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[Basileus777]

I'm fine with old characters being revealed as alive simply due to how many times it happened in real life, hundreds of years ago. But I greatly dislike cheap cliff hangers where people seemingly die. I'm fine with it at the end of a book, like Theon's apparent death at the end of ACOK. But doing it in the middle of a book is just dumb and has only worked once (Arya in ASOS). I hated Asha's fake out. I suppose this list of fake outs isn't that long...but I still dislike it.

I hope Lemore isn't Ashara, but it makes sense. There's also a theory that she's a Hightower. My issue is that Aegon, be he fake or real, is a big enough reveal, alongside Connington being alive. Having that boat be an all star list of previously thought dead characters seems...off to me.

It's mostly a problem of overuse, for both the fake cliffhangers and the historical figures. It's something that can be effective when used right, but GRRM has just gone to that well way too many times. His deaths now are as credible as a soap opera's, and that's a problem.

 

[TCRS]

Yup. I mean we had Catelyn, Jon, The Hound and Clegane so far. With Tyrion I didn't really feel like he was really dead, but with those I did. But they came back. GRRM has to stop, it cheapens their deaths and the shock value of future deaths.

 

[Massa]

Cat is dead though.

 

[Joni]

Cat is dead though.

As is Clegane.

 

[John Dunbar]

As is Clegane.

the hound is clearly the gravedigger on the quiet isle.

 

[Trasher]

the hound is clearly the gravedigger on the quiet isle.

I think he meant Gregor?

 

[John Dunbar]

I think he meant Gregor?

oh right, that makes sense. i just think of them as the hound and the mountain so all this clegane business confuses me.

 

[CassSept]

Edit: nvm missed a post.

But Hound was implied to be dead and he still most likely lives.

 

[Joni]

Edit: nvm missed a post.

But Hound was implied to be dead and he still most likely lives.

It is a metaphorical death there. The Hound is dead for Sandor Clegane to live without that burden. The death has meaning unlike for instance the fakeout on Tyrion.

 

[Trasher]

The Hound one is weird to me from a storyteller's perspective. GRRM has essentially ended his story in a certain way, but he still has the option to bring him back into the fray if he so desires. I almost feel like he will bring him back just because of the great response show watchers have had towards the character. As it stands now though, the character is like in some weird book purgatory just in case the writer ends up finding a good use for him.

 

[Moff]

I think its not that far off that there will be some kind of trial where zombie-gregor fights faith-sandor. the conflict is there, the prophecy is there, I think thats one of the less crazy theories and actually possible.
the only annoying thing about that would be that its another trial by combat.

 

[Exterminieren]

I think its not that far off that there will be some kind of trial where zombie-gregor fights faith-sandor. the conflict is there, the prophecy is there, I think thats one of the less crazy theories and actually possible.
the only annoying thing about that would be that its another trial by combat.

The gravedigger is expressly lame, though. No way he'd stand up to The Mountain Who Rots.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I was fine with Tyrion's cliff hanger because while I knew he wasn't dead, I was quite convinced he had greyscale. So that had me on edge for the rest of the book.

Martin has said that originally he wrote that sequence as Tyrion not being saved by Connington, and instead washing up on land and eventually meeting the Shrouded Lord. He couldn't get it to work in the narrative though, as it became more of a plot detour than anything else, so he removed it. He said he may release the chapter one day for fans to read, and that it was like a straight up horror short story.

 

[elrechazado]

As is Clegane.

Wrong ....

 

[Joni]

Wrong ....

Gregor Clegane is dead. His skull was removed and sent to Dorne. I don't count undead reanimated corpses as being alive.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I think this is going to be the last 'easy' season for Weiss and co to adapt. I don't envy them the clusterf of adapting Feast for Dragons and a Dance With Crows.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I think this is going to be the last 'easy' season for Weiss and co to adapt. I don't envy them the clusterf of adapting Feast for Dragons and a Dance With Crows.

I'm guessing this was intentional.

There are already bits of the last two books in this season. Season 5 will have the rest and some new material. I expect it will end with Jon's stabbing, Danny meeting the new Khal, fAegon invading Westeros, and Kevan and Pycelle dying with the beginning of Winter. Those all seem like good events to end a season on.

 

[Dysun]

I don't mind fake-out deaths in the middle of the book. It's the cliffhangers that take 5 years (AhemJonAhem) that annoy me because you know they wont last.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I'm guessing this was intentional.

There are already bits of the last two books in this season. Season 5 will have the rest and some new material. I expect it will end with Jon's stabbing, Danny meeting the new Khal, fAegon invading Westeros, and Kevan and Pycelle dying with the beginning of Winter. Those all seem like good events to end a season on.

Of course it was.

I'm sure they'll get two seasons out of both, if only to give GRRM time to finish that fricking book.

 

[Basileus777]

I think this is going to be the last 'easy' season for Weiss and co to adapt. I don't envy them the clusterf of adapting Feast for Dragons and a Dance With Crows.

What will be interesting is to see what gets the cut. ADWD and AFFC have a crazy number of locations, that alone is going to require a ton of changes.

Of course it was.

I'm sure they'll get two seasons out of both, if only to give GRRM time to finish that fricking book.

GRRM isn't get any extra time, HBO doesn't care. Not that any amount of time short of a cancellation will be enough to get him to finish the series before the show.

 

[Exterminieren]

I think this is going to be the last 'easy' season for Weiss and co to adapt. I don't envy them the clusterf of adapting Feast for Dragons and a Dance With Crows.

They've already started in earnest. Look at last week- Theon, Jaime, and Bran all had plot ripped straight from AFFC/ADWD. Everything aside from the wedding and the Stannis material was an adaptation of the last two books.

 

[John Dunbar]

what are the opinions on patchface, evil or just creepy as fuck?

that clown is going to eat shireen.

 

[Dresden]

what are the opinions on patchface, evil or just creepy as fuck?

that clown is going to eat shireen.

Sea Zombie Clown Rhaegar.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Sea Zombie Clown Rhaegar.

How can Rhaegar be Patchface when he's already Mance Rayder and Darkstar.

 

[elrechazado]

Gregor Clegane is dead. His skull was removed and sent to Dorne. I don't count undead reanimated corpses as being alive.

My bad was thinking sandor

 

[A Human Becoming]

How can Rhaegar be Patchface when he's already Mance Rayder and Darkstar.

He's a busy dead man.

 

[rando14]

Sea Zombie Clown Rhaegar.

I for one am greatly anticipating the upcoming Zombie Rhaegar - Jon Connington romance subplot

 

[tokkun]

Gregor Clegane is dead. His skull was removed and sent to Dorne. I don't count undead reanimated corpses as being alive.

A skull was sent. I don't think we know for sure it was his. With this series, any death that doesn't happen on-screen should be considered a fakeout.

 

[A More Normal Bird]

A skull was sent. I don't think we know for sure it was his. With this series, any death that doesn't happen on-screen should be considered a fakeout.

Even if it wasn't his skull (which is a bit of a longshot), Gregor clearly isn't "alive" as we know it. Not even Catelyn/Beric alive. Don't forget Bran's vision in the first book of a giant with nothing but blood under his helmet either.

 

[Joni]

A skull was sent. I don't think we know for sure it was his. With this series, any death that doesn't happen on-screen should be considered a fakeout.

Yes, but the prophecies, the size of the skull and the silence of the giant all point to it being his actual skull.

 

[Herr K]

It's also noteworthy that on the books it was clearly mentioned by Doran that a skull so big had to be Gregor's. Unless Qyburn performed some murmer's trick on the heads of those who he tortured, I don't see that skull being fake.

 

[Moff]

I hat the impression the books definitely let the possibility open that it could be a fake head. personally, It hink its fake, but it probably doesnt even matter. robert strong is something completely new and differenty anyway.

 

[iirate]

I don't see any reason for them to fake it. Gregor was clearly a dead man, and sending them his skull was clearly a good diplomatic gesture. Whatever has come of his body has no need for a head.

 

[Wh0 N0se]

The head was a dwarfs wasn't it? I thought this had been discussed or am I missing something? Isn't the head from one of the dwarfs who was killed by people claiming he was Tyrion or am I talking about something else to you guys?

EDIT: I read the comments

Pretty sure it was a dwarfs head sent by Cersei though, so that she could keep Gregor/Robert Strong

 

[Herr K]

The head was a dwarfs wasn't it? I thought this had been discussed or am I missing something? Isn't the head from one of the dwarfs who was killed by people claiming he was Tyrion or am I talking about something else to you guys?

EDIT: I read the comments

Pretty sure it was a dwarfs head sent by Cersei though, so that she could keep Gregor/Robert Strong

I'm pretty sure the size of a dwarf's head wouldn't be the same as the skull of a man that's almost 8 feet tall, and that weighs over 400 pounds.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

It was Gregor's head. Robert Strong has no head, it's the reanimated body of Gregor without a head. That's why he's always hiding behind that helm.

Plus it fits Bran's vision from book 1:

He saw his father pleading with the king, his face etched with grief. He saw Sansa crying herself to sleep at night, and he saw Arya watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart. There were shadows all around them. One shadow was as dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood.

 

[Pollux]

It was Gregor's head. Robert Strong has no head, it's the reanimated body of Gregor without a head. That's why he's always hiding behind that helm.

Plus it fits Bran's vision from book 1:

I love the amount of foreshadowing GRRM does in these books. I'm really looking forward to going back for an epic re-read when he finally finishes the series so I can pick up on all the clues.

 

[Hammer24]

Didn´t get a reply in that other thread, so I´ll ask here again:
Is there a place on the internet where I can find ALL the thus far released chapters from Winds of Winter? On the GRRM site I can only find "Mercy".

 

[Cornballer]

Didn´t get a reply in that other thread, so I´ll ask here again:
Is there a place on the internet where I can find ALL the thus far released chapters from Winds of Winter? On the GRRM site I can only find "Mercy".

There's a few here plus the new one that's on GRRM's site, afaik.

 

[Hammer24]

There's a few here plus the new one that's on GRRM's site, afaik.

Thanks! The Arianne chapter seems to be gone, there is the Mercy chapter now at this link. Does anyone still have it (if that's allowed)?

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Howland Reed should appear next book riding in a chariot pulled by Komodo Dragons.

 

[jett]

There's a few here plus the new one that's on GRRM's site, afaik.

Has anyone saved those chapters elsewhere?

edit: found it

http://archive.today/2PS7R

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/articl...winds-winter-preview-chapters-online-find.htm

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Unmarked Spoilers thread is talking about favorite theories.

Which got me thinking about Jaqen, and how he's gonna go against Sam prolly next book.

RIP Jaqen.

 

[Herr K]

Unmarked Spoilers thread is talking about favorite theories.

Which got me thinking about Jaqen, and how he's gonna go against Sam prolly next book.

RIP Jaqen.

Wait, what? Why Sam?

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Wait, what? Why Sam?

Well there was that opening chapter where that dude died, and then Sam meets him.

Sam isn't going to die cause...well, GRRM likes the dude.


So that's my guess.

Also, I'm bored at work and wanted to breath life into this thread.

 

[hemtae]

Wait, what? Why Sam?

Jaqen is widely suspected to be the guy that killed Pate in one of the prologues and since Sam is at the Citadel something's bound to happen.

 

[A Human Becoming]

For some reason I keep thinking Arya was at Riverrun during the Red Wedding and that massacres happened both there and at the Twins. This is not true, correct?

 

[toddhunter]

For some reason I keep thinking Arya was at Riverrun during the Red Wedding and that massacres happened both there and at the Twins. This is not true, correct?

No she was outside the Twins.

 

[A Human Becoming]

No she was outside the Twins.

Were there massacres at both locations though?

 

[Fuzzy]

Were there massacres at both locations though?

No. The Freys later lay siege to Riverrun until Jaime comes along and ends it.