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[Jayof9s]

A Time... of... Winter?

The dangers of getting distracted while posting. Though ATOW is an abbreviation that gets more use from me than TWOW, just for a different series entirely.

A Trance of Wagons. It's mostly going to be Bran warging into pack mules and exploring the logistics of the major military movements in the series so far.

I'd buy that. Despite Martin expanding what qualifies as plot worthy in recent books logistics really hasn't been explored in nearly enough depth yet.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Just finished the AFFC part of the Feast/Dance chronological reread. It really does fix a lot of the pacing issues both books had. It's all downhill from here and I'm happy to no longer have to keep swapping books.

 

[Blatz]

I found an interesting criticism of George Martin (don't know if it has been posted):

http://www.iswintercoming.com/ramsay-martin-t1465.html

It essentially states that Martin enjoys breaking characters down more so than building them up. That's why he's taken so long to finish the series because the only trajectory is to go up from here on out and he doesn't enjoy that.

I want to say I disagree with the guy's critique but I can't.

This guy makes some good points. But I call BS on the part where he says he knew Ned was a goner when they found the direwolf pups.

 

[Basileus777]

The symbolism of the dire wolf scene is pretty blatant, it's not that hard to believe. Even the characters in the book realize it's a symbol.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I can't take that article seriously given the author read the novels a couple years ago and considers himself an expert; worst yet any description of ASOS as being part dreary cannot stand, man. There is no idealogical explanation for Martin's struggles, it has to do with his plans going awry. The five year gap was supposed to skip much of the heavy lifting many people complain about such as the Greyjoy election and Dany's occupation of Mereen. When it was scrapped Martin was forced to start over again - which created the Knot issue.

Ultimately the article complains about the story not being conventional. Anyone who expects some happy ending on the horizon isn't paying attention, and Martin has said many times that the ending will be bittersweet.

If anything the article exposes an issue that could kill the show. The endlessly dreary fates of popular characters could turn viewers off. Killing Ned was a shocker, but also a hook that snagged the attention of viewers. I'm not sure the Red Wedding will do that, in fact it might turn people off. And given how popular Dany has become, her Mereen stop will probably be net with indifference; everyone wants to see her in Westeros. As Lost, The Sopranos, and many other shows have proven, you can't get away forever without giving the audience what it wants. David Chase has talked about how people watched The Sopranos, laughed at Tony's jokes, cheered for him, but ultimately wanted to see his brains splattered everywhere; they felt almost entitled to that ending, and were upset when it didn't happen.

 

[ToyMachine228]

Ultimately the article complains about the story not being conventional. Anyone who expects some happy ending on the horizon isn't paying attention, and Martin has said many times that the ending will be bittersweet.

As a reader, I sincerely hope that the series doesn't end with Dany winning back the Iron Throne and living happily ever after. I feel like GRRM has made Dany too much his baby. It's the story of a girl who starts from nothing, and being abused, who works up to gain the highest position in the land. Add in the fact that she's beautiful and freeing slaves and I feel that Dany has become too black and white in a world that is inhabited by nothing but characters who are gray and sport obvious flaws. If the series ends with Dany conquering Westero and fighting off the White Walkers to save everyone left alive, I feel like the entire series will have been for nothing because this unpredictable and twisted journey would end in such a lame and cliche manner.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

GRRM has stated that Dany's story in ADWD (as well as Jon's) is meant to show that ruling is hard work, and very different than conquering. Dany struggles majorly with this despite doing her best, she's hardly a Mary Sue for whom everything goes well. Last time we saw her she was shitting herself starving in the desert.

I don't think she will end on the Iron Throne and live happily ever after. It's not GRRM's style at all, and he has already said the ending would be bittersweet.

 

[PhoenixDark]

It would be interesting if she turned out to be the villain of the series but that won't happen. I doubt she'll ever sit on the throne. Perhaps she'll save Westeros from the Others, then head to Valyria to rebuild or something.

 

[CrashBandicoot]

I think she'll still end up on the Iron Throne, but the bittersweet thing will come from the loss of something (or everything) else; Jorah, Ser Barristan (he'll probably die sooner though), her dragons etc.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I think she'll still end up on the Iron Throne, but the bittersweet thing will come from the loss of something (or everything) else; Jorah, Ser Barristan (he'll probably die sooner though), her dragons etc.

Fuck Jorah. Losing him is like losing a barnicle.

It wouldn't surprise me if she herself dies, actually.

 

[Fey]

I hope Sansa is the "younger, more beautiful" queen who will cast Cersei down and take everything she holds dear.

I also hope Dany dies in the last book, after she finally comes to Westeros. Unless she redeems herself/story somehow along the way.

 

[Ape Gone Insane]

GRRM has stated that Dany's story in ADWD (as well as Jon's) is meant to show that ruling is hard work, and very different than conquering. Dany struggles majorly with this despite doing her best, she's hardly a Mary Sue for whom everything goes well. Last time we saw her she was shitting herself starving in the desert.

I don't think she will end on the Iron Throne and live happily ever after. It's not GRRM's style at all, and he has already said the ending would be bittersweet.

Did he say her ending in particular would be bittersweet?

A bittersweet ending in general could be ruling an utterly ruined and devastated kingdom.

 

[CrashBandicoot]

That sounds like something Paedophinger would do.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Maggy the Frog is the worst thing GRRM has ever written.

I dunno about that. Why do people say this? What I liked about Maggy's prophecies aren't the visions themselves, but the delightful irony in how Cersei completely misinterprets them. It's almost guaranteed that the valonqar will be Jaime and not Tyrion, and the younger prettier queen will be Dany or Sansa and not Margaery.

I also find it interesting, if somewhat depressing, that it suggests both Tommen and Myrcella will die (and that Myrcella will be crowned at some point). Those poor kids.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I dunno about that. Why do people say this? What I liked about Maggy's prophecies aren't the visions themselves, but the delightful irony in how Cersei completely misinterprets them. It's almost guaranteed that the valonqar will be Jaime and not Tyrion, and the younger prettier queen will be Dany or Sansa and not Margaery.

I also find it interesting, if somewhat depressing, that it suggests both Tommen and Myrcella will die (and that Myrcella will be crowned at some point). Those poor kids.

Unless "golden crown" refers to their hair.

And what I don't like is how obvious the misinterpretations are, and how dumb Cersei is shown to b ein her own POVs.

Really, really hated her parts of AFFC.

 

[Massa]

Am I the only one who took the House of the Undying scene in season 2 of the show to be foreshadowing story bits of the later books?

Dany approaches the Iron Throne in a shattered King's Landing, and comes close to sitting on it but goes North instead. In the North she's reunited with her family.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Am I the only one who took the House of the Undying scene in season 2 of the show to be foreshadowing story bits of the later books?

Dany approaches the Iron Throne in a shattered King's Landing, and comes close to sitting on it but goes North instead. In the North she's reunited with her family.

I think there's a good chance that it's foreshadowing of even if she takes the throne, it will empty and meaningless with the realm destroyed by War/Winter/White Walkers and/or those she loves dead.

 

[Wh0 N0se]

It would be a bittersweet ending if after everything Dany wins the Iron Throne at great cost but is unable to produce an heir and when she dies it leaves another power battle for the throne.

 

[Moff]

Am I the only one who took the House of the Undying scene in season 2 of the show to be foreshadowing story bits of the later books?

i already said back then that that was the first moment the show hinted at something the book readers did not know yet. I am absolutely sure most of westeros will be completely destroyed by ice and fire, and most of the population with it, valar morghulis.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The one thing I hate about prophecies in books is how they're always true.

 

[CitizenVectron]

The one thing I hate about prophecies in books is how they're always true.

But the fun part is not knowing how to interpret them until they come true: e.g. Sun rises in the west and sets in the east.

 

[Tacitus_]

The one thing I hate about prophecies in books is how they're always true.

Mel prophesied that Renly would break Stannis' host at Blackwater.

Make it vague enough and everything is true.

 

[aFIGurANT]

But the fun part is not knowing how to interpret them until they come true: e.g. Sun rises in the west and sets in the east.

It would be simply awesome if all the shit that crazy lady says at the end of season 1 about mountains blowing in the wind actually becomes realized. I think if GRRM pulls something epically magical with some of the North/God of Light stuff we will forgive anything and everything up to that point.

 

[CassSept]

Mel prophesied that Renly would break Stannis' host at Blackwater.

Make it vague enough and everything is true.

It's a lot like real-life fortune-telling, a lot of vague words that can only be applied to actual events after they had already happened.

And we know Mel is terrible at reading fires, even if there is somewhat reliable source of divination in the world (be it fires, House of Undying, Ghost of High Heart).

Oh and while I don't really like Maggy the Frog, I really hope not all of Cersei's children die. I know "gold will be their crown and gold their shrouds" is generally accepted to mean that they all will be crowned and dead by the end of the series, but eh. That would be too obvious.

I really like the idea that the entire AAR/TPtwP is just a great misdirection, and there won't be an actual all-powerful hero that will save the entire world. That would quite fit the universe.

 

[CrashBandicoot]

It would be simply awesome if all the shit that crazy lady says at the end of season 1 about mountains blowing in the wind actually becomes realized

I think, correct me if I'm wrong, the current theory is that that's supposed to be when her dragons burnt down the pyramids of Meeren? Dunno if I buy it or not though

 

[PhoenixDark]

But are the prophesies always true? Seems more like it depends on how they're interpreted. Martin often tells the story of a king during the War of the Roses who learned that he was prophesied to die below a certain castle's walls. He spent years getting as far away from that castle as possible. Then later during the war he died, and his body was found outside an inn; the inn's sign depicted a picture of the castle.

Melisandre prophesied that Renly would defeat Stannis at the Blackwater, the Dothraki prophesied that Dany's son would conquer the world. I find Martin's prophesy interesting because they're so open to interpretation and hypothetical. Is Cersei going to be killed by her little brothers, or any little brother? Is the murmer's dragon a cloth (fake) dragon, or a puppet? Is Dany herself the Prince Who Will Mount the World, or is it Aegon?

Meanwhile there are probably a dozen candidates for Azor Ahai, from Davos to The Hound.

 

[Tacitus_]

It would be simply awesome if all the shit that crazy lady says at the end of season 1 about mountains blowing in the wind actually becomes realized. I think if GRRM pulls something epically magical with some of the North/God of Light stuff we will forgive anything and everything up to that point.

There's a bunch of theories on what has satisfied her terms, but personally I think she was just telling Dany that "nope, he won't be getting up again" in a very long-winded way.

It's a lot like real-life fortune-telling, a lot of vague words that can only be applied to actual events after they had already happened.

And we know Mel is terrible at reading fires, even if there is somewhat reliable source of divination in the world (be it fires, House of Undying, Ghost of High Heart).

Oh and while I don't really like Maggy the Frog, I really hope not all of Cersei's children die. I know "gold will be their crown and gold their shrouds" is generally accepted to mean that they all will be crowned and dead by the end of the series, but eh. That would be too obvious.

I really like the idea that the entire AAR/TPtwP is just a great misdirection, and there won't be an actual all-powerful hero that will save the entire world. That would quite fit the universe.

I really like the interpretation that the golden crown refers to their hair.

I think, correct me if I'm wrong, the current theory is that that's supposed to be when her dragons burnt down the pyramids of Meeren? Dunno if I buy it or not though

Martell would be the Sun that rises in the West and sets in the East, the sea drying refers to the Dothraki Sea, the mountains blowing in the wind are the pyramids and Dany just had blood drip out of her with the dragons possibly being her children. But I don't really buy it.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

The prophecies aren't always true. The most obvious one being about Dany's son, Rhaego, from the crones of Vaes Dothrak.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I must be too hyped for Season 3 episode 9. Having series related dreams. Eerie.

 

[cashman]

After reading through the books how could anyone think Azor Ahai isn't Robert Arryn

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

The prophecies aren't always true. The most obvious one being about Dany's son, Rhaego, from the crones of Vaes Dothrak.

I think the idea is that, all things being equal and no interference by either magic or gods, a prophesy predicts the most likely outcome, given the current set of circumstances.

Rhaego would have conquered Westeros had Mirri Maz Dur not intervened.

It would be simply awesome if all the shit that crazy lady says at the end of season 1 about mountains blowing in the wind actually becomes realized. I think if GRRM pulls something epically magical with some of the North/God of Light stuff we will forgive anything and everything up to that point.

I don't think the pyramids of Mereen burning are the mountains blowing in the wind like leaves.

One of the sellsword companies, indeed, the one Quentyn and his mates hitched a ride to Mereen with, is called the Windblown. I don't recall any of those guys being described as mountains though. I think maybe they play a part.

Also, did anyone notice that the Perfumed Seneshal is a very close translation of the ship Tyrion, Jorah, Penny and Moqorro travelled on, the Salaesori Qhoran?

 

[Ape Gone Insane]

Somebody saw the episode early for the upcoming episode (and gave a lot of specific dialogue and details that weren't in the books, so I've spoilered it). It sounds legit.

Spoiler

Rob Stark has just been shot with arrows (and his pregnant wife has been stabbed multiple times in the stomach - DEAD). As Rob lays dying, Cat pleads for mercy from the King (the dude whose daughter Rob was supposed to marry)that he let Rob walk away. Cat holds the King's wife hostage with a knife to her throat, promising to kill her. The King says he'll get another wife, and Rob is stabbed and gutted. Cat is in grief stricken shock. The final shot starts wide as we see a frozen and grieving Cat cut the throat of the king's wife, and then slowly zoom into her face...just as someone comes behind her and cuts her throat. Cut to black.

....

Rob is shot with arrows during the ambush. After Cat's pleading, and the King's refusal... (I'm brutal with names) The guy who helped Jamie Lanister a few episodes back walks up to Rob and says "The Lanisters send their regards", and stabs him in the stomach with a downward motion. Rob falls to the floor dead.

...

After Rob is killed, it cuts to a shot of Cat screaming in grief. It cuts to a wider shot of Cat holding the knife to Frey’s wife’s throat. Cat’s face is a frozen emotionless mask of pain. As we slowly zoom in tighter, she casually cuts her throat and drops the knife. Cat is emotionless as the camera closes tighter. One of the guards come behind her, and without any edits, cuts Cat’s throat. She falls out of frame as we hold on the flickering candle in the background for a few seconds. Cut to black, with dead silence over the end credits.

http://www.imdb.com/user/ur20254459/boards/profile

 

[Tacitus_]

Hmh, there were those "spoilers" a while ago that turned out to be false. You can fill in the blanks of the preview if you know what happens so it's easy to bullshit in some details.

 

[Ape Gone Insane]

Hmh, there were those "spoilers" a while ago that turned out to be false. You can fill in the blanks of the preview if you know what happens so it's easy to bullshit in some details.

True enough. Though, some users were saying that this guy also released details about the Blackwater episode, which turned out to be correct. And the preview for ep 9 gives nothing away with respect to Red Wedding.

 

[Trojita]

lol at calling Lord Frey King.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I think the idea is that, all things being equal and no interference by either magic or gods, a prophesy predicts the most likely outcome, given the current set of circumstances.

Rhaego would have conquered Westeros had Mirri Maz Dur not intervened.

If someone can intervene to make the prophecy false, then... obviously any prophecy can be nulled and voided. -shrugs-

 

[Wh0 N0se]

If someone can intervene to make the prophecy false, then... obviously any prophecy can be nulled and voided. -shrugs-

My prophecy 'Dany will not take the Iron Throne'

Spoiler

Unless she does, then discount this

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

My prophecy 'Dany will not take the Iron Throne'

Spoiler

Unless she does, then discount this

Melisandre said the same thing in the books. She's like of course prophesies can be avoided, otherwise what would be the point?

 

[Wh0 N0se]

Melisandre said the same thing in the books. She's like of course prophesies can be avoided, otherwise what would be the point?

Yeah but when she does

Spoiler

Or doesn't

I'll be able to say that I predicted it

 

[Dresden]

oh my god it's so close to happening

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Probably old, but still very cool:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.232323176777744.70785.198918470118215&type=3

lol @ Catelyn vs Lady Stoneheart, and Reek xD Quaithe, Xaro, Chella, Hot Pie and the Ghost of High Heart crack me up also.

He even drew super obscure members of the Golden Company, the Brave Companions and the Brotherhood without Banners, lol... kinda weird. I'd have drawn less minor characters that actually have lines instead, such as Pate (Oldtown), Alleras/Sarella, Marwyn, Chataya and Alayaya, Jeyne Poole, the Green Grace, Roslin Frey, Septa Lemore, Dalla, Chett, post-change Jaqen (aka the Alchemist), Merret Frey, Taena Merryweather, Lollys, Big and Little Walder Frey. Even Jhalabar Xho is less obscure than some of those he drew, lol.

Then again I think those mercenary company/brotherhood artworks may have been requests... hmm.

Edit: another, very different but still cool artist:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1783503516919.2100361.1519422246&type=1

 

[exYle]

Probably old, but still very cool:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.232323176777744.70785.198918470118215&type=3

lol @ Catelyn vs Lady Stoneheart, and Reek xD Quaithe, Xaro, Chella, Hot Pie and the Ghost of High Heart crack me up also.

He even drew super obscure members of the Golden Company, the Brave Companions and the Brotherhood without Banners, lol... kinda weird. I'd have drawn less minor characters that actually have lines instead, such as Pate (Oldtown), Alleras/Sarella, Marwyn, Chataya and Alayaya, Jeyne Poole, the Green Grace, Roslin Frey, Septa Lemore, Dalla, Chett, post-change Jaqen (aka the Alchemist), Merret Frey, Taena Merryweather, Lollys, Big and Little Walder Frey. Even Jhalabar Xho is less obscure than some of those he drew, lol.

Then again I think those mercenary company/brotherhood artworks may have been requests... hmm.

Edit: another, very different but still cool artist:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1783503516919.2100361.1519422246&type=1

Dat #300

 

[fanboi]

Tonight right?

 

[suzu]

Tonight right?

Yes.

*insert grinch.gif*

 

[phaze]

They should have placed the RW in the 8th ep. It's a bit too predictable, everyone now knows that something will go down in the 9th episode of every season.

 

[cj_iwakura]

They should have placed the RW in the 8th ep. It's a bit too predictable, everyone now knows that something will go down in the 9th episode of every season.

Yes, but the preview did a great job of making people think it's a big war, not a massacre.

 

[Ape Gone Insane]

 

[Reyne]

Man, too busy with exams to fully enjoy tonights episode ( and reactions ) so I won't be able to follow the meltdown. But its gonna be a good reward to read about it later

 

[1138]

Tonight right?

My body is ready!

Will watch it with non-readers

 

[CrashBandicoot]

http://i.imgur.com/O3D802d.gif[IMG][/QUOTE]

This is fantastic