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[tmdorsey]

Dany won't die in Essos. She's going to reach the Trident according to prophesy, and likely the Wall too.

I liked Tyrion's ADWD chapters. People expected him to return to being a witty dwarf immediately but he was in a very dark place mentally after ASOS, and his drunken ugly state of mind was fascinating to me. I'm in the minority but I really liked Penny, largely because she brought Tyrion back to life. It was interesting seeing how disgusted he was at her slave mentality, and it's one of the things that convinced him not to drink himself to death.

I didn't expect him to die when he fell in the water but I thought he'd get greyscale for sure. He might have it internally. Also I liked how he sniffed out Aegon and so easily manipulated the so called perfect prince. Varys seems to have created a smart but very arrogant and brash king.

PD,

I'm gonna talk to GRMM and see about getting you on as his editor. You seem to have good insight into the series as a whole.

 

[Laurentius]

Dany's chapters honestly didn't bother me that much other than getting irritated at all of the Ghiscari names. All Oznoz Grawlazkadaz and Skahooshafaz Magooberaz.

I listened to the ADWD audio book, and I think Roy Dotrice did a great job with the various Ghiscari names. Made me actually appreciate them.

 

[pizza dog]

I listened to the ADWD audio book, and I think Roy Dotrice did a great job with the various Ghiscari names. Made me actually appreciate them.

The hardest part about the Meereen chapters is I can't tell a Shavepate from a Skahadhazan.

I'm reading Journey to the West right now, and have a similar disaster trying to keep all those Chinese names straight.

I'm so goddamn white.

 

[Fey]

That award belongs to any one Brienne chapter in AFoC. I stopped midway through AFoC and only resumed reading 6 months later because of those.

lol my friend gave up on FfC entirely because of Brienne.

And I made sure he went in with absolutely low expectations, too, and he was actually liking the book before the Brienne chapters took their toll.

And yeah the biggest problem I had with the Dany chapters were the names. It felt like there were so many (there may have only be 2-3 key characters and I wouldn't know) and the names were so complicated.

I'm just happy the worst seems to be behind us, though. DWD did lots of setting up, so WoW better deliver. >:[

 

[Laurentius]

The Brienne chapters have one of my favorite minor characters in the series -- Septon Meribald.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

I liked Brienne's chapters

 

[Laurentius]

I liked Brienne's chapters

As did I...I can understand the hate for them I think, but I thoroughly enjoyed them.

So glad that Brienne isn't dead. Her hanging at the end of AFFC crushed me. We'd better get some Brienne POV chapters in the next couple of books.

 

[You Know Nothing]

Count me as one of the few who enjoyed Brienne's chapters. Sure nothing really happens in them and they can be classified as filler. But I really like Brienne as a character and both of her battles with the Bloody Mummers are highlights.

And Pod teaming up with her is nice too.

There's a theory about that:

Oh. Yeah, this theory seems highly likely.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Count me as one of the few who enjoyed Brienne's chapters. Sure nothing really happens in them and they can be classified as filler. But I really like Brienne as a character and both of her battles with the Bloody Mummers are highlights.

And Pod teaming up with her is nice too.



Oh. Yeah, this theory seems highly likely.

Does anyone know what Brienne said before her hanging that saved her? I can't remember if it was specified or not.

 

[You Know Nothing]

Does anyone know what Brienne said before her hanging that saved her? I can't remember if it was specified or not.

GRRM confirmed it was "sword."

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

GRRM confirmed it was "sword."

But wasn't that what got her into that mess in the first place? I am so confused.

 

[Kurtofan]

What's the linguistic inspiration for the Ghiscari names? Personally I had no problem with them.

 

[You Know Nothing]

But wasn't that what got her into that mess in the first place? I am so confused.

Lady Stoneheart gave her a choice to swear her sword to her service and bring her Jaime or be hanged. Brienne refused at first and while getting hanged she shouted, "sword" to let them know she'd changed her mind.

I hate that Jaime's last chapter in ADwD is such a cliffhanger.

 

[Laurentius]

But wasn't that what got her into that mess in the first place? I am so confused.

Her original choice was "noose or sword". She didn't want to betray Jaime, so that defaulted to noose until she shouted sword. EDIT: Beaten

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Lady Stoneheart gave her a choice to swear her sword to her service and bring her Jaime or be hanged. Brienne refused at first and while getting hanged she shouted, "sword" to let them know she'd changed her mind.

I hate that Jaime's last chapter in ADwD is such a cliffhanger.

Oh shit. So Brienne is going to lead Jaime into a trap?

That could be incredibly interesting. Considering Brienne is all about honor and loyalty, and she's sworn oaths to both of them. I wonder what she'll do.

 

[You Know Nothing]

“So many vows … they make you swear and swear. Defend the king. Obey the king. Keep his secrets. Do his bidding. Your life for his. But obey your father. Love your sister. Protect the innocent. Defend the weak. Respect the gods. Obey the laws. It’s too much. No matter what you do, you’re forsaking one vow or another.”

― George R.R. Martin, A Clash of Kings

Brienne will finally know what it's like.

 

[Trojita]

Lady Stoneheart gave her a choice to swear her sword to her service and bring her Jaime or be hanged. Brienne refused at first and while getting hanged she shouted, "sword" to let them know she'd changed her mind.

I hate that Jaime's last chapter in ADwD is such a cliffhanger.

She didn't do it for herself. It was for Pod who was being hanged.

Oh shit. So Brienne is going to lead Jaime into a trap?

That could be incredibly interesting. Considering Brienne is all about honor and loyalty, and she's sworn oaths to both of them. I wonder what she'll do.

lol you must have been confused when Brienne appeared in ADWD and asked Jaime to help her save Sansa Stark from the Hound, claiming they are a day's ride away. He of course has to come alone or the hound will kill Sansa.

 

[aFIGurANT]

So was it the Bloody Mummers who were hanging Brienne or was it the Baeric Dondarrion/red priest group who got a hold of her? I totally forget the difference between the two, assuming I ever understood the Bloody Mummers at all, lol.

 

[Trojita]

So was it the Bloody Mummers who were hanging Brienne or was it the Baeric Dondarrion/red priest group who got a hold of her? I totally forget the difference between the two, assuming I ever understood the Bloody Mummers at all, lol.

It was Stoneheart's splitfaction. They are made up of part of Beric's group The Brotherhood without Banners. The Brotherhood split up when some people wanted to go with Stoneheart and take vengeance on the Frey and others didn't.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

She didn't do it for herself. It was for Pod who was being hanged.



lol you must have been confused when Brienne appeared in ADWD and asked Jaime to help her save Sansa Stark from the Hound, claiming they are a day's ride away. He of course has to come alone or the hound will kill Sansa.

Yeah I remembered that Brienne was somehow with Lady Stoneheart but I didn't realize that she pledged herself to bring in Jaime. I need to reread these books again. All the details get fuzzy.

 

[Fey]

The Brienne/Jaime/Lady Stoneheart business smells of trouble and I feel like someone or some people won't come out of it alive.

Hopefully it's finally LS because Jaime still has to kill Cersei.

Yeah I remembered that Brienne was somehow with Lady Stoneheart but I didn't realize that she pledged herself to bring in Jaime. I need to reread these books again. All the details get fuzzy.

We're not told explicitly that she promised to retrieve Jaime. Brienne just shouts a word in her last chapter in FfC, with her fate unknown, and then comes out of nowhere in DwD, claiming she's found Sansa with the Hound and needs Jaime to come alone.

 

[You Know Nothing]

Jaime is the valonqar.

Believe.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

We're not told explicitly that she promised to retrieve Jaime. Brienne just shouts a word in her last chapter in FfC, with her fate unknown, and then comes out of nowhere in DwD, claiming she's found Sansa with the Hound and needs Jaime to come alone.

Yeah. As I said, I wonder who Brienne will side with. Either way, she's breaking a vow. She might have some other plan up her sleeve, but I'm not sure.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Some people believe that Coldheart/BWB will use Jaime to gain further access to Riverrun. They already have someone inside the castle, but if they can get Jaime to open the gates they could further infiltrate/capture it.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/70918-red-wedding-20/

also, Nymeria's pack is still in that general area. Imagine if Jaime opened the gates and a pack of wolves killed every Frey/Lannister in the castle lol.

 

[Dresden]

She'll probably ask Jaime to plunge his sword into her. The steel sword, not the other one.

 

[Fey]

Some people believe that Coldheart/BWB will use Jaime to gain further access to Riverrun. They already have someone inside the castle, but if they can get Jaime to open the gates they could further infiltrate/capture it.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/70918-red-wedding-20/

also, Nymeria's pack is still in that general area. Imagine if Jaime opened the gates and a pack of wolves killed every Frey/Lannister in the castle lol.

:O

That would be very cool and make sense, with LS in on it, too.

And even Arya kinda getting in on it again, too.

 

[You Know Nothing]

Arya warging into Nymeria right as she's chowing down on some Freys and Lannisters.

I hope it happens.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

I want an Arya / Nymeria reunion more.

PLEASE.

 

[You Know Nothing]

Like GRRM would ever be that nice. I'd really love it too, though.

And I really dig that fanart.

 

[pizza dog]

Jaime is the valonqar.

Believe.

He was born second to her. He is the little brother.

It's almost too obvious though. Like at this point it's been such a wink-and-a-nod about how much she hates Tyrion and believes it's him, everybody and their mother is probably expecting it to be Jaime for the dramatic irony of it. Which makes Jaime being the valonqar the other kind of irony.

 

[Trojita]

He was born second to her. He is the little brother.

It's almost too obvious though. Like at this point it's been such a wink-and-a-nod about how much she hates Tyrion and believes it's him, everybody and their mother is probably expecting it to be Jaime for the dramatic irony of it. Which makes Jaime being the valonqar the other kind of irony.

or it could be Tommen.

 

[Crisco]

Everytime i see this thread near the top, I click on it expecting TWOW news. I'm always disappointed

 

[Trojita]

Everytime i see this thread near the top, I click on it expecting TWOW news. I'm always disappointed

Oh sweet summer child.

 

[pizza dog]

Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.

Tommen should be too busy being dead. But fuckin' whatever. The valonqar is Victarion Greyjoy for all we know. He's a little brother.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Tommen should be too busy being dead. But fuckin' whatever. The valonqar is Victarion Greyjoy for all we know. He's a little brother.

Watch Rickon kill Cersei.

 

[You Know Nothing]

And then of course there's the consideration that valonqar is a Valyrian word and might be used to refer to both males and females.

So it could be referring to a little brother or little sister and not necessarily one of Cersei's own blood.

Spoiler

Arya returns to Westeros as a Faceless Man and successfully assassinates Cersei.

 

[pizza dog]

And then of course there's the consideration that valonqar is a Valyrian word and might be used to refer to both males and females.

So it could be referring to a little brother or little sister and not necessarily one of Cersei's own blood.

Spoiler

Arya returns to Westeros as a Faceless Man and successfully assassinates Cersei.

Championship. Or Danerys for that matter.

Aye. Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear.

This one obviously doesn't refer to Margaery 'cuz that's too easy... UNLESS IT BEING DANY IS ALSO TOO EASY OH GOD.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

And then of course there's the consideration that valonqar is a Valyrian word and might be used to refer to both males and females.

So it could be referring to a little brother or little sister and not necessarily one of Cersei's own blood.

Spoiler

Arya returns to Westeros as a Faceless Man and successfully assassinates Cersei.

Yes please.

This one obviously doesn't refer to Margaery 'cuz that's too easy... UNLESS IT BEING DANY IS ALSO TOO EASY OH GOD.

Sansa is technically Queen in the North now. It could be her...

Spoiler

I still think she's a goner

 

[pizza dog]

Sansa is technically Queen in the North now. It could be her...

Spoiler

I still think she's a goner

Depends on what you mean by "technically"... But:

Spoiler

God I hope so she's so overdue for an icing[/quote].

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Depends on what you mean by "technically"... But:

Spoiler

God I hope so she's so overdue for an icing

Spoiler

Well Jon never got the letter, right? He chose to stay with his brothers when Stannis offered him power. Bran and Rickon are both "dead" as is Arya so as far as the general population of Westeros knows Sansa is Robb's heir.

 

[pizza dog]

Well Jon never got the letter, right? He chose to stay with his brothers when Stannis offered him power. Bran and Rickon are both "dead" as is Arya so as far as the general population of Westeros knows Sansa is Robb's heir.

I mean if you ask King's Landing, "technically" there is no King in the North nor claim to same title. There's Lord Bolton who's Warden of the North but. Either way I've said it before but laws are pretty much completely and totally moot at this point anyway. Succession only matters insofar as more people will follow you than will resist.

 

[TestOfTide]

He was born second to her. He is the little brother.

It's almost too obvious though. Like at this point it's been such a wink-and-a-nod about how much she hates Tyrion and believes it's him, everybody and their mother is probably expecting it to be Jaime for the dramatic irony of it. Which makes Jaime being the valonqar the other kind of irony.

I'm still going with my theory:

Spoiler

- Brienne and Jaime make a deal with stoneheart.
- Brienne and Jaime head to KIng's Landing with the hounds armor
- Brienne wears the hounds armor and fights Gregor (Robert Strong)
- Jaime watches
- Brienne loses; is killed (depending on what happens to her helmet and how human gregor is, possibly raped)
- Jaime processes the fact that he just watched brienne get killed (and possibly raped) after realizing that she was the first woman he connected with who wasn't maipulating him
- Cersei celebrates winning trial by combat
- Jaime jumps into the audience's sight to confess to his incest relationship with cersei, thus denying cersei any connection to the throne.
- Jaime and Cersei kill each other

 

[You Know Nothing]

Well really, the general population of Westeros doesn't know shit about Sansa because Sansa's dead/missing at the moment and Petyr's bastard daughter Alayne has taken her place.

But once Littlefinger's plan to marry her off comes to fruition, then she'll obviously be viewed as the Queen in the North. Northerners will certainly support her claim because "Arya" is a fraud, all of them know it, and they pretty much all hate the Boltons and their part in the Red Wedding anyway.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

I mean if you ask King's Landing, "technically" there is no King in the North nor claim to same title. There's Lord Bolton who's Warden of the North but. Either way I've said it before but laws are pretty much completely and totally moot at this point anyway. Succession only matters insofar as more people will follow you than will resist.

Right. Anything is possible. And even in the eyes of the Lannisters, Sansa is Robb's heir regardless of whether or not they're lords or queens or whatever. That being said, I can honestly see Sansa becoming queen with Littlefinger's help.

 

[pizza dog]

Well really, the general population of Westeros doesn't know shit about Sansa because Sansa's dead/missing at the moment and Petyr's bastard daughter Alayne has taken her place.

But once Littlefinger's plan to marry her off comes to fruition, then she'll obviously be viewed as the Queen in the North. Northerners will certainly support her claim because "Arya" is a fraud, all of them know it, and they pretty much all hate the Boltons and their part in the Red Wedding anyway.

Some Northerners, maybe. Not the Northerners what already got Rickon squirreled away. THIS GAME HAS TOO MANY FUCKING PIECES IT IS STRAIGHT IMPOSSIBLE TO SPECULATE ABOUT ANYTHING HURRY YOUR ASS UP MARTIN SHIT.

 

[DrForester]

Do the Bolton's know Arya is a fake? I forget if they confirmed they know or not.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Do the Bolton's know Arya is a fake? I forget if they confirmed they know or not.

Roose does, I'm not sure about Ramsay.

 

[Dresden]

But once Littlefinger's plan to marry her off comes to fruition, then she'll obviously be viewed as the Queen in the North. Northerners will certainly support her claim because "Arya" is a fraud, all of them know it, and they pretty much all hate the Boltons and their part in the Red Wedding anyway.

After the Lannister/Bolton ruse with the fake Arya, any claim from Littlefinger - or anyone not of the North - is going to be viewed with suspicion. And it wouldn't be politically expedient for northerners to support Sansa even if they were convinced it was truly her.

 

[ToyMachine228]

Random thought that occurred to me today...Is it ever explained how Melisandre and Stannis came to link up before we meet them? Did she just show up and pledge fealty to him? How did she gain so much influence?

 

[Trojita]

Well Jon never got the letter, right? He chose to stay with his brothers when Stannis offered him power. Bran and Rickon are both "dead" as is Arya so as far as the general population of Westeros knows Sansa is Robb's heir.

It will get there eventually. The Swamp Ninja is just taking forever to make an appearance.

Jon's oath to the Watch will end after he is dead and then resurrected.