabookerman said:
No book thread...

He knows nothing
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Don't quote people from the NO-BOOK thread because it shows up in their user CP, and if they click on it they will be brought to this thread and could be spoiled before they realize what is happening.

And even if they don't, it definitely tells them that something they said is true or on track if it's being quoted in the full thread.
 
A

ahoyhoy

Unconfirmed Member
Ignatz Mouse said:
Why wouldn't he just volunteer for the Night's Watch straight up?

Or go kill Jon at Winterfell before he leaves?

I'm not sure he actually meant to be captured, since it nearly got him killed until Arya saved him.
Click to expand...

Indeed. Everyone seems to be operating under the assumption that Faceless Men are infallible, and while their training is indeed rigorous, it can be hard to assume as such, especially considering Arya is a year or so out from being a full-fledged member and is still very much a non-devout creature of rage and bloodlust.
 
W

Wh0 N0se

Member
VsRobot said:
When the entire series is out, people discovering it won't mind that Dany takes one book to learn to rule before starting her war on Westeros. It's only those of us reading it as it comes out who are becoming frustrated at Deny, and only because we know that it's going to be years before we see Dany invading, something some of us have already waited a decade-plus to see.

However, new readers who jump on when the series is complete won't have the years of theory and speculation to enrich their experience either. So don't be jealous of today's toddlers, for whom ASOIAF will be a completed work when they are of age. Watching it develop has its own pleasures.
Click to expand...

That's a very good point well made and I think that people need to remember this sometimes.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
ahoyhoy said:
Indeed. Everyone seems to be operating under the assumption that Faceless Men are infallible, and while their training is indeed rigorous, it can be hard to assume as such, especially considering Arya is a year or so out from being a full-fledged member and is still very much a non-devout creature of rage and bloodlust.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Arya also cheated though, by warging into the cat. She's probably messed up the program for herself.

I do think it would be badass to find out that Jaquen was there/captured for a reason, but even that could be as simple as him working a one-off contract. Other than the Pate sequence, there's nothing I know of that suggests a larger agenda for the Faceless Men.
 
O

Obscured

Member
VsRobot said:
When the entire series is out, people discovering it won't mind that Dany takes one book to learn to rule before starting her war on Westeros. It's only those of us reading it as it comes out who are becoming frustrated at Deny, and only because we know that it's going to be years before we see Dany invading, something some of us have already waited a decade-plus to see.

However, new readers who jump on when the series is complete won't have the years of theory and speculation to enrich their experience either. So don't be jealous of today's toddlers, for whom ASOIAF will be a completed work when they are of age. Watching it develop has its own pleasures.
Click to expand...

Good point. It is for this reason that I am reading the entire series again. It is amazing how much seems to happen so much quicker. I'm also trying to keep better track of what happens in each book so I can more readily be involved in the discussions here as for now they all blend for me. The only thing I will quibble about is that wool doublet and lamprey pie descriptions do not improve on a re-read.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
A Blackfyre Rebellion novella, movie, or play done from the POV of the rebels, couched as an inevitable tragedy, would be wholly awesome.

Start with the deathbed legitimazation of the bastards and the passing of the sword, end on the Redgrass Field.

The rebels were probaby in the right, although the Black Dragons seen afterwards sure were unworthy assholes.
 
V

viciouskillersquirrel

Member
Still on my combined re-read of Feast/Dance and I have to say - the Ironborn and Dorne chapters don't suddenly become non-boring the second time around.

Mind you, I understand what Darkstar was trying to do better. The first time through, his attacking Myrcella seemed like a random betrayal for no good reason. The second time around, it's more obvious that he was one of these guys who was just itching to start a war, so when Aerorotor catches them at the river, he decided to make a Hail Mary play at still achieving this aim by killing Myrcella.

He's still an idiot, but I understand.
 
T

TheChewyWaffles

Member
Wow - about halfway through ADWD and I just found out who Reek is. Devastating...I'm stunned. Sad thing is this revelation won't be 1/10th as effective (if at all) on TV.
 
G

Gamer @ Heart

Member
viciouskillersquirrel said:
Still on my combined re-read of Feast/Dance and I have to say - the Ironborn and Dorne chapters don't suddenly become non-boring the second time around.
.
Click to expand...

I find that is true for almost every chapter you may not have liked the first time around. I want to see certain stories progress so badly that the first time reading through the 'other' stuff, i found myself not paying nearly as much attention.

Its then you get to enjoy the smaller moments of the books and the perspective they provide.

My re read of both feast and dance a month or two after the first read left me much happier and positive about the books than other people i know who only read it once.
 
S

suzu

Member
Victarion was the one who burned/drowned the whores as an offering right? lol. I should probably do a re-read of the series sometime soon.

The Greyjoys were interesting at points, so they're all right with me.
 
V

viciouskillersquirrel

Member
Buckethead said:
I just remembered they changed Asha's name to Yara and I punched my desk.
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Why? It's not like it's that important a part of her character. They could call her Tyffanie (per GRRM's penchant for weird spellings of ordinary names) and her character would lose nothing.

Asha/Osha confusion would reign supreme among show viewers.
 
D

Dysun

Member
Last Hearth said:
The only Greyjoy I can't stand is Victarion.

I find Aeron and Euron very fascinating, and I really enjoy Asha.
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I'm the opposite. Asha/Aeron bore me to tears but Victarion is pretty good and Theon reigns supreme. Euron isn't a POV so I won't judge him equally although I'm more interested in his role in the story going forward than any other Greyjoy

Morrigan Targaryen said:
...Seriously?

How could you not figure it out at like... the first line of his first chapter?
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I think I knew it was Theon from just the title 'Reek I'. Slowly discovering what had happened to him was the best part of ADWD
 
J

John Dunbar

correct about everything
You can tell the Red Wedding episode is getting close when people in the tagged spoilers thread are pretty much without spoiler tags discussing the huge surprise that makes them want to see reaction videos like with Ned, effectively ruining half the surprise to everyone who has not read the book.
 
F

freddy

Banned
John Dunbar said:
You can tell the Red Wedding episode is getting close when people in the tagged spoilers thread are pretty much without spoiler tags discussing the huge surprise that makes them want to see reaction videos like with Ned, effectively ruining half the surprise to everyone who has not read the book.
Click to expand...
If people haven't read the books and read posts in there, they deserve whatever they get anyway.
 
L

Levi

Banned
Some dude in the show thread thought Robb was the one marrying Roslin Frey and that the show was changing the book events.

The whole reason for the RW was Robb not marrying a Frey.

He was complaining being murdered at his own wedding was more tragic than being murdered at his uncles.

I don't feel bad anymore that I didn't catch the Frey Pies in ADWD my first time through.
 
E

ezrarh

Member
VsRobot said:
Some dude in the show thread thought Robb was the one marrying Roslin Frey and that the show was changing the book events.

The whole reason for the RW was Robb not marrying a Frey.

He was complaining being murdered at his own wedding was more tragic than being murdered at his uncles.

I don't feel bad anymore that I didn't catch the Frey Pies in ADWD my first time through.
Click to expand...

I missed the Frey pies on my first read through as well. I really do hope they somehow put that in the show.
 
Z

ZeroRay

Member
The theme of cannibalism throughout ADWD was very subtle and well done.

Because of that, I'm expecting the show to shove that shit right in our face.
 
K

King Boo

Member
sometimes when i lurk in the t.v. series, i get shocked at how powerful ned is. excellent general, and excellent swordsman that could have defeated jaime.

i wonder what their reaction will be after the wedding.
 
W

Wh0 N0se

Member
cj_iwakura said:
Started my first re-read of AFFC. First chapter is amazing. Forgot how awesome Aeron is.
Click to expand...
Really?!?! I intensely dislike his chapters, I don't mind them at the start where it's about the Kingsmoot but anything after that I dislike.
Poimandres said:
What?! Victarion is awesome. With his pork-crackling arm and whore drowning. I actually like most of the Greyjoys.
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I like all of the Greyjoys except the Damphair. Some people hate Victarion because he's an idiot and not that complex but not every character has to be complex, he just does what he wants and at least his chapters have a good amount of action in them
ZeroRay said:
The theme of cannibalism throughout ADWD was very subtle and well done.

Because of that, I'm expecting the show to shove that shit right in our face.
Click to expand...
Wyman Manderly: 'Hey, Ramsay and Roose, have some of this pie!'
(Cuts to Pie which has a body part sticking out of it)
King Boo said:
sometimes when i lurk in the t.v. series, i get shocked at how powerful ned is. excellent general, and excellent swordsman that could have defeated jaime.

i wonder what their reaction will be after the wedding.
Click to expand...

I'm really interested in how they'll do the episode, will it be a whole ep of it a la The Blackwater episode or will it be a normal ep until the last 30 mins say. If they do it like the blackwater ep I'm worried people will look at it and wonder why they're devoting so much time to it, something must happen. I'm also hoping the subtle hints are kept subtle, Grey wind should be aggressive but not over the top as to make the viewer wonder what's going on.
I'd also love it if they have the Catelyn line about her hair.
 
E

ezrarh

Member
Aiii said:
Picturing a scene where Frey's are brutally shoved into a giant meat grinder right now.
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I can see it now. Davos comes to visit then Manderly takes him down to the food prep area before taking him into hiding. They bust into a song. Grinds a few Freys up Story of Ricky style. Next scene is them all eating food with the Boltons. Or something like that.
 
M

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
viciouskillersquirrel said:
Why? It's not like it's that important a part of her character. They could call her Tyffanie (per GRRM's penchant for weird spellings of ordinary names) and her character would lose nothing.

Asha/Osha confusion would reign supreme among show viewers.
Click to expand...
It was unnecessary. Asha does not sound like Osha all that much. If you want to go down that route, Yara kinda sounds like Arya. But they barely even named Osha in the show anyway, and I don't think the TV viewers would confuse the two characters based on the name.
 
D

Dysun

Member
I would be surprised if 80% of the people who watch the show could name Osha or AshaYara without saying Bran's wildling or Theon's sister lol
 
L

Levi

Banned
Wh0 N0se said:
I'm really interested in how they'll do the episode, will it be a whole ep of it a la The Blackwater episode or will it be a normal ep until the last 30 mins say. If they do it like the blackwater ep I'm worried people will look at it and wonder why they're devoting so much time to it, something must happen. I'm also hoping the subtle hints are kept subtle, Grey wind should be aggressive but not over the top as to make the viewer wonder what's going on.
I'd also love it if they have the Catelyn line about her hair.
Click to expand...

The episode summary confirms
that the red wedding is not the entire episode. Looks like a "normal episode" that touched on multiple storylines.
 
C

Conor 419

Banned
What I want from RW

- Major focus of the episode
- Robb's naming of Jon as heir NEEDS to be dealt with
- Talisa to NOT be a spy
- Some fucking backpeddling on the handling of Robb's army. The Karstarks composed half of his force, WHAT?
- And on that note, we'd better fucking see The Greaton, Dacey Mormont, Owen Norry and Robin Flint on top of Wendel Manderly, this was a devestation to the Starks AND their bannermen. This needs to be emphasised
- Robb needs to go down fighting, if not at least being surrounded by his loyalest bannermen doing so themselves (Smalljon table, Greatjon going mental etc)
- "Grey Wind" being Robb's last words, AND the implication of Robb warging into Grey Wind and fucking up like, 11 Freys, before dying once more.
- Rains of Castamere

I'm going to be disappointed, I know it.
 
pr0cs

pr0cs

Member
cubicle47b said:
Victarion is the best Greyjoy.
Click to expand...

I agree with this, though Theon/Reek was the best part of Dance imo.

Victarion is paper thin in terms of complexity but what's wrong with having a character that is generally a badass who just acts? The book series really doesn't have a lot of characters like that to be honest.

It was one of the reasons I like Areo Hotah as well
 
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