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[KuwabaraTheMan]

Rickard Stark married his cousin, another Stark?

Second cousin, actually. She was the cousin of his father Edwyle. But Martin wasn't kidding when he would just answer 'who was Ned's mom' with 'Lady Stark', apparently. I guess this also explains why the Stark features are so prominent with Ned and his siblings.

 

[fallout]

There's a reason why it's not illegal in England to marry your cousin, and it has to do with the monarchy

 

[Supermanisdead]

october cannot come soon enough.

 

[El Daniel]

More World of Ice and Fire content

Really interesting stuff here, especially about the Dornish resistance during Aegon's Conquest. Don't fuck with Dorne, even if you have dragons.

Also, great art in this.

(I'm not sure if this was leaked and if I can post here. Will remove if so)

 

[Moff]

holy shit, what a beautiful book

 

[hateradio]

Not so much the winter, but the time period. You see it with the Targs too:

What the hell is Dante doing there?

 

[Cornballer]

- Westeros.org: World of Ice and Fire Excerpt: The Rhoynar

 

[Supermanisdead]

What is this about the "green men" on the isle of faces?

 

[endre]

In case anyone was wondering where do whores go, I stumbled upon this interesting theory:
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.ph...where-do-whores-go-tysha-littlefinger-tyrion/

 

[Brakke]

In case anyone was wondering where do whores go, I stumbled upon this interesting theory:
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.ph...where-do-whores-go-tysha-littlefinger-tyrion/

It puts so much on

Littlefinger will need a shortcut to get Sansa's marriage annulled

But why though.

It's not like the North is going to call up the High Septon on the phone and ask "hey is this marriage legit or what?" if the Vale rides up to claim Winterfell. The whole damn series is about how legitimacy and laws in Westeros died with Ned. Pretty likely the blood of the First Men stop giving any two shits about Andal authorities and institutions soon anyway.

 

[El Daniel]

- Westeros.org: World of Ice and Fire Excerpt: The Rhoynar

I need this book now.

I'm looking forward to this almost as much as to TWOW. At least this has a release date.

 

[CornBurrito]

Wait what season of the show is/was spoiling book stuff?

 

[Fuzzy]

Wait what season of the show is/was spoiling book stuff?

The last few minutes of S4E4 showed something that was previously only speculated about.

 

[CornBurrito]

The last few minutes of S4E4 showed something that was previously only speculated about.

Ah so season 4 should start showing the rest of the plot. Might as well watch it now on my own terms.

 

[Supermanisdead]

I need this book now.

I'm looking forward to this almost as much as to TWOW. At least this has a release date.

same. i wish it was coming out sooner so i could devote my whole summer to it.

 

[Brakke]

Also the description of S4E10 is a spoiler for the last book.

Spoiler

lol

Circumstances change after an unexpected arrival from north of the Wall; Dany must face harsh realities; Bran learns more about his destiny; Tyrion sees the truth about his situation.

 

[Massa]

The last few minutes of S4E4 showed something that was previously only speculated about.

TWOW

Spoiler

Also the last scene of episode 1, and in season 3 the foreshadowing of Melisandre meeting Arya in the future.

 

[CornBurrito]

Also the description of S4E10 is a spoiler for the last book.

Spoiler

lol

How do you know it is a spoiler for something that would only be revealed in the final novel?

 

[Yonafunu]

TWOW

Spoiler

Also the last scene of episode 1, and in season 3 the foreshadowing of Melisandre meeting Arya in the future.

What are you referring to with

Spoiler

the last scene of episode 1? Mercy?

 

[Brakke]

Because the things in that episode description happen in every chapter.

 

[Massa]

What are you referring to with

Spoiler

the last scene of episode 1? Mercy?

Yes.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Not so much the winter, but the time period. You see it with the Targs too:

I like how the picture of Aegon is just a picture of Dante from Devil May Cry

 

[3rdman]

I posted this question in the TV-spoiler filled thread but no one responded...Perhaps someone will here?

Random question...I'm not up on all the random theories but is it possible that Rob knew Jon's real lineage? I always thought it odd that Rob would proclaim Jon the heir to Winterfell because no matter what he'd say, Jon would still be a bastard in the eyes of many in the North (and especially in the South) and it'd be impossible to secure his seat as "King of the North". Ned was well aware of the dangers of Kings Landing so it would make sense to keep Rob in the loop as he would be the Warden in the North in the event of his death. What think you all?

Was there a mention of Ned talking to Rob in the first book in secret? Has this been theorized on before? Which reminds me of another question for something I forgot...where did the letter go proclaiming Jon the rightful heir to Winterfell?

 

[hemtae]

I posted this question in the TV-spoiler filled thread but no one responded...Perhaps someone will here?

I doubt Ned would have told a fourteen year old especially one that was close to Jon. I think he sent the letter with two of his bannerman to Howland Reed.

 

[Joni]

I think Robb just rightfully presumed the majority of Stark banner men would accept the last Stark as king of the North. Jon was 'the last surviving child' of Ned Stark. The North has always had a Stark in Winterfell, they were not going to let a detail like his last name get in the way of that.

 

[3rdman]

I doubt Ned would have told a fourteen year old especially one that was close to Jon. I think he sent the letter with two of his bannerman to Howland Reed.

People grow up very fast in Westeros.

If ned never told Rob though, his choice to pronounce Jon the heir is still an odd one. Who in the North would bow to a bastard and expect the banners to rally behind him? Without foreknowledge, this decision is a pretty odd one.

Also, Ned may have been a bit naive but he wasn't stupid. Jon's lineage is only known to two people and one of them was headed to King's Landing. Since Jon had decided to go to the wall, it's possible that Jon's lineage would have been erased from history if Ned kept quiet.

If the letter was sent to Reed, I think this theory holds a bit more water. It's been theorized that only Reed knew Jon's parents and if Rob sent him the letter, he's literally sending it to the ONLY person in all of Westeros who knows Jon's true lineage...what a coincidence, don't you think?

Jumping into another theory, the new High Septon may also be the illusive Howland Reed and he put himself into a position that can help Jon take the throne. It kind of makes sense, no?

 

[Joni]

If ned never told Rob though, his choice to pronounce Jon the heir is still an odd one. Who in the North would bow to a bastard and expect the banners to rally behind him? Without foreknowledge, this decision is a pretty odd one.

Everyone thinks Jon Snow is the son of Ned Stark. At that point in time, what does Robb know: dad dead, Bran dead, Rickon dead, Sansa engaged to arch enemy, Arya in hands of queen. Who does he take? It is not an odd choice, Jon is the only Stark left. As the King of the North he could easily turn a Snow into a Stark. If Stannis could do it, why not Robb? Like that, the banner men would easily follow Jon.

 

[Paganmoon]

What Robb did/tried to do with the letter was to legitimize Jon, same as Roose finally did with Ramsay. There have been other precedents in the books, or at least the lore when a bastard has been legitimized.

 

[Walter White Walker]

Crap - my copy of ADWD has a blank blob where the ink didn't print. Can someone please tell me what it says on page 922 - 2nd paragraph from the bottom, up to where it says, "...what we do here goes deeper." Much appreciated if someone can fill in that literal blank for me!

 

[CassSept]

What Robb did/tried to do with the letter was to legitimize Jon, same as Roose finally did with Ramsay. There have been other precedents in the books, or at least the lore when a bastard has been legitimized.

Blackfyres for Christ's sake. As it's been said, as far as Jon knows every other Stark is dead. To keep the claim he'd either have to legitimize Jon or... what? I guess there are always Karstarks?

Crap - my copy of ADWD has a blank blob where the ink didn't print. Can someone please tell me what it says on page 922 - 2nd paragraph from the bottom, up to where it says, "...what we do here goes deeper." Much appreciated if someone can fill in that literal blank for me!

Would help if you said what version are you reading, mine ADWD is hardcover and since it's a size of a brick it's shorter so I can't help you. Seriously, you could probably kill someone with hardcover ADWD.

 

[Walter White Walker]

Blackfyres for Christ's sake. As it's been said, as far as Jon knows every other Stark is dead. To keep the claim he'd either have to legitimize Jon or... what? I guess there are always Karstarks?



Would help if you said what version are you reading, mine ADWD is hardcover and since it's a size of a brick it's shorter so I can't help you. Seriously, you could probably kill someone with hardcover ADWD.

It's the paperback version, says Bantam Books mass market edition: November 2013

It's the part towards the end where Arya is having some ugly girl's face grafted (?) onto her face. Something about "artifice" and "glamors" but it's about 2 sentence (I think) that are illegible.

 

[Fuzzy]

It's the paperback version, says Bantam Books mass market edition: November 2013

It's the part towards the end where Arya is having some ugly girl's face grafted (?) onto her face. Something about "artifice" and "glamors" but it's about 2 sentence (I think) that are illegible.

Here you go.

 

[Paganmoon]

Blackfyres for Christ's sake. As it's been said, as far as Jon knows every other Stark is dead. To keep the claim he'd either have to legitimize Jon or... what? I guess there are always Karstarks?

Are... are you agreeing with me or telling me off. I really can't tell

 

[Walter White Walker]

Here you go.

Awesome - thanks!

 

[CassSept]

Are... are you agreeing with me or telling me off. I really can't tell

Oh, it was meant to be an agreement, simply that if there is no-one else in the line it's not unusual to legitimize bastards, it doesn't mean Robb had to know anything about Jon's true parents.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Kings can legitimize bastards so I doubt there would be any problem. Given the love the north displays for Ned, Robb, and the Stark name in ADWD I can't see them refusing to follow Jon.

Seems kind of moot now given Jon's situation. I never bought the idea that he would abandon the NW in their hour of need to chase the crown. Now that he's either dead or almost dead I don't see him willingly leaving the Wall either, assuming he recovers.

If anything I could see him leading the north beyond the Wall to face the Others. Personally I'd like to see him become a villain though.

 

[DC1]

Kings can legitimize bastards so I doubt there would be any problem. Given the love the north displays for Ned, Robb, and the Stark name in ADWD I can't see them refusing to follow Jon.

Seems kind of moot now given Jon's situation. I never bought the idea that he would abandon the NW in their hour of need to chase the crown. Now that he's either dead or almost dead I don't see him willingly leaving the Wall either, assuming he recovers.

If anything I could see him leading the north beyond the Wall to face the Others. Personally I'd like to see him become a villain though.

*smiles*
You absolutely do not want to see Jon become a villain!

I'm absolutely sure that Jon will be left to die in front of all to see. He would be then brought back to life by the red priestess and shown the future through the flame. He is the true One to come.

Under this influence he would be under no obligation to fight his way back and or assume his role as the commander of the NW. This role is replaced with an obligation to be the savior of the north, savior of the realm. Throw in a dream/meeting with Bren to help balance the Flame's perspective. House stark will be survived through Jon.

Oh... couple the above (your point regarding legitimization) with a letter from his brother, sealed prior to the red wedding stating that his name has been fully reinstated.

...I have no idea. Just don't want the 'old switch-a-rew' from your other suggestion.

 

[RedShift]

I was randomly browsing Wikipedia and came across this page on The Anarchy, an English/Norman civil war in the early 12th Century, and it is crazily similar to the Dance of the Dragons. (Obviously minus the dragons).

Both feature a king trying to install his daughter as successor, and then a war between the daughter and the king's male heir starting upon his death. Both are resolved by the male heir becoming king but taking the daughter's son as his heir.

I'd never really heard of The Anarchy before but it sounds interesting.

 

[Basileus777]

I'm pretty sure I've read that The Anarchy was a direct inspiration, so the similarities aren't coincidental.

 

[A More Normal Bird]

I was randomly browsing Wikipedia and came across this page on The Anarchy, an English/Norman civil war in the early 12th Century, and it is crazily similar to the Dance of the Dragons. (Obviously minus the dragons).

Both feature a king trying to install his daughter as successor, and then a war between the daughter and the king's male heir starting upon his death. Both are resolved by the male heir becoming king but taking the daughter's son as his heir.

I'd never really heard of The Anarchy before but it sounds interesting.

Nice catch. The Pillars of the Earth is set during that time; the series is worth a watch imo, haven't read the book.

 

[elrechazado]

Cross posting my crackpot theory from the other thread:

Speaking of theories everyone hates, I am more and more convinced that Jamie and cersei are secret targs.

The baseline facts we have are that we know aerys wanted Joanna, took liberties at the bedding. May have done more at another time, we don't know.

Cersei has the targ madness, loves the fire, and she and Jamie constantly refer to the targs in their discussions about their incest. And oh course we all know they had kids together.

What convinced me more than anything is Jamie's dreams and visions. If you've read dunk and egg, the targs and blackfyres dream of others and have the kind of visions that Jamie did of brienne. The fiddler, a blackfyre, has dreams that are true, but like melisandre and others, interprets them incorrectly. He tells dunk "I dreamed of you". Daeron son of maekar uses the same words in the same way. Jamie says the same when he rescues brienne.

Seems odd for them to all say this. Then you have lady genna saying that tyrion is tywins son. I know she means it as in intelligence and mannerisms, but it could easily be a double meaning. Aerys also was said many times to have "stolen tywins heir" in the sense that he put him in the kingsguard. Another clear single meaning that could be read both ways.

I dont want half the world to be secret targs, but this one makes a lot of sense.

#teamDaario=Euron
#teamVarystheMerlingking

 

[Last Hearth]

I think I hate the Jaime/Cersei is secret Targ theory only slightly less than I hate the Tyrion is secret Targ theory.

Let the Lannisters stay Lannisters and no more secret Targs other than Jon.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

I think I hate the Jaime/Cersei is secret Targ theory only slightly less than I hate the Tyrion is secret Targ theory.

Let the Lannisters stay Lannisters and no more secret Targs other than Jon.

Jaqen is a secret Targ

 

[ZeroRay]

Yeah, not very keen on the whole Lannisters being secret Targ theory.

Though I am very pro "every major player in the great houses being descended from Egg" theory.

 

[Walter White Walker]

Well, on the one hand great I finished A Dance With Dragons.
On the other hand, oh crap now I have to wait for the next book, let alone the conclusion to the series.
Talk about mixed feelings!

 

[DC1]

Well, on the one hand great I finished A Dance With Dragons.
On the other hand, oh crap now I have to wait for the next book, let alone the conclusion to the series.
Talk about mixed feelings!

I dragged the last 200 pages out for 6 months.
Now all you have to do is read the following pre-released chapters for the upcoming book:
-Tyrion
-Theon
-Mercy: Arya

 

[Basileus777]

Cross posting my crackpot theory from the other thread:

Speaking of theories everyone hates, I am more and more convinced that Jamie and cersei are secret targs.

The baseline facts we have are that we know aerys wanted Joanna, took liberties at the bedding. May have done more at another time, we don't know.

Cersei has the targ madness, loves the fire, and she and Jamie constantly refer to the targs in their discussions about their incest. And oh course we all know they had kids together.

What convinced me more than anything is Jamie's dreams and visions. If you've read dunk and egg, the targs and blackfyres dream of others and have the kind of visions that Jamie did of brienne. The fiddler, a blackfyre, has dreams that are true, but like melisandre and others, interprets them incorrectly. He tells dunk "I dreamed of you". Daeron son of maekar uses the same words in the same way. Jamie says the same when he rescues brienne.

Seems odd for them to all say this. Then you have lady genna saying that tyrion is tywins son. I know she means it as in intelligence and mannerisms, but it could easily be a double meaning. Aerys also was said many times to have "stolen tywins heir" in the sense that he put him in the kingsguard. Another clear single meaning that could be read both ways.

I dont want half the world to be secret targs, but this one makes a lot of sense.

#teamDaario=Euron
#teamVarystheMerlingking

This is the type of thing that would make me hate the series if it were true.

Well, on the one hand great I finished A Dance With Dragons.
On the other hand, oh crap now I have to wait for the next book, let alone the conclusion to the series.
Talk about mixed feelings!

Hey, you might get a book next year. At least you're not waiting 12 years for ADWD.

 

[Fuzzy]

I dragged the last 200 pages out for 6 months.
Now all you have to do is read the following pre-released chapters for the upcoming book:
-Tyrion
-Theon
-Mercy: Arya

There are more released chapters than that.

 

[Gvaz]

Shit, now they've killed lysa on the show, what the fuck will they do for 3 seasons now?

Nothing happens with them.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Shit, now they've killed lysa on the show, what the fuck will they do for 3 seasons now?

Nothing happens with them.

Three seasons of Petyr pervin' on Sansa

But in all seriousness, him winning over the Veil could be extended