Okay cool. I can wait. I just don't feel inclined to buy ruddy great anthologies to get them
Thanks!
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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Okay cool. I can wait. I just don't feel inclined to buy ruddy great anthologies to get them
Thanks!
Okay cool. I can wait. I just don't feel inclined to buy ruddy great anthologies to get them
Thanks!
Yeah, I'm with you on that. I'm interested in reading them but I'm not interested in buying several anthologies that I don't care about overall.
Chuckie
Member
It is not shown, but it is mentioned quite a lot. Everytime he thinks about his brother... he recalls having been 'forced' to beat his wife to death.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
This just isn't fair.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=76350015#post76350015
Curse them for not killing her in S4 so we could make the proper jokes in the open!
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=76350015#post76350015
Curse them for not killing her in S4 so we could make the proper jokes in the open!
King Allant
Member
lol just saw that
"God's Beard!"
Member
"Who could replace a Man of the Night’s Watch?"
Probably anybody.
Probably anybody.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Yup. Annoying but understandable. I'd imagine more people buy those anthologies for D&E than anything else, so it helps the thing sell which isn't a bad thing.
I like how Martin doesn't even give any Winds of Winter updates on his blog anymore. He's at a point where he just may lose readers to disinterest as they just watch the show instead of waiting for the next book.
I secretly hope the book will be ready for a Winter 14/Spring 15 release
But then I remember that NFL season is about to start.NFC East needs to step their fucking game up and make sure the Giants finish in last place well out of the playoff picture.
Jack Scofield
Member
What killed this thread more? The end of the television season or the move to Community?
PhoenixDark
Banned
The last TWOW update we got was a few months ago from Elio, noting he read a Sansa chapter that will be "controversial." Martin tends to post more about the books in the fall during football season.
This thread nosedived when we got banished to community
Jack Scofield
Member
Community claims another victim. EviLore won't be satisfied until all the fun threads are killed in no man's land. First Pics that Make You Laugh, now the superior GOT thread.
Sad times, man.
Lack of news and stuff to discuss. You can only debate whether a character is a secret targ or not so much and before long you run out of characters to point out.
There's only so much to discussion to be had on an old book series. ADWD has already been out for over 2 years.
Seriously.
The Spoiler TV Thread picks up whenever new casting info comes out though, or when we convert another TV only person to the superior book cause.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Hehehe <3
We haven't discussed the possibility of secret Lannisters, Starks, Baratheons or Tully's.
Forsaken82
Member
Or he finally decided it was time to shut himself off from the outside world and actually write the book?
King Allant
Member
nah, he probably discover idolmaster and playing it with kentaro miura right now
which idol is GRRM's waifu?
King Allant
Member
I think Sansa is going towards the dark side. She may not trick Littlefinger like some are expecting but may actually decide to join him.
Blue Ninja
Member
She's gonna seduce him, kill him, and marry the heir to the Vale.
Or she decides to become little Robin's new mother. And yes,that includes letting him suck.
Controversial sounds like there'll be sex involved... Littlefinger might get what he wants finally?
Anyway, if a releasedate doesn't get announced soon enough I might just drop this bookseries. Feels like the last 2 books were mostly filler and he's just milking it dry.
Compared to for instance Abercrombie who since 2006 managed to put out 6 books in his First Law series (3 main, and 3 stand alone, something GRRM should maybe look into btw, and finish the main story, and having his world building done as standalone books). All of which were concise, and to the point, and came out in a timely manner.
Hell, GRRM's assistant has been able to write a book per year, plus a Han Solo Star Wars novell, during the past 3....
Eh... Sorry for the rant.
If that means him marrying Sansa off to Harry and she is about to get bedded, then yes. If you mean that Littlefinger gets to use his littlefinger on Sansa, then god no... I hope.
Because the books would be so much better if Martin started pumping out the books at the rate of someone who is like thirty years younger than himself? The last thing we need is a bad conclusion to the series because the final books were rushed. As for being fillers, I disagree, but that might stem from having different expectations on it when reading. ( Abercrombie is a good author, but I can't say I even remotely enjoy his books as much as I enjoy Martin's. )
I am in it for the journey and because I love Martin's writing which is why I don't really care much if the TV series gets to the ending first ( well, I'd prefer it not to ). It was never about the ending, but the way there. Certainly there was some awful hick-up with the release of the last two books that went beyond GRRM simply being a slow writer ( and more to do with him being a poor planner ) and hopefully the next book won't take quite as long as that. Last we heard he was making good progress.
Also, GRRM does have stand alone's set in Westeros, Dunk & Egg, though they are novellas and thus quite short, but concise and to the point, if that's your preference.
What GRRM does is take all the Stark kids on a different road to some kind of role in power.
Arya becomes a master assassin.
Jon becomes a leader of men like his father.
Bran becomes atree internet service provider sage.
Sansa becomes a master manipulator.
Rickon, well, I dunno, becomes something something. Maybe a seafaring smuggler.
Arya becomes a master assassin.
Jon becomes a leader of men like his father.
Bran becomes a
Sansa becomes a master manipulator.
Rickon, well, I dunno, becomes something something. Maybe a seafaring smuggler.
Or they all become their father, IE beheaded
@Reyne:
I might have gone a bit overboard with the rant.
But I seriously didn't feel Feast needed the ironborn, it added nothing to the story that one chapter of other characters discussing the attacks wouldn't have added, like he did with Robb in Clash.
Same with adding so much of the Martells, or even having the p.o.v. following prince Quentyn in Dance, that had no payoff other than him dying pointlessly.
Don't get me wrong about the deaths, I don't mind him killing of major characters, like Eddard, Robb etc, cause they had major consequences, the Quentyn dying, not so much, was quite slow following him, and when he died, well didn't do anything for me, and I couldn't see any major consequences of him dying.
Or to add for Dance, following "Aegon", also inconsequential, specially if the mummers dragon prophecy is true.
This all in contrast to the first 3 books who were all concise, didn't feel like there was any filler, every chapter and page had a point. The last 2 books just forced the story into a screeching halt, and these are the two that took the longest for him to write.
I lost my train of thought 3 times while writing this reply so no clue what my point is really, so I'll just say, I'd really like Winds of Winter to come out soon, and hopefully be better than the last two.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
I never really got the complaints about the Ironborn or (to a lesser extent) the Dornish. It's pretty clear he's setting them up to be big players in the final act(s), which necessitates a bit more character exposition and exploration. I guess because both are largely self contained? Some of the chapters (like Damphair's) could definitely have done with a decent trim, but the same could be said for almost every other part of Feast and Dance.
Paganmoon: Fair enough. You are not the first to dislike the Ironborn/Martell arc, though I think we would know a lot less about Westeros in general without them. I think Asha's and Theon's arc are definitely necessary ( with Theon's arc being one of my favorite in Dance ), and while Victarion may be dull, his chapters are packed with action. I do agree that Damphair is pretty tedious, though I remember Martin telling us that something shocking would happen in a sample chapter he was about to read, though everyone elected to have him read Arianne instead.
Though I don't agree that Quentyn or Aegon are inconsequential. Tidings of Quentyns death will make it hard for the Martells to side with Daenerys, should it come to it, and they will likely side with Aegon instead. ( We are already seeing this unfolding in the Arianne sample chapters ).
Likewise Aegon isn't inconsequential. He has a army and a head start on taking on Westeros. He may be fake, but he won't go away just because of that. If anything, the mummers dragon prophecy tells us that the people of Westeros will be cheering on the 'mummers dragon'.
Of course, all of this ties into the Meereenese knot that Martin have been trying to resolve for some time now. I am guessing in his mind, he simply cannot rush through Daenerys arc and just have her land on Westeros without the proper build-up or even have a bunch of strangers show up in Meereen out of the blue.
Though I don't agree that Quentyn or Aegon are inconsequential. Tidings of Quentyns death will make it hard for the Martells to side with Daenerys, should it come to it, and they will likely side with Aegon instead. ( We are already seeing this unfolding in the Arianne sample chapters ).
Likewise Aegon isn't inconsequential. He has a army and a head start on taking on Westeros. He may be fake, but he won't go away just because of that. If anything, the mummers dragon prophecy tells us that the people of Westeros will be cheering on the 'mummers dragon'.
Of course, all of this ties into the Meereenese knot that Martin have been trying to resolve for some time now. I am guessing in his mind, he simply cannot rush through Daenerys arc and just have her land on Westeros without the proper build-up or even have a bunch of strangers show up in Meereen out of the blue.
Paganmoon: Fair enough. You are not the first to dislike the Ironborn/Martell arc, though I think we would know a lot less about Westeros in general without them. I think Asha's and Theon's arc are definitely necessary ( with Theon's arc being one of my favorite in Dance ), and while Victarion may be dull, his chapters are packed with action. I do agree that Damphair is pretty tedious, though I remember Martin telling us that something shocking would happen in a sample chapter he was about to read, though everyone elected to have him read Arianne instead.
Though I don't agree that Quentyn or Aegon are inconsequential. Tidings of Quentyns death will make it hard for the Martells to side with Daenerys, should it come to it, and they will likely side with Aegon instead. ( We are already seeing this unfolding in the Arianne sample chapters ).
Likewise Aegon isn't inconsequential. He has a army and a head start on taking on Westeros. He may be fake, but he won't go away just because of that. If anything, the mummers dragon prophecy tells us that the people of Westeros will be cheering on the 'mummers dragon'.
Of course, all of this ties into the Meereenese knot that Martin have been trying to resolve for some time now. I am guessing in his mind, he simply cannot rush through Daenerys arc and just have her land on Westeros without the proper build-up or even have a bunch of strangers show up in Meereen out of the blue.
It's not a dislike of the Ironborn in general, the Theon chapters were great. It was mostly with the Kingsmoot and the like. Again to compare to the earlier books GRRM could put major characters and situations out of reach of the pov characters, but still make them interesting, in the latest books everything has been pulled to the forefront it seemed, and a lot of it didn't have to, it felt, and now I'm going into major speculation/conspiracy mode, but it felt like he artificially padded the books by doing so.
Quentyn dying could have consequences yes, but did we have to have pov characters that followed him for that many chapters?
We get told about Martells plan in Feast, and in Dance Quentyn dies, did we need everything surrounding it? if so, why didn't we need this in for instance Clash, concerning Robb?
Same with Aegon? Couldn't these have been handled by triming the books a bit and adding them into other pov's that simply talk about them, as he did in the earlier books?
I was overly dramatic saying I'd give up on the books, ofcourse I'll read them, they're amongst my favorite books of all time, which is also why I'm getting so critical against them, and go on rants. I do it out of love
Indeed. I do wonder how he could have pulled them off differently, but as it stands, the rest of Westeros are quite isolated from the Ironborn/Martells and naturally only know a little about what they are up to. For instance, the pact to marry Viserys/Daenerys and that the Martells are still supporters of the Targaryen is still a secret. Basically I think it was important for Martin to set us up with these characters and that their arcs will have far-reaching consequences.
Well it showed us how one might go about traveling from Westeros to Essos, the inner workings of mercenary companies and the fact that Quentyn was indeed a person, with all complexities of one, and not some random guy from Dorne that manages to release Daenerys dragons.*shrug* Quentyn is either a hit or miss for most I guess.
Actually, I would have loved a Robb pov. But beggars can't be choosers. The show focused more on his perspective though I would say book Robb is different...
Actually, I loved reading about Tyrion piecing together that 'Young Griff' was a Targaryen ( or a stand-in for one ) and I found his interaction with Aegon interesting and perhaps symbolical. Tyrion also shows his cunning by personally make Aegon go west instead of east. And then there is Connington, another character I find interesting. I rather liked the whole gig with the Golden Company, and they were rather quick to take Griffins Roost. Way faster than anything Daenerys ever did at any rate
I was overly dramatic saying I'd give up on the books, ofcourse I'll read them, they're amongst my favorite books of all time, which is also why I'm getting so critical against them, and go on rants. I do it out of love
I hear you. We all go on rants here and it is not always to sing Martin's praises.
Re: Your arguments on Quentyn and Aegon. very good points.
I guess the stories just didn't resonate well with me on some level, don't know if it was due to them both being younger princes who believed they were entitled, or were meant for greatness, so perhaps not the writing that bothered me but the characters, which in itself is fine, I suppose, tons of those in the books.
But regarding the Ironborn and Martells in Feast, I still feel they could've been handled in a better way that didn't halt the story as much. Or maybe not halting, putting it on a detour. Personally I could've done without them.
Going back to Sansa tho.
I wouldn't find the first option very controversial though, not rooting for either or of those options, just think if it's going to be controversial, it's going to be the second option.
I guess the stories just didn't resonate well with me on some level, don't know if it was due to them both being younger princes who believed they were entitled, or were meant for greatness, so perhaps not the writing that bothered me but the characters, which in itself is fine, I suppose, tons of those in the books.
But regarding the Ironborn and Martells in Feast, I still feel they could've been handled in a better way that didn't halt the story as much. Or maybe not halting, putting it on a detour. Personally I could've done without them.
Going back to Sansa tho.
I wouldn't find the first option very controversial though, not rooting for either or of those options, just think if it's going to be controversial, it's going to be the second option.
As of my first reading I completely agreed with you about all the Dornish and Ironborn chapters. After a second read and some more time to think about where things are going (and knowing what to expect from the books) I felt that overall the Martell chapters were more useful.
Except Quentyn, his chapters add nothing to the overall story - yes, they give us glimpses of the world at large but nothing we learn from his POV couldn't have been covered by other characters and in many cases we see the same things explored by other characters already - his POV is a waste of space. Space that, had it been cut, might have allowed for some much more interesting chapters that got pushed to Winds.
As for the Ironborn, I think most of them had a purpose and are building to something. However, the Damphair chapter was completely unnecessary and did not show us anything we didn't learn in about a paragraph through other characters' POVs. As far as I'm concerned, even if he does something later, his POV should have been cut out as well.
And then there were a few other POVs that were just throw aways like Arys Oakheart.
Edit: As for the Sansa / Littlefinger bit: we all know that Littlefinger wants to have sex with Sansa, the question is will he let his lust for her overcome his lust for power?
PhoenixDark
Banned
I don't think LF would assault Sansa. If there's one thing about LF that's clear after 5 books it's that he's very patient and always thinking ahead. He may want Sansa but her maidenhead is more valuable intact than otherwise. I suppose he could do something else to her, but I just don't see it happening.
Especially considering he's going to hear about Aegon soon enough, at which point his preference may be to get rid of Harry The Heir.
Especially considering he's going to hear about Aegon soon enough, at which point his preference may be to get rid of Harry The Heir.
Yeah, that's my take as well. He might want her, but I think his interest in raising himself higher in the world will win out against his boyhood dream of having Cat / Cat 2.0. If he couldn't keep it in his pants, it probably would have already happened.
There are plenty of other shocking/controversial things that could happen in the chapter but who knows; maybe LF does throw it all away for 5 minutes of horribly uncomfortable [to read] passion.
I wasn't suggesting assault though, might be Sansa warms to him... don't know, just figured controversial, GRRM, asoif -> sex.
I might have a dirty mind though (or it's you guys who have the dirty mind....)
PhoenixDark
Banned
I think the controversy will be something Sansa does. Killing Sweet Robin for instance.
Steelyuhas
Member
It is known.
I'm really curious about this controversial bit about Sansa. I have no idea what GRRM will do with her character, if he's going to maintain her purity throughout the series, or turn her into a smarter Cersei. I'm also really intrigued as to how her memory lapses will play a role in the story. They haven't really been important, just something that makes you go, "Ok ........"
I'm definitely hoping Sansa is the "younger more beautiful" queen who will usurp Cersei. Of the four most obvious options, Sansa getting back at Cersei seems like it'd be the most satisfying (albeit kind of out of character for Sansa - though I suppose the prophecy doesn't say anything about her killing Cersei)
I'm definitely hoping Sansa is the "younger more beautiful" queen who will usurp Cersei. Of the four most obvious options, Sansa getting back at Cersei seems like it'd be the most satisfying (albeit kind of out of character for Sansa - though I suppose the prophecy doesn't say anything about her killing Cersei)
Glad that someone got it.
<3 Stannis. He is the king in my kingdom (lol that was weird)
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I'm sure she'll remember what Littlefinger did to Lysa. It'll be sweetly ironic if the guilt of tossing Sweet Robin off the cliff falls on Petyr.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Now that Tywin is dead (even though he was never in line for king), Stannis is definitely the most competent (and awesome) of the people contending for the throne.
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