I am thinking of waiting until both of yhe next books are out...that way I don't have to wait it there is another shitty cliffhanger.
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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PhoenixDark
Banned
I'll still maintain it's logical for him to be nearly halfway done by late June
Considering he had 300 pages moved from ADWD it only makes sense.
Oh wow. So did I haha. How did Varys off him again?
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
Didn't he get shanked or his head got smashed in?
Admittedly Arya is way off doing her own thing at the moment, but Tyrion is going to be in the middle of one of the huge battles.
And you mention "only two characters left"... Did you like Jon Snow? Cause no one believes he's actually dead.
I think he stabbed him or smashed his head in or something.
Are you thinking Jon is actually dead? Because the consensus is pretty unanimous that his story isn't over. (looks like exYle beat me on that point) He's the only major character I can think of that 'died' after SOS other than the pointless Dornish or Ironborn.
I missed just about everything that wasn't blatantly mentioned while reading the books the first time but I still never thought Jon would actually die / stay dead after reading that chapter. I mean I guess GRRM could really be trolling and actually kill him off but it just seems unlikely from a story standpoint.
Or am I missing something, who else died in AFFC/ADWD that has you thinking it won't be worth continuing?
I'm excited for TWOW giving us all the conclusions ADWD didn't feel the need to include, even if I will probably have to yawn through more Dornish/Ironborn crap.
TestOfTide
Banned
There like 7-10 important characters that are with or near tyrion right now.
And there's also a good chance that this will be the book that confirms or denies if tyrion's dad was tywin.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Was Pycelle killed precisely to make it look like the Tyrell's did it out of spite for the confession of Margaery asking for birth control or because he is a Lannister shill. It could be both, though I'd like to know the prime motive, was it stated in the book?
I think Varys sent a bunch of his little kids to kill him...
TestOfTide
Banned
I'm assuming it was to make cersei more paranoid. It'll be interesting to finally see a new grand maester.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Gormon Tyrell is likely to be made the new Grand Maester. He is Mace's uncle. So yeah that will definitely cause a power rift.
platypotamus
Member
Samwell Tarley as new Grand Master.
Ok, not really, but Pycelle's death sets the stage nicely for Samwell to witness some cool political shit in Oldtown
Ok, not really, but Pycelle's death sets the stage nicely for Samwell to witness some cool political shit in Oldtown
He certainly finished off Kevan like that.
Ah, that's right. Got them mixed up.
The Albatross
Member
I just don't see how there can be any questioning that Tyrions dad is, infact, Tywin. It's a point that is so obviously made over and over again, and Tywin just doesn't seem like the kind of person who would permanently sully and hamstring his family to keep a mutilated dwarf in his household... Tyrion has been a recurring stain for the Lannisters, and even when he does the right thing (defending Kings Landing), he never gets the credit for it.
a) I don't know what evidence there is suggestion Tywin is not Tyrions father
b) If Tywin is not the father, it makes no sense that Tyrion is alive
There's no way Jon's role in the story ends with him being stabbed in the back by some Nights Watch assholes.
He's Azor Ahai reborn, for gods sake!
The evidence is that Aerys lusted after Tywin's wife and was known to be rapey, therefore he could have fathered Tyrion. Then there's the classic Tyrion=Targaryen arguments based on things like his hair being so blonde that it's almost white (like a Targaryen) and the fact that he's a fan of dragons. Some people also think that Tywin's hatred of Tyrion is based on the fact that he's not really his son and therefore resents him inheriting Casterly Rock.
Personally I think that's all bunk, and if it turned out that Tyrion isn't Tywin's son then their entire relationship loses all of its complexity. Tywin hates Tyrion because he looks down at what he sees as a disfigured dwarf and KNOWS that this is his son, a reflection of himself. That is what makes him resent Tyrion. Just as much as his birth causing Joanna's death, the whoring as a reminder of Tytos, etc.
Re-read the Prologue to ADWD. Then think back on Jon's situation.
If he is actually dead dead (and not warged into ghost or fire god raised or whatever), Martin is a fucking awful story teller.
The Albatross
Member
The prevailing idea is that:
1) Jon Survives, that the people who attack him -- his friends -- do so because they know it's the only way to keep him at the wall and prevent him from defecting (which would be a death sentence given how strict Stannis is with adhearing to the rules). While he's hurt/knocked out/whatever, it's done in a way that would injure him but not kill him. This is the one that I prefer. But I think it's the 2nd.
2) That Jon is murdered by his old buddies, and Melisandre revives him ALA Berric Dondarion & Thoros of Myr, and he fulfills the prophesy of Rhllor (sp). I think this is likely, but I'd prefer the first. I don't care for people dying and coming back, it's making death unimportant.
*edit*
3) Also that Jon wargs into a wolf and into something else. Hoping against this, but it could be likely too.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I think anyone can agree that regardless of how they bring him back, him actually being dead would be pretty bad.
Before Theon's Dance chapters I would've ranked the theory just below "Jeyne Westerling's been swapped with a lookalike!" In terms of stupidity, but after Theon's overly strenuous denials of kinslaying in Dance, it's moved into the category of exactly the sort of needless complication that GRRM would do.
Have to disagree on this one. A gang stabbing to the abdomen is not the way to go if your aim is to incapacitate. Even if you're all master assassins so knowledgeable of anatomy that you know all the nonfatal places to stab, if the victim squirms the wrong way during the stabbing, you're bound to knick something vital. If they wanted him merely out of commission then a club to shin bone seems wiser. That was murder, and I'd be disappointed if it were anything else. The plan to go all Julius Caesar had been brewing way longer than just Jon's plans to attack Ramsay.
I think he's dead and Melisandre will revive him, though it'll probably be more complicated than a simple Thoros/Beric. His soul being in Ghost has to complicate that somewhat.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
The problem with this (your no.1 theory) is that it wasn't Jon's friends who assassinated him. There's no mention of people like Pyp or Grenn being involved, instead It was the old guard, the people who argued against almost every decision he made and couldn't see that the wildlings were more dangerous if they were left on the other side of the wall to become wights. In fact, a big part of Jon's story was how he sent those closer to him away (Sam, Edd, the master at arms whose name I've forgotten), partly because he didn't want to be putting castles in the control of those who opposed him.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
Which came first? They're only short stories, you could breeze through all of them in an afternoon if you wished.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Dunk, lol, not Duck. And they're 3 novellas, short enough reads and well worth it. Do eeeet!
lol
Rawket Lawnchair
Member
At this point I am waiting for the next Dunk and Egg tale more than I am waiting for the next book. Bloodraven is a great character.
ToyMachine228
Member
Three chapters left in aDwD. Then it's on to Dunk & Egg and then...A huge void in my life.
Basileus777
Member
Dunk as in Duncan.
With the Tywin/Tyrion stuff I like to think of it as that Tywin suspected Aerys of sleeping with his wife and isn't sure whether Tyrion is his real son or not, add the fact that Tyrion is a dwarf and his mother died giving birth into it and Tywin suspects even more as he's the type of person who would think that it was impossible for him to have a son like that when you compare it to Jaime and Cersei.
That's my take on it anyway, whether he is or isn't no one will know for certain until the books state one way or the other.
That's my take on it anyway, whether he is or isn't no one will know for certain until the books state one way or the other.
That's the only explanation I've willing to accept, as it fits best in with the "taking liberties with Joanna on their wedding night" thing involving Aerys and isn't an obvious Tyrion plot-armor thing.
Tryion dying at the end of Winds and whoever survives the Cersei/Jaimie duel being the third head will be quite interesting, indeed.
Manmademan
Member
I think most assume that his body could not have survived the attack, but
1.) His conciousness could have fled into Ghost, or something. (i think melisandre had a vision of this- man to wolf to man, etc) or
2.) melisandre could simply raise him from the dead. this second one is actually interesting, since a resurrected jon is free from the vows of the night's watch.
Also, Stannis offered to legitimize jon and make him lord of winterfell if he wanted- so stannis perhaps isn't as strict about night's watch vows as you might think.
Laurentius
Member
Has anyone hear listened to the audio book for ADWD? I listened to A Clash of Kings and A Storm of Swords, and Roy Dotrice was awesome. I've heard that his performance is kind of lackluster in ADWD, though...is it mainly just that he changed some of the accents and pronunciations? Or is it just a poor reading all around?
Trying to decide whether I want to read or listen to it.
Trying to decide whether I want to read or listen to it.
The Albatross
Member
Incidentally, I just bought all 5 on Audible today. I had 6 credits and I'm thinking of canceling audible (thus losing my credits), so I bought the 5 books. Once the next book has a firmer release date (ie, "2015") I'll start listening to them.
Reading is still top notch, it is the change of voices that is irksome. The big one's that bothered me were:
a) The "Little Finger voice" is now Ramsey's voice. Nothing wrong with this, the two never meet so 'crafty" voice for Ramsey work
b) The killer is Bailish is now voiced with the Tywin voice (ermm,... Tyrion). Hurts so much. Thankfully Bailish doesn't have as many speaking parts as in previous books.
Still worth the listen.
Laurentius
Member
Thanks. Is Tyrion's accent still the same? That one bothered me at first (since I think I was used to Peter Dinklage) but it really grew on me. The other one I've heard that bothered people in ADWD is Arya's.
ToyMachine228
Member
So is Ser Robert Strong really is the reanimated corpse of The Mountain, how do we think the duel for Cersei's fate will go down? He'll win but get exposed as a corpse, further spiraling opinion of Cersei and the Lannisters?
Ser Robert knocks poor Ser Lancel's skull in. After that, Cersei will proclaim herself Queen regent again, while Mace Tyrell proclaims himself Lord Regent. With Tyrells and Lannisters at each others throat, Tommen, as the valonqar, will be forced to make a choice. He picks his lady wife's side and indirectly kills Cersei or something like that.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
The Hound is defeated by his brother, but not before removing Strong's head with a ferocious blow and revealing the melon contained within his helmet. Cersei takes this as a sign that Qyburn works for Tyrion and has him executed. Without the intervention of his creator, even the unholy magics sustaining Ser Robert cannot prevail against the damage inflicted by Sandor. Once again alone and without supporters, Cersei gets her drink on with a vengeance. Her constant state of inebriation causes her to remain oblivious to Tommen's growing obsession with kittens. Even Margeary, acquitted at her trial, is too busy with the members and affairs of her court to pay much attention to his games of chase with Ser Pounce, or the hooded foreigner with the ghastly scars and broken walking stick who supervises them. Also, one of the cats hangs out in the godswood and has a habit of jumping out and trying to knock Tommen to the ground every time he puts on his padding before practice in the yard.
That's as far as I see things progressing in the next book, book 7 will mostly cover the same events but from the perspective of the cat.
Pollux
Member
I'm with the other people in this thread saying that Jaime/Cersei are Aerys' kids and Tyrion is Tywin's only true born son.
CitizenVectron
Member
I would love to see Jaime, the person who started the entire mess with pushing Bran out the window, come full circle and be a Targaryen who saves Westeros.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
That just seems to silly a break. While and imp, and proportionally disfigured, doesn't he have the same golden hair all Lannisters do? I'd take that as evidence alone that the three are related by blood.
Least with the Lyana and Rhaegar stuff, Jon looking like Ned isn't that far fetched since he's still half a Stark.
Least with the Lyana and Rhaegar stuff, Jon looking like Ned isn't that far fetched since he's still half a Stark.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I'd be more apt to believe Jaime and Cersei are Targs than Tyrion; Tyrion is exactly like his father (Tywin). Personally I don't think any of them are Targs.
However I could see Tyrion being imprisoned by Dany, and let go after someone (Illyrio) claims he is a Targ. I've been thinking about how we'll find out Aegon is a fake, assuming he is of course. I can imagine Tyrion figuring it out if Illyrio or Varys attempt to convince Dany that her father raped Tywin's wife and produced a child.
However I could see Tyrion being imprisoned by Dany, and let go after someone (Illyrio) claims he is a Targ. I've been thinking about how we'll find out Aegon is a fake, assuming he is of course. I can imagine Tyrion figuring it out if Illyrio or Varys attempt to convince Dany that her father raped Tywin's wife and produced a child.
CrashBandicoot
Member
I remember his hair being a mix of brown and golden strands, not sure though.
Edit: Wiki says that's his beard, and his hair is "white-blonde"... Sounds Targaryan
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