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[PhoenixDark]

Yup. Two of the biggest reveals in ADWD were "spoiled" for me due to fan theories (3EC = Bloodraven and Aegon). So clearly he isn't going to be changing any of his plot twists just because the fans are predicating them with surprising accuracy.

Interestingly, the original version of the ADWD Tyrion chapter he released had more blatant Aegon tells, which he did take out of the final version. Today the chapter has a scene where Illyrio is saddened that he cannot personally give some gifts to Young Griff, including some clothes. In the original draft, Illyrio mentions he has clothes and a sword he needs to give to Young Giff as gifts. It's commonly believed Illyrio was going to give Young Griff the Blackfyre sword. Martin may try to hide things but there are rabid fans (like Elio and Linda...) who literally obsess over everything for years, decades even. So for instance when Jon's parents are revealed I don't think anyone will be truly shocked; I've met fans of the show who have somehow heard that Jon isn't Ned's son too.

Westeros.org documents all the answers Martin has given to fans over the years. He has never outright said baby Aegon was dead; the furthest back reference I've found was in 2000

August 06, 2000
Elia’s Children

Fan: I was wondering if you could answer (or take the "fifth") one teeny little question I've been dying to ask for the past year: Are Aegon and Rhaenys, Elia's children, well and truly dead?

Martin: All I have to say is that there is absolutely no doubt that little Princess Rhaenys was dragged from beneath her father's bed and slain.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1106/

Personally I think the real Aegon is dead, but obviously Martin couldn't outright saw that at the time without ruining a future arc. It's perhaps the most controversial twist in the series in recent memory, with many claiming Martin pulled it out his ass...but I think Westeros.org has documented that this was long in the making.

 

[Judderman]

Guys, we've reached the edge. We can go no further, let's turn back.

 

[CassSept]

what

 

[Blue Ninja]

Guys, we've reached the edge. We can go no further, let's turn back.

 

[ZeroRay]

So uh...secret Targaryens....how about them?

 

[Laurentius]

Guys, we've reached the edge. We can go no further, let's turn back.

Some ASOIAF fans need some sense knocked into them, I think:

 

[El Daniel]

I'v finally read all the books. (well, in less than 2 months) so the internet is a safe place for me again.

Quick question:

How far does winter reach. All the way to Dorne and beyond? In Sothoryos?

 

[Lirlond]

I think the summer isles are the only place who escape winter. Everywhere else experiences it in some form.

 

[Advance_Alarm]

Okay this is kind of a technical question but I have been wanting an answer for a while:

Say someone is a landed knight, their title would be "The Knight of X (Griffin's Roost, Ninestars, for example). Their land is hereditary, but knighthood is not hereditary. If a person is unable or unwilling to train or take a knight's vows (I know some nobility do not become men of the sword, Loras Tyrell due to disability, Edwyn Frey to disinclination, etc) how is the succession handled and what title would the person have. Does not being a knight prevent a successor from inheriting a landed knight's estate? I know this is mostly a "question for the maesters" or maybe the answer is obvious but I need some help.

 

[Reyne]

Okay this is kind of a technical question but I have been wanting an answer for a while:

Say someone is a landed knight, their title would be "The Knight of X (Griffin's Roost, Ninestars, for example). Their land is hereditary, but knighthood is not hereditary. If a person is unable or unwilling to train or take a knight's vows (I know some nobility do not become men of the sword, Loras Tyrell due to disability, Edwyn Frey to disinclination, etc) how is the succession handled and what title would the person have. Does not being a knight prevent a successor from inheriting a landed knight's estate? I know this is mostly a "question for the maesters" or maybe the answer is obvious but I need some help.

Being knighted is as simple as having someone who is a knight make you say an oath and getting some oil smeared on your head ( and sometimes not even that ), regardless of training.
Of course, if there is no suitable heir or some dispute I'd imagine the matter falling on the liege lord of say, Griffin's Roost ( which would be whoever rules Storms End ), to decide the matter. There are no strict rules here either. One landed knight can easily be replaced by another and the lords will decide as they see fit. Even though the castle and land is hereditary, it ultimately belongs the liege lords.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Okay this is kind of a technical question but I have been wanting an answer for a while:

Say someone is a landed knight, their title would be "The Knight of X (Griffin's Roost, Ninestars, for example). Their land is hereditary, but knighthood is not hereditary. If a person is unable or unwilling to train or take a knight's vows (I know some nobility do not become men of the sword, Loras Tyrell due to disability, Edwyn Frey to disinclination, etc) how is the succession handled and what title would the person have. Does not being a knight prevent a successor from inheriting a landed knight's estate? I know this is mostly a "question for the maesters" or maybe the answer is obvious but I need some help.

I don't think it makes any difference; the landing and the knighting are completely different distinction. I think being knighted just qualifies you to receive hereditary lands in the first place.

 

[apana]

Titancon Panel on the Starks. Here is part 1, the other parts are there as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKT-9cXXmpo

Panelists: Ser Rodrik Cassell, Hodor, Rickon (Art Parkinson), Random Kid Actor, Jojen, and Bran (Isaac Hempstead Wright).

This is the first panel involving Isaac Hempstead Wright, he doesn't look like a kid at all anymore. Rickon (Art) steals the show and takes over the whole panel. He says he is hyped up on water and feels that the Stark kids should be given Playstation and Xbox consoles. That kid is very talented, he is also going to be in some Dracula movie. Myrcella was also there but on a different panel. That one should also be up on youtube. Don't know if this has all been posted yet but I thought I might as well inform some more people. These kids grow up fast:

Bran and Myrcella hanging out:

Bran and Rickon:

 

[Gvaz]

Okay this is kind of a technical question but I have been wanting an answer for a while:

Say someone is a landed knight, their title would be "The Knight of X (Griffin's Roost, Ninestars, for example). Their land is hereditary, but knighthood is not hereditary. If a person is unable or unwilling to train or take a knight's vows (I know some nobility do not become men of the sword, Loras Tyrell due to disability, Edwyn Frey to disinclination, etc) how is the succession handled and what title would the person have. Does not being a knight prevent a successor from inheriting a landed knight's estate? I know this is mostly a "question for the maesters" or maybe the answer is obvious but I need some help.

You should read dunk and egg. It talks about that.

 

[OnPoint]

Just finished ADWD last night and have avoided this thread until now. I'll peruse it, and I'm sure there's a lot of interesting discussion going on. But I have a couple questions real quick.

1. Do we know how many more books the series will last?

2. When is the next one coming out?

 

[Fuzzy]

Just finished ADWD last night and have avoided this thread until now. I'll peruse it, and I'm sure there's a lot of interesting discussion going on. But I have a couple questions real quick.

1. Do we know how many more books the series will last?

2. When is the next one coming out?

1. Two more, for a total of 7.

2. :lol

 

[OnPoint]

1. Two more, for a total of 7.

2. :lol

So what you're telling me, then is that the TV show is going to catch up with the books? Haha

 

[apana]

Just finished ADWD last night and have avoided this thread until now. I'll peruse it, and I'm sure there's a lot of interesting discussion going on. But I have a couple questions real quick.

1. Do we know how many more books the series will last?

2. When is the next one coming out?

George has said 7 books total but he hasn't promised, it is his goal, but if he needs to extend it to 8 books he will. My personal guess is that it will end up going to 8.

 

[Dysun]

So what you're telling me, then is that the TV show is going to catch up with the books? Haha

That's guaranteed, there is no feasible way George finishes both books before the show catches up to him. At best he finishes The Winds of Winter before the show completely overtakes him, even that is unlikely

 

[PhoenixDark]

Just finished ADWD last night and have avoided this thread until now. I'll peruse it, and I'm sure there's a lot of interesting discussion going on. But I have a couple questions real quick.

1. Do we know how many more books the series will last?

2. When is the next one coming out?

1. Two more novels: The Winds of Winter, and A Dream of Spring

2. Martin has said he thinks 2014 is possible, but many think 2015 is more likely. Personally I think 2014 is very possible. Martin has nothing planned on his schedule from late December to late May. I think that's his stretch period, where he'll be aiming on finishing or getting close.

here's some info on the next book including released TWOW chapters
http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1m6r0b/spoilers_all_releasedconfirmedspeculated_chapters/

 

[Forkball]

Just finished Feast for Crows. It was certainly slower than Storm, but not nearly as plodding as some people make it out to be. It pretty much ends on a cliffhanger all around though, I can see how people would be pissed about that, especially since most had to wait five years to read the next book (unlike me who will start in about 5 minutes).

BEST STUFF:

Kingsmoot
Jamie backhanding everyone with his golden hand
Arya's magical blind adventures in Braavos
Blackfish schooling Jamie
Aurane Waters


WORST STUFF:

Brienne's fruitless quest with random goobers
Cersei arming the Faith has to be one of the dumbest things a character has done in fiction
Lacking so many characters
Pretty much every arc ends on a cliffhanger
So tired of reading about Freys and Kettleblacks

On a scale of Gilly's breast milk to fat pink mast, I give it a Myrish swamp.

 

[Atruvius]

Just finished Feast for Crows. It was certainly slower than Storm, but not nearly as plodding as some people make it out to be. It pretty much ends on a cliffhanger all around though, I can see how people would be pissed about that, especially since most had to wait five years to read the next book (unlike me who will start in about 5 minutes).

BEST STUFF:

Kingsmoot
Jamie backhanding everyone with his golden hand
Arya's magical blind adventures in Braavos
Blackfish schooling Jamie
Aurane Waters


WORST STUFF:

Brienne's fruitless quest with random goobers
Cersei arming the Faith has to be one of the dumbest things a character has done in fiction
Lacking so many characters
Pretty much every arc ends on a cliffhanger
So tired of reading about Freys and Kettleblacks

On a scale of Gilly's breast milk to fat pink mast, I give it a Myrish swamp.

Those Jamie chapters are my favourite chapters in the series. while Cersei chapters are my least favourite. And on my first read through(two years ago) I thought that Feast was worst of the books but I started liking it a lot more on subsequent read throughs.

When you're doing your first re-read I recommend reading Feast and Dance at the same time using the read order from that site I've now forgotten. It also alleviates some of the problems both book have like Feast missing some characters and Dance having lots of Dany chapters near eachother.

 

[yyzjohn]

1. Two more novels: The Winds of Winter, and A Dream of Spring

2. Martin has said he thinks 2014 is possible, but many think 2015 is more likely. Personally I think 2014 is very possible. Martin has nothing planned on his schedule from late December to late May. I think that's his stretch period, where he'll be aiming on finishing or getting close.

Nothing on his schedule? Do you forget the NFL season that he watches religiously? Superbowl is in Feb, don't plan on him doing anything until that's over and done with.

 

[hemtae]

Nothing on his schedule? Do you forget the NFL season that he watches religiously? Superbowl is in Feb, don't plan on him doing anything until that's over and done with.

That's like three days a week at max including the grieving process from a Giants/Jets loss.

 

[Trojita]

Titancon Panel on the Starks. Here is part 1, the other parts are there as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKT-9cXXmpo

Panelists: Ser Rodrik Cassell, Hodor, Rickon (Art Parkinson), Random Kid Actor, Jojen, and Bran (Isaac Hempstead Wright).

This is the first panel involving Isaac Hempstead Wright, he doesn't look like a kid at all anymore. Rickon (Art) steals the show and takes over the whole panel. He says he is hyped up on water and feels that the Stark kids should be given Playstation and Xbox consoles. That kid is very talented, he is also going to be in some Dracula movie. Myrcella was also there but on a different panel. That one should also be up on youtube. Don't know if this has all been posted yet but I thought I might as well inform some more people. These kids grow up fast:

Bran and Myrcella hanging out:

Bran and Rickon:

lol I still remember Rickon's actor's response on twitter to his characters presence in Season 3 of GoT

 

[Laurentius]

Just finished Feast for Crows. It was certainly slower than Storm, but not nearly as plodding as some people make it out to be. It pretty much ends on a cliffhanger all around though, I can see how people would be pissed about that, especially since most had to wait five years to read the next book (unlike me who will start in about 5 minutes).

BEST STUFF:

Kingsmoot
Jamie backhanding everyone with his golden hand
Arya's magical blind adventures in Braavos
Blackfish schooling Jamie
Aurane Waters


WORST STUFF:

Brienne's fruitless quest with random goobers
Cersei arming the Faith has to be one of the dumbest things a character has done in fiction
Lacking so many characters
Pretty much every arc ends on a cliffhanger
So tired of reading about Freys and Kettleblacks

On a scale of Gilly's breast milk to fat pink mast, I give it a Myrish swamp.

I thoroughly enjoyed Feast myself. Although I think it helped that I knew what I was getting into before starting it (slower paced, missing half the characters), and that I didn't have to wait years for ADWD.

Personally, I really enjoyed Brienne's quest. She also met one of my favorite minor characters, Septon Meribald.

Also, I loved the part where Cersei arms the faith. It was indeed one of the stupidest things she's ever done. It really showed that despite how clever she thinks she is, she's really a bumbling idiot.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

She's basically an evil version of Sansa. Both of them suffered from the fact that neither of their dads taught them squat about politics.

 

[TCRS]

On a scale of Gilly's breast milk to fat pink mast, I give it a Myrish swamp.

lol. I enjoyed Feast too, I kinda expected a slow paced book, there was just too much reordering to do after Storm.

 

[fallengorn]

WORST STUFF:
Cersei arming the Faith has to be one of the dumbest things a character has done in fiction

I wouldn't list it as one of the worst stuff. It's definitely a stupid move on her part, but it definitely made for a more interesting (FUBAR) situation on the continent.

 

[luca1980]

finished reading all books. started last year. read all from asos to adwd this great summer.
man I cannot wait. Jon's fate, the ending and stannis and the boltons.....the wait will be unbearable.

 

[Pollux]

I wouldn't list it as one of the worst stuff. It's definitely a stupid move on her part, but it definitely made for a more interesting (FUBAR) situation on the continent.

I would argue that after chopping off Ned's head, arming a group of religious zealots with the backing of the crown is easily the stupidest thing she's done. The main reason is that b/c this group is backed by the crown their legitimate. They're not some rebels she's funding, there was a realm-wide proclamation. The possible consequences that can come from this are immense and few of them are good - look to our own history, nothing good generally comes from arming religious zealots.

 

[Laurentius]

I would argue that after chopping off Ned's head, arming a group of religious zealots with the backing of the crown is easily the stupidest thing she's done. The main reason is that b/c this group is backed by the crown their legitimate. They're not some rebels she's funding, there was a realm-wide proclamation. The possible consequences that can come from this are immense and few of them are good - look to our own history, nothing good generally comes from arming religious zealots.

Wasn't Ned's beheading mainly Joffrey's fault though? (Admittedly, she should have predicted that Joffrey would demand his head.) She wanted to send him to the Night's Watch, right?

 

[PhoenixDark]

I wouldn't list it as one of the worst stuff. It's definitely a stupid move on her part, but it definitely made for a more interesting (FUBAR) situation on the continent.

I'd list it, at least for the series. She sowed the seeds for her first downfall and probably paved the way for "Aegon." It seems almost certain that the Faith will declare for him.

 

[Clipjoint]

This essay on the poisoning of the locusts in ADWD is really interesting:

http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com...reenese-knot-part-i-who-poisoned-the-locusts/

Makes me want to re-read that book with a more critical eye.

 

[Pollux]

Wasn't Ned's beheading mainly Joffrey's fault though? (Admittedly, she should have predicted that Joffrey would demand his head.) She wanted to send him to the Night's Watch, right?

Basically, I view that under the umbrella of being completely blind to the raving sociopath that her son was. She should have known he would have demanded his head, if only because Joffrey would have done anything to appear in control - especially when there was a crowd watching. She should have had him more firmly in hand. After all she was the Queen Regent and technically has absolute power until Joffrey was to come of age.

 

[fallengorn]

I would argue that after chopping off Ned's head, arming a group of religious zealots with the backing of the crown is easily the stupidest thing she's done. The main reason is that b/c this group is backed by the crown their legitimate. They're not some rebels she's funding, there was a realm-wide proclamation. The possible consequences that can come from this are immense and few of them are good - look to our own history, nothing good generally comes from arming religious zealots.

I'd list it, at least for the series. She sowed the seeds for her first downfall and probably paved the way for "Aegon." It seems almost certain that the Faith will declare for him.

Oh, I know the ramifications in the story are going to be disastrous. I was just saying, as a reader, I wouldn't list that as a bad thing against AFFC. The fallout is going to interesting to read, if you catch my meaning.

 

[Iksenpets]

Oh, I know the ramifications in the story are going to be disastrous. I was just saying, as a reader, I wouldn't list that as a bad thing against AFFC. The fallout is going to interesting to read, if you catch my meaning.

If people making disastrously bad choices is a black mark on a book then this whole series is awful. The arming of the Faith is probably the dumbest move anyone's made in the whole series, but it's also a pretty critical character moment for Cersei, seeing how totally she's willing to leverage the long term to score short term victories. She's so fixated on every little conflict as being a "win or die" type situation that she never realizes that some battles aren't worth fighting. It would've been way better to just let the Faith be, but once she's walked in there and demanded something from the Faith, she can't walk away without feeling like she lost, so she does stupid things to get what she wants, no thought for the consequences.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Wasn't Ned's beheading mainly Joffrey's fault though? (Admittedly, she should have predicted that Joffrey would demand his head.) She wanted to send him to the Night's Watch, right?

Yeah, she wanted him in the Night's Watch. Dead Ned was all Joffrey, with some urging from Littlefinger.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Ah I misread that I guess. I don't think it's a black mark against AFFC, it made for quite an entertaining series of events. Personally I thought Cersei had some of the best POVs in the series...

One of the things I love about the series is that you really see how policy and governing works, in the world. For instance the current near-famine going on in Westeros, due to Tywin burning the crops. Cersei arming the Faith comes to mind as well.

I'm still re-reading ADWD and came to the point where Tyrion is outside Mereen/joins the Second Sons. At one point he notes how filthy the river water is, but that the siege lines are dotted with fresh water wells. He notes that Dany should have poisoned the wells in preparation for the siege. Stuff like that really excites me lol.

It also makes me hope that we'll get to see Varys actively supporting Aegon in the next book, just so we can see a strategic battle between him and Tyrion.

 

[luca1980]

what's the general consensus on Jon ending in adwd? do people think he is dead? or did malisandre pull a mance Ryder like move with him or his spirit lived on his wolf?

 

[Basileus777]

what's the general consensus on Jon ending in adwd? do people think he is dead? or did malisandre pull a mance Ryder like move with him or his spirit lived on his wolf?

No one thinks he is permanently dead. The debate over is how he survives/is resurrected.

 

[timetokill]

what's the general consensus on Jon ending in adwd? do people think he is dead? or did malisandre pull a mance Ryder like move with him or his spirit lived on his wolf?

I don't know anybody that thinks he's dead, or at the very least, will STAY dead if he is.

 

[luca1980]

thanks guys.

and what about stannis? IMHO he cannot be dead. I think it's lie of Ramsay to lure Jon having taken mance as prisoner.
I can't believe stannis went that far to be killed this easily.

 

[Tacitus_]

thanks guys.

and what about stannis? IMHO he cannot be dead. I think it's lie of Ramsay to lure Jon having taken mance as prisoner.
I can't believe stannis went that far to be killed this easily.

I subscribe to the theory of it being sent by Mance, given how much Ramsay hates the word bastard.

 

[luca1980]

I subscribe to the theory of it being sent by Mance, given how much Ramsay hates the word bastard.

that's a nice point I didn't find. it really could be like that, but for which reasons mance would try to lure out Jon snow? and how could he know Ramsay and his scary attitudes?

 

[Joni]

that's a nice point I didn't find. it really could be like that, but for which reasons mance would try to lure out Jon snow? and how could he know Ramsay and his scary attitudes?

He has been spying on Ramsay though while at Winterfell. The reason why he would want to do it, is a mystery; but he could be suspect that without Jon there, the rangers would attack the wildlings which would lead to the Wildlings taking over the wall.

 

[Blastoise]

So Robert Strong is Gregor Clegane's reanimated corpse?

 

[Mr.Marston]

Just finished Feast for Crows. It was certainly slower than Storm, but not nearly as plodding as some people make it out to be. It pretty much ends on a cliffhanger all around though, I can see how people would be pissed about that, especially since most had to wait five years to read the next book (unlike me who will start in about 5 minutes).

BEST STUFF:

Kingsmoot
Jamie backhanding everyone with his golden hand
Arya's magical blind adventures in Braavos
Blackfish schooling Jamie
Aurane Waters


WORST STUFF:

Brienne's fruitless quest with random goobers
Cersei arming the Faith has to be one of the dumbest things a character has done in fiction
Lacking so many characters
Pretty much every arc ends on a cliffhanger
So tired of reading about Freys and Kettleblacks

On a scale of Gilly's breast milk to fat pink mast, I give it a Myrish swamp.

Feast is underrated. I enjoyed it more than ADWD.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

So Robert Strong is Gregor Clegane's reanimated corpse?

Almost certainly.

 

[timetokill]

So Robert Strong is Gregor Clegane's reanimated corpse?

Pretty much, yeah. It would be a huge curveball if it wasn't.

Now the question is how to get Sandor down there to fight him...

 

[PhoenixDark]

thanks guys.

and what about stannis? IMHO he cannot be dead. I think it's lie of Ramsay to lure Jon having taken mance as prisoner.
I can't believe stannis went that far to be killed this easily.

I know many think Mance sent the letter, but I think Ramsay did. IMO he has been manipulated into sending it by Stannis and Manderly. We know that Ramsay sent the Freys and Manderys to fight Stannis, alongside the Karstarks. I'm betting that Stannis handily wins the battle in part thanks to Lord Manderly attacking the Frey force. Afterwards Manderly gives Stannis a plan to sieze Winterfell.

Manderly will return to Winterfell with Stannis' sword, claiming to have defeated him; he'll also have some of Stannis' army with him, dressed as Freys. Ramsay then sends that ridiculous letter due to false info he's given by Manderly. The plan will ultimately be to open the gates for the rest of Stannis' army and take the castle. This seems like the only way Stannis can attack Winterfell successfully.

I also think there's a Glover army somewhere outside Winterfell.