PhoenixDark
Banned
That would be interesting, although would two champions against one be legal? Jaime being the "valonquer" and killing Cersei by defeating her champion during the trial. That would be unexpected.
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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Basileus777
Member
The TWoW preview chapters have just been more set-up. nothing particularly interesting has happened in any of them.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Uhh have you seen the Barriston chapters?
Basileus777
Member
Oh that's right, there is that second Barristan chapter where things happen. The rest are mostly just moving pieces into place so things can begin.
We already had two Arianne chapters and they are both basically her walking through the desert and talking, right? I mean, set-up is fine but how much can we have. The entire Dorne plot in AFFC was all set-up, with maybe one actual event happening (Myrcella assassination attempt).
Basileus777
Member
That's just how GRRM writes nowadays, everything needs to be explained, everything needs to be shown on screen, and we need to see every step of the journey. I wouldn't expect it to change for TWOW.
Steelyuhas
Member
Yep, that was the one.
They are just there. I wouldn't call them fluff or eye-openers.
I know, but imagine how AGOT would look if GRRM wrote it today. Cat would have more chapters than Ned and her trip from KL to Crossroad Inn would span three chapters of her talking with Rodrik, contemplating upon her past life and "Dark wings, dark words" every four sentences. I like world-building but it has gotten completely out of hand and is somewhat starting to impair the story.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Yeah, that's a good point. I love the lore and all, I really really do. But the first three books had plenty of them, while still having a very tightly focused story despite being spread through so many characters and enriched through so much lore. AFFC and ADWD have, sadly, lost that focus. I still liked the books, but I hope TWoW will be more like ASoS.
Basileus777
Member
What would we ever do without Tyrion listing the 100 types of turtles on the Rhoyne, or Quentyn giving us paragraphs of descriptions about irrelevant mercenary companies? Even beyond the unnecessary chapters or plot-lines, individual chapter sizes have ballooned because GRRM has lost his ability to economize his words or refrain from self-indulgent excesses. I don't expect it to change though, it's why I doubt 2 more books will be enough to finish this series.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
I love how every pig-ignorant yokel and drunken sellsword has an thorough knowledge of history and uses flourishing language to describe things. He has a tendency to put words into the mouths of the characters that really shouldn't be dialogue.
Louis Cypher
Banned
All the viking stuff will be worth it when Euron aka Darrio kills Dany in the most gory and best way
Men are men, vows are words, and words are wind.
Ape Gone Insane
Member
ToyMachine228
Member
He needed to get somewhere quickly. Perhaps to surprise and capture Jaime?
Time. He could have avoided the Twins if he crossed the river through other means. But having a whole army cross the river would have taken him ages and alot of effort. Time he didn't have because he was marching south to free his father from Kings Landing.
Of course that changed after his father was murdered and he turned west instead of marching for Kings Landing.
Basileus777
Member
Sure. Why not?
CrashBandicoot
Member
Euron's taking fucking with Victarion to the next level.
Basileus777
Member
Euron is actually the dusky woman.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Yeah, everytime I reread AGOT, I'm surprised at how short the chapters are compared to later books.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
That's not how the Dunk and Egg stories are written.
I think a lot of that's the fallout from both splitting the books and from planning (and the abondoning) a time-jump.
I fully expect things to go GoT speed the next two books.
(also, even GoT/CoK had some semi-endless wandering by Arya and Bran).
Basileus777
Member
The Dunk and Egg stories are short stories published in anthologies. For his latest short story, GRRM submitted 80k words and had it edited down to 30k. It's a whole different type of writing with different limitations. And the Mystery Knight is the only Dunk and Egg story he's written in recent years.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I'll still stand by my statements regarding the abondonded time-jump and the split.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Had to say this in here, but...
I'm surprised there are Jorah Mormont fans in the show thread. I hate that guy. Is it just me? He's almost literally a white knight, has played both sides, sold people into slavery because he couldn't wear the pants enought to keep his wife from spending him into oblivion, runs away rather than do the honorable thing (join the Watch) and then his dad takes his place.
I'm surprised there are Jorah Mormont fans in the show thread. I hate that guy. Is it just me? He's almost literally a white knight, has played both sides, sold people into slavery because he couldn't wear the pants enought to keep his wife from spending him into oblivion, runs away rather than do the honorable thing (join the Watch) and then his dad takes his place.
CrashBandicoot
Member
I dunno, I appreciated his dedication to Dany before I found out he sold her secrets to The Small Council.
As subjective as those things are, I think he clearly isn't likable in the books; however, the show portrays him as a loyal guardian and great sword fighter - and puts very little emphasis on his scummy backstory.
I understood his motivations before he met Dany and why he broke those laws 'The things we do for love'. After he met her, him spying on her was to earn the pardon so you can understand that, it's just the moments after he was on her side that he betrayed her, that's what Dany hates the most.
And then to not regret his actions when she brings him and Barristan in front of her. I hope he goes back to being awesome, it wasn't nice seeing him being all defeated and giving up in ADWD
And then to not regret his actions when she brings him and Barristan in front of her. I hope he goes back to being awesome, it wasn't nice seeing him being all defeated and giving up in ADWD
BertramCooper
Banned
Has the show revealed that Jorah was a spy for Varys?
I honestly can't remember.
I honestly can't remember.
Pretty sure it has. Varys brings up Jorah's information at a small council meeting, and Ned is all "pfffft Jorah"
Steelyuhas
Member
Yes, Jorah also gets a message that he's been pardoned.
BertramCooper
Banned
Thaaaat's right. Thanks for the clarification.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Sure, but his sins seem big enough to earn him a "what a scumbag" reaction. ADWD didn't do his reputation any favors, either.
"I thought he was awesome until it turned out he was a scumbag."
Fair enough. I certainly hope he gets a serious comeuppance on the show to make him as unlikable in the books. I suppose they haven't pointed out that his dad took the Black in his place to save the homor of the house name.
Anyway, mostly venting here as some people declared themselve "Team Jorah" in the show thread.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Jeor went to the Night's Watch before Jorah did all that stuff.
BertramCooper
Banned
None.
Jeyne marrying Robb was almost certainly viewed as borderline treasonous by Tywin, since the Westerlings are sworn to House Lannister.
Are you suggesting that Tywin somehow arranged it to undermine the Stark/Frey marriage pact?
CrashBandicoot
Member
Exactly. How many show watchers are gonna remember a couple of lines from season one about Jorah?
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I'm wrong abotu so many things, although not about Jorah being pretty hatable.
radios shipping overview
Member
Team Jorah is the official simp/nice guy/fedora faction. I'm not surprised he has supporters.
I don't think Tywin arranged it at all, but I don't agree that he viewed it as a moment of treason from the Westerlings. In the chapter where he and Tyrion speak of it, Tyrion is surprised that Tywin isn't enraged by the news of the marriage. Tyrion then calls the Westerlings/Spicers fools to think it was wise to choose the wolf over the lion. And then you get this famous moment:
ASOS said:
Tywin has likely already been contacted by Sybell and Rolph Spicer, with news of the events with Robb, what they'll do to prevent an heir to the North, and how they can help prepare for the plot that would become the Red Wedding. Either that, or he knows them well enough to be sure that they will do so as soon as possible.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
None? He certainly took advantage of it, but I don't think he could have possibly foretold both Robb being Ned-levels of stupid-honorable (marrying Jeyne because he fucked her once) AND stupid levels of non-honorable as well (fucking Jeyne in the first place).
Whether it was treasonous or not, I'm sure Tywin thought it was awesome since I presume he'd have readily traded the Crag's forces and loyalty (which are, of course, easily replaceable with some other, more loyal bannerman) for the Twins abandoning the Northern cause even without the Red Wedding being planned.
I imagine even if they understood the total nature of his duplicity, he'd still be very popular. He has a weakness to women, and not in the Robert Baratheon sense.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I like Quentyn, though. Perhaps becuase he was genuinely a nice guy, not just an asshole who wants to think he's a nice guy.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
I just hate how GRRM made him a coward at the last minute as well. He's an ordained knight who is also a veteran of the Astapor campaign and he seizes up the second the Brazen Beasts show steel in the pyramid.
I understand that he was misguided and dutiful / obsessed with his honour to the point of negligent stupidity, but damn it, he was still a knight who travelled across the world, watched his friends die and participated in battles.
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