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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**

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V

viciouskillersquirrel

Member
DrForester said:
The fucking fuck of fuck?!?!?!

aotNmA2.jpg
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كنت تعرف شيئا ، جون سنو .
 
K

Kyougar

Member
I cant remember, but was it mentioned in the books, that the Lannister "lost" all of their Gold mines? I thought that was huge, when Tywin mentioned that to Cersei in the show.
With Tyrion broke now (Second Sons buyout)
 
K

Kyougar

Member
Could it then be a spoiler or was it something the showrunners thought to include to simplify the Iron Bank Storyline?

I would tend to the second option, but wouldnt be surprised if, in the end, the Lannisters are really out of Gold.
 
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Basileus777

Member
If the Lannisters are out of gold Kevan would know about it, and in his POV we see him thinking of how they could use Lannister gold to pay off the crown's debt. So it's a show invention.
 
J

John Dunbar

correct about everything
Basileus777 said:
If the Lannisters are out of gold Kevan would know about it, and in his POV we see him thinking of how they could use Lannister gold to pay off the crown's debt. So it's a show invention.
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i agree that it's probably a show only thing, but can this really be said with certainty? if necessary gurm would surely device something to explain his ignorance. one thing is for sure that he wouldn't have revealed it in an off-hand pov thought from a guy about to die. and it may have been necessary to make kevan ignorant of it to answer questions that lannister's poverty would raise ("why didn't kevan say anything?" "because he didn't know.")

personally i just think there is a big chance that tyrion will regain casterly rock and when he opens the vaults to pay his debts, he's in for a surprise.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
John Dunbar said:
i agree that it's probably a show only thing, but can this really be said with certainty? if necessary gurm would surely device something to explain his ignorance. one thing is for sure that he wouldn't have revealed it in an off-hand pov thought from a guy about to die. and it may have been necessary to make kevan ignorant of it to answer questions that lannister's poverty would raise ("why didn't kevan say anything?" "because he didn't know.")

personally i just think there is a big chance that tyrion will regain casterly rock and when he opens the vaults to pay his debts, he's in for a surprise.
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Kevan was Tywin's right hand man and was in Casterly Rock recently before his chapter. If he doesn't know about the Lannisters' finances, no one does.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
This could be something accelerated from the books, not simply invented. If it's important to the overall story, the show could just be planting the seeds earlier.
 
B

BrassDragon

Member
Memento Mori said:
True but considering how Tywin hated being laughed at, I could believe him keeping the lack of gold a secret from everyone.
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I really have a hard time believing this - presumably, there used to be a mining operation going on to get the gold out of the Rock. To keep the secret, they'd have to silence all the miners and sappers or give them some sort of fake employment. Surely there are smiths in Lannisport dependent on the ore? Sailors and merchants who make trade runs specifically to get gold items from the Westerlands? Seems like there are way too many people involved to keep a lid on the secret.

I'm also iffy about the idea that maesters know enough about geology to declare a mine 'depleted' with medieval-era technology. It's not like you can drill out core samples.

Because Martin is such a meticulous world builder, we need to consider such realistic details.

The more likely explanation is that the television writers are just sloppy. They often change things from the books without considering the butterfly effect these deviations have. They might feel that marrying Joffrey to the Tyrell swords wasn't enough of a motivation so they made it more dramatic by adding the depleted Lannister treasury.
 
I

Iksenpets

Banned
H.Cornerstone said:
Didn't Kevan threaten Cersei though that he had a lot of wealth hidden somewhere left to him from his father?
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Kevan having a lot of personal wealth is a pretty different thing from having wealth enough to finance a kingdom. If I had to guess, I would say that the show is probably just exaggerating some future book stuff. The idea that the mines are completely dry definitely isn't true in the books, but I could see it coming out that the Lannister wealth isn't quite as huge as they've been making it out to be this whole time.
 
W

Walshicus

Member
I just got another email saying The World of Ice and Fire is coming in November, following on from the one that said no, it's coming in October, which itself followed from one that said it was coming in November.

I'm pretty confused.
 
N

NeoGiff

Member
Sir Fragula said:
I just got another email saying The World of Ice and Fire is coming in November, following on from the one that said no, it's coming in October, which itself followed from one that said it was coming in November.

I'm pretty confused.
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Same. It seems Amazon is confused.
 
V

Violet_0

Banned
started with A Feast for Crows after season 4 of GoT and just finished A Dance With Dragons. Two thoughts: Snow's "death" (I'm not sure if he's really dead) was sort of random, and what's up with those kids with white faces and dark eyes that killed Kevan Lannister in the epilogue?
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Violet_0 said:
started with A Feast for Crows after season 4 of GoT and just finished A Dance With Dragons. Two thoughts: Snow's "death" (I'm not sure if he's really dead) was sort of random, and what's up with those kids with white faces and dark eyes that killed Kevan Lannister in the epilogue?
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Kevan was killed by Varys' little birds - the children he hides throughout King's Landing in walls to listen to everything. He has their tongues cut out so they can't speak.
 
V

Violet_0

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
Kevan was killed by Varys' little birds - the children he hides throughout King's Landing in walls to listen to everything. He has their tongues cut out so they can't speak.
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ah alright, I missed out on that by not reading the earlier books. For a moment I was like "... wights?"
 
R

RedShift

Member
Sir Fragula said:
Another day, another email from Amazon with the release date for World of Ice and Fire bouncing back and forth.
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The worst part is how proud of themselves they sound when they put it back to the correct release date each time. 'We're going to get it to you even faster than we thought!'.
 
K

Kuraudo

Banned
It's like "an ASoIaF book releasing" has become a logical fallacy that Amazon's system can't deal with. Their servers will probably self-destruct if they actually end up having to send dispatch confirmations.
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
Incandenza said:
Someone on /r/asoiaf has an advance copy of TWOIAF.
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About a third of the book is comprised of an overview of the Targaryen kings, organized in chronological order.

Readers not too familiar with all this background information should find these tales quite compelling. Die-hard fans who’ve spent a lot of time on the Wiki of Ice and Fire, and who have read the novellas and devoured reports of readings at cons, will be familiar with much of it.

However, bear in mind that this is written as history, and is even more condensed than The Princess and the Queen was, which often gives off the feeling of reading a summary.
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We are frequently only given a few details on characters or events that I found particularly compelling, and I was often left wanting more. Sometimes this is to tease future stories — especially in the case of Dunk and Egg, where I’m desperate to read novella-length accounts of 5 or 6 of the future events in their lives that are summarized briefly here. Elsewhere, the condensation is understandable considering there’s so much packed in the book, but still a bit frustrating.
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Most of the rest of the book is organized as profiles of regions — mainly each of the kingdoms, and various places in Essos, and the people who live and rule in each. In my view, as it gets further removed from the main story and its plotlines, both chronologically and geographically, it becomes less compelling. For instance, I would have preferred more information about the Starks during the Targaryen era, of which we get quite little.
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The design of the book is impeccable — it is a big and impressive piece of work, deserving its “coffee table” moniker. There is a ton of art that is a great deal of fun to look at. When it comes to character depictions, I must say that there were a few too many “generic beautiful fantasy women” for my taste, and I was hoping for some more unique and memorable faces. But the depictions of locations are frequently astonishing, with many vivid images that will trigger flights of imagination.

Overall, it is a deep, rich, and dense book. I come away from it with a new respect for GRRM’s achievement in creating this world, and astonishment at how many stories that could conceivably be told in it.
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Sounds great!

Also,

As for the theories about the deepest secrets of the main series, I doubt the book will affect the conversation on them very much — with a very notable exception,
as one particularly controversial theory is about to become more popular than ever.
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Ohhh shhhhhhiiiiii
 
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