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[John Dunbar]

There's also the coincidence that Jon's, Dany's and Tyrion's mothers all died in childbirth. Squeezing them dragons out must be tough for the body. And if Tyrion was a Targ, it would also mean that both Tyrion and Jaime killed each other's fathers.

Personally though, I think Martin has just intentionally toyed with the idea, but it won't actually turn out to be true. I also think the twins would be more likely to be secret Targs than Tyrion. Him being Tywins only legit child would be kind of interesting.

 

[Shahadan]

There's also the coincidence that Jon's, Dany's and Tyrion's mothers all died in childbirth. Squeezing them dragons out must be tough for the body. And if Tyrion was a Targ, it would also mean that both Tyrion and Jaime killed each other's fathers.

Personally though, I think Martin has intentionally toyed with the idea, but it won't actually turn out to be true. I also think the twins would be more likely to be secret Targs than Tyrion. Him being Tywins only legit child would be kind of interesting.

Jon Dany and Tyrion also had shitty childhoods and were all outcast overshadowed by their siblings. They all rose to prestigious positions and are all leaders, doomed leaders that want to do too good and fail. They have a lot in common.

The twins being Targs would be interesting but it would strip them of the whole aspect of wanting to be LIKE Targs while not being ones, and then there wouldn't be any Lannister left anyway.


On the other matter, I expect Oberyn to have a larger presence on the show since they'll probably have to (considering what is left) and they'll want us to root for him and make a Ned Stark effect :lol:
It's also the occasion to talk about the Lannister and Targ backstory a bit while introducing Dorne.

 

[Moff]

Where do people get those ideas from.

decades of waiting for new books

 

[Last Hearth]

Tyrion as secret Targ is a silly theory because it can never be proven or disproved.

Anyone who would knows anything about it is dead.

So it will never come up within the story, it will be just be a dangling possibility that never goes any where.

 

[lingiii]

Twins being Targaryens would be a bummer at least as much as Tyrion. That we barely know that the king wanted to bone Tywin's wife doesn't really feel like either of these things have been established enough to warrant the big reveal. Plus everything about the Lannisters that makes them individually interesting goes back to their relationship with their family. Either way would bum me out.

At least Tyrion has white hair and one targaryenish eye.

Tyrion as secret Targ is a silly theory because it can never be proven or disproved.

Anyone who would knows anything about it is dead.

So it will never come up within the story, it will be just be a dangling possibility that never goes any where.

The Howland remembers.

 

[Dysun]

Tyrion as secret Targ is a silly theory because it can never be proven or disproved.

Anyone who would knows anything about it is dead.

So it will never come up within the story, it will be just be a dangling possibility that never goes any where.

I think Bran as the tree-Internet makes that all moot. If George wants us to see something in the past, he clearly has a capable tool of doing it now.
Not that I'm in favor of it

 

[John Dunbar]

Tyrion as secret Targ is a silly theory because it can never be proven or disproved.

Anyone who would knows anything about it is dead.

So it will never come up within the story, it will be just be a dangling possibility that never goes any where.

Martin can easily work around that, if he wants to. Just one possibility would be Gerion Lannister. So far he has played no real role, so one can wonder what is his purpose in the story, and why he was mentioned for the first time in A Storm of Swords. If Howland Reed is supposed to be the exposition guy for Jon's parents, perhaps Gerion would be Tyrion's.

I don't believe any of the Lannisters are secret Targs, but there is more than enough in the text that I would not be surprised one bit, and it wouldn't feel like Martin just pulled it out of his beard. If that's where the story is going, he has certainly laid the foundation for it.

 

[Shahadan]

Tyrion as secret Targ is a silly theory because it can never be proven or disproved.

Anyone who would knows anything about it is dead.

So it will never come up within the story, it will be just be a dangling possibility that never goes any where.

Dany's dragons will probably know. Or if Tyrion doesn't get burned by them, as Quentyn tried to prove for himself iirc.
I guess its one of the point of Tyrion joining Dany.

 

[John Dunbar]

Dany's dragons will probably know. Or if Tyrion doesn't get burned by them, as Quentyn tried to prove for himself iirc.
I guess its one of the point of Tyrion joining Dany.

It might also be that Dany will mistakenly assume Tyrion is a Targaryen, if her dragons like him. Maybe she jumps to conclusions after that story from Barristan about Aerys lusting after Tyrion's mom.

 

[Wh0 N0se]

The Mountain is a badass though, if it wasn't for the fact that it was awful that he killed Oberyn his reply when he killed him was epic.

'Elia of Dorne, I killed her screaming whelp. Then I raped her. Then I smashed her fucking head in.'


Every time I read that I curse Oberyn for stepping to close, what an idiot.

 

[badcrumble]

That fight is going to be so lame with the guy who played The Mountain in Season 2.

Who hasn't appeared in Season 3, by the way. Maybe they'll bring back the much bigger dude from the 1st season for his appearance in Season 4?

 

[Shahadan]

It might also be that Dany will mistakenly assume Tyrion is a Targaryen, if her dragons like him. Maybe she jumps to conclusions after that story from Barristan about Aerys lusting after Tyrion's mom.

That would be an interesting way to make things happen. I kinda want that now :lol:

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I think the Red Wedding was more devestating to me, even if I was not as invested in Rob and Caitlan as I was Tyrion. The whole independence of the North died at the wedding.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Tyrion as a secret Targ is more offensive to me than a female Varys

Every time I see the words "secret Targ" in this thread I laugh.

 

[electroshockwave]

The biggest contributor to Robb's defeat was sending Theon back to the Iron Islands. Theon was originally taken as a ward (aka hostage) to ensure the Greyjoys would never rebel again. By sending Theon back to his father, they did...exactly what anyone would expect them to do. Plus, Theon's invasion of Winterfell basically sealed Robb's fate. It forced him to hastily rush back to the north and through the crossing again. Essentially Robb's downfall was caused by a variety of factors, but I feel like letting Theon go was what started it all.

Also, somewhat unrelated, but I've always wondered if Melisandre actually could have prevented the wildfire from destroying much of Stannis' fleet. She claims as much.

Also, without Theon taking Winterfell Bran and Rickon would never have been "killed". Catelyn and Robb wouldn't have released Jaime or hooked up with Jeyne in their time of grief. Even the rift with the Karstarks might not have happened if Jaime wasn't released and the Lannister cousins weren't murdered in his place.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Also, without Theon taking Winterfell Bran and Rickon would never have been "killed". Catelyn and Robb wouldn't have released Jaime or hooked up with Jeyne in their time of grief. Even the rift with the Karstarks might not have happened if Jaime wasn't released and the Lannister cousins weren't murdered in his place.

You could take practically any event and justifiably say it caused practically any other event.

 

[CitizenVectron]

You could take practically any event and justifiably say it caused practically any other event.

If Hot Pie hadn't been so fat and slowly Arya down all the time then maybe the Hound would have gotten her earlier and they would have arrived at the wedding sooner and the Hound would have smelled trouble and prevented the massacre and Robb would have ended up surviving and the Hound would have been made Lord of the Twins and then Robb would have been King and Catelyn would have died anyway because no one likes her but Robb makes Jon Snow Lord of Winterfell anyway and everything would have worked out.

Damn Hot Pie.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

You could take practically any event and justifiably say it caused practically any other event.

Perhaps, but some things have their own momentum and might reasonably occur anyway, and others simply would not happen. Theon's dominoes fall into the latter category. Sure, Robb might have still botched the wedding, but Jamie wouldn't have been freed, and the Red Wedding would have died in the planning stages at best.

 

[lingiii]

If Hot Pie hadn't been so fat and slowly Arya down all the time then maybe the Hound would have gotten her earlier and they would have arrived at the wedding sooner and the Hound would have smelled trouble and prevented the massacre and Robb would have ended up surviving and the Hound would have been made Lord of the Twins and then Robb would have been King and Catelyn would have died anyway because no one likes her but Robb makes Jon Snow Lord of Winterfell anyway and everything would have worked out.

Damn Hot Pie.

George looks like Hot Pie all grown up. shitheaded like him, too.

 

[CitizenVectron]

George looks like Hot Pie all grown up. shitheaded like him, too.

Lannister men: "What are the lot of ya? What can you do?"

Gendry: "I'm a blacksmith."

Arya: "I can be a servant."

Hot Pie: "I'm ... a marine biologist."

 

[Dysun]

Architect for Vandelay industries!

 

[Morrigan Stark]

-there must be 3 Targs. Assuming that either Aegon or jon isn't one, Tyrion is the only candidate

No. There are 3 heads to the dragon, but they are not necessarily Targs, according to GRRM.

 

[tirminyl]

What purpose does Female Varys (I shall dub this entity Ferys) pretending to be a man serve exactly?

I think it was more of his/her long game. It is described of his use of perfumes and powders, and how he is good with disguises and it could be to his time as an actor. What better role to play than an effeminate man? That's what made people come up with that theory.

The other is that he is a skilled fighter but plays an effeminate man to throw people off. How else would he be able to survive on the streets for as long as he did?

In the end - These theories mostly come from the boredom of waiting 6 years between books.

 

[John Dunbar]

No. There are 3 heads to the dragon, but they are not necessarily Targs, according to GRRM.

Of course he'll say that, since it's not even clear what "three heads of the dragon" means at this point. It's not necessarily dragon riders. But if they were, it's not like Martin would flat-out say they must be Targaryens.

 

[bengraven]

Where does it say they have to be Targs riding the dragons?

 

[Morrigan Stark]

It doesn't, that's my point. ^^

 

[bengraven]

It doesn't, that's my point. ^^

I didn't think so.

 

[Pollux]

Just read a theory claiming that Roose Bolton is the descendent of an Other. Some of the shit these people come up with...

 

[John Dunbar]

Just read a theory claiming that Roose Bolton is the descendent of an Other. Some of the shit these people come up with...

You should read some of the conclusions drawn from the book Roose burned at Harrenhal.

 

[Pollux]

You should read some of the conclusions drawn from the book Roose burned at Harrenhal.

Been a while since I did my re-read of the series...what?

 

[John Dunbar]

Been a while since I did my re-read of the series...what?

When Roose was at Harrenhal and Arya went to his room, he was reading an old book and then burned it in the fireplace. There are no real clues what he was reading, so you can imagine the theories people have come up with.

 

[Pollux]

When Roose was at Harrenhal and Arya went to his room, he was reading an old book and then burned it in the fireplace. There are no real clues what he was reading, so you can imagine the theories people have come up with.

This is what happens when it takes the author 5-6 years per book. We get crackpot theories like this.

 

[Judderman]

Welcome to the TWOW waiting room. Hey, did you know that Meera Reed is actually Jon Snow's twin sister? You have to read between the lines.

 

[Pollux]

http://paranoidnews.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Tin-Foil-Room-e1279268711126.jpg[IMG]

Welcome to the TWOW waiting room. Hey, did you know that Meera Reed is actually Jon Snow's twin sister? You have to read [I]between the lines.[/i][/QUOTE]

I've been in the waiting room for a LONG time haha. and I actually did know that. But did you know that Tyrion is actually the bastard son of Aerys and for his revenge he raped Aerys's actual wife and that resulted in Dany! That's the REAL reason Viserys didn't think his sister was a TRUE dragon

 

[Judderman]

I've been in the waiting room for a LONG time haha. and I actually did know that. But did you know that Tyrion is actually the bastard son of Aerys and for his revenge he raped Aerys's actual wife and that resulted in Dany! That's the REAL reason Viserys didn't think his sister was a TRUE dragon

Stahp it.

 

[CrashBandicoot]

I think the Red Wedding was more devestating to me, even if I was not as invested in Rob and Caitlan as I was Tyrion. The whole independence of the North died at the wedding.

I was the same, and I didn't even see it coming, no matter how much people claim it was obvious. It was a very powerfully written part, I actually had to put the book down for a little while to let it sink in, even though I didn't really like Catelyn and was a little indifferent to Robb at the time. In my devastated state, I actually thought Arya might have died too... I needed to lie down.

 

[Pollux]

http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/torture-scene.gif[IMG]

Stahp it.[/QUOTE]

THE TIMELINE ADDS UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Victarion]

Someone in the No Book spoiler thread think Episode 9 might be about Robb seizing the Casterly Rock. hahaha oh wow.

 

[Aiii]

Someone in the No Book spoiler thread think Episode 9 might be about Robb seizing the Casterly Rock. hahaha oh wow.

To be fair, that person hasn't been paying much attention, because I think the show has been pretty clear that he was heading up to the Twins for the wedding.

-No, that's unfair, he probably doesn't know the map as well as bookreaders do.

I think I'm looking forward more to reading the No Book thread after the episode than the episode itself.

 

[Big-E]

The duel to me was devastating because of the Red Wedding. The audience needed a win and the win was there and it was taking away right at the last minute.

 

[Monocle]

Someone in the No Book spoiler thread think Episode 9 might be about Robb seizing the Casterly Rock. hahaha oh wow.

I love some of the offhand comments in there. A couple episodes ago people were saying things like "Oh, hmm, the Freys didn't seem that mad at Robb after all."

LOL. Good times ahead.

 

[FootballFan]

When I read the Red Wedding for the first time. A smile/smirk appeared on my face, like surely I mis-understood something. So I just casually re-read the last 6 pages of the chapter again, hoping that somewhere along those letters that formed words, I might find some hope that this was just a bad dream one of the characters was having. But no.
Damn.Shit.Fuck.GRRM.

Excuse the profanity, bad grammar and/or spelling. Fuck. The terrible memories are flooding back.

THE KING IN THE NORTH...THE KING IN THE NORTH...THE KING IN T.........................!

 

[Monocle]

When I read the Red Wedding for the first time. A smile/smirk appeared on my face, like surely I mis-understood something. So I just casually re-read the last 6 pages of the chapter again, hoping that somewhere along those letters that formed words, I might find some hope that this was just a bad dream one of the characters was having. But no.
Damn.Shit.Fuck.GRRM.

Excuse the profanity, bad grammar and/or spelling. Fuck. The terrible memories are flooding back.

THE KING IN THE NORTH...THE KING IN THE NORTH...THE KING IN T.........................!

I felt a huge sense of tension all the way up to the climax of that chapter. Something was seriously off about the way Walder Frey received Robb and Catelyn. Once the laws of hospitality were brought up, I knew something horrible was in store, but I still didn't expect such a slaughter. I hope the show captures that sense of foreboding and paces the scene effectively. The lead-up is the key to making that betrayal as powerful as it is.

 

[Aiii]

When I read the Red Wedding for the first time. A smile/smirk appeared on my face, like surely I mis-understood something. So I just casually re-read the last 6 pages of the chapter again, hoping that somewhere along those letters that formed words, I might find some hope that this was just a bad dream one of the characters was having. But no.
Damn.Shit.Fuck.GRRM.

Excuse the profanity, bad grammar and/or spelling. Fuck. The terrible memories are flooding back.

THE KING IN THE NORTH...THE KING IN THE NORTH...THE KING IN T.........................!

Poor guys.

 

[Trojita]

This thread spoiled the RW for me before I got to it.

I accidentally posted in here, didn't realize it at the time that I posted in the wrong thread, and had this thread in my subscriptions. One day I clicked on it to the last current page and someone mentioned the wolf face sewn onto Robb's face at the very top of the page. I did a wtf and then had to look it up for clarification.

 

[FootballFan]

I felt a huge sense of tension all the way up to the climax of that chapter. Something was seriously off about the way Walder Frey received Robb and Catelyn. Once the laws of hospitality were brought up, I knew something horrible was in store, but I still didn't expect such a slaughter. I hope the show captures that sense of foreboding and paces the scene effectively. The lead-up is the key to making that betrayal as powerful as it is.

Absolutely agree. This is the pinnacle of the series(novels and show) to date, to me at least. Benioff and Weiss have the opportunity to blow everybody away, I sincerely hope they do the Red Wedding justice. I got goosebumps when Daenerys said 'Dracarys'. I need to feel dread and anger when Roose says 'Jaime Lannister sends his regards' and twists the sword. Also Catelyn pleading for her hair not be cut, should bring out some feels. Execution must be perfect.(no pun intended)

The Freys...ugh. Another slice of pie please.

The reactions of the show viewers will be amazing. Robb is the hero and protagonist at this point. When I read the books my allegiance lay with Ned first. Followed by Robb and lastly Jon.For TV viewers I expect the same order to be honest. They lost Ned, so naturally they support the one who will avenge him. Robb. Tears will flow. Some will need counseling.
It is known.

 

[Basileus777]

I don't think they've done quite a good job of setting up just why the Freys are so angry. I wonder if TV viewers are going to see the Red Wedding and wonder, wait, why did they do that? Then again, I don't think they've handled Robb's storyline particularly well heading back to last season. The show watchers I've spoken to don't seem to care about Robb much. He's just that guy who sits around in tents a lot and complains.

 

[Aiii]

I don't think they've done quite a good job of setting up just why the Freys are so angry. I wonder how if TV viewers are going to see the Red Wedding and wonder, wait, why did they do that? Then again, I don't think they've handled Robb's storyline particularly well heading back to last season. The show watchers I've spoken to don't seem to care about Robb much. He's just that guy who sits around in tents a lot and complains.

I don't remember the books pointing out anymore than dissapointment either, and characters stating how you wouldn't want to cross Walder Frey, that's why the RW came as such a surprise. I think the show build-up is pretty much similar.

Besides, Robb isn't even a POV character in the books, I think he's gotten more exposure in the series than he got in the books, where we don't see him for a long time and only actually get to know him through Catelyn.

 

[Basileus777]

I don't remember the books pointing out anymore than dissapointment either, and characters stating how you wouldn't want to cross Walder Frey, that's why the RW came as such a surprise. I think the show build-up is pretty much similar.

Besides, Robb isn't even a POV character in the books, I think he's gotten more exposure in the series than he got in the books, where we don't see him for a long time and only actually get to know him through Catelyn.

In the books we care about Robb because we are in in his family members heads all the time. That isn't the case in the show. It's really Cat and seeing things through her eyes that makes the Red Wedding work, she's barely been in this show lately. And we saw Robb's romance with Talisa happen, but otherwise he's not really on screen more than he is in the books. Thanks to the budget, we haven't even seen any of his battles.

 

[Steelyuhas]

I don't think they've done quite a good job of setting up just why the Freys are so angry. I wonder if TV viewers are going to see the Red Wedding and wonder, wait, why did they do that? Then again, I don't think they've handled Robb's storyline particularly well heading back to last season. The show watchers I've spoken to don't seem to care about Robb much. He's just that guy who sits around in tents a lot and complains.

I think they've done a fine job at that, they've made it clear that Frey is a stubborn and prickly man and that Robb was supposed to marry one of his daughter's.

Where they haven't done a great job with Robb is portray that he is an excellent tactician. I read stuff from viewers and critics that haven't read the books that Robb is an awful tactician, which isn't why he's losing the war at this point. The fact that they never explained in the slightest what he was doing last season and the fallout of that was a bit damaging to his character I think.

I think the TV character and think Richard Madden is great as him, but they've missed some opportunities with the character.