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[Reyne]

do we have any idea when this excerpt was actually written? might not make much sense trying to fit it into the timeline before it has been edited.

According to Gurm, it began over ten years ago, and has since been rewritten into new timelines, moved to later books and so fort.

Spoiler

To be honest, I don't really see the problem. Did anyone expect Cersei to lose the trial? She has a freaking undead champion. Kevan just died, so it wouldn't do to have Cersei be condemned and possibly have someone competent rule Kings Landing. Varys would be so disappointed if Cersei didn't keep ruling.

 

[Basileus777]

Spoiler

There's no way Swyft went to the docks to board a ship seconds after talking to Kevan. Considering Cersei's trial was five days away on the night of Kevan's death, it's very likely Swyft left after the trial.

That's the likely answer, though it wouldn't be the first time GRRM fudged continuity/traveling time.

 

[Brakke]

Heard an interview with Seth Green saying GRR Martin is appearing on Robot Chicken this season as a voice/as-himself "character".

HEY GRR KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE PRIZE.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Spoiler

The Arya chapter has even more punch when you look up Raff and realize his final words are the same as Lommy Greenhands.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

Spoiler

The Arya chapter has even more punch when you look up Raff and realize his final words are the same as Lommy Greenhands.

Yeah, Arya practically made him say it

 

[RedShift]

Heard an interview with Seth Green saying GRR Martin is appearing on Robot Chicken this season as a voice/as-himself "character".

HEY GRR KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE PRIZE.

Didn't he turn down cameoing in this season of GoT to work on TWOW? Odd that he'd be too busy for that but not for Robot Chicken. Though I suppose the latter is only voice work.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

And he doesn't need to fly to Croatia...?

 

[Wh0 N0se]

Or perhaps he's just THAT far ahead in the book that he feels he can do things like this now!

*Hopes*

 

[Herr K]

Or perhaps he's just THAT far ahead in the book that he feels he can do things like this now!

*Hopes*

hahahahahahahahaha ha a... ((((((

 

[Brakke]

Prints in the shop tomorrow.

There's like 30of them!

 

[A Human Becoming]

There's like 60 of them!

Except for the Robb Wolfhead and the White Walker, the faces are terrible.

 

[Wh0 N0se]

So, I was thinking, we've never seen Skagos have we?

I know there's rumours that they're cannibals and things like that but if no one has been there recently then we have no real idea what is actually there.

It could be one of those things where the people there themselves put out the rumours to keep other people away.

So, do we actually expect there to be cannibals there? Why would Osha go there unless she actually knew what was there, so stretching this a bit, in theory, Skagos could hold a bunch of Wildlings who have managed to climb the wall and find somewhere to live.

I'm clutching at straws a bit but I just don't get why Osha would go to Skagos unless she knew something about it that we don't. Anyone got any thoughts on this?

 

[butzopower]

Maybe the cannibals on Skagos are the Children of the Forest. Can't wait for GRRM's description of Rickon noodle stew.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Doesn't Davos seeing the crashed ship on Skagos hint that there's a possibility that Osha and Rickon were headed somewhere else and crashed there instead?

That's interesting though, what would be the reason to intentionally to go Skagos? I don't think we as the reader knows that at this point.

 

[ZeroRay]

Or perhaps he's just THAT far ahead in the book that he feels he can do things like this now!

*Hopes*

He's probably further in than you think, but less than you hope.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Doesn't Davos seeing the crashed ship on Skagos hint that there's a possibility that Osha and Rickon were headed somewhere else and crashed there instead?

That's interesting though, what would be the reason to intentionally to go Skagos? I don't think we as the reader knows that at this point.

Actually Sam sees the crashed ship, meaning it could actually be Davos' ship, or Osha/Rickon. Should be interesting. The interesting thing to me is that despite the rumors of cannibalism, Skagos has a popular port. That makes me think either the cannibalism rumors are old practices that no longer happen, or it's a minor thing on the island; maybe some folks deeper on Skagos do it, but the Skagosi who run the ports are normal.

Osha either has family there or knows Rickon would be welcome. Honestly it seems like a Stark and his big ass direwolf would be worshiped anywhere in the deep north, from the clans to the Skagosi. And who knows, maybe his grandmother was Skagosi.

 

[TCRS]

I hope GRRM will concentrate more on Highgarden in TWOW. It's probably the most neglected kingdom despite being the second largest and being basically Westeros' farm. Sure there is Margery and Loras, but that's King's Landing politics. I want to know more about Highgarden and its relationships with the other kingdoms and internal stuff.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I hope GRRM will concentrate more on Highgarden in TWOW. It's probably the most neglected kingdom despite being the second largest and being basically Westeros' farm. Sure there is Margery and Loras, but that's King's Landing politics. I want to know more about Highgarden and its relationships with the other kingdoms and internal stuff.

Between the Ironborn claiming the Shield Islands and

Spoiler

High Garden's retaliation of the Golden Company's attack on Storm's End

, they should get at least a bit more time.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Martin said we'll see more of the Tyrells in the upcoming books, I hope we see Highgarden. But how will we see it?

-Prologue: perhaps Euron's forces arrive there and we'll see it from a Maester's perspective
-Connington: maybe Aegon will send him further south to cut the head off the rose, so to speak
-Dany: maybe she'll land in the Reach (trollolol)

Dunno...

 

[FootballFan]

Actually Sam sees the crashed ship, meaning it could actually be Davos' ship, or Osha/Rickon. Should be interesting. The interesting thing to me is that despite the rumors of cannibalism, Skagos has a popular port. That makes me think either the cannibalism rumors are old practices that no longer happen, or it's a minor thing on the island; maybe some folks deeper on Skagos do it, but the Skagosi who run the ports are normal.

Osha either has family there or knows Rickon would be welcome. Honestly it seems like a Stark and his big ass direwolf would be worshiped anywhere in the deep north, from the clans to the Skagosi. And who knows, maybe his grandmother was Skagosi.

That is also one interpretation I subscribe to. Skagos is full of 'normal people', but there may be natives/tribes present that practice cannibalism.

As for Ned being the son of a Skagosi mother...why not, it's all clear now. Rickon went to his grandma's house. They will rally behind the one true King of Winter. Rickon 'The Cruel' Stark.

 

[KingHenrik30]

are there any good artist's renditions of the bridge of boats?

 

[A Human Becoming]

Martin said we'll see more of the Tyrells in the upcoming books, I hope we see Highgarden. But how will we see it?

-Prologue: perhaps Euron's forces arrive there and we'll see it from a Maester's perspective
-Connington: maybe Aegon will send him further south to cut the head off the rose, so to speak
-Dany: maybe she'll land in the Reach (trollolol)

Dunno...

Do the Tyrells still have a huge army? I forget how many they brought to defeat Stannis at King's Landing. It was a mix of them and Tywin's force.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Do the Tyrells still have a huge army? I forget how many they brought to defeat Stannis at King's Landing. It was a mix of them and Tywin's force.

That and they took heavy losses storming Dragonstone.

They could be spread pretty thin.

 

[cashman]

Guess we know why we got that Arya sample chapter released :/

 

[PhoenixDark]

Do the Tyrells still have a huge army? I forget how many they brought to defeat Stannis at King's Landing. It was a mix of them and Tywin's force.

They have two armies in King's Landing, one led by Mace and the larger by Randyl. Garlan also has an even larger force in the Reach, but he led it to the islands/coast to deal with the Iron Born. So presumably Highgarden isn't manned by some large force, and could be taken. If Aegon can bait Tarly's force out of King's Landing and defeat it, he'll then be able to move on Highgarden. Or of course he could just siege King's Landing, but that would mean Garlan could flank his forces.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Guess we know why we got that Arya sample chapter released :/

I'm curious how they plan to stretch out her storyline in season 4. That event (I'll be, with the Tickler), was near the end of Storm of Swords if I remember correctly.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I'm curious how they plan to stretch out her storyline in season 4. That event (I'll be, with the Tickler), was near the end of Storm of Swords if I remember correctly.

I'll bet they just stretch out the Arya/Hound storyline to last the whole season. Which could be a good thing depending on how they handle it. There's a lot of room for interesting new material there. She'll probably head to Braavos at the end of the season.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I'll bet they just stretch out the Arya/Hound storyline to last the whole season. Which could be a good thing depending on how they handle it. There's a lot of room for interesting new material there. She'll probably head to Braavos at the end of the season.

That's what I expect. This might be the storyline that deviates the most from the book.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

The R+L=J theory has been sighted on the non-spoiler TV thread. It will be fun to see if that flourishes.

 

[Moff]

we had that last year, too. in the show thread.

I honestly dont understand how you can realize this witthout the tower of joy scene. I'm sure these guys picked this up somewhere. Its not really a spoiler I guess, since its book 1 material that was left out in the show. but I dont understand why you would come in and brag like this with a "new theory", especially since its clear that the bookreaders are watching.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I was thinking that the discussion about Rhygar may have set it off. Do show watchers know that Rhygar "kidnapped" Lyanna?

Also, the poster didn't brag, he said he read it somewhere. Which is fair enough.

 

[Van Owen]

I was thinking that the discussion about Rhygar may have set it off. Do show watchers know that Rhygar "kidnapped" Lyanna?

Robert mentioned it a couple times in season one but I doubt it registers with the average view that thinks Dany's name is Khalissi.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

I think you can come to that conclusion without the Tower of Joy explanation. It's not exactly rocket science that when a man and a woman mysteriously "vanish" together, some hanky panky is probably going to occur.

 

[Trasher]

I think you can come to that conclusion without the Tower of Joy explanation. It's not exactly rocket science that when a man and a woman mysteriously "vanish" together, some hanky panky is probably going to occur.

Has the show actually said that they vanished together though? As a show viewer you've only heard how a war was started because of them, but I don't think it's ever been mentioned that they were ever together in any capacity. Correct me if I'm wrong. Pretty sure show watchers only know that Robert loved Lyanna, and now this new info from Oberyn about Rhaegar loving her as well. The only real info about any of this that someone in the show can give you died with Ned really. Maybe Howland will pop up sometime soon or Oberyn and the Dornish will feed the show with more info.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

No Spoilers thread ranges from people who don't know names to people who immerse themselves in the HBO supplements.

 

[butzopower]

In the show they did add a scene where Ned tells Jon "One day I'll tell you about your mother", around the same time that Ned and Robert visit her grave. It's very subtle, and doesn't totally imply anything, but it definitely feels like it could set it up for viewers of the show. I don't think it's in the book, and I don't see why Ned wouldn't mention it if he had nothing to hide.

 

[Massa]

"DAN WEISS: He asked us, “Who is Jon Snow’s mother?” We had discussed it before, and we gave a shocking answer. At that point, George didn’t actually say whether or not we were right or wrong, but his smile was his tell. We knew we had passed the Wonka test, at that point."

Dave and Dan have said this numerous times, it wouldn't be surprising if TV show fans came across the R+L=J theory. And it's just a theory anyway, it's not a big deal.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Has the show actually said that they vanished together though? As a show viewer you've only heard how a war was started because of them, but I don't think it's ever been mentioned that they were ever together in any capacity. Correct me if I'm wrong. Pretty sure show watchers only know that Robert loved Lyanna, and now this new info from Oberyn about Rhaegar loving her as well. The only real info about any of this that someone in the show can give you died with Ned really. Maybe Howland will pop up sometime soon or Oberyn and the Dornish will feed the show with more info.

Yeah I think Oberyn's statement is new info for them, but now that it's out, I'm sure the R+L=J theory will be at the forefront. I'm sure Oberyn will go into more detail later on in the season, or perhaps Barristan will talk to Dany about it.

 

[Randdalf]

I'll bet they just stretch out the Arya/Hound storyline to last the whole season. Which could be a good thing depending on how they handle it. There's a lot of room for interesting new material there. She'll probably head to Braavos at the end of the season.

There's been shots of Braavos in the trailers, so she definitely goes there this season (probably the final episode).

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Next season's gonna be awesome. Sand Snakes, Cersei's walk, Arya going blind...

 

[KingGondo]

Next season's gonna be awesome. Sand Snakes, Cersei's walk, Arya going blind...

And hopefully lots and lots of Greyjoy pirate hijinks.

 

[Randdalf]

Next season's gonna be awesome. Sand Snakes, Cersei's walk, Arya going blind...

Davos's quest, Dorne, Iron Islands, Tyrion & Jorah, Aegon, Jon & Stannis... I mean, it's not deaths and battles but it's still gonna be great.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

There's been shots of Braavos in the trailers, so she definitely goes there this season (probably the final episode).

Maybe even sooner. They could always expand her story in Braavos and have her going blind this season.

 

[badcrumble]

There's been shots of Braavos in the trailers, so she definitely goes there this season (probably the final episode).

They're having Stannis go there to treat with the Iron Bank folks before he makes his way up to the Wall.

 

[Reyne]

I think you can come to that conclusion without the Tower of Joy explanation. It's not exactly rocket science that when a man and a woman mysteriously "vanish" together, some hanky panky is probably going to occur.

Possibly... I mean, what made the R+L=J so conspicuous in the books is in the fact that Lyanna made Eddard promise her something on her deathbed, where a bed of blood was also a metaphor for a birth bed. So in the very first book, it is strongly implied that Lyanna had a child, obviously with Rhaegar, who, as Robert so graciously put it, 'raped her'. No, I don't believe it was rape, but it couldn't go over anyones head that Lyanna and Rhaegar had sex, whereas in the show I don't think that was even mentioned down in the crypts when Ned and Robert stand before the statue of Lyanna. ( At least that was one part the show wasn't very obvious on, if at all ). Personally, I don't think anyone of the 'truly' unsullied could have put any significance to Lyanna other than Robert loving her and Cersei being bitter about it. Just too many leaps to be made that I think I would actually have to call tinfoil on it, if all I had was the information from the show.

The Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy has another significance though, which would be that Jon was no mere bastard and Lyanna wasn't just some paramour out in the middle of the Dornish Marches, so that should get mentioned soon too, somehow.

Still, now that 'Rhaegar and Lyanna' is again out there, any fool can type 'Rhaegar + Lyanna' into google, and lo, Jon Snow theories abound! And fan art.

This pairing is like Martin's own Lúthien and Beren, someone once said, and I am inclined to agree on that. More tragic though.

 

[Trasher]

Totally agree, Reyne. I think people just want to try and appear so smart on the interwebz.

 

[SamVimes]

As i said in the other thread, check out History and Lore from the dvds and it's basically spelled out.

 

[Trasher]

As i said in the other thread, check out History and Lore from the dvds and it's basically spelled out.

They spell it out in a DVD extra? lol wtf

What do they say?

 

[Randdalf]

They're having Stannis go there to treat with the Iron Bank folks before he makes his way up to the Wall.

Ah, that explains Mark Gatiss's character.

 

[SamVimes]

They spell it out in a DVD extra? lol wtf

What do they say?

Well when most of the facts that lead to believe people that R+L=J are thrown at the viewers in the span of an hour or so it's gonna be super obvious. I watched the show first so i'm not sure if i would have been able to come up with the theory alone but after seeing the extras i was already looking for every little clue which just cemented it for me.