Cats mother was of house Whent... they'd be quarter batman not secret targs lol... :^|
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
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Cats mother was of house Whent... they'd be quarter batman not secret targs lol... :^|
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I had a new theory, but not about Targs, but Wargs.
Theory: Wargs are made, not born. The Direwolf pups made wargs out of the Stark kids. Except maybe Sansa, since hers was killer early.
Why else would virtually all of them be wargs? Especialy if Jon, y'know...
Theory: Wargs are made, not born. The Direwolf pups made wargs out of the Stark kids. Except maybe Sansa, since hers was killer early.
Why else would virtually all of them be wargs? Especialy if Jon, y'know...
Ghost is secretly a dragon.
"was"? get out of my face with that nonsense.
Jon's same amount Stark as his cousins, through Lyanna. Wargism is a pretty well-established Stark trait, no? More prominent now because red comets and magic coming back generally.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Is it a Stark trait? I guess it could just be coming back due ot magic coming back. I wasn't aware that they had a history.
Speaking of things coming back, did that Direwolf come down from beyond the wall due to the Others? Because they were supposed to all be gone.
Steelyuhas
Member
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I'm unreasonably amused by the term "secret-targ"
lol wait I read you saying Jon was a Targ. 'Cuz Jon ain't dead obviously. My bad.
I want the White Walker Queen to look like this (artist depiction of an Other):
I would sympathize.
ToyMachine228
Member
Yeah you figure that a human once married a White Walker...they can't he too different from humans aesthetically.
Moff
Member
we have not seen that many different white walkers in the show, only 1 or maybe 2 actually. if the story demands that they actually need to be more elfish (which I think and hope), they can still introduce some "beautiful" ones in the future. but I liked the show walkers since episode 1.
PhoenixDark
Banned
The White Walkers on the show seem almost barbaric, whereas they seem more sophisticated in the novels. They wear armor, are skilled with weapons, and seem to have their own language (they laugh as they toy with Royce).
Martin has said so many times that he hates the idea of a "dark lord" with evil minions, but so far it seems like the White Walkers are basically that concept. There's gotta be something more to them. or a motive.
Martin has said so many times that he hates the idea of a "dark lord" with evil minions, but so far it seems like the White Walkers are basically that concept. There's gotta be something more to them. or a motive.
ToyMachine228
Member
I would also assume that if the White Walkers are human-like, that just like humans, they have different sects. Some that roam the woods, killing in barbaric fashion and others (no pun intended) who are more "civilized".
Also, pertaining to the epilogue scene of season one, are we sure that those are white walkers and not others? I'm not suggesting that they are, I'm legitimately asking, are we sure?
The Albatross
Member
A problem with the books and the show is that there isn't a good distinction between white walkers, wights, others, and whatever other snow monsters/creatures there are. After reading all 4 books (at the time), I did not know that there was a difference between white walkers and others... I thought some people called them others, some called them white walkers. Some seemed like reincarnated dead zombie people and some were more sophisticated than that.
It wasn't until I came and read tons of stuff online that I realized there were different classifications of "monsters from beyond the wall."
As far as I know, the TV show has simplified it, but it's still confusing. The creature that you see at the beginning of Season 1 is sophisticated: they create that bizarre burial ground. At the same time, they aren't the monster creatures from the end of season 2 and Sam's interaction in Season 3.
I think more time should have been taken with coming up with a consistent visual identity. But, part of that is also that the books aren't finished -- you don't know where GRRM is going with it.
It wasn't until I came and read tons of stuff online that I realized there were different classifications of "monsters from beyond the wall."
As far as I know, the TV show has simplified it, but it's still confusing. The creature that you see at the beginning of Season 1 is sophisticated: they create that bizarre burial ground. At the same time, they aren't the monster creatures from the end of season 2 and Sam's interaction in Season 3.
I think more time should have been taken with coming up with a consistent visual identity. But, part of that is also that the books aren't finished -- you don't know where GRRM is going with it.
radios shipping overview
Member
I never felt like the show Others were differentiated enough from zombies or liches. They basically look like wights with a little more intelligence.
In the books, "white walkers" are just what the wildlings call the Others. In the show they used the one name for them (partly thanks to Lost). I don't recall the show referring to the wights by name, which only adds to the ambiguity.
It could be that the show is just treating every inhuman being from north of the Wall as some kind of undead.
In the books, "white walkers" are just what the wildlings call the Others. In the show they used the one name for them (partly thanks to Lost). I don't recall the show referring to the wights by name, which only adds to the ambiguity.
It could be that the show is just treating every inhuman being from north of the Wall as some kind of undead.
Moff
Member
yes they are. the creature from the begining of season 1, the ond of season 2 and sams interaction in season 3 are all white walker (= others). the one from season 2 and 3 is even the very same one.
the show did simplify it by calling the white walkers only white walkers and never the others.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I thought it was pretty simple to understand in the books, and the show. The...things in the prologue of the first book are different from all the other things in later books, unless I'm forgetting something. All the wights are described as risen dead people, from the Nights Watch ones that attack Mormont to the ones that try to kill Bran outside the cave in ADWD. But that's very different from what's seen in the first prologue, or the woman the Nights King fell in love with, or the Others that Old Nan describes as having blades of ice that can destroy steel.
Likewise in the show the White Walkers look like frozen Tarzans, whereas the wights are risen dead. And in S3's finale Sam mentions that for every one White Walker there are 100 risen dead men.
Likewise in the show the White Walkers look like frozen Tarzans, whereas the wights are risen dead. And in S3's finale Sam mentions that for every one White Walker there are 100 risen dead men.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I never understood why there was confusion. The creatures in the prologue are very clearly not human, whereas the wights are very clearly undead humans. Hell the book prologue itself shows Waymar Royce rising back as a wight and you immediately know it's due to the power of the Others.
The Albatross
Member
I wish that they kept the same treatment of the White WAlkers from that first episode... They seem a lot more elegant, a lot more "human" than the monster-like frozen rock face thing with blue eyes from Season 2 and 3. The creature that cuts that guys head off looks agile and swift and he's wearing clothes. And maybe they have agile and swift ones, too, but from what we saw at the end of S2... they all looked like ice monsters from a DC comic book.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Yeah I don't like the wizened treebark creatures myself. I wanted those awe-inspiring ice creatures from the books, or at least the Uruk-hai lookalikes from S1 (though they were clearly lacking the "white" part of a white walker, lol, but at least they looked badass).
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I tend to doubt most viewers are even aware there's a difference between the Walkers and the wights.
Posted? Excerpt from a new short story. Follow the link.
http://www.tor.com/stories/2013/07/dangerous-women-george-r-r-martin-excerpt
PhoenixDark
Banned
He delayed it, and replaced it with the story mentioned above; if I had to bet I'd say that story was taken out of the world book he's doing with Elio & Linda. Martin recently said he won't return to Dunk & Egg until TWOW is finished.
I think he's explicitly said that that's the case. It was originally one of the articles for the world book, that then ballooned into a hundred page behemoth as he wrote it, so he spun it off into its own novella. And then I guess beyond that there were a lot of smaller things cut from the world book that'll only be released after the series is done.
Yup, I'm waiting until they're all in one place, I don't mind the wait for them, it's nice to have another story to read as well.
bone_and_sinew
breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
I find it rather interesting that during the death of most dragons, House Hightower was the house of highest standing in the royal fold (outside the Targaryens themselves of course). The house that founded and protects The Citadel, a place currently with an anti-magic agenda...
Preview is interdasting.
I think House Hightower is gonna play a big part in the story in the next installments.
The Lord or Hightower is doing some crazy shit up in his tower. Not to mention the fact that Hightower is perhaps the most powerful vassal house in the Seven Kingdoms with as much gold as the Lannisters. Also keep in mind that Hightower is actually a house descended from the First Men, so for all we know, the tower is actually a giant Werewood tree in disguise.
I think House Hightower is gonna play a big part in the story in the next installments.
The Lord or Hightower is doing some crazy shit up in his tower. Not to mention the fact that Hightower is perhaps the most powerful vassal house in the Seven Kingdoms with as much gold as the Lannisters. Also keep in mind that Hightower is actually a house descended from the First Men, so for all we know, the tower is actually a giant Werewood tree in disguise.
bone_and_sinew
breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
From the review:
FUUUUUUU more secret Targaryens
FUUUUUUU more secret Targaryens
The story was great and all this is fascinating stuff. Sam is at the Citadel, Part of Euron's fleet is about to attack the Citadel, Euron seems interested in making Dany his bride and getting control of the dragons. Obligatory:
PhoenixDark
Banned
There's a good description on westeros as to why that isn't true:
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.ph...cess-and-the-queen/page__st__280#entry4777276I'm not quite sure why anyone would take this as "confirmation" of anything, actually.The reviewer points out that this story, related by a maester, tries to paint the Targaryens as sort of demigod-esque, and the reviewer apparently quotes the Archmaster as describing the Targaryens being "rightly regarded as being closer to gods than the common run of men". But she also contrasts Archamester Gyldayn's "remote, magical" portrayal of the Targs with the much different, POV-based portrayals of the Targaryens seen in Dunk and Egg (as well as the main book line), which sounds like pretty clear evidence that GRRM means for Gyladayn's understanding of the Targaryens' "nature" to be viewed as quite fallible. It's not really a secret that the Targs had people believing you need Targaryen blood to ride a dragon, so "Archmaester Gyldayn's" claim there certainly isn't confirmation that Targ blood is necessary to ride a dragon. (When the person saying the Targs had special blood is also saying the Targs were closer to gods than men---something which readers know to be incorrect---the point is to examine the "special blood" idea critically rather than simply taking the claim for gospel.)
Realistically, the Targs would have had to pursue "dragonseed" dragonriders even if Targ blood was 100% unnecessary to dragonriding. I mean, logically: if you don't need Targ blood to ride a dragon, were the Targs ever going to admit that, or allow any evidence to arise that that might be the case? It would have guaranteed the end of their dynasty, no matter which Targ initially came out on top. If they needed new dragonriders, the only way to gain them without shooting the entire dynasty in the metaphorical foot was to either target Targ bastards or to target non-Targs while telling everyone they were Targ bastards.
The only thing this confirms is that the Targs had people in Westeros believing their blood was necessary for dragonriding, which we already knew from the main narrative.
Martin seems quite interested in the unreliable narrator POV with this, as well as the book he's doing with Elio & Linda. I'd imagine Valyrian blood certainly can help with respect to dragon taming (see: Brown Plumm) but I don't think it's required.
Blue Ninja
Member
PhoenixDark
Banned
Martin recently said it will be apart of another book, which he and fans have labeled GRRMarrillion
http://grrm.livejournal.com/331218.html#comments
The preview was great, and the review was even more tantalizing. Sounds like it's going to be his most "high fantasy" work, with big ass dragon battles n shit.
Imagine if Victarion's horn really does take control of the two dragons, resulting in them vs Dany/Drogon at some point. That would be insane.
This is one of the best portmanteaus I've ever heard A+
Hmm..
I'm a little over 600 pages into ADWD (US Hardcover) and I'm really enjoying it. Might be that I knew there weren't going to be any major climactic moments going into the read.. but I definitely don't understand the hate it gets. There is great character development, quite a few nice surprises, and my god, the food!
OK, the last one was a jape.. but nonetheless, this is probably my second favorite behind ASOS. At the very least it's on par with the others.
I'm a little over 600 pages into ADWD (US Hardcover) and I'm really enjoying it. Might be that I knew there weren't going to be any major climactic moments going into the read.. but I definitely don't understand the hate it gets. There is great character development, quite a few nice surprises, and my god, the food!
OK, the last one was a jape.. but nonetheless, this is probably my second favorite behind ASOS. At the very least it's on par with the others.
bone_and_sinew
breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
She could just give to whoever plays Aegon a couple seasons from now.
Blue Ninja
Member
As long as she takes it off.
Dat Frey Pie.
Yeah, cannibalism is very frequent in ADWD. I didn't enjoy this book as the first three because it was too focused in Essos and I don't really care much about that stuff, since Daenerys is dull and doesn't do much of interest in Mereen and I don't think her character developed while rulling that place compared to how I warmed to Jon after him being lord commander, he does grow up while rulling and everything is better at the wall, lots of things happening there and the relation it has with the northern politics too.
PS. Theon chapters there are the best ever written, comparable to the perfect Jaime chapters in ASOS
The Albatross
Member
meh. Wait till you get through the final 600 pages. I liked ADWD while reading it, until I got like ~200 or 300 pages from the end and realized that none of the stories that I wanted progress on were getting any progress.
I finished ADWD last week and really enjoyed it. So much more than A Feast For Crows. A Storm of Swords is still my favorite of the bunch, but ADWD was very good, but there were definitely some characters and storylines I weren't that interested in, like Quentyn Martell.
I put off reading it for the longest time, because I wanted to be closer to the release of the sixth book, but my resolve broke and I said the hell with it.
I put off reading it for the longest time, because I wanted to be closer to the release of the sixth book, but my resolve broke and I said the hell with it.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
And now your watch begins.
I wish the D&E stories could be purchased as a set of stories, rather than spread out over a bunch of them.
I'm pretty sure I saw that once the last has been published you'll be able to get them as a set. Which unfortunately (obviously) requires waiting for the last one.
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