timetokill
Banned
I was kind of thinking/hoping he'd just become the Stark's version of Gregor Clegane. Him living on cannibal island, along with his ... current tendencies, tie neatly into that.
Unfortunate that the time jump didn't work out.
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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I was kind of thinking/hoping he'd just become the Stark's version of Gregor Clegane. Him living on cannibal island, along with his ... current tendencies, tie neatly into that.
Unfortunate that the time jump didn't work out.
Sorry, I wasn't clear in my quote response, I just meant I didn't think he'd have sex with her in general. Assault or no (and regardless of how much he'd like to), he has more to gain by using her and her claims as a bargaining chip and he realizes that. Though since you brought it up, I don't see Sansa willingly having sex with him so I guess that takes it back to assault.
I think Littlefinger wants to win it all and he also wants Sansa. I believe Littlefinger intends to have a son through Sansa that will sit the Iron Throne. The first thing he has to do is establish Sansa as the main power in the North through her connections with Winterfell, Vale, and Riverrun. Then he has to connect her to the South somehow. I think this is either through marriage with Aegon or supporting Daenerys. Whoever he intends to support, he ultimately intends to overthrow. Harry the Heir sounds like a goner to me unless he is heir to more than we realize.
I saw a theory on reddit recently that said that rather than R + L = J, Benjen + L = J, and that this is why he joined the Night's Watch and why he took such a liking to Jon Snow.
I'm not sure what to take of it, but it's at least interesting. Plus I hate R + L = J, so any alternative to it sounds good to me.
I'm not sure what to take of it, but it's at least interesting. Plus I hate R + L = J, so any alternative to it sounds good to me.
Basileus777
Member
I don't think it was possible for Benjen to be the father due to timeline reasons. He was in Winterfell the whole war.
Indeed, and Lianna was kidnapped for about 1,5 years considering the timing of the rebellion. Even possibly 2 years while Jon was born at the ultimate end of the war.
ToyMachine228
Member
Shaggydog is going to grow so large that Rickon will ride him into battle and slay all three of Dany's dragons from his back.
RukusProvider
Banned
I wonder if Jaime will evolve into Tywin. Sacrifice Cersi and that would be the final trigger for him to become as cold as Tywin to preserve the family's dominance.
ToyMachine228
Member
That wouldn't really fit with his character arc. In the beginning he's portrayed as a douche, but you slowly gain respect for him and see that he does have a chivalrous side. Or develops one. Having him turn cold toward the end of his arc wouldn't really make sense.
EDIT: Its more likely that Tyrion evolves into Tywin than Jaime. Except Tyrion despises his own family, so he would gladly kill them too. If he has children however, and lives on like a boss, that may be how Lannister remains prominent.
Steelyuhas
Member
No, I think there's a very intentional contrasting of the likelihood of Ned's children ultimately saving the family/gaining power and Tywin's children losing the family's power.
Orbis Tabula
Member
I was behind the show by the time the latest season ended but as of today I have finished all the books. Goddamn, how long do I have to wait for more!? D:
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Just finished book 5. Good, although I was pretty bored with Theon/Ramsay. Seems like they had to add Ramsay as soon as they offed Joff.
Bringing back Gregor is bullshit. I know that Martin doesn't want these stories to be classic good v. evil affairs, but I think that evil wins out almost a bit too much. It's almost predictable: If it isn't express stated that the person is dead, they're alive.
But really this is the most complicated series I've ever read. Overall I've loved it, though there are too many characters for me to keep track. Family names can also be very similar. Tyrell, Tarly, etc.
On some of the characters:
Tyrion might be my favorite character.
If Jon is actually dead, which I doubt, he almost deserved it for how moronic he acted.
And oh yeah, Brienne is fucking boring.
Cersei is like a freaking cartoon villain with how invincible she is.
Jaime is sort of likeable, but his character only changed because he couldn't be as alpha as before his hand was chopped off and was pissed because Cersei cheated on him. Still not completely likeable.
Arya is murky. I missed how she killed the man by giving him the coin.
Robb was boring, as was Catelyn.
Sansa is going to take the throne from Cersei/Tommen, obviously.
I'm guessing Bran takes over one of the dragons before the books are over.
Davos and Barristan are awesome. True loyalty.
No idea where they're going with Rickon.
Bringing back Gregor is bullshit. I know that Martin doesn't want these stories to be classic good v. evil affairs, but I think that evil wins out almost a bit too much. It's almost predictable: If it isn't express stated that the person is dead, they're alive.
But really this is the most complicated series I've ever read. Overall I've loved it, though there are too many characters for me to keep track. Family names can also be very similar. Tyrell, Tarly, etc.
On some of the characters:
Tyrion might be my favorite character.
If Jon is actually dead, which I doubt, he almost deserved it for how moronic he acted.
And oh yeah, Brienne is fucking boring.
Cersei is like a freaking cartoon villain with how invincible she is.
Jaime is sort of likeable, but his character only changed because he couldn't be as alpha as before his hand was chopped off and was pissed because Cersei cheated on him. Still not completely likeable.
Arya is murky. I missed how she killed the man by giving him the coin.
Robb was boring, as was Catelyn.
Sansa is going to take the throne from Cersei/Tommen, obviously.
I'm guessing Bran takes over one of the dragons before the books are over.
Davos and Barristan are awesome. True loyalty.
No idea where they're going with Rickon.
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A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
Pretty sure Gregor's dead, Qyburn has just re-animated his headless corpse.
The guy would bite his coins to see if they were real. Arya poisoned one of them.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Holy shit of that's what happened to Gregor. And that makes sense, thanks.
Oh lord. Now release the damn thing! I want more Jeyne WesterlingWas this not discussed? I went back a few pages and didn't see it posted.
Steelyuhas
Member
A Song of Ice and Fire, or, If Only the Baratheon Brothers Had Even Mildly Tolerated One Anothers Presence
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Interesting quote from George, gimmie dat book!
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Interesting quote from George, gimmie dat book!
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, Qyburn gets up to some pretty disturbing business. The way Cersei supplies him with people that inconvenience her is just as you said, almost cartoonishly evil. I think the evidence for the headless Gregor thing is pretty strong:
- The Dornish receive a giant skull that seems pretty convincing to them.
- IIRC, the new King's guard doesn't talk, eat, drink or remove his helmet in front of anyone.
- Bran has a dream in GoT about some figures whose descriptions seem to match Jaime and the Hound, plus a third figure who is described as a looming stone giant who has nothing but dark blood underneath his helmet (or something like that).
I just finished a re-reading of all of the books and I have to say Feast of Crows was better than I remember. I like Dance with Dragons more as well and the Ironborn stuff felt a less jarring when giving it a second pass. I do get the sense they are condensing all of that down quite a bit for the show.
It was kind of surprised at how many things have merged for me between the show and the books. There are some things I wish the show would expand further on, I want a spin-off of the Arya and the Hound show.
I wish I could read the last two books combined, I understand why he went about splitting them up that way, but I would have rather it was a sequential read and just split it in half. There wouldn't have been a great cliffhanger at the end of Feast, but I didn't really feel there was anyway.
So, when does this next book come out? I'm ready and I don't feel like reading them all again. And I want to see Bran get a vision of past Ned letting slip the secret about Jon. Perhaps just leave off the feast descriptions and we can get it sooner.
It was kind of surprised at how many things have merged for me between the show and the books. There are some things I wish the show would expand further on, I want a spin-off of the Arya and the Hound show.
I wish I could read the last two books combined, I understand why he went about splitting them up that way, but I would have rather it was a sequential read and just split it in half. There wouldn't have been a great cliffhanger at the end of Feast, but I didn't really feel there was anyway.
So, when does this next book come out? I'm ready and I don't feel like reading them all again. And I want to see Bran get a vision of past Ned letting slip the secret about Jon. Perhaps just leave off the feast descriptions and we can get it sooner.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Was this not discussed? I went back a few pages and didn't see it posted.
Yup. I still don't believe Jeyne is pregnant, but she doesn't have to be in order to stir trouble. She's still the Queen Of The North. Blackfish almost certainly has something planned, given his behavior in AFFC (flying the Stark banner, attacking Jon Snow so vehemently, etc). Considering the BWB has already infiltrated Riverrun, and Jaime is gone, I think it's very likely that the Blackfish could wreck some shit. Maybe retake Jeyne, free Edmure, then attack the Frey's prisoner exchange (ie free the fuckin' Greatjon).
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Was this not discussed? I went back a few pages and didn't see it posted.
Interesting. I think this is the first confirmation that Jeyne still has a role to play. It will be fun to see what that is. We'll also get some confirmation one or the other on Pyat Pree, which should be good. That may just be us finding out that Euron killed him, though.
Basileus777
Member
I don't think this means much of anything. We'll hear more about Westerling? Of course we will. It doesn't mean she has a large role to play.
This kind of result seems pretty likely. There were a few references in Dance to Jaime's decision to dissolve the host in the Riverlands. With that host gone and Tarly in King's Landing, situation is ripe for Blackfish to go on a guerrilla campaign.
That soon? You've got special contacts or something?
PhoenixDark
Banned
Only tricky thing about Jeyne and Edmure is that 400 men are guarding them, and Jaime ordered them to kill both if the host is attacked. I hope Edmure doesn't die...or at least, I hope he lives long enough to redeem himself in some form or fashion. He seemed quite pleased with himself after the Blackfish escaped.
Jack Scofield
Member
"Did you hear the news about Jayne Westerling, Cersei? She died. Just thought I'd let you know. She wasn't pregnant with Robb Stark's child, so lets never talk about her again. She's as useless as nipples on a breastplate."
There are plenty of guides for reading AFFC/ADWD 'in order'. It requires a lot of switching back and forth between books obviously but that's how I did my re-read of the series and other than a few major overlaps (i.e. there's a chapter from Sam's perspective and then another from Jon's that cover the exact same thing and only worked by being in different books) it read a lot better in my opinion.
Splitting them geographically was an interesting idea, but ultimately didn't work for me and the books would have been better to remain chronological. It isn't like either book had a great 'ending' - both built a lot of interesting stuff and then promptly forgot to include a climax.
Yeah, I had seen some of those guides previous to rereading and just couldn't bring myself to make the effort, I knew what I was getting into, but I'm in complete agreement with your assessment. The thing about these books for me now is that enough stuff happens throughout that I don't miss a big cliffhanger at the end. The end of the series will be the last book for me, I'm never going to read these as standalone. The good thing is I really doubt that kind of thing will occur again, so I've just marked it in my head as an interesting approach that didn't work as well as I would have liked and look forward to the next.
Ha, this would be great, but we know what it means if a character dies "off-screen". It is interesting his comments about those various characters though. I fully expect Jacelyn Bywater and Balen Greyjoy to show back up randomly (okay, they will probably stay dead)
CoffeeJanitor
Member
useless as Nipples on a breastplate
small wonder that
if i look back i am lost
gods be good
small wonder that
if i look back i am lost
gods be good
CoffeeJanitor
Member
I had both Neds death and the Red Wedding spoiled for me way before getting to them
I had neds death spoiled when my friend saw that I was reading GoT. His question was literally 'Have you gotten to where Ned is killed?' i was maybe 100 pages in?
I had the red wedding spoiled for me by a damned live blog of the iOS7 reveal. This moronic writer decided to say that some feature was as surprising as when Robb got killed off in Got. At this point I was starting ASoS.
Fuck that shit. My most memorable death scene is Tywin...
I had neds death spoiled when my friend saw that I was reading GoT. His question was literally 'Have you gotten to where Ned is killed?' i was maybe 100 pages in?
I had the red wedding spoiled for me by a damned live blog of the iOS7 reveal. This moronic writer decided to say that some feature was as surprising as when Robb got killed off in Got. At this point I was starting ASoS.
Fuck that shit. My most memorable death scene is Tywin...
CornBurrito
Member
I've recently (a month or so ago) decided to get the books. I only saw like an episode or two of the TV series version (one or two episodes covering events from book 3), but decided to read the books before watching it.
Anyway I'm on Book 3. Just got to the Red Wedding. So fucking senseless.
I should finish Book 3 in a day or two.
With school starting it may take a little longer to finish books 4 and 5.
Anyway I'm on Book 3. Just got to the Red Wedding. So fucking senseless.
I should finish Book 3 in a day or two.
With school starting it may take a little longer to finish books 4 and 5.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
That sucks. Well, at least you had Joffrey, Tywin and Lysa's deaths being memorable and surprising right?
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
The skull is the dwarf head that the people turned in for the Tyrion reward. They both have the same descriptions.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
...Edmure is married. xD
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
lol, Aegon was a dragon though. Edmure's no dragon, he's just a floppy fish. xD
Yeah how much of a role can she really have? He's not going to have the books stray that far off the tv series so she won't have any significant role in the overall outcome.
Its the tv series that's straying, not Martin. Martin won't let changes in the series affect his own plans and as it stands Talisa was a rather whimsical wild card even as far as the series was concerned.
While I don't know what Jeyne's end game is, I too doubt it would affect the overall outcome particularly. I imagine she could have her own moral victory that doesn't involve her ending up at the top. In fact, I think the series might end on such as note that it doesn't matter who is on top of the political game.
We have definitively been set up for the Scouring of Westeros, so I could easily imagine that the political situation being completely different when all is over.
Edmure is still married to the Frey girl, breaking that particular oath wouldn't be too difficult. You don't need to be a dragon for this, just have some hormones.
Alternatively, when Roslin's child is born, just toss her into a river and declare her son the scion of Robb and Jeyne. Eddie can then give to himself the role of a lord regent and protector.
Alternatively, when Roslin's child is born, just toss her into a river and declare her son the scion of Robb and Jeyne. Eddie can then give to himself the role of a lord regent and protector.
Point is Martin already went on record saying he told the producers of the TV show how the series will end. They wouldn't have killed her off if she had any role.
He have told the ending in broad strokes, which likely doesn't include the fate of every minor to secondary character. Heck, the TV series have already killed off characters that make reappearance later.
So to say, 'They wouldn't have killed her off if she had any role.' doesn't make any sense, particularly when Martin himself said she have one in the books to come, whatever it may be.
Granted, I don't think it is a huge role either, for reasons I have already mentioned, but the deviation were always going to pile up and make the series a different telling of the tale.
We will definitely notice this more and more as the series progresses further and they decide to take even more liberties. After all, if they pass the books then all that matters is the 'broad strokes'.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Some comments from LoneStarCon
Conflicted reports on whether it was the Tyrion chapter he has read before, or a new one. It's amazing that these events never seem to have a nerd in attendance who can quickly tweet or post on reddit about this stuff lol.
Conflicted reports on whether it was the Tyrion chapter he has read before, or a new one. It's amazing that these events never seem to have a nerd in attendance who can quickly tweet or post on reddit about this stuff lol.
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