Basileus777
Member
Renly didn't know Joffrey wasn't Robert's son until after he crowned himself. Or at the same time anyway, whenever Stannis sent those ravens out.
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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Renly didn't know Joffrey wasn't Robert's son until after he crowned himself. Or at the same time anyway, whenever Stannis sent those ravens out.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
This.
Poor Viserys, already forgotten. Or do people think he was not a real Targaryen?
He has twice the Targ blood Jon does, and was still not immune to burning to death.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Come back here after you finish the last Brienne chapter in AFFC. You are going to invariably have a question to ask us.
butzopower
proud of his butz
I think Renly's got a lot of complicated motives/feelings. He was given Storm's End instead of Stannis, and was a large part of the small council, so he probably feels more closely following in Robert's footsteps than Stannis or Joffery. He also sees how poorly Robert runs the kingdom, and feels he has all the opposite traits that make Robert a bad king.
Out of all the people wanting to rule the Iron Throne (not Robb or Balon), Renly would probably have been the best ruler, though given that he'd have trouble giving heirs, he'd probably have left a lot of chaos as well. I don't feel like he wanted to be king just to be king, he saw it more as a duty and less as a right, sort of in the Varys sense.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Renly loves to be the source of attention and has a flair for the dramatic.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Renly was a complete egomaniac. He wanted to be King because he thought it would be great fun, and because he believed he was the best. But he would have been abysmally bad as a King. People might like him better than Stannis, but he has little in the way of any leadership ability, and all we saw of him in A Clash of Kings was him treating everything like a game. There's no way he could ever hold the realm together.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Someone once described Renly as, "I should be the king because I'm the... prettiest one.". lol, not even that hyperbolic.
You Know Nothing
Member
Such a good quote. And so very true.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
It should be attributed to the character that said it more than the author, I think. Donal Noye FTW.
Donal Noye FTW.You Know Nothing
Member
True, true. I was just lazy and copy/pasted.
I miss Donal.
I miss Donal.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
It's not about being a true Targaryen, it has to do with having "the blood of the dragon". It's a special trait only some Targaryen's have. People thought Rhaegar was the last "dragon". It might have something to do with the 50% chance of a Targaryen being mad.Poor Viserys, already forgotten. Or do people think he was not a real Targaryen?
Or I could be making this all up.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
At most you are quoting Dany's dumb ass.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I'm not sure if this is true or not but "being a dragon" does not have to do with being impervious to fire, but rather, having the qualities of leadership and fierceness that have defined the Targaryen line for generations. Viserys was an idiot, and while he had a temper, he turned out to be a weakling and a coward. Dany is not like that. She is an idiot sometimes as well, but she also has a sense of leadership, strong morals, and bravery that both Aerys and Viserys lacked. It seems as though Rhaegar was very much like Dany.
hemtae
Member
Didn't one Targaryen want to turn into a dragon?
You Know Nothing
Member
Aerion Brightflame. He notably drank wildfire thinking it would do just that and promptly died screaming.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Aerys just liked burning people simply because he could.
demosthenes
Member
He killed him b/c he was going to burn the city and everyone in it.
Moff
Member
yes, that was obvious
but here is what I meant, transcript from season 3 , episode 5, where jaime talks to brienne in the bathtub
First, I killed the pyromancer.
And then when the king
turned to flee,
I drove my sword into his back.
"Burn them all,"
he kept saying
"Burn them all."
I don't think
he expected to die.
He-- he meant to...
burn with the rest of us
and rise again,
reborn as a dragon
to turn his enemies to ash.
I slit his throat to make sure
that didn't happen.
so agian
jaime mentioned that Aerys II thought he would turn into a dragon, and he made it sound like that was the point where he finally decided to kill him
butzopower
proud of his butz
Feel like they always stab people on the show when they don't in the books. Jamie makes a point that all he had to do to kill Aerys was slit his throat, and thought it should be harder to kill a king than just that.
Pretty sure it's also hinted that he had some sort of sexual fetish with it. Maybe if not the burning it was the surge of power he got in physically harming/killing others, since he at least enjoyed biting/scratching a great deal based on what either Jaimie or Barristan says.
You Know Nothing
Member
Yeah. One passage even describes how he would rape his wife after burning people to death.
I don't like how they make stab him in the back in the show.
From the wiki.
The realization that his bodyguard would be the king's death must have been terrifying. But if Jaime stabbed him in the back there would be no such thing.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
Sign you're a real weirdo: Randomly saying "King of/in the North!" out loud, in a distinct voice, when no one else is present.
Victory Red
Member
I always say out load "Jawn Shnohw" in an Ygritte impersonation.
I dont know why. I say it a lot. I constantly said it out loud while reading Feast and Dance, while my fiancee who only watches the show is in the next room. She would always say, "Well I guess he's still alive."
PhoenixDark
Banned
In the recent Princess And The Queen novella, there's a particular dragon that escapes Westeros never to be seen again; the dragon and its rider fly to the far east. I've noticed some people suggesting it could very easily still be alive, and would likely be as huge as Vhagar or Balereon by now. How would you guys feel if another dragon showed up in the next two books?
Personally I'd feel like it cheapened the story, and would almost be a retcon. Martin has been writing novellas for awhile, many of which have relevance in the novels (Bloodraven especially), but all those characters - Egg, Dunk, Bloodraven, etc - were revealed in the novels before being fleshed out in novellas. To introduce a dragon in a 2013 novella, then have it play a major role in an upcoming novel would just feel like cheating to me. If this missing dragon was mentioned once or twice in the novels, I'd have no problem with it appearing in TWOW or ADOS.
Personally I'd feel like it cheapened the story, and would almost be a retcon. Martin has been writing novellas for awhile, many of which have relevance in the novels (Bloodraven especially), but all those characters - Egg, Dunk, Bloodraven, etc - were revealed in the novels before being fleshed out in novellas. To introduce a dragon in a 2013 novella, then have it play a major role in an upcoming novel would just feel like cheating to me. If this missing dragon was mentioned once or twice in the novels, I'd have no problem with it appearing in TWOW or ADOS.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I could see the dragon being some kind of mentor to Dany or Drogon or something but I think it would be cheap if it was used in the war.
Basileus777
Member
I completely agree with you on that Phoenix. Revealing it this late through an obscure novella is pretty much the opposite of good foreshadowing.
Yeah, that would suck. That Targaryen-out-of-nowhere was already a cheap trick, I mean ok he was in one of the prophecies, but still the way he was introduced just seemed like GRRM had run out of ideas to advance the plot and just dropped him into the story. This dragon would be even worse.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Aegon was planned from the beginning, and his face being "ruined beyond recognition" was mentioned in nearly every book. Plus of course the prophesy in ACOK, as you said.
Reading through the "So Spake Martin" fan correspondences on Westeros.org, you'll see Martin was refusing to confirm Aegon's death back in 1999. Personally I think the Aegon in ADWD is a fake.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
There are dragons in Asshai and they were mentioned from the start. Bran saw them during one of his crow dreams in AGoT and people talk about rumours of them still being alive in the east, including Dany.
It would be far less unexpected for someone reading the series for the first time than Aegon ever was.
Moff
Member
I agree, a new huge dragon would be cheap, but not as cheap as aegon.
the idea that aegon plays any role in the endgame really makes me throw up a little.
demosthenes
Member
Posted in the thread: pics that make you laugh.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
Happy Holidays ASOIAF GAF!
Have these on the Christmas tree.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I decided to spend an hour of my Christmas/New Years time estimating TWOW's current progress and when it might come out. Lo and behold, a man with too much free time on his hands. God I can't wait to go back to work lol.
http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comm..._been_a_while_since_a_release_date_of/cebq6dd
TLDR: I used a few sources to estimate how many days a month Martin writes, based off his schedule. I then used a blog post he made about ADWD to determine about how many pages per day he writes, during good or decent progress. This resulted in a projection of TWOW being at or around the 775 page mark right now. Martin has about 5 months of free time between now and late May 2014, by which time he'll likely be at the 1055 page count.
Most optimistic: Winter 2014
Most realistic: Summer or fall 2015
http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comm..._been_a_while_since_a_release_date_of/cebq6dd
TLDR: I used a few sources to estimate how many days a month Martin writes, based off his schedule. I then used a blog post he made about ADWD to determine about how many pages per day he writes, during good or decent progress. This resulted in a projection of TWOW being at or around the 775 page mark right now. Martin has about 5 months of free time between now and late May 2014, by which time he'll likely be at the 1055 page count.
Most optimistic: Winter 2014
Most realistic: Summer or fall 2015
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
BELIEVE.
2016 it is then.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
2017? Cool.
ToyMachine228
Member
Haven't heard too many opinions on GRRM's piece in Dangerous Women...What do you guys think? Is it worth buying?
I'm about halfway into it and it's quite good. There's a lot of cool events described, chiefly some details on dragon warfare, and what that meant in the world.
It's completely ridiculous, in both good and bad ways. Very exciting throughout, and it's fun and horrifying to see the Targaryens fight a civil war at the peak of their power. I liked it overall, but it clearly has been edited down too much and loses a lot of intended richness. Probably not as good as, say a Dunk and Egg story.
ToyMachine228
Member
I still don't think it's worth buying a whole book of short stories just for one GRRM tale but...I don't know.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
It has an Abercrombie story too!
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
Well it'll probably get collected with the Dunk & Egg stories... whenever he gets around to writing that other D&T story.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Princess and The Queen is great, but it's written as a history book, not a POV view like ASOIAF or Dunk & Egg. Some found the writing dry, but I liked it. It's basically written from the perspective of a cantankerous maester, fun stuff.
Also, it really shows how horrific dragons were, in warfare and to common people.
From what I understand, the full version will be in the GRRMarillion, not the world book. The world book is Elio & Linda's thing, and Martin contributed a bunch of stuff as well; it's written from the perspective of a group of maesters. GRRMarrillion sounds like it'll be Martin's solo "fake history" tome, released after all the books are completed (and thus will feature details on post-series events).
Also, it really shows how horrific dragons were, in warfare and to common people.
From what I understand, the full version will be in the GRRMarillion, not the world book. The world book is Elio & Linda's thing, and Martin contributed a bunch of stuff as well; it's written from the perspective of a group of maesters. GRRMarrillion sounds like it'll be Martin's solo "fake history" tome, released after all the books are completed (and thus will feature details on post-series events).
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