You Know Nothing
Member
It's mentioned by Thoros I believe that a number of red priests came to Westeros as missionaries.
I believe Melisandre was one of them, ended up on Dragonstone, got Selyse's attention, and then the rest happened.
A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
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It's mentioned by Thoros I believe that a number of red priests came to Westeros as missionaries.
I believe Melisandre was one of them, ended up on Dragonstone, got Selyse's attention, and then the rest happened.
Laurentius
Member
I wonder how long Melisandre has been hanging out in Westeros...because Thoros came way back in the day to try and convert Aerys, right? Melisandre seems to be much earlier. So either she's be trudging around Westeros for some 10+ or so odd years before hanging out with Stannis, or she's from a newer batch of missionaries.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Speaking of....I think the thing I'm most excited for is Howland's appearance.
You Know Nothing
Member
Howland Reed better have some megatons.
Like confirming that Lyanna and Rhaegar are Jon's parents. And also what happened to Ashara Dayne and why. The whole threw herself from a tower in grief story seems very fishy.
Yeah, Thoros came back when Aerys was still in power. The red temples thought he'd be easier to convert because of his insane obsession with love of fire.
And there doesn't seem to be much indication in the books that Melisandre and Thoros know each other. So I'd say she definitely traveled with a newer batch of missionaries.
Like confirming that Lyanna and Rhaegar are Jon's parents. And also what happened to Ashara Dayne and why. The whole threw herself from a tower in grief story seems very fishy.
Yeah, Thoros came back when Aerys was still in power. The red temples thought he'd be easier to convert because of his
And there doesn't seem to be much indication in the books that Melisandre and Thoros know each other. So I'd say she definitely traveled with a newer batch of missionaries.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Watch Howland Reed be a bigger villain than Walder Frey, Roose Bolton, and the entire Lannister clan combined.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Watch Howland Reed die and the answer to Jon's lineage never be answered.
I almost feel this way, too.
It's the same with the "younger, more beautiful Queen." Cersei believes it's Margaery, and I think GRRM is trying his best to make us think it's actually Daenerys, but I'd love for both of them to not be it and the younger Queen to be Sansa, or Brienne. Or even no one.
But Sansa or Brienne would be much more satisfying than Daenerys. Sansa has bad history with Cersei, and Brienne's a big reason for Jaime's growth in character, which has made him despise and abandon Cersei. Marg is too obvious, for the same reasons as Tyrion, and Dany wouldn't be as satisfying as I doubt one has even thought about the other.
I'm curious as to why you think Sansa will die? Maybe it's because I think she's one of the best characters in the series ( 8] ) but I've always thought Sansa was one of the few characters who will be safe until the end.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
At this point in time, I see her becoming Queen in the North and therefore a target of the Iron Throne. I think that Littlefinger will play the field and manipulate players which will somehow result in Sansa's death.
It's all speculation, and I know that.
I also feel that the controversial scene could be her death. She's so young and innocent, it would certainly be a downer for a lot of readers, especially those who have been rooting for the Starks from the beginning.
Laurentius
Member
Speaking of Sansa, which Stark child (if any) do you think will meet Lady Stoneheart first? It's going to be horrible whoever it is. Would be better if she just dies for real before running into Arya or Sansa or Rickon...
As sad as it is to say Arya might be the only one who has seem so much fucked up shit that she could handle seeing her. I mean she did subconsciously pull the body out of the river and I really do think Beric gave up his life for Cat because of the promise he made to Arya and probably felt bad for her even though they knew Cat would die they probably didn't think they'd have a chance to bring her back.
I really would like for it to be Arya that gives her peace after the thing she has learned from the faceless men about death.
Steelyuhas
Member
BOTH
Moff
Member
I did exactly the same.
Basileus777
Member
GRRM ran into major structural problems mid series. There was originally supposed to be a 5 year gap after the end of ASOS, but it didn't work and Martin struggled for years to write around it, then scrapped it, and then ran into more structural problems as a result of that change.
Basically GRRM didn't plan things out well, found out his idea for a time skip didn't work, and had to spend years figuring out things.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Bran, through the weirwood internet.
Exterminieren
Banned
Well, the major structural problems (the time jump and the Meereenese Knot) resolved themselves by the time ADWD was finished. Combine that with the boot HBO undoubtedly has in his back now, and I wouldn't be surprised if we got TWOW within a year and a half.
Man, I want to believe this so hard, but it's the gurm we're talking about here.
Basileus777
Member
A year and a half would be mid to late 2015. That would give him 3.5 years of writing. It's possible.
Just don't believe anyone talking about a 2014 release.
Jawmuncher
Member
I just finished all the books this past weekend and definitely enjoyed myself throughout.
Can't wait for the next book but there's one question I have to ask.
I understand that the dagger was given to the guy from joffrey to kill bran.
Exactly how was Littlefinger in on it? Or was he just thinking on his toes through all of that.
Can't wait for the next book but there's one question I have to ask.
I understand that the dagger was given to the guy from joffrey to kill bran.
Exactly how was Littlefinger in on it? Or was he just thinking on his toes through all of that.
I know this is a bit much, but if anyone can help me gather a compilation of all chapters/excerpts/etc that have been released from The Winds of Winter, I'd gladly appreciate that. *sweating*
See, I'm a spoiler whore and no amount of spoilers have sated me thus far... and I'll set to take help whenever and wherever I can get it.
See, I'm a spoiler whore and no amount of spoilers have sated me thus far... and I'll set to take help whenever and wherever I can get it.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Bran or Arya. Bran through the trees and Arya when she (hopefully) comes back to Westeros to start taking names off her list.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
I didn't think Joffrey was involved at all. Littlefinger lied about the dagger belonging to Tyrion, just like how he set up Tyrion to be blamed for poisoning Joffrey. Whether or not he actually wanted to kill Bran I'm not sure seeing he sent an amateur. Regardless, having instructed Lysa to send the letter to Catshit saying the Lannisters killed Jon Arryn, he wanted the Starks to be suspicious of them.
Basileus777
Member
Littlefinger just took advantage of an opportunity to escalate things towards war. He wasn't in on it from the start, that was Joffrey just overhearing Robert and deciding to be his crazy self.
Joffrey tried to kill Bran, he just wasn't part of Littlefinger's scheming that took place later. The dagger was Robert's.
Jawmuncher
Member
Ahh ok that definitely puts it more into perspective now.
That was the only part of the book that I was a little bit unsure about.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
I thought Littlefinger won it at the tourney Jamie lost? Why would Joffrey want Bran dead anyway? Orders from Jamie or Cersei?
The dagger was in Roberts possession at Winterfell. After Brans fall, Robert ( in his cups ) mentions that it would be a mercy to kill the boy. Joffrey overhears this and wants to impress on Robert.
Hence, stupid as Joffrey is, he arms a random rogue with a blade worth more than his reward ( a bag of silver I think ) to kill a boy, who many thought was going to die anyway. Also, when Tyrion describes the dagger to Joffrey, he get flushed, as if realizing that Tyrion knew about his deed.
Littlefinger merely takes advantage of situation once he finds out about it.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
He overheard Robert saying how it would be a pity to let him live as a cripple and that Bran dying would be a kindness. He did it to win Robert's love and approval.
Basileus777
Member
Joffrey overheard Robert saying that it would be kinder if Bran had died. He takes the dagger Robert had won and gives it to the assassin. Jaime figures it out in ASOS.
That's cute, you actually believed a story Littlefinger told.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
>.< Too many lies!
Anyways, thanks for the clarification. I guess I'm too eager to blame Littlefinger for everything lol
Yup, even the boring Tyrion ADWD chapters don't hold a candle to these. I'll also throw in some of Sam's chapters in Braavos or Damphair's for consideration. AFFC was hard to read
The Damphair's chapters managed to be even less useful to the story than Quentyn's chapters. Neither needed a POV and their contributions to the story could have been just as well (better) told through other, already established, POVs.
Edit: The fact that I didn't connect with Quentyn enough to care about his death even after he was a POV character was a major failing of the book.
platypotamus
Member
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
Conventional wisdom is it's Margaery. Reader's intuition says it's Dany. But who the fuck knows, prophecies gonna prophecy.
timetokill
Banned
I think it'll be Brienne.
Prophecies are funny things, and while we're thinking about who is more beautiful than Cersei, it's easy to ignore that she could also just be made a lot uglier. Which she has been by this point.
Jaime will then choose Brienne over Cersei, completing the arc as he determines Brienne to be the "more beautiful" between the two.
Laurentius
Member
Wait, did I miss something? In what way could Brienne be considered a queen?
PhoenixDark
Banned
Honestly I think Cersei will be dead before Dany arrives anywhere close to King's Landing. I think the queen will either be Margery, Sansa, or Arianne.
The prophesy also seems to suggest Tommen will die, and Myrcella will become queen.
Of course if Tommen dies, Margery is no longer a queen.
The prophesy also seems to suggest Tommen will die, and Myrcella will become queen.
Of course if Tommen dies, Margery is no longer a queen.
timetokill
Banned
Eh, she could dress up as one for a split-second and that would fulfill the prophecy. I don't think it's a detail that precludes the possibility, anyway.
Yeah that was almost unbearable to read through.
Laurentius
Member
I think I'll cry myself to sleep tonight at all of the Brienne chapter hate. =(
(On a side note, I found the Bran and Sansa chapters to generally be the most boring during my reading.)
(On a side note, I found the Bran and Sansa chapters to generally be the most boring during my reading.)
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I really didn't mind the Brienne chapters.
No, those are my favorite POVps
Brienne is one of the worst. The worsts are Areo Hotah and Arys Oakheart by miles, 0 personality from them.
I loved the Bran chapters as it helped flesh out the mythology of the universe, but Brienne's were an eyesore especially that one where she's in some town looking for Sansa and she says that's here sister or something. Sansa chapters were good in that we see her evolve from that naive little girl into some who is more aware of what the world really is like.
Laurentius
Member
I'm not saying that they were bad. They just didn't click with me for whatever reason. I may enjoy them more on future reads.
*shrug* And on a equal note I don't accept the idea that Brienne's chapters were objectively bad. You may have had your complaints about them or not enjoyed them for whatever reason. That's fine. But it doesn't discount the fact that some people did find them enjoyable -- just like how my dislike of Bran's chapters doesn't mean they are objectively bad, or discount your enjoyment of them.
*shrug* And on a equal note I don't accept the idea that Brienne's chapters were objectively bad. You may have had your complaints about them or not enjoyed them for whatever reason. That's fine. But it doesn't discount the fact that some people did find them enjoyable -- just like how my dislike of Bran's chapters doesn't mean they are objectively bad, or discount your enjoyment of them.
I suppose it's interesting to see how polarizing some things are.
For example, I'm the opposite of the Brienne complaints. I probably didn't have much interest in Bran or the extended Daenerys plots, but Brienne is one of my absolute favorite characters in the series, along with Arya, and I liked following both their stories.
I had almost ZERO interest for Rob Stark to give another example, and didn't care much about Ned Stark.
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