ADWD (I'll spoiler tag so those who didn't read the TWOW sample don't know who I'm referring to):
He is Kevan Lannister's father-in-law. Despite being a dumbass he makes impressive upward mobility throughout the series, becoming Hand in AFFC. Later he becomes Master of Coin. In the ADWD epilogue Kevan convinces him to go to Braavos on a diplomatic mission to make amends for Cersei's stupidity with the Iron Bank.
Is he Arya's target? Should be interesting to see how the Iron Bank responds when they meet him, considering they have thrown in with Stannis.
Thanks!
I clearly need to reread ADWD, it's been a while since I read it on hardcover when it first came out but I don't remember that part at all.
I reviewed the /reddit prediction, the guy nailed it 8+ months ago, pretty impressive.
In some ways the theories and predictions are as fun as the books.
Yeah. I mean I can understand it making people uncomfortable obviously. But it's not like he just randomly tossed it in to get his rocks off. It's perfectly consistent with the world he has created.
This is book is going to be filled with so much content that I wouldn't worry about reading these few sample chapters. I'm sure GRRM is not crazy enough to release anything considered "big" in terms of plot before the book was released.
Well, this is the best chapter so far, so I guess it might *spoil* the others, but it has nothing to do with the other chapters and doesn't reference them at all, so no.
You won't read it and it will drive you insane to see us discuss it, mwahahahaha!
Seriously? It's the exact language you'd hear in a "common" district full of degradation, whether in a medieval or English Renaissance setting. In fact the comments about mummers focusing on pleasing "the pit," ie the filthy commoners in attendance, is a direct reference to the crowds that once attended similar plays in poor districts of Rome or London.
It is the profileration of the show. People think Dany = Emilia Clarke while they see Maisie Williams as Arya. They forget Dany is a lot younger in the books.
Well, I guess releasing sample chapters doesn't delay him at all, and I'd rather have a steady stream of tidbits to read while we wait rather than absolutely nothing.
Arya doesn't get raped anyway, unlike Dany. She gets groped, but it serves the story and there's nothing "sexy" or titillating anywhere in that chapter. Also, it's a bit odd to be offended by the word "titties" and then ignore the fact that she stabbed a man in the groin and then cut his throat? Not that I didn't cheer like hell when it happened, but really, harping out about "titties" and calling GRRM "disgusting" because lowborn mummers use that word? Give me a break.
Seriously? It's the exact language you'd hear in a "common" district full of degradation, whether in a medieval or English Renaissance setting. In fact the comments about mummers focusing on pleasing "the pit," ie the filthy commoners in attendance, is a direct reference to the crowds that once attended similar plays in poor districts of Rome or London.
Ignoring that, its a pretty bad chapter, GURM still takes forever for people to move from point A to point B and then the payoff is something that doesn't really serve the larger narrative.
I'm pretty sure there's been way more explicit sexual language than that directed at Arya as far back as book 2. The number of times the word "rape" is written there is a little jarring, but it fits pretty well with how I imagine Arya's internal monologue would actually sound if she had to go act out a role like that.
Also this strikes me as the funniest chapter I've read from the series in a while. The reveal of the self-referential play and the conversation about "siggles" were great.
I know, please, I realized I had overreacted when I read the chapter again. I didn't mean to make a fuss out of it and we've certainly seen much worse in the books.
Jeez, do it like Real with La Liga and let it go already.
The chapter's pacing is flawless. The perfect balance of setup, description, tension, and payoff. What are you on about? This is honestly GRRM at his best.
and then the payoff is something that doesn't really serve the larger narrative.
I'm pretty sure there's been way more explicit sexual language than that directed at Arya as far back as book 2. The number of times the word "rape" is written there is a little jarring, but it fits pretty well with how I imagine Arya's internal monologue would actually sound if she had to go act out a role like that.
Also this strikes me as the funniest chapter I've read from the series in a while. The reveal of the self-referential play and the conversation about "siggles" were great.
Arya doesn't get raped anyway, unlike Dany. She gets groped, but it serves the story and there's nothing "sexy" or titillating anywhere in that chapter. Also, it's a bit odd to be offended by the word "titties" and then ignore the fact that she stabbed a man in the groin and then cut his throat? Not that I didn't cheer like hell when it happened, but really, harping out about "titties" and calling GRRM "disgusting" because lowborn mummers use that word? Give me a break.
titties (n.)
1746, tetties (plural), a nursery or dialect diminutive variant of teats (see teat).
Margery. Come, be quite;--be quite, es zey, a grabbling o' wone's Tetties.---Es wont ha' ma Tetties a grabbled zo ; ner es wont be mullad and foulad.---Stand azide; come, gi' o'er. ["Exmoor Courtship, or, A Suitoring Discourse, in the Devonshire Dialect and Mode, near the forest of Exmoor," 1746]
So yeah, it is out of place. He used teats in all the other books, so it's weird he used this here. Then again, its not edited or at least final yet, so it probably won't be in the print
I doubt "titties" will be in the final version but to be fair this wouldn't be the first word used in ASOIAF that wasn't around in medieval times. And to be honest I could buy "titties" for a couple reasons. First Martin's world mixes a variety of eras. Much of Westeros looks like a medieval era whereas Oldtown and Essos is like Renaissance Europe.
I can buy/accept vulgarity in the gutters of Essos or even King's Landing having phrases for breasts beyond "teats" or "bosoms."
Finally on rape and pedophilia: again, our views on the difference between children and adults were seen different in medieval times, and even 300 years ago. Clearly some people view Martin as some creep who gets off on the sexual content, specifically with respect to children. I think that's unfair given the story he's writing. He's not sitting around thinking "how can I give Maise Williams a sexual scene *licks lips*"
How so? You think that word was invented in the 20th century? e_e
Wow. Well at least I know you're kind of alone in this.
The chapter's pacing is flawless. The perfect balance of setup, description, tension, and payoff. What are you on about? This is honestly GRRM at his best.
And you know this because you read the whole book and you know exactly what happens after?
The impact it has on Harys Swyft's trip to Bravos and its consequences, Arya's character development and story, and so forth?
Yeah, didn't think so. But don't let that stop you from flatly declaring that it "doesn't serve the larger narrative", mind you.
Yeah, it's like they forgot about her interactions with Rorge and Biter. And yes I LOLed at "siggles" too.
The last two books have been boring travelogues where no one gets anywhere or only minor things happen. This chapter was more of the same. I don't see how anyone can really argue otherwise.
I mean I guess since this is cutting room material from A Feast for Filler part 2 which could've stood to have more cut already I guess it isn't surprising.
And yes I should've commented on
an 11 year old girl severing the artery of a grown man but I don't even know if its worth commenting on the amount of suspension of disbelief Arya's story line needs at this point. Her arc is definitely the one most messed up by the lack of time jump. Its like Luke Skywalker magically changing into a Jedi between Empire and Return of the Jedi. It doesn't feel earned at all.
I doubt "titties" will be in the final version but to be fair this wouldn't be the first word used in ASOIAF that wasn't around in medieval times. And to be honest I could buy "titties" for a couple reasons. First Martin's world mixes a variety of eras. Much of Westeros looks like a medieval era whereas Oldtown and Essos is like Renaissance Europe.
I can buy/accept vulgarity in the gutters of Essos or even King's Landing having phrases for breasts beyond "teats" or "bosoms."
Finally on rape and pedophilia: again, our views on the difference between children and adults were seen different in medieval times, and even 300 years ago. Clearly some people view Martin as some creep who gets off on the sexual content, specifically with respect to children. I think that's unfair given the story he's writing. He's not sitting around thinking "how can I give Maise Williams a sexual scene *licks lips*"
Why not? Its not like GURM has an editor he answers to anymore. If he wants to do away with fat pink masts and myrish swamps and jump straight to titties, who is to stop him?
The upload of the new sample chapter from THE WINDS OF WINTER created so much traffic to my website and blog that the servers crashed. This is the first time I've been able to get up myself all day.
Anyway, it seems to be easing off some. And we are looking at ways to increase capacity.
The "reviews" of the chapter have been amazingly enthusiastic as well. Thanks. I am pleased that so many of you -- thousands and maybe tens of thousands, it would seem -- enjoyed "Mercy" so much.
I mentioned that this chapter had quite a history. It's true. The first draft was written more than a decade ago. Originally, it was intended to be the opening Arya chapter after the infamous "five year gap," her first appearance in A DANCE WITH DRAGONS as initially conceived. Then it was supposed to be a part of A FEAST FOR CROWS, after I abandoned the five year gap and split the books. Then it was going to be the concluding Arya chapter in A DANCE WITH DRAGONS. But it seemed more like an opening chapter than a closing one, so shortly before ADWD was published my editor and I agreed to remove it from DANCE and shift it over into WINDS. Of course, it has been revised, tightened, polished, and tweaked at every step of the way, so the version on my website has some significant differences from the "five year gap" version." GRRM
I think grrm kind of destroyed any momentum this "arc" could have had dividing it in three books...this feels like last part of AFFC material, having it at the beginning (?) of Winds seems too little too late.
But I'll take it, it's definitely the best chapter released so far. My worries are elsewhere, in a distant filler land to the east
Ignoring that, its a pretty bad chapter, GURM still takes forever for people to move from point A to point B and then the payoff is something that doesn't really serve the larger narrative.
How so? It's a huge turning point for this character and the payoff is both satisfying and makes the reader crave more. It shows the specific development of their personality and overall arc. I think it's an amazing chapter, and I'm so glad he gave us this sneak peek.
And, for the record, getting from point A to point B isn't necessarily a bad thing. Descriptions and specific details help to flesh out the world and bring the characters to life.
If we're talking about anachronistic phrases and words, Rowan and the spear wives in ADWD saying "let's be about it" to Theon felt much more out of place than "titties".
And I really, really don't see how you get to make that claim. It's actually very mind-boggling.
I mean I guess since this is cutting room material from A Feast for Filler part 2 which could've stood to have more cut already I guess it isn't surprising.
And yes I should've commented on
an 11 year old girl severing the artery of a grown man but I don't even know if its worth commenting on the amount of suspension of disbelief Arya's story line needs at this point. Her arc is definitely the one most messed up by the lack of time jump. Its like Luke Skywalker magically changing into a Jedi between Empire and Return of the Jedi. It doesn't feel earned at all.
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Whaaaaat? Maybe you were too busy whining about "boring travelogues" to actually
read what was happening? Arya's arc didn't jump from scared little girl to pro killer in one go. You actually see her progression very clearly. I have honestly no idea what you're on about. I feel like I'm in some bizarro opposite land right now.
Why not? Its not like GURM has an editor he answers to anymore. If he wants to do away with fat pink masts and myrish swamps and jump straight to titties, who is to stop him?
How so? It's a huge turning point for this character and the payoff is both satisfying and makes the reader crave more. It shows the specific development of their personality and overall arc. I think it's an amazing chapter, and I'm so glad he gave us this sneak peek.
And, for the record, getting from point A to point B isn't necessarily a bad thing. Descriptions and specific details help to flesh out the world and bring the characters to life.
Agreed on all counts. And while I think it's true that GRRM sometimes like to elaborate a bit too long on the world-building aspect, I found this chapter to have just the perfect amount. It was a great balance of world building, character development, plot build-up and payoff. GRRM at his best, honestly. While I still enjoyed the previous preview chapters, they were almost underwhelming compared to this one.
The upload of the new sample chapter from THE WINDS OF WINTER created so much traffic to my website and blog that the servers crashed. This is the first time I've been able to get up myself all day.
Anyway, it seems to be easing off some. And we are looking at ways to increase capacity.
The "reviews" of the chapter have been amazingly enthusiastic as well. Thanks. I am pleased that so many of you -- thousands and maybe tens of thousands, it would seem -- enjoyed "Mercy" so much.
I mentioned that this chapter had quite a history. It's true. The first draft was written more than a decade ago. Originally, it was intended to be the opening Arya chapter after the infamous "five year gap," her first appearance in A DANCE WITH DRAGONS as initially conceived. Then it was supposed to be a part of A FEAST FOR CROWS, after I abandoned the five year gap and split the books. Then it was going to be the concluding Arya chapter in A DANCE WITH DRAGONS. But it seemed more like an opening chapter than a closing one, so shortly before ADWD was published my editor and I agreed to remove it from DANCE and shift it over into WINDS. Of course, it has been revised, tightened, polished, and tweaked at every step of the way, so the version on my website has some significant differences from the "five year gap" version." GRRM
