Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Poor Ned can't stay in one piece.
A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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Poor Ned can't stay in one piece.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
You will have to wait another week, they're skipping Memorial Day weekend.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
I was similar. I had the idea of the red wedding involving one of the Lannisters because of red being one of their house colours. So during the Tyrion/Sansa wedding, I actually kept expecting for Joffrey to rape Sansa.
It came and went and then I expected it to happen at Joffrey and Margaery's wedding (Sansa getting raped I mean), so when Robb and Cat both died I was like lol wut.
IAmtheFMan
Member
I was completely blind-sided by the Red Wedding. The signs are totally there from the HotU, the leeches and so much more, but I remember being so focused on Arya getting there and just meeting ANYONE from her family that I ignored all the signs the first time around, and yes I went in with the naive thought that "the Starks never win, they're due for one!"
Another theory I've heard is Jon Snow is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son (which I kinda believe). That's why three of the King's Guard were protecting her at Tower of Joy when Ned and Howland rescued her. They should have been beside their King or the Prince...and Ned found her lying in a bed of blood saying "Promise me Ned"....and then Ned brings home Jon.
Worst theory ever. Definitely not true.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
lol it's like some star wars fanfic.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
That doesn't make any sense. I don't know where you heard this but its crazy left-field stuff.
Nonsense. We are talking about credible theories, like Varys being a merlin and Tyrion being a Targaryen here.
Or Ned being the hooded man and Hodor azor ahai reborn.
Captain Blood
Member
It is like a snark tornado just blew through here haha.
The Anti-Monitor
Banned
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I think that's enough, now
hahah wow... don't talk about Jon Snow theories. haha...I'll just say.. the dragon has three heads...Dany, probably Aegon/Young Griff.. and someone else... and Dany had a vision of a blue rose growing out of a wall of ice in the House of the Undying....Rhaegar gave Lyanna a crown of blue winter roses after the joust...and Jon Snow and ice wall is pretty self explanitory..
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
You guys are mean.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Okay, okay joke's over. Jon being Rhaegar and Lyanna's son is considered by practically everyone to be basically canon.
To be honest I think I did the same with Arya, when the slaughter started I had to go back and re read a few pages. As you say blinded by hope.
Robb's death didn't freak me out. But Catelyn's did. Going insane, maggots, clawing her shit up, her throat being cut? I did not see that coming at all and it was brutal. I thought they would have taken her prisoner.
I knew something bad would happen at the wedding because Walder Frey is a ridiculous douchebag who telegraphs his bad intentions with every single "heh". And the way Catelyn kept on harping on Robb to drink wine and eat salt because it would make him totally safe from danger was overly emphasized (not to mention ridiculously naive.)
But yeah, the brutality of Catelyn's death got me more than Ned's beheading. Ned's dying just left me confused because I had misunderstood what the entire series was about when I read GoT. I thought it was about Ned taking over as regent after Robert's death and being caught in an endless series of power struggles between the different houses (and being undermined by his own counselors) while attempting to hold the kingdom together without the true authority of a king. Couldn't have ended up being any further away from that.
The Varys merman theory is pretty much the funniest thing ever.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
Yeah the punch of the Red Wedding is diminished somewhat by Martin's heavy-handed foreshadowing. But what mostly makes the Red Wedding is the brutality of the betrayal(s).
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
"Ned loves my hair" is probably one of the biggest gut punches of that entire book. Even after Robb died, I still thought that Catelyn was going to survive and wind up as a prisoner. Her death was far more shocking and upsetting than Robb's was.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
I was kinda disappointed Martin used the same bit with Jon. The moment he locked Ghost up (after being warned by Mel to keep him close) you knew shit was about to hit the fan. If Jon had had any sense he would have locked the fucking pig somewhere and not his prescient wolf.
Yeah, that was a pretty derp moment...
Pollux
Member
I would agree with this if it weren't for the fact that GRRM completely ruined the importance of the scene by bringing her back as some psycho zombie a few pages later.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
seeing as she has barely anything resembling humanity left in her, it doesn't really cheapen anything but just makes it more messed up. i don't know why martin kept her alive, storywise, but her just remaining dead would have been a kinder faith. it's really only a matter of time until someone puts her out of her misery.
The Anti-Monitor
Banned
Lady Stoneheart is so fucking dumb. Alongside the whole Meeren stuff, worst part so far to me.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
It was an odd choice by Martin to have the seeming deaths of Robb, Catelyn and Arya pretty much back-to-back, only to have two of them turn up again later. I think that was the point where he exhausted his "OMG just killed that guy/gal" trope.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I never for a second thought Arya was dead.
Pollux
Member
It does cheapen it because she's not technically dead. Not really alive either, but not dead. She still is, at the most basic level, the same character with some head trauma.
Not to mention I fucking hate Catelyn. Literally despise her. One of the dumbest characters I've ever seen in any medium. Every time she opened her mouth I wanted to slap her - every idea she ever had was just so fucking stupid. Not to mention that her idiocy is the whole reason that the realm went to war in the first place - kidnapping Tyrion.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
I don't think too many people did, to be honest. Which makes me wonder why Martin tried to insinuate that she was.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
I actually have never read anything else by Martin, but it just seems to be a part of his style, probably because of all the TV stuff he's done. The writing is very episodic, and that means cliffhangers all over the place. One of the first things that happened in the books was Bran being tossed out of the window, but turned out he was "only" paralyzed. The fake deaths have been there since the beginning, and I doubt they're going anywhere.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
Man this really started grating on me toward the end of SoS. After rereading the series I realize now that it's always been there. The only difference for me was that initially Martin wove much tighter narratives between the chapters, whereas in later books it feels less like an interwoven story and more like a few dozen stories happening simultaneously but mostly independent of each other. Of course this could also be due to the growing geographical distance between plot points.
To this day GoT still amazes me with how it manages to dunk a reader head-first into a massive world and yet still maintain a pretty brisk, eventful pace with its storytelling. None of the chapters feel wasted and I never once groaned at a PoV switch like I started doing toward the end of SoS.
ToyMachine228
Member
I do too. But when you hate a character because of their actions or the way they act or think, that's usually good writing. We're not talking Andrea from The Walking Dead television show here...That's hating a character because she's a bad character. Hating a character because they are who they are...Is good writing. Hating Stoneheart in concept I understand though.
This line really got to me, I can't exactly explain why.
Also when Catelyn felt the chain mail under the freys silk shirt, I just remember thinking "fuck".
toddhunter
Member
Still hoping that for some reason episode 9 gets delayed and tv people have to wait...for an extra 6 years.
Then we can all be as one.
Then we can all be as one.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Must... resist....
Bah.I'm sick of always getting into the same arguments so I'll just say, fuck the Catelyn haters. Seriously. Robb is a thousand times stupider. He's responsible for the downfall of Winterfell and of his house. If only he had listened to his mother...
Boom Boom Pow
Banned
when do you guys think Bolton betrayed Rob? The epilogue states that Bolton was the one who was the mastermind of the red wedding.
Also, why did Varys save Tyrio, but not NEd?
Also, why did Varys save Tyrio, but not NEd?
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Somewhere around the time Arya was at Harrenhal, I'd say.
He did save Ned... by offering him to confess and take the black. Ned wasn't condemned to death. Joffrey just went ahead and executed him anyway.
Catelyn's POV pretty much made the Red Wedding what it is, at least to me. Not just the brutality of her death, but being inside her head as it happened and reading her thoughts about her children and Ned.
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