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[Basileus777]

I surely can't judge because writing is something that seems hard for me outside of school stuff, but what the hell is it with fantasy novels that's so damn time-consuming? The books are long but I feel like they're not that long or complicated. I'm sure GRRM has his reasons and power to him since it's his world but still.

It's really just epic fantasy, and it's not surprising that series that run for millions of words get boggled down after years and years of writing. There aren't even many other genres where 400k+ word books are even published, let alone a series of books that long.

 

[Lirlond]

And yet we read them in a week

 

[CitizenVectron]

I surely can't judge because writing is something that seems hard for me outside of school stuff, but what the hell is it with fantasy novels that's so damn time-consuming? The books are long but I feel like they're not that long or complicated. I'm sure GRRM has his reasons and power to him since it's his world but still.

Every author is different, and GRRM is one of the slowest. Someone like Brandon Sanderson can pump out two 1,200-page epic fantasy novels per year when he works at it. If I remember correctly, does GRRM do it all by hand, or on some sort of really old computer or something? I remember thinking to myself that part of his problem is how he writes. He's also too concerned about some minor details and spends forever trying to fix them (well if this character left on the 4th then they would arrive on the 7th...but I need them there on the 6th! Hmm, better rewrite 5 other character's chapters to make it work), but then glosses over other things, like the description of people's eye colours which drives some fans crazy.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Every author is different, and GRRM is one of the slowest. Someone like Brandon Sanderson can pump out two 1,200-page epic fantasy novels per year when he works at it. If I remember correctly, does GRRM do it all by hand, or on some sort of really old computer or something? I remember thinking to myself that part of his problem is how he writes. He's also too concerned about some minor details and spends forever trying to fix them (well if this character left on the 4th then they would arrive on the 7th...but I need them there on the 6th! Hmm, better rewrite 5 other character's chapters to make it work), but then glosses over other things, like the description of people's eye colours which drives some fans crazy.

He uses WordStar 4.0 on an MS DOS computer. That particular WordStar program requires you to use code in order to type in italics.

I've posted it before, but here are my estimates:
http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comm..._been_a_while_since_a_release_date_of/cebq6dd

The Mereenese Knot is solved, he's well past the "5 year gap" issue...I can't help but think his progress will increase. Barring some unexpected, new complication of course (which could happen, given that he doesn't outline before writing) I think he's in a far better place now than he's been since 2000.

 

[Victory Red]

He needs to pull a "peter jackson" and write the last 2 books simultaneously.

Spoiler

not gonna happen

 

[Jayof9s]

Every author is different, and GRRM is one of the slowest. Someone like Brandon Sanderson can pump out two 1,200-page epic fantasy novels per year when he works at it. If I remember correctly, does GRRM do it all by hand, or on some sort of really old computer or something? I remember thinking to myself that part of his problem is how he writes. He's also too concerned about some minor details and spends forever trying to fix them (well if this character left on the 4th then they would arrive on the 7th...but I need them there on the 6th! Hmm, better rewrite 5 other character's chapters to make it work), but then glosses over other things, like the description of people's eye colours which drives some fans crazy.

It all depends, the first few books came out quickly. GOT to COK was 2.5 years and COK to SOS was less than 2 years.

I have a feeling part of it comes from how much he wants to write it / how many issues he is running into with the story-line. COK to SOS kind of proves he can pump out a book quickly if things all go smoothly. And SOS was a decent bit bigger than all the books except DWD (~1050 for DWD, ~990 for SOS and then 700-750 for the rest.)

 

[aFIGurANT]

Every author is different, and GRRM is one of the slowest. Someone like Brandon Sanderson can pump out two 1,200-page epic fantasy novels per year when he works at it.

Yeah I guess it comes down to how the author chooses to maintain his reputation/legacy. At this point GRRM is set for life so I can see how just managing to tap out the last two books at some point before "retirement" a decade down the line is all he's shooting for. It's definitely frustrating for fans but thank god there are lots of books out there to fill the gaps. I quite enjoyed Sanderson's Way of Kings along those lines.

 

[ToyMachine228]

Random question that came to my mind today...Is it ever inferred that Tywin knew about the plot to poison Joffrey? Or does he ever express an opinion on Joffrey's death after it happens?

 

[DrForester]

I don't remember it ever being implied that he knew anything about it.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I doubt Tywin shed a tear over Joffrey's death, but he wasn't involved. Really makes me wonder about what might have happened if Tywin lived a bit longer. I can't help but think he'd take a more active role in ensuring Tommen didn't grow into a fool king. He planned on marrying Cersei off, and likely getting her the hell out of King's Landing.

It would have been interesting to see what Tywin would have done upon hearing "Aegon" Targaryen and Jon Connington were in Westeros.

 

[A Human Becoming]

If he had known it would have been stopped. Joffrey might have disrespected him but Tywin wouldn't allow him to be killed over that. Joffrey would remain his puppet as long as Cersei was present.

 

[Dresden]

He would've taken it as an affront to Lannister pride, no matter what he personally thought of the boy.

If Tywin hadn't been kuffled by Tyrion, Varys would have killed him soon anyways - gotta clear the way for Fakegon.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Random question that came to my mind today...Is it ever inferred that Tywin knew about the plot to poison Joffrey? Or does he ever express an opinion on Joffrey's death after it happens?

Ironically, there's an interesting theory that Tywin himself was poisoned and was slowly dying.

Tywin Lannister: Dead Man Shitting

 

[ZeroRay]

So I've finished reading Princess and the Queen

Spoiler

Got kinda overwhelming with all these Targaryen names being introduced so quickly, but it managed to become an enthralling tale. The utter destruction rained upon the Targaryen family and especially the dragons was truly something to behold: Especially the riot in King's Landing that ended the lives of five dragons.

 

[DrForester]

I doubt Tywin shed a tear over Joffrey's death, but he wasn't involved. Really makes me wonder about what might have happened if Tywin lived a bit longer. I can't help but think he'd take a more active role in ensuring Tommen didn't grow into a fool king. He planned on marrying Cersei off, and likely getting her the hell out of King's Landing.

Oh certainly he would have had a bigger role in Tommen's upbringing. Privately he probably was happy for Jeoffrey's death. It let him get rid of Tyrion, and he probably knew Jeoffrey was heading down a road to ruin anyways and would take the Lannister name down with him.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I wonder if Tommen will quickly lose the thrown with only Jamie and Cersei truly looking out for him. Everyone else seem only interested in using him.

Is it easier to manipulate him or kick him off all together?

 

[badcrumble]

I wonder if Tommen will quickly lose the thrown with only Jamie and Cersei truly looking out for him. Everyone else seem only interested in using him.

Is it easier to manipulate him or kick him off all together?

If Tommen died, the kingdom would totally fucking fall to pieces because there would be no agreed-upon heir apparent and his supposed legitimacy is the one thing keeping several of the great Houses from tearing each other to pieces.

Therefore, Tommen will die, because there are several players whose interests are served by inducing precisely that sort of chaos at the right time. Depending on the timing, it could cause a wholly-illegitimate succession war between Cersei (mother of the king and queen regent), Margaery (wife of the king and queen of the land), and the Dornish (under whose laws Myrcella is the rightful successor). Cersei/Margaery/Myrcella would be your Three Queens right there, and would conveniently tie up the South in bloodshed, leaving the North ripe to be more easily contested.

 

[El Daniel]

If Tommen died, the kingdom would totally fucking fall to pieces because there would be no agreed-upon heir apparent and his supposed legitimacy is the one thing keeping several of the great Houses from tearing each other to pieces.

Therefore, Tommen will die, because there are several players whose interests are served by inducing precisely that sort of chaos at the right time. Depending on the timing, it could cause a wholly-illegitimate succession war between Cersei (mother of the king and queen regent), Margaery (wife of the king and queen of the land), and the Dornish (under whose laws Myrcella is the rightful successor). Cersei/Margaery/Myrcella would be your Three Queens right there, and would conveniently tie up the South in bloodshed, leaving the North ripe to be more easily contested.

Stannis would be rightful king by law. (he already is, but considering that Tommen is a trueborn child.) But Stannis is named traitor so I think he would get passed over. And then we get... ehm... No idea.

Since Viserys was exiled Robert was the rigthtful king even trough the Targaryen bloodline. So Joffrey was the first true Usurper!

 

[dabig2]

Stannis would be rightful king by law. (he already is, but considering that Tommen is a trueborn child.) But Stannis is named traitor so I think he would get passed over. And then we get... ehm... No idea.

Since Viserys was exiled Robert was the rigthtful king even trough the Targaryen bloodline. So Joffrey was the first true Usurper!

Shireen! In my heart of hearts I actually kind of hope Shireen emerges as the dark horse for the throne. Poor girl. And then she can marry Rickon/Bran to unite the Stag and the Wolf as originally intended.

Of course we all know she's probably going to die horribly. Eaten alive by Patchface from the feet up or something like it.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

Shireen! In my heart of hearts I actually kind of hope Shireen emerges as the dark horse for the throne. Poor girl. And then she can marry Rickon/Bran to unite the Stag and the Wolf as originally intended.

Of course we all know she's probably going to die horribly. Eaten alive by Patchface from the feet up or something like it.

Or probably her greyscale will kill her. Val seems to imply that her's is dormant

 

[Jayof9s]

Eaten alive by Patchface from the feet up or something like it.

I'm curious to see what comes of Patchface after the line from Melisandre "That creature is dangerous. Many a time I have glimpsed him in my flames. Sometimes there are skulls about him, and his lips are red with blood."

 

[PhoenixDark]

If Tommen died, the kingdom would totally fucking fall to pieces because there would be no agreed-upon heir apparent and his supposed legitimacy is the one thing keeping several of the great Houses from tearing each other to pieces.

Therefore, Tommen will die, because there are several players whose interests are served by inducing precisely that sort of chaos at the right time. Depending on the timing, it could cause a wholly-illegitimate succession war between Cersei (mother of the king and queen regent), Margaery (wife of the king and queen of the land), and the Dornish (under whose laws Myrcella is the rightful successor). Cersei/Margaery/Myrcella would be your Three Queens right there, and would conveniently tie up the South in bloodshed, leaving the North ripe to be more easily contested.

Actually Myrcella will become queen since daughters inherit before uncles. Also the prophesy Cersei obsesses over said all three of her children will wear crowns. I think Tommen will die in TWOW although I don't really have a guess on how it'll happen. Poisoned by a Sand Snake, who knows.

Is Myrcella still in Dorne? I can't remember whether she heads back to KL with Nymeria Sand. I also expect her to die in the book, shortly after beig crowned.

Is her money "Aegon" will be king before the end of TWOW. All the pieces are in place for a quick collapse of Lannister power.

 

[Fuzzy]

Actually Myrcella will become queen since daughters inherit before uncles. Also the prophesy Cersei obsesses over said all three of her children will wear crowns. I think Tommen will die in TWOW although I don't really have a guess on how it'll happen. Poisoned by a Sand Snake, who knows.

Ser Pounce will rip out his throat as he sleeps.

 

[endre]

So I've finished reading Princess and the Queen

Spoiler

Got kinda overwhelming with all these Targaryen names being introduced so quickly, but it managed to become an enthralling tale. The utter destruction rained upon the Targaryen family and especially the dragons was truly something to behold: Especially the riot in King's Landing that ended the lives of five dragons.

That is quite interesting. Please do tell more. Send a pm or spoiler tag it.

 

[ZeroRay]

That is quite interesting. Please do tell more. Send a pm or spoiler tag it.

Major spoilers for The Princess and the Queen follow:

Spoiler

Basically since both sides had dragons, you had a lot of dragon on dragon action taking place. This was definitely something not seen in the series before. It was remarkable how capable dragons actually were in the air when going against their own kind.

Quite a few dragons (along with their riders - most of whom were Targs) died in these battles but the biggest loss took place during the riots in King's Landing. Essentially, Rhaenyra and the Blacks took control of the city from Aegon and the Greens by leading Aeomond, Aegon's brother away from the city - including his dragon. This gave Rhaenyra an opportunity to simply fly into King's Landing and take control with her dragons paralyzing most of the city in fear as well as capitalizing on a betrayal from the gold cloaks.

As the war went on, the townsfolk grew more and more anxious with prophets and self-proclaimed kings popping up and causing even more of a stir. This all came to a head when one prophet called for the end of all dragons in order to cleanse King's Landing, drawing a mob of tens of thousands to storm the Dragon Pit. As all the dragons were chained, they were vulnerable to the angry mob descending on them like rats to a bear. 4 of the dragons (3 of which belonging to the Blacks, 1 to the greens) died inside. Along with the Queen's dragon and her son as they flew down into the commotion.

Curiously, the Queen's dragon never took to the air and was only attacking people physically. If she stayed in the air and rained fire down, she could have easily done enough damage to dissipate the mob.

 

[endre]

Thanks. Very interesting, you are almost making me get this book...

 

[PhoenixDark]

Thanks. Very interesting, you are almost making me get this book...

If you don't want to purchase the book I'd recommend heading to a book store and reading it. It's worth it, trust us.

One thing that becomes clear is that the dragons are weapons of mass destruction, on a truly horrifying scale. And while they can be killed by men, ultimately the only way to truly counter them with any certainly is with dragons of your own.

It has really made me rethink Dany, If she keeps her dragons, it'll be nigh impossible for her to lose. Also another thing: even if she keeps her dragons initially, she cannot bind to them all - a person can only bind one dragon. In Dany's case it's Drogon, who she clearly binds at the end of ADWD. That means she needs two dragon riders, two people she can trust with life and death.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Thoughts on the two other dragon riders?

Would Tyrion be too obvious a prediction?

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

I got dibs on Tyrion riding a dragon. If Tyrion manages to impress/persuade Dany which he usually does. He was reminiscing about it when he was young and having a dragon of his own, seems like a tiny foreshadowing

As for the other one, hopefully not Euron or

Spoiler

Blackfyre

Aegon or Daario but Jon?

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

It's weird but I could see Sansa somehow working her way into Dany's circle. I know she's so young but it would be a pretty awesome power play.

 

[Moff]

not really sure I dig the idea of all those nice, grey, realistic characters like tyrion or jon going woohooo dragon riding in an "epic" battle at the end

 

[Baraka in the White House]

not really sure I dig the idea of all those nice, grey, realistic characters like tyrion or jon going woohooo dragon riding in an "epic" battle at the end

Don't worry, I'm sure Gurm won't either.

 

[Pkaz01]

not really sure I dig the idea of all those nice, grey, realistic characters like tyrion or jon going woohooo dragon riding in an "epic" battle at the end

no way all three of those dragons survive the series anyway I have a feeling one of them will be taken out in the first half of that last book.

 

[Dresden]

Can't see any of the dragons surviving by the end, tbh.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

One way or the other someone has to mount one of Dany's drakes. Worst case scenario Rhaegal and Viserion dies at or before reaching Westeros

It would be quite intriguing to see Euron, Daario and Tyrion interactions in TWOW, since all three are heading for Dany/Mereen. I don't think Vicky will last long

 

[DKehoe]

Wow, just finished Dance With Dragons. So good to not have to worry about spoilers anymore.

All throughout the book I had been wondering "what's Varys up to?" then that ending happened. The wait for the next one is going to be terrible. I can't even imagine having to wait six years for this one. Those that did have my sympathy.

 

[Laurentius]

Wow, just finished Dance With Dragons. So good to not have to worry about spoilers anymore.

All throughout the book I had been wondering "what's Varys up to?" then that ending happened. The wait for the next one is going to be terrible. I can't even imagine having to wait six years for this one. Those that did have my sympathy.

I felt bad for Kevan. Varys basically admitted he was killing him because he was too competent.

 

[apana]

If it wasn't for George's age and health I really wouldn't mind this series going on for many more books. I would totally be cool with nine books, that would be awesome. There are so many storylines that you realize even with two books it won't be so easy to wrap them up, even if storylines converge. He really needs to be laser focused on advancing the plot. Either way I hope the television show has a different ending than the books. There is no way George is going to get to seven books in time for the last season of the show and I think the show writers doing their own endings is better than ending the story before George. That way we can also compare and contrast endings. I would like to see one ending involving politics and the other involving fantasy. Or one ending where the characters fail and the other where they succeed in pushing back the white walkers.

 

[PhoenixDark]

It's weird but I could see Sansa somehow working her way into Dany's circle. I know she's so young but it would be a pretty awesome power play.

Honestly I think she'll be involved with Aegon in some way.

My late night nerd wishes: http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comm...ll_whats_your_worst_case_scenariobest/cennl1h

 

[A Human Becoming]

Honestly I think she'll be involved with Aegon in some way.

My late night nerd wishes: http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comm...ll_whats_your_worst_case_scenariobest/cennl1h

Jon dying is my late night nerd nightmare.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Jon dying is my late night nerd nightmare.

I think he'll be back in some form, but I'd bet he'll be dead for most of TWOW. And when he comes back, he'll be different.

 

[Dysun]

"Kill the boy and let the man be born"

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Honestly I think she'll be involved with Aegon in some way.

My late night nerd wishes: http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comm...ll_whats_your_worst_case_scenariobest/cennl1h

I could see that too. I highly doubt she'll end up staying in the Vale much longer either way.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I was thinking...do you guys think LF believes Varys is behind Dany? I would assume LF knows about her considering even the small council in King's Landing knows she lives, has dragons, and is in Mereen. If he thinks Dany is Varys' end game and hears the rumors of her death, it would make sense for him to throw his full support behind Aegon. Offering Lyanna Stark's niece to Rhaegar's (alleged) son would be perfect.

And the minute LF leaves the Vale, Varys will be able to pounce on him. Assuming he wants to, of course.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

I could see that too. I highly doubt she'll end up staying in the Vale much longer either way.

Not unless Littlefinger kills her

Question:

So ADWD was split in two books, was the second part of ADWD released altogether on the same date with the first?

 

[Moff]

Not unless Littlefinger kills her

Question:

So ADWD was split in two books, was the second part of ADWD released altogether on the same date with the first?

as far as i know, what GRRM thought to be the fourth book became AFFC and ADWD

so there are not really two parts of ADWD, at least in english.
in other languages, like german, all books are split in two.

 

[Steelyuhas]

as far as i know, what GRRM thought to be the fourth book became AFFC and ADWD

so there are not really two parts of ADWD, at least in english.
in other languages, like german, all books are split in two.

Storm and Dance have a paperback split in the UK, no?

Is that what cpt underpants is asking about?

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

Storm and Dance have a paperback split in the UK, no?

Is that what cpt underpants is asking about?

Yep, both Storm and Dance was split in two

Were the second parts release at the same date as the firsts?

 

[ZeroRay]

It was a full hardcover on its initial release. The international paperbacks are split in two I believe.

 

[Fuzzy]

Yep, both Storm and Dance was split in two

Were the second parts release at the same date as the firsts?

Yes. When the paperback was released overseas both halves were released on the same day.