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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**

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C

cubicle47b

Member
It has a lot of problems. His interpretation of certain events is wrong like the show proving Bloodraven is working with the Others because his flock of ravens show up shortly before an Other arrives (it couldn't be a warning that danger was approaching).

He has bad knowledge of the ancienct history of Westeros (Why did the children end on the wrong side of wall if they fought the others together with the first men? Maybe you should try reading the Children of the Forest entry on the Westeros wiki before speculating so badly).

And of course trying to mash everything, in one way or another, into Norse mythology is dumb. GRRM may very well have been influenced by Norse mythology in some way just as he was influenced by any number of other things. To think the entire thing ties back to Norse mythology and the story will play out the same way is an enormous (and dumb) leap.
 
L

Last Hearth

Member
i_am_not_jon_ames said:
That made complete and total sense. So much so, that I feel like I know how the saga is going to play out now (in broad strokes of course). All I need/want now is for GRRM make Jaime Lannister the savior of humanity.
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His analysis is not that great. I could write a similar analysis drawing parallels between to War of the Roses to ASOIAF (Stark=York, Lannister=Lancaster, Sansa = Elizabeth York, Aegon=Henry VII, Tyrion = Richard III etc, etc)

I am sure GRRM pulled stuff from Norse mythology, but he drew from a myriad of sources and to predict the story based on one source is way too simplistic.
 
C

Chris R

Member
Last Hearth said:
A lot of people in that thread don't watch the show until later, you should really wait till the next day.
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Uh no? As soon as anything airs on the East Coast feed it is good to go. That's how no-spoiler TV show threads have always worked.

Not saying that gloating over in the no book spoilers thread is something that I'll be doing. I WILL be laughing at the non-book reader who watches the show with me though.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Basileus777 said:
No, even if they weren't they still would have abandoned Robb after he betrayed them. Robb would have just been stuck in the south and been defeated by the Lannisters/Tyrells. Robb was pretty much doomed the minute he accepted a crown. His only hope from then on was that the rest of the realm would stay fragmented indefinitely because the Riverlands are pretty much indefensible. if Robb was smart he would have bent the knee to Renly, or if he was principled, he would have backed Stannis. He made the worst possible choice.
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Nah, I think he was doomed the minute Edmure blocked Tywin's entry into the Westerlands.

Also he tried to broker an alliance with Renly, but then Renly went and got himself murdered by a shadow.
 
D

Dysun

Member
Spoilers are good to go as soon as it airs on the East Coast, and I'd hardly call it gloating more like a playful joke.
 
L

lingiii

Banned
Dysun said:
Spoilers are good to go as soon as it airs on the East Coast, and I'd hardly call it gloating more like a playful joke.
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image.php
 
F

Forsaken82

Member
Krelian91 said:
Ironically enough, I believe that house Stark's greatest mistakes happen just when they forsake honor for their own personal feelings. (and a lot of stupidity.)

See Eddard telling Cersei about his discovery and Robb marrying Jeyne Westerling. Honor had nothing to do with neither.
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You could certainly argue honor with the telling of Cersei, but it was made very clear that his marriage to Jeyne was because he always considered the prospect of fathering a bastard to be a dishonor so yeah, its honor that forces him to marry Jeyne as that was more important to him than a broken vow.
 
I

iamblades

Member
Last Hearth said:
His analysis is not that great. I could write a similar analysis drawing parallels between to War of the Roses to ASOIAF (Stark=York, Lannister=Lancaster, Sansa = Elizabeth York, Aegon=Henry VII, Tyrion = Richard III etc, etc)

I am sure GRRM pulled stuff from Norse mythology, but he drew from a myriad of sources and to predict the story based on one source is way too simplistic.
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Yeah, and there is basically no actual justification for his theories in the actual books, the children of the forest have been presented as the most peaceful group there is, and it doesn't really fit with all the stories (that we have no reason to doubt) that they were allies with the first men against the white walkers.

Which is not to say that the whole thing isn't being told by an unreliable narrative and the children were just tricking everyone all along. But it would be kind of a cheap reveal if there were no indications ahead of time.

Besides, if I'm not mistaken, the CotF and the white walkers were more influenced by Irish/Celtic mythology, not Norse. Even then it is not a direct adaptation of any previous mythology, so to speculate on future plots based on that doesn't really work.
 
S

Snake

Member
Moff said:
read his other blog entry. its probably what will happen. jaime seems to be the sigurd of a song of ice and fire.

and the events in ASOIAF were set in motion by jaime pushing bran out of the window, and it will probably end between the two again
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Well all I know is that now we need some hilarious fanart of Book 7 Jaime pushing Tree-Bran out of a cave window, or something.

Filed under "ultimate spoiler image."
 
C

Crisco

Banned
The Starks were always facing long odds, from the moment Cat took Tyrion prisoner. Had he not married Jeyne and lost the Frey's, his best bet would have been to press on into the westerlands and put Lannisport under siege. If he did it right, maybe he could have hijacked the Lannister fleet and sailed to the north, bypassing the Neck entirely and taking back Winterfell. By then, winter will have set in and would have been impossible for the Lannisters/Tyrells to get a large enough army into the North to make Robb bend the knee.
 
L

Last Hearth

Member
Forsaken82 said:
You could certainly argue honor with the telling of Cersei, but it was made very clear that his marriage to Jeyne was because he always considered the prospect of fathering a bastard to be a dishonor so yeah, its honor that forces him to marry Jeyne as that was more important to him than a broken vow.
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It wasn't honor, it was mercy, they are not the same thing. People talk about Ned all about honor, to me that is a complete misread of his character. He *always* puts mercy ahead of honor when the 2 are in conflict.
 
M

Mission

Member
iamblades said:
Which is not to say that the whole thing isn't being told by an unreliable narrative and the children were just tricking everyone all along. But it would be kind of a cheap reveal if there were no indications ahead of time.
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This is kind of how I felt. If the plot is this complex could it really be resolved in 1 or 2 more books at the pace of his writing? People felt strongly enough already about whether his existing mythos could be resolved in that length, let alone adding the resolution of some underlying mythical battle.

One thing though... reading his summary really made me realize I need to re-read ADWD and possibly even AFFC again soon. I was clearly rushing through the first time even though I thought I was slowing down for the Bran chapters.
 
L

lingiii

Banned
Mission said:
This is kind of how I felt. If the plot is this complex could it really be resolved in 1 or 2 more books at the pace of his writing? People felt strongly enough already about whether his existing mythos could be resolved in that length, let alone adding the resolution of some underlying mythical battle.
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I can't even fathom how he gets out of it in three going real-time (and he goes slower than realtime with the geography split...).

Without a "and then Dany marched her whole host to Westeros and nobody died and it was totally chill" chapter eliding months and months of time, there's just no way. I guess that's assuming she comes to Westeros, but shit.
oh fuck what if she never makes it to Westeros and was a Red Herring all along? Jon, Jaime, Howland 3 heads of the dragon confirmed.
 
C

curlyfriski

Banned
Trasher said:
Not sure if serious or trolling, but yes, that's why the flame was blue.
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But it's still a flame, and flames are the Walkers' bane. Anyways, just because a fire is blue doesn't mean it's cold, and I don't see any other evidence in that passage that would point to the voice being connected with the others. I would attribute it to some other supernatural being.
 
L

Lkr

Member
Finished ADwD and now my watch is ended

I pray to the old gods and the new that Stannis is still alive and Ramsay was fucking with Jon. Speaking of which I hope Jon is fine, but yeah, don't see him surviving.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
I'm still hoping for Jon to somehow end up with the Others somehow, maybe reunited with Uncle Benjen. Some thing where he leads the Others in battle as the antagonist would be pretty cool.
 
Moff

Moff

Member
I think its fairly possible that jon wont come back the way he was. maybe as a vengeful zombie like stonehart or even something - or someone - completely different.
 
J

Joe Shlabotnik

Banned
Teasing / giffing in the show thread afterwards is probably risking a banning, especially if it gets flooded with book reader posts. Even if one person posting "the book thread sends its regards" is awesome and possibly worth it.

Also, that post from jaxword where in the middle of a rant about people spoiling things with coy hints he unknowingly spoiled Robb's death with a coy hint.
 
T

tino

Banned
Moff said:
I think its fairly possible that jon wont come back the way he was. maybe as a vengeful zombie like stonehart or even something - or someone - completely different.
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I disagree, that would make his character arch make no sense.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
It's an upgrade and it makes sense, this is basically the community thread for ASOIAF fans. I'm actually glad they went around and fixed the OT community, before this it was completely and utterly arbitrary what threads were sent here.
 
T

The Anti-Monitor

Banned
BertramCooper said:
So Talisa is gonna die, right?

I know Jeyne didn't, but I can't see Talisa getting out of the RW alive.
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Well, she's going to be there.

Awful Lannister spy theory or not, I can't see Walder Frey letting her go out alive, considering she's the cause of it all.

I read somewhere she's the first one to go, actually, but dunno if it's confirmed.
 
B

BertramCooper

Banned
The Anti-Monitor said:
Well, she's going to be there.

Awful Lannister spy theory or not, I can't see Walder Frey letting her go out alive, considering she's the cause of it all.

I read somewhere she's the first one to go, actually, but dunno if it's confirmed.
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I don't buy the spy theories. They seem really outlandish, even with Talisa's somewhat murky background.

And honestly, I've been convinced Talisa is a goner since they revealed her pregnancy. I can't imagine D&D want to mess around with a living heir of Robb Stark. Methinks it was just a way to add an extra pinch of tragedy.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
If Talisa is at the wedding, it makes absolutely no sense for her to survive. If she lives, the writers fucked up because there's no way Frey would spare her. If she's a Lannister spy, why would the Freys know about it? And if anything, that knowledge would only make them angry at the Lannisters.
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Talisa should die, I agree.

The way the character is portrayed and involved in the story, keeping her alive would make no sense. How do you explain where the character goes after this, there's no POV stuff, so it would make sense we wouldn't just stop seeing her in the next seasons if she remains alive.

So yeah, I'm expecting her to be murdered along with the rest of them, unless they have other plans with the character, but I doubt that. I guess capturing her would be an option, but why do that?
 
R

Reyne

Member
Even if she is a spy, they might well kill her, rape her, whatever. Its not like the Frey would be a part of the Lannister honeypot, if that were the case. The only thing Walder Frey knows, is that he will be given a pardon by Tywin if he takes out Robb. And Talisa's presence at the twins is a slight, which is why in the books Robb refuses to bring Jeyne there. Of course, the series has cut down on those sort of subtleties.
 
T

The Anti-Monitor

Banned
Basileus777 said:
They'd do it through a scene with Tywin, the same way they hint at the Spicer's plotting in the books.
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But what purpose could that make?

Tywin doesn't need to be any more all-powerful than he already is. And how much of an idiot could Talisa be to get pregnant and still risk her life going to the Twins?

I dunno, I really dislike that theory. Seems dumb as hell.
 
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