PhoenixDark
Banned
Actually it's 80 pages from a far larger, complete story. Martin said it's 30k words out of the total 80k he did. The full story will be in an as-of-yet-titled novel, to be released after he completes ASOIAF.
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
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Actually it's 80 pages from a far larger, complete story. Martin said it's 30k words out of the total 80k he did. The full story will be in an as-of-yet-titled novel, to be released after he completes ASOIAF.
Cornballer
Member
Ah, that's interesting. He did a solid job of condensing it, though it will be fun to read through the whole version at some point.
I wouldn't be surprised if we got some WoW stuff in season 5 before the actual book comes out, either.
Unless they like add filler scenes to the characters who have little material to work with in FfC and DwD in order to avoid doing that.
Man, the show is catching up quicker than I thought!
That's maybe a case of rushing to get that kid turned into a tree before he gets too old. Then you can stop paying the twerp.
We were talking about succession of the title King in the North a little while ago... doesn't Robb also have a secret heir? Least, we've not confirmed that whole business of Jeyne and the moontea. I suppose the TV show closes that door, or at the least signals that any secret heir isn't a major player going forward...
Laurentius
Member
Robb's heir was/is supposed to be Jon.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
The optimism is continuing to rise, I think. Based on this and the Cunningham comment, I think 2014 is looking very likely.
Here's to hoping it all comes together soon.
PhoenixDark
Banned
While many were most disappointed about Tyrion not meeting Dany in ADWD, my biggest disappointment was the lack of news on Robb's will; I really thought we'd hear something about it. The last couple years have instead seen the creation of my favorite ASOIAF speculation: The Grand Northern Conspiracy. I know we've discussed it before, but I'll post the link again since our conversation has returned to Jon/the North.
http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1iwfc1/spoilers_all_the_grand_northern_conspiracy_parts/
I gotta say, while I really want the book to come out, I've enjoyed this period of speculation and theories a lot more than I did during the long ADWD wait. There's just so much stuff in ADWD to theorize about, to figure out, etc. I've enjoyed watching things develop, seeing some of the articles and analysis folks have made, etc.
With respect to the will/Jon: I don't think Manderly knows about it, but I definitely think his Rickon plot is well underway and that the Boltons/Freys are about to get fucked.
http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1iwfc1/spoilers_all_the_grand_northern_conspiracy_parts/
I gotta say, while I really want the book to come out, I've enjoyed this period of speculation and theories a lot more than I did during the long ADWD wait. There's just so much stuff in ADWD to theorize about, to figure out, etc. I've enjoyed watching things develop, seeing some of the articles and analysis folks have made, etc.
With respect to the will/Jon: I don't think Manderly knows about it, but I definitely think his Rickon plot is well underway and that the Boltons/Freys are about to get fucked.
Yeah I know that's what he wrote, but I was just wondering if there was a little a westerling warg running around.
I agree with all these points. I wouldn't love these books half as much without having this thread and the like to share in wild and baseless speculation.
platypotamus
Member
I think it's mostly just that this period hasn't been as long (yet). If WoW takes another few years to come out, you'll be just as burnt out on this speculation as you got after AFFC
butzopower
proud of his butz
I'm sure I'm not the first to think this, but I feel like there's hints that Jamie and Ceresi aren't Tywin's children, but maybe Aerys II.
It would make Jamie and Tyrion both killers of their fathers, both "Kingslayers", both kinslayers, etc etc.
The whole scene of Jamie sitting the throne after killing Aerys would be choke full of irony, given he would technically be the eldest heir to the throne at that time, since Rhaegar was killed, although maybe not since he took the Kingsguard oath.
The whole theme of incest to protect a weaker genetics seems to make sense, too, since I think the Targaryen's inbred because their seed was weak, and so that would explain why Jamie and Ceresi don't look Targaryen, as they have a strong Lannister blood on their mother's side.
It would make Ceresi and Dany sisters, in a weird allusion to the Dance of the Dragons, or even to being the sisters of some Targaryen male who reconquer Westeros similar to Aegon.
Also, maybe it's just more smoke from GRRM that is distracting from the real fire.
It would make Jamie and Tyrion both killers of their fathers, both "Kingslayers", both kinslayers, etc etc.
The whole scene of Jamie sitting the throne after killing Aerys would be choke full of irony, given he would technically be the eldest heir to the throne at that time, since Rhaegar was killed, although maybe not since he took the Kingsguard oath.
The whole theme of incest to protect a weaker genetics seems to make sense, too, since I think the Targaryen's inbred because their seed was weak, and so that would explain why Jamie and Ceresi don't look Targaryen, as they have a strong Lannister blood on their mother's side.
It would make Ceresi and Dany sisters, in a weird allusion to the Dance of the Dragons, or even to being the sisters of some Targaryen male who reconquer Westeros similar to Aegon.
Also, maybe it's just more smoke from GRRM that is distracting from the real fire.
You Know Nothing
Member
You're definitely not the first to mention it. The internet is rife with theories of practically everyone being a secret Targ.
I'm not really opposed to the idea of Jaime and Cersei being Aerys' children. I just don't buy into it. At all.
I'm not really opposed to the idea of Jaime and Cersei being Aerys' children. I just don't buy into it. At all.
I think Tyrion being a secret Targ is far more likely.
Laurentius
Member
There have been lots of theories about "secret Targaryens", including all of the Lannister kids.
Personally, I hope none of it is true, if only because I feel it would weaken so much of the dynamic between Tywin and his children from earlier books (especially between him and Tyrion).
Personally, I hope none of it is true, if only because I feel it would weaken so much of the dynamic between Tywin and his children from earlier books (especially between him and Tyrion).
PhoenixDark
Banned
True but I'd also argue these theories are way more interesting than the stuff that was theorized after AFFC. I remember the main speculation being the Grand Tyrell Conspiracy, Tyrion being Dany's Hand, and of course the Young Griff/Aegon stuff.
MrOogieBoogie
BioShock Infinite is like playing some homeless guy's vivid imagination
Now I'm going to avoid reading any of the posts ITT for fear of spoilers as I'm not even finished with A Feast for Crows, and if you choose to respond to me please refrain from spoiling anything, but I just read one of the most (if not the most) shocking and horrifying deaths in this series. I just needed to post about it.
Now I'm terribly sad.
Brienne being eaten alive by Biter. Jesus fucking Christ that was brutal. Was in disbelief. Caught me by as much surprise--perhaps even more so--than the Red Wedding.
Now I'm terribly sad.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
I'm not sure how I would feel about any of Tywin's kids being secret Targs, would probably depend on how Martin handles it, but I can't deny that Martin has built it up with subtle and not so subtle hints if it does happen. I've seen some fans claim it would come out of nowhere or wouldn't make sense, but to me it's clear that the hints are there. Of course I feel it's more likely at this that it's just Martin messing with people, but would not be shocked if it does happen.
I also kind of disagree that it would weaken the earlier books. If anything, if handled well, it could actually strengthen them. For example, if Tyrion would be a Targ, it would mean him and Jaime killed each other's fathers. And at the time of the murder Tywin was the only father Tyrion had ever known, so even if he will later be revealed as Aerys's bastard, it does not retroactively diminish the importance of the moment. If anything, it might reveal something new about Tywin, if he chose to raise someone else's kid (assuming he knew).
Some people talk about Tyrion being a secret targ. That's pretty much the only thing that would disappoint me immensely, it would take out so much of his relationship with Tywin. If Cersei and Jaime were to be secret targ it would feel lazy because it was set it up pretty late in the books but it wouldn't hit me as much.
butzopower
proud of his butz
I feel like it's more of a GRRM style irony if Jamie/Ceresi were Aerys' children, and Tywin loved the children he didn't actually father more than his own true son Tyrion.
Given that Tywin and Joanne were cousins, it might make more sense why Tyrion is deformed and her other children weren't. Maybe Tywin even knew J/C weren't his own children, and had to live with the fact knowing someone else could have children with his wife, but when he tried to, she dies during childbirth. I feel like so much of Tywin's hatred for Tyrion was actually hatred he had for himself.
Was it though, if it were true? The main plot of AGoT was based around Jamie/Ceresi being incestual, and Ceresi even brings up how the Targaryeans used to breed with each other as one justification. If she were a Targaryean that would totally have been intentional foreshadowing on GRRM's part straight from the beginning.
CornBurrito
Member
What if he dies before it is finished?
I guess that's true but it would still feel cheap since Jon Snow is definitely a targ already.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Now I'm going to avoid reading any of the posts ITT for fear of spoilers as I'm not even finished with A Feast for Crows, and if you choose to respond to me please refrain from spoiling anything, but I just read one of the most (if not the most) shocking and horrifying deaths in this series. I just needed to post about it.
Brienne being eaten alive by Biter. Jesus fucking Christ that was brutal. Was in disbelief. Caught me by as much surprise--perhaps even more so--than the Red Wedding.
Now I'm terribly sad.
Um
Targaryens were a myth?
CrashBandicoot
Member
They were all Reeds
Laurentius
Member
All Targaryens were secretly Benjen Stark.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Now I'm going to avoid reading any of the posts ITT for fear of spoilers as I'm not even finished with A Feast for Crows, and if you choose to respond to me please refrain from spoiling anything, but I just read one of the most (if not the most) shocking and horrifying deaths in this series. I just needed to post about it.
Brienne being eaten alive by Biter. Jesus fucking Christ that was brutal. Was in disbelief. Caught me by as much surprise--perhaps even more so--than the Red Wedding.
Now I'm terribly sad.
*_*
Same. If anything it would be interesting to see Cersei and Jaime be bastards of some servant. Tyrion being Tywin's only legitimate child would be some sweet, sweet irony.
MrOogieBoogie
BioShock Infinite is like playing some homeless guy's vivid imagination
Just reread that passage because of your post.
OOOOOOOOHHHHHHH
I think I just read it too quickly the first time.
To be clear, I said "revealed". I'm fine with there being Targs, I just don't care for the incessant "everyone's a secret Targ" theories.
butzopower
proud of his butz
To me it's not so much about them being Targaryeans, because who cares really, as much as what it implies to their relationships to all the other characters. Really, I just want to see Jamie deal with realizing he killed his own father, since he's justified it to himself all this time as being the best thing he's even done for the realm.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
Only thing I wouldn't like about Jon being a targ is he wouldn't' be a dragon based on burning his hand saving Mormont. Besides for that, him being the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna would be so awesome...which means it won't happen.
FootballFan
Member
Only thing I wouldn't like about Jon being a targ is he wouldn't' be a dragon based on burning his hand saving Mormont. Besides for that, him being the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna would be so awesome...which means it won't happen.
Fire resistance is not a trait of Targaryens. Dany survived the pyre due to some miraculous chance. Jon getting burned does not disqualify him of having Targ blood.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
Only thing I wouldn't like about Jon being a targ is he wouldn't' be a dragon based on burning his hand saving Mormont. Besides for that, him being the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna would be so awesome...which means it won't happen.
what does that mean? targaryens are not immune to fire, if that's what you mean.
You Know Nothing
Member
Yeah, Targs are just as susceptible to fire as any other person. Remember Aerion Brightflame who thought he could drink wildfire and become a dragon? It didn't really work out too well for him.
What happened with Dany and her dragons is a once in forever miracle pretty much.
What happened with Dany and her dragons is a once in forever miracle pretty much.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
The show is probably messing this up for me. Did Danny not show resistance to fire before walking into the flame?
Frank the Great
Banned
I'm pretty sure I remember a scene with a scalding hot bath that didn't affect Dany at all . . . or am I imagining that? It's been a while.
I really thought this entire time that she was just immune from fire.
I don't think so.
The only thing I remember was her walking into a really hot bath, but I don't think that means she's immune to fire.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
There's a scene where Dany picks an egg up out of the fire and Irri comes in and tries to save her and ends up burning her hands, but Dany learns that her hands are actually fine.
King Allant
Member
isn't that only in the show?
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Yeah, I thought that's what you guys were talking about. Lol.
As for the books, there's the bath scene.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Dany gets nearly blasted in the face by Drogon and doesn't feel anything, only her hair is burned. Plus when she jumps on him she notices metal arrow shafts that are melting. Clearly she has some type of protection from fire, but I don't think she's 100% fire proof. Her hands are singed in her last ADWD chapter.
Basically she'd die if you dropped molten gold on her, or kicked her in a volcano. But she does seem to have some protection. Martin has said the pyre scene was a magical, one time event.
Basically she'd die if you dropped molten gold on her, or kicked her in a volcano. But she does seem to have some protection. Martin has said the pyre scene was a magical, one time event.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I thought she ducked with just her hair getting singed.
Basileus777
Member
Renly didn't know about the incest until Stannis revealed it.
butzopower
proud of his butz
Renly and Loras were trying to take power from the Lannisters / get the Tyrells more involved before Robert gets killed. They thought they could get Robert to fall in love with Margery because they hoped she looked like Lyanna, but Ned tells them she doesn't at all. I don't really know what their motivation was, though. Maybe if the Tyrells were more involved, it would strengthen Renly's claim/power had Robert actually lived longer.
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