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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**

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T

Trasher

Member
Cpt.Underpants said:
Oh man, the series hasn't even outwardly introduce Lyanna and Rhaegar. Both were just mentioned in the first episode. Maybe because it's too obvious that R+L=J is true?
Click to expand...

Yeah probably. It's just so much harder to do that sort of thing in film. Books have a clear advantage in that sort of thing.
 
T

The Albatross

Member
cartoon_soldier said:
Here's a link to all the theories for the series

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/79775-a-compendium-of-theories/

This one was interesting one for me (and new) - The hooded man in Winterfell:
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.ph...man-new-theorypossible-spoilers/#entry4034881
Click to expand...

Very interesting. I hadn't thought about the identify of the 'ghost of winterfell' for a second.

But:
1) Does Arya ever say Theon's name in her nightly prayers?
2) Could anybody think that our good friend Jaqen has the ability to cover vast countryside very quickly?
3) Does it seem like a coincidence that Jaqen is the "ghost of harrenhal," under Arya's command, and that he could also be the Ghost of Winterfell?
 
C

Chococat

Member
The Albatross said:
Very interesting. I hadn't thought about the identify of the 'ghost of winterfell' for a second.

But:
1) Does Arya ever say Theon's name in her nightly prayers?
2) Could anybody think that our good friend Jaqen has the ability to cover vast countryside very quickly?
3) Does it seem like a coincidence that Jaqen is the "ghost of harrenhal," under Arya's command, and that he could also be the Ghost of Winterfell?
Click to expand...

Can't be Jaquen. He is currently undercover as Pate and is in contact with Sam (sorry I can't remember the exact place, but it has to do with infiltration the Citadel)
 
A

apana

Member
Just thought I would leave this here.

h6DXQVQEUENys7.jpg
 
Chuckie

Chuckie

Member
Moff said:
I never quite got the R+L=J theory

the only real evidence is that lysa named jon after her husband and her other son after robert.
and yes, I know what you think. aerys II had a son with his hands wife, too but I just dont see robert having a kid with lysa. why would ned agree to take him? it doesnt make sense to me.
Click to expand...

This post is awesome.
 
I

Iksenpets

Banned
cartoon_soldier said:
Here's a link to all the theories for the series

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/79775-a-compendium-of-theories/

This one was interesting one for me (and new) - The hooded man in Winterfell:
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.ph...man-new-theorypossible-spoilers/#entry4034881
Click to expand...

I like the Theon Durden theory. I once read another theory somewhere that the reason he calls him kinslayer is because Theon is actually the father of the younger of the two boys he killed, the one he passed off as Rickon. He mentions having slept with the miller's wife before back in book two, I believe. So he's suppressing any notion that the boy was his son from his conscious mind to avoid the guilt, but deep down, Theon Durden knows and calls him out on it.
 
W

Wh0 N0se

Member
Iksenpets said:
I like the Theon Durden theory. I once read another theory somewhere that the reason he calls him kinslayer is because Theon is actually the father of the younger of the two boys he killed, the one he passed off as Rickon. He mentions having slept with the miller's wife before back in book two, I believe. So he's suppressing any notion that the boy was his son from his conscious mind to avoid the guilt, but deep down, Theon Durden knows and calls him out on it.
Click to expand...

Someone did the maths whilst it's quite possible he could be the father of the children it's more likely that if he is he's the father of the youngest one because he would have been roughly twelve when you take into account his age and the childs age being that of the same as Rickon's.
 
J

Jayof9s

Member
Wh0 N0se said:
Someone did the maths whilst it's quite possible he could be the father of the children it's more likely that if he is he's the father of the youngest one because he would have been roughly twelve when you take into account his age and the childs age being that of the same as Rickon's.
Click to expand...

I thought Theon was about 20 - he was around 10 when he was taken from the Iron Isles and it was 10 years later when he returned and he was a few years older than Robb/Jon. If Rickon was 3-4, that means that Theon would have only needed to be 14-16 when/if he fathered the miller's wife's younger son. 12 might have been a stretch, but 14-16 (considering the series) doesn't seem too hard to believe. Especially since having just re-read COK it sounded like he'd been with the miller's wife a lot.

Not to say I buy into the theory but that would definitely make the whole thing worse if on some level he suspected one of those kids was his and he still let Ramsey kill them.
 
Chuckie

Chuckie

Member
Jayof9s said:
I thought Theon was about 20 - he was around 10 when he was taken from the Iron Isles and it was 10 years later when he returned and he was a few years older than Robb/Jon. If Rickon was 3-4, that means that Theon would have only needed to be 14-16 when/if he fathered the miller's wife's younger son. 12 might have been a stretch, but 14-16 (considering the series) doesn't seem too hard to believe. Especially since having just re-read COK it sounded like he'd been with the miller's wife a lot.

Not to say I buy into the theory but that would definitely make the whole thing worse if on some level he suspected one of those kids was his and he still let Ramsey kill them.
Click to expand...

I thought the kids were orphans, raised by the miller and his wife? Or was that in the TV series? I get confused sometimes :p
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Tence said:
I thought the kids were orphans, raised by the miller and his wife? Or was that in the TV series? I get confused sometimes :p
Click to expand...

IIRC in the show they had a scene where Bran and Maester Luwin gave the miller and his wife the orphans to raise as his own (might be he needed laborers or something) while he was lording over Winterfell.
 
Chuckie

Chuckie

Member
Aiii said:
IIRC in the show they had a scene where Bran and Maester Luwin gave the miller and his wife the orphans to raise as his own (might be he needed laborers or something) while he was lording over Winterfell.
Click to expand...

Ah that's it. Thanks. Guess I was confusing the two media.

But doesn't the fact that they are orphans in the TV-show 'prove' that the theory that they are Theons kids is untrue or at least not important for Martin. Or will the books and series go in a different way with Theon?
 
W

Wh0 N0se

Member
Tence said:
Ah that's it. Thanks. Guess I was confusing the two media.

But doesn't the fact that they are orphans in the TV-show 'prove' that the theory that they are Theons kids is untrue or at least not important for Martin. Or will the books and series go in a different way with Theon?
Click to expand...

It's becoming pretty clear that the show is going it's own way, like Yara (Asha) and her storyline, they've had to compress storylines and decide what's relevant.
 
M

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Tence said:
Ah that's it. Thanks. Guess I was confusing the two media.

But doesn't the fact that they are orphans in the TV-show 'prove' that the theory that they are Theons kids is untrue or at least not important for Martin. Or will the books and series go in a different way with Theon?
Click to expand...
Probably. That theory was completely stupid anyway, Theon wasn't old enough to have fathered kids of Bran's age.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Quick update on TWOW...

Liam Cunningham (Davos) did an interview a week ago with Throne Cast where he mentioned that Martin told him he's half way finished with the book; this was at the S3 premier back in late March/early April. He also told him something cool that happens to Davos in the book, perhaps to cheer him up for more "being locked in a cell" scenes. I hope the show does some liberal changes to Davos, perhaps even bringing him to the Wall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTUV6n2mOVY (around 6min mark)

Looking at Martin's schedule you'll notice he has a few upcoming events. His next one is Comic Con in late July, so he's had quite a lot of time recently at home. Interestingly, his last 2013 appearance is in November. After that he doesn't have anything on his calendar until May 30th 2014; obviously he'll be doing some S4 appearances in April or March but that's it. That's nearly 6 months of uninterrupted "me" time for him. Based on this and what Elio said about the HBO execs being satisfied with where he is right now, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he finishes TWOW by summer 2014, or some time later in the year.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
Cunningham's information can't be accurate because we heard from GRRM after that conversation supposedly took place where he said he was a 1/4 of the way done.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Basileus777 said:
Cunningham's information can't be accurate because we heard from GRRM after that conversation supposedly took place where he said he was a 1/4 of the way done.
Click to expand...

Actually he was rather vague
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5_QQreskNI

Understandable given how wrong he has been in the past; I can totally see him giving an actor a more honest answer while assuming he or she wouldn't mention it. We know about 250-300 pages were moved from ADWD, Last year I remember him saying he had written about 200 pages on top of that, so "about halfway done" seems quite logical for April/May 2013. And he told a Spanish magazine that 2014 is possible.
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.ph...f-winter-progress-in-grrm-interview-in-chile/

He told Conan that he's writing fast, and I haven't seen any indication that he has run into ADWD-esque problems. The Knot is finished.
 
D

Dresden

Member
PhoenixPause said:
Quick update on TWOW...

Liam Cunningham (Davos) did an interview a week ago with Throne Cast where he mentioned that Martin told him he's half way finished with the book; this was at the S3 premier back in late March/early April. He also told him something cool that happens to Davos in the book, perhaps to cheer him up for more "being locked in a cell" scenes. I hope the show does some liberal changes to Davos, perhaps even bringing him to the Wall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTUV6n2mOVY (around 6min mark)

Looking at Martin's schedule you'll notice he has a few upcoming events. His next one is Comic Con in late July, so he's had quite a lot of time recently at home. Interestingly, his last 2013 appearance is in November. After that he doesn't have anything on his calendar until May 30th 2014; obviously he'll be doing some S4 appearances in April or March but that's it. That's nearly 6 months of uninterrupted "me" time for him. Based on this and what Elio said about the HBO execs being satisfied with where he is right now, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he finishes TWOW by summer 2014, or some time later in the year.
Click to expand...

PhoenixPause said:
Actually he was rather vague
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5_QQreskNI

Understandable given how wrong he has been in the past; I can totally see him giving an actor a more honest answer while assuming he or she wouldn't mention it. We know about 250-300 pages were moved from ADWD, Last year I remember him saying he had written about 200 pages on top of that, so "about halfway done" seems quite logical for April/May 2013. And he told a Spanish magazine that 2014 is possible.
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.ph...f-winter-progress-in-grrm-interview-in-chile/

He told Conan that he's writing fast, and I haven't seen any indication that he has run into ADWD-esque problems. The Knot is finished.
Click to expand...

My hopes are being rustled.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
PhoenixPause said:
Quick update on TWOW...

Liam Cunningham (Davos) did an interview a week ago with Throne Cast where he mentioned that Martin told him he's half way finished with the book; this was at the S3 premier back in late March/early April. He also told him something cool that happens to Davos in the book, perhaps to cheer him up for more "being locked in a cell" scenes. I hope the show does some liberal changes to Davos, perhaps even bringing him to the Wall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTUV6n2mOVY (around 6min mark)

Looking at Martin's schedule you'll notice he has a few upcoming events. His next one is Comic Con in late July, so he's had quite a lot of time recently at home. Interestingly, his last 2013 appearance is in November. After that he doesn't have anything on his calendar until May 30th 2014; obviously he'll be doing some S4 appearances in April or March but that's it. That's nearly 6 months of uninterrupted "me" time for him. Based on this and what Elio said about the HBO execs being satisfied with where he is right now, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he finishes TWOW by summer 2014, or some time later in the year.
Click to expand...

He did say his goal was to finish the book in 2014.

Hope is forsaken in this lands, but judging by some recent info I think it may be a possibility.
 
C

Creamium

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
PhoenixPause said:
Quick update on TWOW...

Liam Cunningham (Davos) did an interview a week ago with Throne Cast where he mentioned that Martin told him he's half way finished with the book; this was at the S3 premier back in late March/early April. He also told him something cool that happens to Davos in the book, perhaps to cheer him up for more "being locked in a cell" scenes. I hope the show does some liberal changes to Davos, perhaps even bringing him to the Wall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTUV6n2mOVY (around 6min mark)

Looking at Martin's schedule you'll notice he has a few upcoming events. His next one is Comic Con in late July, so he's had quite a lot of time recently at home. Interestingly, his last 2013 appearance is in November. After that he doesn't have anything on his calendar until May 30th 2014; obviously he'll be doing some S4 appearances in April or March but that's it. That's nearly 6 months of uninterrupted "me" time for him. Based on this and what Elio said about the HBO execs being satisfied with where he is right now, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he finishes TWOW by summer 2014, or some time later in the year.
Click to expand...

This is good news. Not getting my hopes up or anything, but still good news.
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Even if it is finished in 2014, odds are it won't be released until 2015. There is still the editing, publishing, and printing of the book.

Anyone familiar with the book publishing/printing world know how long it takes a book like this to go through this process?
 
B

Basileus777

Member
PhoenixPause said:
Actually he was rather vague
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5_QQreskNI

Understandable given how wrong he has been in the past; I can totally see him giving an actor a more honest answer while assuming he or she wouldn't mention it. We know about 250-300 pages were moved from ADWD, Last year I remember him saying he had written about 200 pages on top of that, so "about halfway done" seems quite logical for April/May 2013. And he told a Spanish magazine that 2014 is possible.
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.ph...f-winter-progress-in-grrm-interview-in-chile/

He told Conan that he's writing fast, and I haven't seen any indication that he has run into ADWD-esque problems. The Knot is finished.
Click to expand...

GRRM said during the Season 3 premiere interviews (ie end of March 2013) that he had roughly one-quarter of the book done. Cunningham is likely remembering it incorrectly. GRRM told Conan that he was writing quickly and it seems like GRRM has gotten through most of his side projects so there is some reason for hope, but 2014 is probably still not realistic. Summer 2015 is what I've been thinking for the past two years and it's still probably the most likely target.

Besides, GRRM's own estimates are notoriously unreliable, 3rd hand information from an actor is probably not worth much, especially when it contradicts GRRM's own words.

Trojita said:
Even if it is finished in 2014, odds are it won't be released until 2015. There is still the editing, publishing, and printing of the book.

Anyone familiar with the book publishing/printing world know how long it takes a book like this to go through this process?
Click to expand...
GRRM due to his status can have an expedited process and doesn't have to wait for the printers to open up. They rushed ADWD through in IRRC 3 months, but I hope they actually take the time to edit it this time.
 
P

Pimpn Drop Bear

Neo Member
Ok so I know this thread is unmarked spoilers but I still feel weird typing it out in case someone clicks on the wrong thread (we've seen it happen) I read all the books in a gigantic marathon over about two weeks or so and am now in the process of reading more carefully having since read online about a hundred theories I had never even considered, my question is at the end of ADWD
varys killing pycelle and ser kevan
does anyone happen to own or have read the hardcover and softcover versions of this book? the reason I ask is I jumped to the back section of the softcover and this entire epilogue is missing, just wondering if I bought a dud or this is common practice? Seems like a pretty important part to leave out. This may be more a question about books in general haha please be gentle!
 
A

Archaeopteryx

Member
Pimpn Drop Bear said:
Ok so I know this thread is unmarked spoilers but I still feel weird typing it out in case someone clicks on the wrong thread (we've seen it happen) I read all the books in a gigantic marathon over about two weeks or so and am now in the process of reading more carefully having since read online about a hundred theories I had never even considered, my question is at the end of ADWD
varys killing pycelle and ser kevan
does anyone happen to own or have read the hardcover and softcover versions of this book? the reason I ask is I jumped to the back section of the softcover and this entire epilogue is missing, just wondering if I bought a dud or this is common practice? Seems like a pretty important part to leave out. This may be more a question about books in general haha please be gentle!
Click to expand...

That's weird o_O my first edition hardcover has the epilogue. I would imagine you have a misprint as it's a pretty important chapter to lead into the next book.

Edit: I should add I don't have the softcover version so I can't check and see if that is missing it or not.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
There's no need to be convinced, you're probably better off just forgetting it for a while and coming back in a few years and seeing if you have anymore interest then.
 
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