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[Laurentius]

Is Dany generally despised among book fans?

I don't think so. I think people have just gotten frustrated with her decisions and the fact that most of her chapters in ADWD don't seem to go anywhere. (Although I highly recommenced reading the Meereenese Blot articles, as they shed a lot of light on some interesting aspects of the whole Meereen arc in ADWD.) I don't think the majority of book readers hate her by any stretch of the imagination -- just frustrated with her.

 

[Cornballer]

I read a bit at Barnes and Noble, will read more later today after work. It's pretty damn good. Reads like a historical text, but isn't as dry as the Similarion.

Lots of people die. Horrible deaths on a scale that hasn't been seen in the ASOIAF books. So yea, based on what little I've read...if Dany keeps all three dragons, there's literally no way she can lose.

Sounds good to me. Amazon has it for ~$12 right now on eBook, so I might grab it this weekend.

 

[pizza dog]

I don't think so. I think people have just gotten frustrated with her decisions and the fact that most of her chapters in ADWD don't seem to go anywhere. (Although I highly recommenced reading the Meereenese Blot articles, as they shed a lot of light on some interesting aspects of the whole Meereen arc in ADWD.) I don't think the majority of book readers hate her by any stretch of the imagination -- just frustrated with her.

Yeah his is my read on her. I just don't give a fuck about Meereen. It's time to spin up all the magiks, turn north, and start working on the whole existential-threat thing going on.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

I don't think so. I think people have just gotten frustrated with her decisions and the fact that most of her chapters in ADWD don't seem to go anywhere. (Although I highly recommenced reading the Meereenese Blot articles, as they shed a lot of light on some interesting aspects of the whole Meereen arc in ADWD.) I don't think the majority of book readers hate her by any stretch of the imagination -- just frustrated with her.

I really, really hated The Adventures of Daenarys Targaryan in Essos when I first read through it and well, I still don't like it that much but I kind of see where Martin (probably) was going with it. Meereen is Dany's lesson in being a conqueror. If she wants Westeros, it's not going to be all mysha this and that. Dragons just ain't 'bout that life and without dragons she might as well hang it up.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I appreciated Dany's chapters more on the re-read, and I do like articles that have been written about that plot. Ultimately I think the big issue that turned many people off was that Tyrion never reached her. The dominant assumption about ADWD was that Tyrion would reach Dany, and not getting that moment soured people on both of their POVs imo. Personally I thought Tyrion's chapters were very strong.

Besides the issue of ridiculous names and less-than-interesting support characters, the big problem about Dany's chapter IMO was that...she's does a bunch of dumb stuff, and it's stretched out over too many chapters. While I like the chapters more than I did on first read, I still think her number of chapters could have been cut by 3-5. She spends a lot of time making puzzling decisions that make her rule less interesting than it could have been.


For instance, why didn't she leave a force to rule or at least protect Astapor? The previous books are full of characters who realize they cannot leave un-manned or enemy castles/towers/etc to their flank or backs; Stannis had to take Storm's End to open up the possibility of taking King's Landing, Robb had to re-take the North, etc. Yet Dany never seems to consider leaving someone behind to rule in her name, or sending support when Yunkai attacks. It just doesn't make any sense. If such an issue came up in Westeros, we'd at least get a few pages of debate amongst the king's advisers. With Dany it's just "no thanks I won't help you, good bye. Time for Daario and Hizdar."

I can't help but think things would have been more interesting if someone was sent to Astapor, and we got reports or even a POV view there. Imagine what Tyrion's reaction would be to Dany's decision on this; he criticizes her siege tactics in ADWD when he realizes she didn't poison the wells outside of Mereen.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Her decisions regarding Astapor were a combination of being naive as hell pre-Butcher King ("Lol I left you a healer, priest and scholar y u no democracy?") and simply lacking the manpower to both hold down Meereen and save Astapor once the situation in the latter went south.

 

[timetokill]

I appreciated Dany's chapters more on the re-read, and I do like articles that have been written about that plot. Ultimately I think the big issue that turned many people off was that Tyrion never reached her.

Well, that part only compounds the real issue, which is that readers want Dany to get her ass to Mars Westeros already and it just doesn't seem to ever be happening. Instead she's sticking around a quagmire making shitty decisions and it's all just very frustrating to read.

It also is frustrating because she faces seemingly so few truly serious personal consequences for her shitty decisions. A lot of characters are having "fall from grace" moments and she seems immune to the big ones. You could argue she is at the end of DWD but I don't think so. All she has to do is ride back on her dragon and everything is OK again.

 

[bone_and_sinew]

Did anyone dig into "The Princess and the Queen" yet?

It arrived at my doorstep yesterday, I'll probably run through it tonight before falling asleep.

 

[El Daniel]

Did anyone dig into "The Princess and the Queen" yet?

I'm almost through and some parts are brutal.

And finally some dragon action!

 

[A Human Becoming]

Having just finished the last book Thursday, I have to say my five favorite scenes were:

• Ned's execution
• Dany taking Astapor
• Red Wedding
• Oberyn Martel vs Gregor Clegane
• Cersei's walk

Nothing from A Feast for Crows was not surprising, but I couldn't think of anything from A Clash of Kings, and I really liked that one (probably second favorite).

I'm also really annoyed at Jon's dumb decision at the end of DwD to fight Ramsey. Aside from sending the ships to pick up wildlings in the north he had done an excellent job as Lord Commander. Also, really hoping by the last book we know who Jon's mother is: crossing my fingers for Lyanna/Rhagaer.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

If I had to rank my top scenes, it would be (in no order)

- Cersei's walk
- Dany taking Astapor
- Sansa and the snow castle / Lysa dying
- The Kingsmoot
- The Red Wedding

 

[Pkaz01]

Whether Arya dies or not is somewhat inconsequential to me. I just want her to have purpose.

I don't worry about that too much. She was one of the first characters created and is martin's second favorite to write. and she is the only POV to have had a chapter in every book. Whether she goes out or not she has to be an important piece in the final puzzle.

 

[Laurentius]

If I had to rank my top scenes, it would be (in no order)

- Cersei's walk
- Dany taking Astapor
- Sansa and the snow castle / Lysa dying
- The Kingsmoot
- The Red Wedding

Oooh, the Kingsmoot, I had nearly forgotten that scene. That was indeed great. It doesn't seem like people talk about it much. I also thought Aeron was quite the interesting character. Hope we see more of him.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Oooh, the Kingsmoot, I had nearly forgotten that scene. That was indeed great. It doesn't seem like people talk about it much. I also thought Aeron was quite the interesting character. Hope we see more of him.

Yeah, I actually really like Victarion. I love Asha too; she's probably my second favorite POV character. I hope we see her rise to power somehow, even if it isn't the Seastone Chair.

I thought it was excellent how GRRM made Victarion, a follower of the Drowned God, a tool of R'hllor with his burned arm. I wonder how that'll play out later.

 

[Laurentius]

Yeah, I actually really like Victarion. I love Asha too; she's probably my second favorite POV character. I hope we see her rise to power somehow, even if it isn't the Seastone Chair.

I thought it was excellent how GRRM made Victarion, a follower of the Drowned God, a tool of R'hllor with his burned arm. I wonder how that'll play out later.

Ah, good old Victarion. Our beloved Dothraki Sea sailing viking badass. His chapters are such a nice change of pace in AFFC and ADWD.

You know, now that you mention it, I pretty much love everything about the Greyjoy arcs so far. A really fascinating set of characters.

 

[You Know Nothing]

There are too many scenes and moments that I love in this series.

-Ned's beheading
-Purple Wedding
-Red Wedding
-Sansa and Tyrion's Wedding
-Sansa's snow castle and Lysa's death
-Sansa being forced to look at her father's head and nearly pushing Joffrey off the ledge
-Cersei's walk
-Tyrion killing Tywin and Shae
-Kingsmoot
-Dany killing zombie Drogo
-Dany killing Mirri and emerging from the ashes with her dragons
-Dany taking Astapor
-Weasel soup
-Arya slitting the guard's throat to get out of Harrenhal
-Arya's inn scene. HOW MANY HOW MANY HOW MANY HOW MANY HOW MANY
-Any Reek scene. Every Reek chapter has some of the best writing in the series so far.
-Ygritte's death scene. I crie evry tiem.
-Lady Stoneheart's reveal
-Dondarrion's fight with the Hound
-Gregor and Oberyn's fight
-Brienne's fight with the Bloody Mummers
-Margaery telling Cersei to fuck off

An honorable mention to gross moments in the series.

-Jaime screwing Cersei in the sept while she's on her period
-Sam fantasizing about Gilly's breast milk
-Myrish swamp and fat pink mast

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Ah, good old Victarion. Our beloved Dothraki Sea sailing viking badass. His chapters are such a nice change of pace in AFFC and ADWD.

You know, now that you mention it, I pretty much love everything about the Greyjoy arcs so far. A really fascinating set of characters.

The only one who really bored me honestly is Aeron. Theon's can sometimes get a little bit repetitive too, because all he talks about is how bad Ramsay is.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

-Arya's inn scene. HOW MANY HOW MANY HOW MANY HOW MANY HOW MANY

-Ygritte's death scene. I crie evry tiem.

An honorable mention to gross moments in the series.

-Jaime screwing Cersei in the sept while she's on her period

Omg how could I forget these. Let me revise my list

- Dany at Astapor
- Arya inn scene
- The Kingsmoot
- Arya right before she gives up Needle*
- Ygritte's death / cave scene

*"It's just a stupid sword," she said, aloud this time...
... but it wasn't.
Needle was Robb and Bran and Rickon, her mother and her father, even Sansa. Needle was Winterfell's grey walls, and the laughter of its people. Needle was the summer snows, Old Nan's stories, the heart tree with its red leaves and scary face, the warm earthy smell of the glass gardens, the sound of the north wind rattling the shutters of her room. Needle was Jon Snow's smile."

 

[Laurentius]

The only one who really bored me honestly is Aeron. Theon's can sometimes get a little bit repetitive too, because all he talks about is how bad Ramsay is.

I like Aeron because his character reminds me a lot of Biblical/Old Testament prophets. Even if he's just spouting gibberish, his absolute confidence in his god and his position as a prophet reminds me a lot of stuff I was taught in my religious upbringing (although I'm no longer religious). For me, GRRM really nailed that type of personality.

With Theon, I liked how GRRM made us really hate the guy in the first couple of books. And then he puts him through so much hell that I can't help but start to feel pity for him, but then I remember him murdering those two boys and feel that it's warranted, but then I think that he's surely paid enough penance by now, but then...

For me, it doesn't really matter if Theon was "redeemed" from his actions. I just like how GRRM can show the absolute worst and most despicable aspects of a character, but still make us love or pity or at least understand them in some way. (See also: the Hound.)

 

[Pkaz01]

Some of my favorite scenes that haven't been mentioned


ACOK

- Jaqen wakes arya up and offers her the three kills.

- Introduction to Brienne and her oath to Cat

- Stannis and Renly's conversation with Cat as the third wheel

- Jaime and Cat's conversation right before she let him go (One of the best dialogues in the series)

- Tyrion's entire 1, 2, 3 chapter

ASOS

- Arya and the Ghost of High heart

- Arya and Lady Smallwood

- when harwin finds arya and she breaks down

- Beric and Hound trial and fight and Arya standing up to him before it

- Introduction of Oberyn

- Stannis at the wall and the rigged election that follows

- Jaime going back for Brienne

Theres just so much in those two books alone i'd go on forever if I listed the entire series

 

[DrForester]

My favorite Arya scene is probably her confronting the old man when she finds out who he is. I wonder how long till he figures out how she did it. I would have thought he would know instantly, but he seemed genuinely surprised and seemed to have no clue.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Well, that part only compounds the real issue, which is that readers want Dany to get her ass to Mars Westeros already and it just doesn't seem to ever be happening. Instead she's sticking around a quagmire making shitty decisions and it's all just very frustrating to read.

It also is frustrating because she faces seemingly so few truly serious personal consequences for her shitty decisions. A lot of characters are having "fall from grace" moments and she seems immune to the big ones. You could argue she is at the end of DWD but I don't think so. All she has to do is ride back on her dragon and everything is OK again.

I'm not sure. The city may not fall, but it could very easily be completely taken over by the pale mare. Imagine if Dany has to burn the city to stamp out the disease, or if her two dragons burn everything down after the horn is blown; either way she'll look like a monster once the story reaches Westeros (in some garbled, half true way). There are a lot of potential ways for her to pay for her stupidity in Mereen. What if Barristan is being tricked, and the Shavepate turns against him? Dany could lose nearly her entire army if things go as bad as possible.

I understand that not every character can make good decisions, I'm just annoyed that Dany's bad decisions made her story slow and boring at times. She basically blows everything off, and the book ends the minute the consequences of her inaction come to a head (ie multiple states sending armies to attack Mereen). Hence me wishing she had at least made some decisions so we could see things play out. Like if Quentyn arrived earlier, and she sent him and x amount of men to protect Astapor. He would be trying to win her hand by saving Astapor while Hizdar would be trying to win her hand by calming the violence in Mereen; all while Daario did his thing. That would have made for some interesting events IMO, ending in Quentyn having to escape Astapor after it fell to Yunkai. His failure would make for a better reason for Dany to reject him instead of "meh you're ugly." Yes there was more to it than that, but still...

 

[Jayof9s]

She basically blows everything off, and the book ends the minute the consequences of her inaction come to a head (ie multiple states sending armies to attack Mereen).

That's the entire problem with DWD. It's actually a good book BUT pretty much every arc in there starts nearing a climax and then the damn thing just ends.

People that come to the series after WOW is out will likely have a very different take on DWD due to not being left with literary blue balls.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

I think Dany will face the consequences when she inevitably goes mad.

 

[Laurentius]

So, apparently there was some leaks from the VGX thing tonight and the GOT Telltale game is real. Should be getting more info later today.

I still think it could be really good, even if there are people in this thread that aren't Telltale fans.

 

[You Know Nothing]

Oh man. My wallet is ready.

I think Dany will face the consequences when she inevitably goes mad.

TWoW will just be her ignoring the Dothraki and talking to the dying grass.

 

[Steelyuhas]

So, apparently there was some leaks from the VGX thing tonight and the GOT Telltale game is real. Should be getting more info later today.

I still think it could be really good, even if there are people in this thread that aren't Telltale fans.

I honestly couldn't get through their Walking Dead game, just too tedious to play for me. But I did really like the writing and that real decisions you had to make on the fly had very real consequences.

I think that aspect is a good fit for this franchise, and obviously I have more interest in the GoT world than Walking Dead, so I'm looking forward to it.

 

[A Human Becoming]

So, apparently there was some leaks from the VGX thing tonight and the GOT Telltale game is real. Should be getting more info later today.

I still think it could be really good, even if there are people in this thread that aren't Telltale fans.

So excite. That said, I think a game that followed the books closely would work well.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I haven't played TWD game, how is it in terms of choices? I'd imagine there are some characters that have to live/die for story's sake, but overall does the player have solid control of events?

I'd love to play a knight or petty lord, determining which great house to support.

 

[Laurentius]

So excite. That said, I think a game that followed the books closely would work well.

I really wonder how closely they're going to follow the books. I'm thinking you'll be playing some new character they come up with who interacts from time to time with book characters, but is playing out his own story in the universe. That way they can still include the canon events in ASOIAF, but let you experience your own story and make your own choices. That's kind of what they did with TWD.

I haven't played TWD game, how is it in terms of choices? I'd imagine there are some characters that have to live/die for story's sake, but overall does the player have solid control of events?

I'd love to play a knight or petty lord, determining which great house to support.

It's debatable and somewhat controversial. Your choices generally don't influence the ultimate outcome of events, but I still found them meaningful. Generally speaking the characters react to the choices you make realistically, and they're generally hard to make decisions. The fact that it's always on a timer makes it even more effective in my opinion. You literally have to think on your feet, and it makes for a really interesting system.

Some people were upset that the choices they made didn't have more of an impact on the progression of events, but that didn't bother me. What mattered to me was that your choices did seem to have an impact on the characters in the game.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I really wonder how closely they're going to follow the books. I'm thinking you'll be playing some new character they come up with who interacts from time to time with book characters, but is playing out his own story in the universe. That way they can still include the canon events in ASOIAF, but let you experience your own story and make your own choices. That's kind of what they did with TWD.

I'd perfer they follow one of the many side characters in the books than make up their own. Besides that, I expect it would include cannon events. Most importantly, I would want GRRM to confirm the games as canonical like TWD creator did.

I haven't played TWD game, how is it in terms of choices? I'd imagine there are some characters that have to live/die for story's sake, but overall does the player have solid control of events?

I'd love to play a knight or petty lord, determining which great house to support.

Like SensieJink said, choices don't affect where the story eventually heads, but it alters how. While I think your support idea is great, if it follows TWD formula that level of choice won't be availble unless they make up new characters, which I'd rather they didn't.

 

[Dresden]

Think my favorite scene is the Red Viper/Gregor duel. It has everything I love about the series: blood, poison, cursing, Tyrion, hot peppers, random civilian casualties.

So excite. That said, I think a game that followed the books closely would work well.

I hope it's years apart from the books. So much they could cover in Westeros's history without being bound to what's been written already.

I do hope it's more focused on the southern regions, like Dorne and Highgarden. So tired of snow.

 

[Laurentius]

I'd perfer they follow one of the many side characters in the books than make up their own. Besides that, I expect it would include cannon events. Most importantly, I would want GRRM to confirm the games as canonical like TWD creator did.

If they chose a side character, I think Harwin could actually be a really good choice. He's a pretty minor character (giving them leg room to tell a lot of stuff from his perspective), but is around during most of the important events in the first book. Then later, he joins up with the Brotherhood Without Banners, which is something that's mainly only alluded to in the books. But that could lead to some really interesting stuff, I think. We really only see a bit of the Brotherhood and Beric Dondarrion, which gives them a bit of creative freedom AND puts you in a really interesting place in the world.

I hope it's years apart from the books. So much they could cover in Westeros's history without being bound to what's been written already.

I do hope it's more focused on the southern regions, like Dorne and Highgarden. So tired of snow.

This is a really good idea as well.

 

[fallout]

SenseiJinx's assessment of TWD is spot on.

I don't worry about that too much. She was one of the first characters created and is martin's second favorite to write. and she is the only POV to have had a chapter in every book. Whether she goes out or not she has to be an important piece in the final puzzle.

I'm not actually worried about it. I want her to have purpose and I expect she'll have purpose.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I hope it's years apart from the books. So much they could cover in Westeros's history without being bound to what's been written already.

I do hope it's more focused on the southern regions, like Dorne and Highgarden. So tired of snow.

Aegon's Conquest or Robet's Rebellion would be great. If there's more than one season they could do both! Greyjoy rebellion could also work.

If they chose a side character, I think Harwin could actually be a really good choice. He's a pretty minor character (giving them leg room to tell a lot of stuff from his perspective), but is around during most of the important events in the first book. Then later, he joins up with the Brotherhood Without Banners, which is something that's mainly only alluded to in the books. But that could lead to some really interesting stuff, I think. We really only see a bit of the Brotherhood and Beric Dondarrion, which gives them a bit of creative freedom AND puts you in a really interesting place in the world.

Harwin would be a really good choice. Who else do you think? Ser Loras might work. He's there for the big stuff and unlike in the show we don't learn much about his relationship with Renly. I guess that could be a reason not to however.

 

[Laurentius]

Actually, it seems the GOT leak was a red herring or something? Apparently Telltale actually announced a Borderlands game instead of GOT...I don't even know anymore.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Actually, it seems the GOT leak was a red herring or something? Apparently Telltale actually announced a Borderlands game instead of GOT...I don't even know anymore.

That would be cruel.

I thought the first Borderlands was fine (haven't played the second yet), but I still think it's a waste of Telltale's talent.

 

[Laurentius]

It's real, actually! They just showed it. Apparently Telltale is doing both the Borderlands and GOT.

It didn't show any gameplay, just a quick teaser image basically.

Aaaand, apparently the info that was released previously is wrong. It's based on the HBO license and not the books. Meh.

 

[hemtae]

Actually, it seems the GOT leak was a red herring or something? Apparently Telltale actually announced a Borderlands game instead of GOT...I don't even know anymore.

Blue Herring?

 

[You Know Nothing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCdcUhCGZk8

The 30 second trailer.

A bit disappointed it's based on the show. But I'll still be there day one.

 

[Laurentius]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCdcUhCGZk8

The 30 second trailer.

A bit disappointed it's based on the show. But I'll still be there day one.

Likewise, but I suppose it makes sense. With GRRM's recent comments about not really wanting to let anybody else write about Westeros I don't imagine he would want to give licensing rights to another story-centric game. (Especially since the last ones were awful.)

 

[A Human Becoming]

Likewise, but I suppose it makes sense. With GRRM's recent comments about not really wanting to let anybody else write about Westeros I don't imagine he would want to give licensing rights to another story-centric game. (Especially since the last ones were awful.)

This is Telltale though, who showed they can make good canonical stories. Besides, with all the changes the TV series has made, why not?

 

[Laurentius]

This is Telltale though, who showed they can make good canonical stories. Besides, with all the changes the TV series has made, why not?

That logic makes sense to me, but I don't know if it would for GRRM.

Plus, they'll get a bigger marketing budget + exposure through HBO by going with the show.

I would much rather they had based it off the books, but I can understand why it happened this way.

 

[pizza dog]

Walking Dead ongoing, Borderlands, Game of Thrones, Wolf Among Us... Tell Tale has a lot of balls in the air.

Surely I'll play the first episode of this, see if it's worth keeping with.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Really excited at this announcement! I wonder if they'll start from the beginning or just pick up where the show is? I understand that it'll follow new characters but I want to see who's alive and who's a goner in the timeline of the game.

My only concern I suppose is fitting the entire universe into one narrow story. I hope they are able to balance out the different dynamics of each character and each affiliation without getting lost in the details.

 

[Massa]

Maybe they'll explore the parts of the series that HBO doesn't have time to cover on the show. The potential for this game is too great, but I won't be holding my breath.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Maybe they'll explore the parts of the series that HBO doesn't have time to cover on the show.

It's possible, but if it's based on the show I doubt they'll stray too far from what people already know.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

It didn't show any gameplay

They showed the final game already? That was quick.

Spoiler

>_>

 

[cj_iwakura]

I hope it'll just be a side story that references the main plot, but doesn't revolve around it.

"You chose to throw Bran from the window.
He'll remember that."

 

[ToyMachine228]

I don't worry about that too much. She was one of the first characters created and is martin's second favorite to write. and she is the only POV to have had a chapter in every book. Whether she goes out or not she has to be an important piece in the final puzzle.

Arya may die, but if she does I have a feeling its going to be in a blaze of vengeful glory.