• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**

Status
Not open for further replies.
L

Louis Cypher

Banned
flyover said:
Hell, I can sometimes almost convince myself that Littlefinger is the hero of the series, despite how odious he can be. He's got no magic, no dragons, no prophesies, no notable lineage, no warrior skills, etc. He's armed only with obsessive self-interest, the patience to play the long game, the smarts to see the big picture, and the ability to manage minutia. Despite starting with no advantages, he's a total badass for whom almost everything works out.

I originally thought that, in a more conventional story, Littlefinger actually would be the hero. But that's not necessarily the case. If anything, he's like a comic book supervillain. I read some post recently (wish I could remember where) that lists how comic heroes are often born to privilege (e.g., Batman) or gifted with superpowers they did little to earn (e.g., Superman). It's their biggest nemeses (Joker, Lex Luthor) who are self-made. They're the underdogs who overcome adversity.
Click to expand...

Littlefinger has always been one of my favorites.

Too bad he is made into a mustache twirler on the show

timetokill said:
So did anybody else like how the show referred to us book readers?

We're wizards compared to those non-book scum!
Click to expand...

Yeah there are tons of quote in the books about how awesome readers are
 
C

cashman

Banned
Minus_Me said:
It's pretty amazing that Littlefinger essentially caused so much destruction because he tells Cath a lie about a dagger.
Click to expand...

He also had to convince Lysa to kill Jon Arryn, but really something was gonna go down Littlefinger just fucked the Starks over.
 
S

Summary Man

Member
I don't have HBO, so I haven't been following this season as well as I'd like. How is Theon's storyline being handled in the show? In the "no book" thread, it seems as if people don't know who his torturer is at all. Is his face always hidden, or do they just not know it's Ramsay yet?

And from the way it's portrayed in the show, is it supposed to be a surprise when it's revealed to be Ramsay? Has the show given any indication of WHO Ramsay even is?
 
R

rando14

Member
Summary Man said:
I don't have HBO, so I haven't been following this season as well as I'd like. How is Theon's storyline being handled in the show? In the "no book" thread, it seems as if people don't know who his torturer is at all. Is his face always hidden, or do they just not know it's Ramsay yet?

And from the way it's portrayed in the show, is it supposed to be a surprise when it's revealed to be Ramsay? Has the show given any indication of WHO Ramsay even is?
Click to expand...

Nope the show hasn't mentioned his name iirc, though I think they've revealed they're in the dreadfort (again could be wrong). I don't see how a non-reader would know the guy is Roose's bastard.

As for how they've handled his storyline, they're doing well considering theon is a no-show in ASOS. Ramsay is such a dick lol
 
C

chiQ

Member
Ingeniero said:
That would be Daenerys.

Stannis is the man, the rightful king.
Click to expand...

I don't want either on the throne. Both strike me as too susceptible to being driven and steered by sex-kittens.

Speaking of sex-kittens, I'd like to see Tyrion on the throne, but it'll never happen.
 
C

cashman

Banned
ToyMachine228 said:
Remind me again how Lysa was involved in Arrn's death?
Click to expand...

She put the tears of lys in his tea.


Summary Man said:
I don't have HBO, so I haven't been following this season as well as I'd like. How is Theon's storyline being handled in the show? In the "no book" thread, it seems as if people don't know who his torturer is at all. Is his face always hidden, or do they just not know it's Ramsay yet?

And from the way it's portrayed in the show, is it supposed to be a surprise when it's revealed to be Ramsay? Has the show given any indication of WHO Ramsay even is?
Click to expand...

I just looked at a Ramsay scene, and if you really really pay attention a show watcher can figure out that he is a Bolton.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
rando14 said:
Nope the show hasn't mentioned his name iirc, though I think they've revealed they're in the dreadfort (again could be wrong). I don't see how a non-reader would know the guy is Roose's bastard.

As for how they've handled his storyline, they're doing well considering theon is a no-show in ASOS. Ramsay is such a dick lol
Click to expand...

They haven't revealed it's the Dreadfort. The only hint is that he ties Theon up to a giant wooden 'X' (the sigil of the house).

People's opinions have been kind of split on the arc including mine. There have been a couple great scenes and the guy they have to play Ramsay is perfect, but it did catch common criticism for back to back weeks (eps 6 and 7) of two torture scenes that provided no insight or plot, just torture.

The stuff in episodes 3 and 4 was great though, Ramsay initially poses as someone services his torturers and helps him escape.

If you want to watch:
Episode 3 scenes
Episode 4

I assume he'll reveal himself next ep.
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
Steelyuhas said:
They haven't revealed it's the Dreadfort. The only hint is that he ties Theon up to a giant wooden 'X' (the sigil of the house).

People's opinions have been kind of split on the arc including mine. There have been a couple great scenes and the guy they have to play Ramsay is perfect, but it did catch common criticism for back to back weeks (eps 6 and 7) of two torture scenes that provided no insight or plot, just torture.

The stuff in episodes 3 and 4 was great though, Ramsay initially poses as someone services his torturers and helps him escape.

If you want to watch:
Episode 3 scenes
Episode 4

I assume he'll reveal himself next ep.
Click to expand...


The guy calling him a bastard was sheer brilliance.

And yeah, I think it would've been better if they'd had Theon's castration an episode later. Still painful to watch.
 
M

MuggerMD

Banned
Just caught up on the HBO show and was surprised to see Robb's wife at the red wedding, and she got killed.For some reason I remember while reading the books that there was rumor Robb's wife was carrying a child, and the Lannisters were concerned about this.

Am I off on how I remember this, and if not how would HBO handle it if GRRM brought Robb's off spring into the mix?
 
R

rando14

Member
MuggerMD said:
Just caught up on the HBO show and was surprised to see Robb's wife at the red wedding, and she got killed.For some reason I remember while reading the books that there was rumor Robb's wife was carrying a child, and the Lannisters were concerned about this.

Am I was off on how I remember this, and if not how would HBO handle it if GRRM brought Robb's off spring into the mix?
Click to expand...

Well remember that Robb's wife (Talisa) in the show was made up, she doesn't exist in the books. In the books, Jeyne was given "anti-pregnancy" potions by her mom so she wouldn't get pregnant.

There are, of course, several theories floating around about Jeyne being pregnant, or perhaps there even being two Jeynes.
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
rando14 said:
Well remember that Robb's wife (Talisa) in the show was made up, she doesn't exist in the books. In the books, Jeyne was given "anti-pregnancy" potions by her mom so she wouldn't get pregnant.

There are, of course, several theories floating around about Jeyne being pregnant, or perhaps there even being two Jeynes.
Click to expand...

Why did they rename her?

And if I recall, there was a scene in the book after Robb's death of Jeyne keeping his crown, implying she did care about him.
 
R

rando14

Member
cj_iwakura said:
Why did they rename her?

And if I recall, there was a scene in the book after Robb's death of Jeyne keeping his crown, implying she did care about him.
Click to expand...

here's the wiki explanation

The discrepancy was later explained by Chaplin's character originally being conceived as being similar to Jeyne Westerling from the novels, even named the same, but then moving further and further away during rewrites. Eventually George R.R. Martin himself suggested they just rename her and make her a completely new character. Martin himself came up with the name since he pointed out that Jeyne is not a Volantene name
Click to expand...

sounds like the writers were writing Jeyne's character too far from the normal so GRRM just said forget Jeyne entirely
 
D

devilhawk

Member
Have forgot about this thread since the move.

The episode 9 thread brought up a question I commonly think about: Who is the third head of the dragon?

We have Jon and Dany. Assuming Aegon is a Blackfyre, who can that leave? I hope the third has already been introduced and is not added even later. I also don't believe Tyrion is it.
 
R

rando14

Member
devilhawk said:
Have forgot about this thread since the move.

The episode 9 thread brought up a question I commonly think about: Who is the third head of the dragon?

We have Jon and Dany. Assuming Aegon is a Blackfyre, who can that leave? I hope the third has already been introduced and is not added even later. I also don't believe Tyrion is it.
Click to expand...

Wait why would Aegon be a Blackfyre? He's Rhaegar's son, I think he's just running with the Blackfyre crowd aka Gold company
 
hemtae

hemtae

Member
rando14 said:
Wait why would Aegon be a Blackfyre? He's Rhaegar's son, I think he's just running with the Blackfyre crowd aka Gold company
Click to expand...

Mummer's Dragon, the story about the inn sign, moqorros prophecy, and the golden company willing to break a contract for him.
 
F

Fey

Banned
rando14 said:
Wait why would Aegon be a Blackfyre? He's Rhaegar's son, I think he's just running with the Blackfyre crowd aka Gold company
Click to expand...

loooord, where have you been. Aegon being fake/a Blackfyre is a really popular theory.

I was hoping this page explained it properly but it doesn't really go into much depth. Just search "aegon fake" and you'll get essays about it.
 
R

rando14

Member
Minus_Me said:
Unless Varys has been lying to everyone.
Click to expand...

Lying as in he's not Rhaegar's son? I thought he switched Aegon with a tanner's child?

Fey said:
loooord, where have you been. Aegon being fake/a Blackfyre is a really popular theory.

I was hoping this page explained it properly but it doesn't really go into much depth. Just search "aegon fake" and you'll get essays about it.
Click to expand...


Oh wow I had no idea about this lol, thanks for the link.
 
M

Minus_Me

Member
rando14 said:
Lying as in he's not Rhaegar's son? I thought he switched Aegon with a tanner's child?




Oh wow I had no idea about this lol, thanks for the link.
Click to expand...

That's what I meant, should have made it more clear. I can't wait till this series is over and we see the scope of the game Varys has been playing.
 
D

devilhawk

Member
Even without any of the prophosies stuff I think it is pretty likely he is a Blackfyre. How do you get the one company famous for never breaking a contract to break their contract? Illrio tells Tyrion "Some contracts are writ in ink, and some in blood." Then he says "Black or red, a dragon is still a dragon." Tyrion takes it as why they are helping Dany, not why they broke the contract and our helping "Aegon."

So I ask again, who does that leave as the third dragon? Or can a mummer's dragon still count?
 
M

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Wh0 N0se said:
EDIT:
Also, thinking on it, do any of the main lords have male heirs?

Tommen Lannister - Myrcella but it's highly likely they both die if we've read Maggie the Frogs prophecy correctly and assuming it happens.
Mace Tyrell - He has Garlan and Loras and another(?) - Garlan is not married yet, Loras is in the kingsuard and may not want a wife anyways and I'm not sure if there's another? Margaery would obviously lose her name with a marriage Garlan is married to Lady Leonette Fossoway. Willas is yet unmarried, and is the current heir to Highgarden.
Doran Martell - Arianne is the only daughter now, she'd lose her name if married. Not by Dornish law. And there's still Trystane Martell after her.
Bran Stark - then Rickon, It's obviously likely that Rickon will have to carry on the name if Bran doesn't come back, of course, Jon could be legitimized potentially but we'll see on that. Sansa would lose her name as would Arya.
Euron - Has no kids, I'd assume this would go to a Kingsmoot, Victarion is most like to die, Aeron doesn't want it, I don't think Theon will ever recover and Asha is a female, so would lose her name. The Ironborn don't really follow Westerosi laws of succession. Asha had a decent claim, and if something happened to her uncles, the Ironborn would likely follow her.
Edmure - I think Roslin is pregnant isn't she? But it's not known whether it's a boy or a girl and it could die at an early age. Yes, she's pregnant.
Stannis - Only has Shireen and she'd obviously lose her name upon marriage. [TWoW]
Stannis named Shireen as his heir until a son is born to him, and has told his bannermen that he expects them to crown Shireen as queen and rally behind her should anything happen to him.
Click to expand...
Also: girls can inherit if there are no other male heirs in line.

ToyMachine228 said:
Remind me again how Lysa was involved in Arrn's death?
Click to expand...
She put Tears of Lys (a slow acting poison that make it look like normal disease) in Jon Arryn's wine at Littlefinger's behest.
 
B

Beyonce Beytwice

Member
Supermanisdead said:
Reading AFFC right now and good god, iron born are fucking shit. Jesus, WHO THE HELL CARES ABOUT YOU ASHA. NOBODY, THATS WHO.
Click to expand...

The Ironborn chapters in AFFC do suck but they get better in the next book. Asha's chapters in ADWD are pretty decent but especially Victarion's are completely awesome and hilarious. Victarion is my favorite POV character in that book (followed by Cersei, Barristan and Arya).
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
I'm gonna assume Robert Arryn will die soon due to a dreamwine overdose, foaming at the mouth as the drug addict he is was made to be.
 
B

bone_and_sinew

breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
Supermanisdead said:
"nuncle yadda yadda yadda nuncle"

ASHA SHUTUP

I'm just going to skip every single one of these viking garbage chapters
Click to expand...
For me The Damphair chapters were the worst but at least there's a decent pay-off for all the bullshit and they finally play a better role in the game later on.
 
M

Massa

Member
So I've heard it said that GRRM described the ending of the series as "bittersweet"... Benioff talks about it a little in this video and he seems to be suggesting it will be very dark.

I'm probably just reading too much into it.
 
B

Blatz

Member
Massa said:
So I've heard it said that GRRM described the ending of the series as "bittersweet"... Benioff talks about it a little in this video and he seems to be suggesting it will be very dark.

I'm probably just reading too much into it.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing there will be some martyrdom involved. That will make it bittersweet. Maybe a well liked character "wins", but at great cost.

GRRM has also said in the past that several people will sit on the the throne before the end. So that could be fun. Or he could have been screwing with us.

Who knows?
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
The worst part about Stoneheart is that you are all like

crap we lost Beric! He was awesome.

but I guess its good we got Catelyn back :)

Oh god she looks terrible and that voice :(

aw crap she is chaotic evil :S

Bad Catelyn bad!
 
T

talisayNon

Member
ok after re-reading the chapter summaries of ASOS i'm pretty sure the last scene of next week's episode will be Jeoffrey choking to death.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

House of the Dragon S2 |OT| Blood for Blood, Fire to Fire (no book discussion)
6 7 8 9 10
458
20K
EverydayBeast replied
Alan Wake II | Spoiler Discussion Thread
Spoilers
35
3K
Vergil1992 replied
Long live Tango Gameworks! 'Appreciation Thread'
2
63
5K
Hudo replied
George R.R. Martin - The Adaptation Tango
16
1K
FunkMiller replied
I feel my gamefly queue is inadequate
Cringe
16
1K
Toots replied
Top Bottom