sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
Doran's revealing his plans for revenge in AFFC was one of the highlights of the book. It was such a letdown when that went down the drain and Dany blew off Quentyn. GRRM hyped it up for nothing.
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
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elrechazado
Banned
Yeah, in retrospect quentyn being a little bitch, getting shot down by dany, and the entire plan being an old letter, was just...lame. I'm with the sand snakes now - doran's a bitch.sazabirules said:
sazabirules said:
I disagree. The huge shocking moment for me wasnt that he was going to marry his son to Dany, the moment was that Dorne would totally support the Targ and wash the rest of Westeros in Fire and Blood. Fire and Blood is still definitely on the table,
It really just depends on when the hell is Dany going to get over here. Dorne could also rise up with the Golden Company, and Aegon could perhaps even marry Doran's daughter
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
Gonaria said:
He may be a little more reluctant after Dany blew his son off and his son dying indirectly from that.
sazabirules said:
I don't think so. Doran doesnt strike me as that kind of man. He wouldnt blame Dany for his death since it was totally Quentyn's fault. The dude is practical and will totally support Dany if its a sure victory and he can get his revenge and fire and blood
If it was Cersei, well, then Id agree with you. But with Doran, no way.
ZephyrFate
Banned
I totally disagree. Quentyn's storyline was the reason "words are wind" had such an impact, because it is literally his ENTIRE story. He realized, in the end, that a piece of paper from Dorne wasn't gonna do shit. And pieces of paper have done nothing in this series -- look at Ned's attempt to dethrone Joffrey.sazabirules said:
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
I just think Dany blowing off the Martell alliance will come back to bite her in the ass in the future.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
sazabirules said:
I think it will. He'll likely side with fake Aegon now and maybe try and marry Arianne to him.
sazabirules said:
The only way I see it is if Dorne supports Aegon. Personally, I think that is exactly what is giong to happen. Dorne is going to support Aegon, and Dany, when she finally reaches Westeros, will land in the North near the wall. That whole go south to go north thing. She'll be there dealing dealing with The Others stuff with Jon. Dorne is simply too far away in that scenario, and Aegon will give Dorne what it wants a whole lot sooner than Dany
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
I wouldn't put it past GRRM to have Aegon and Dany not end up on the same side.
sazabirules said:
I definitely don't think those two will marry and believe that they will be focusing on two different things. Since they are focusing on two different things, they really don't have to come into conflict with one another, but after one or both gets resolved, I really don't know what will happen with the two. That is, assuming that they both live and are successful
Gamer @ Heart
Member
I don't expect dany to live through the end. The end of this book showed she is a tool of destruction, not peace. There is no place for her should westeroes unite and beat the others with her help.sazabirules said:
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
I hope Arya kills Dany. That would make my day.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
sazabirules said:
Me too, but I doubt that will happen.
Sirpopopop
Member
PhoenixDark said:
Bluemax never said it was a unique device?
While I don't think Martin is going into a full, "Will they or won't they," mode, if, for some reason he was, then, well... not even ZephyrFate would defend him.
I've never read the books or seen the show...I know there's spoilers in here but I don't think there's another thread so I thought I might as well ask in here.
I just picked up the first four books with a Border's gift card I had that I wanted to use before they went down.
So I just got past the prologue in A Game of Thrones...the whole Others people that killed the guy in the beginning were kind of interesting. When does this book really pick up? I've heard the series is like crack but I guess for now it's just introducing elements.
I just picked up the first four books with a Border's gift card I had that I wanted to use before they went down.
So I just got past the prologue in A Game of Thrones...the whole Others people that killed the guy in the beginning were kind of interesting. When does this book really pick up? I've heard the series is like crack but I guess for now it's just introducing elements.
The Lamp said:
One quick google search finds a ton of Game of Thrones threads.
All books thread - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=210654
TV thread (season 1 spoilers) - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=425658
TV thread (no book spoilers) - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=426820
ZephyrFate
Banned
Most definitely would not defend him.Sirpopopop said:
velvet_nitemare
Member
So are we sure this Aegon is fake? I heavily suspect he is, but i'm wondering if i missed something in the book.
PhoenixDark
Banned
The Targeryens are apparently immune to disease. Perhaps the only thing I liked about Dany's last chapter is that she seemingly gets sick, but as you read on it becomes clear she's having a miscarriage; she can't truly catch the flux (dysentery) and seems to just be shitting due to the berries.
With Connington having greyscale and constantly being around Aegon, I wonder if him being infected will be one of the ways Dany proves he's a fraud - assuming she comes to Westeros.
With Connington having greyscale and constantly being around Aegon, I wonder if him being infected will be one of the ways Dany proves he's a fraud - assuming she comes to Westeros.
Basileus777
Member
They aren't, at least not all of them. The Great Spring Sickness in the Sworn Sword killed off a bunch of Targs.PhoenixDark said:
PhoenixDark
Banned
Basileus777 said:
Ahhhhh
Gamer @ Heart
Member
Now that there is a targ back in westeros, I really hope he gets in a position to find out more about summerhall. I read the theories and they make good sense, but confirmation or more direct hinting would be great.
Granger Danger
Member
Brothers & Sisters. It's like ASoIaF but without magic.yacobod said:
I'm interested in how greyscale's prominence in ADWD is going to come up in future books. Especially with Val's reaction to Shireen. Reading this one line from her:
"The maesters may believe what they wish. Ask a woods witch if you would know the truth. The grey death sleeps, only to wake again. The child is not clean!"
Almost makes it seem that the Others may be able to control those afflicted by greyscale, the same way they can control other dead flesh.
"The maesters may believe what they wish. Ask a woods witch if you would know the truth. The grey death sleeps, only to wake again. The child is not clean!"
Almost makes it seem that the Others may be able to control those afflicted by greyscale, the same way they can control other dead flesh.
I really like that Tyrion and Dany never met up in the book. We're all envisioning them as a dream pairing, because Tyrion is a master strategist who has no power, and Dany has all power but no strategy. Instead of having them forge an alliance and tear shit up, we're seeing them both beaten down by their shortcomings like they've never experienced before. Tyrion has to ride on a pig for everyone's amusement, while Dany is close to losing her hold on Meereen because she can't figure out how the game of thrones works.
After everything that happened in ADwD, their eventual pairing/alliance will only be that much sweeter, because it's only now apparent how much they need eachother to survive.
After everything that happened in ADwD, their eventual pairing/alliance will only be that much sweeter, because it's only now apparent how much they need eachother to survive.
ZephyrFate
Banned
Explanation? I don't expect you to give one, but I love to ask.Puddles said:
ZephyrFate said:
Well, I'll say this. I think that the best Tyrion chapters in the entire book were the ones on the Shy Maid. I loved the descriptions of the various ruins along the river, and the little bits of history. That part of the journey definitely has a lot of interest.
Unfortunately all that goes downhill once he gets captured by Jorah. The rest of his "journey" is relatively cliched, and very boring. He's forced to play nice with a dwarf girl he feels sorry for, and his interaction with Jorah is limited to getting slapped and punched. It's not entertaining to read, nor is there anything interesting or informative during this journey. Most of it is the same crap with him feeling sorry for Penny, and feeling sorry for himself for getting into this sorry situation. By the end of the novel, he doesn't even get to Dany. Instead he's still stuck with boring characters and in a stupid situation.
So yeah, I feel that the Tyrion storyline is a bit of a bust in Dance, and what started out in an interesting way went into the garbage once he hooked up with Jorah. Did anyone actually enjoy Tyrion's storyline with Penny? Seriously.
I enjoyed them, for the reasons I stated above. It gives us a glimpse into Tyrion's life without the protection of his wealth and titles. There's no other life for a dwarf than to partake in freak shows, and to be used as a good luck charm. His tongue, which he used to use to his advantage, now gets him beat up and abused. This is the deconstruction of Tyrion that we needed to see before he rises to prominence again, or else his actions would have had no consequences.duckroll said:
Clipjoint said:
I don't really agree with this, and I'll tell you why. Like you have mentioned, most of us are pretty familiar with what life a dwarf can expect in a world like this without the benefits of a strong family name and personal wealth. But this is not something alien to us, or to Tyrion. He knows this very well, and so do we. There is nothing in these chapters which give us more in-depth information into what it is to be a dwarf. It's basically what we know and expect, drawn out over a whole ton of pages.
To make things worse, I feel that it is rather artificially crafted, because it is by no means a downfall for Tyrion or even a deconstruction. He is very much still in control, and he is by no means actually lowering himself to living a life of a common man. The only factor is that he was basically enslaved. It had nothing to do with being a dwarf. It had to do with being a slave. We also know what the lives of slaves are like in Essos. That is also nothing new or interesting in terms of what the series has covered before.
I don't see why all this boring stuff needs to happen to give "consequence" to his actions. The very fact that his father is dead, Jaime feels horribly betrayed, and Tyrion is far from home, are all consequences of his actions. Giving Tyrion a pity friend female dwarf doesn't improve or enhance the situation. It only serves to make it mushy and injects some artificial innocence into the narrative.
duckroll said:
Of course we know what it would be like for a dwarf in those times, but that doesn't mean there's nothing to be gained from experiencing that ourselves. All three main characters in the book (Tyrion, Jon, and Dany) are dealing with the repercussions of their actions in the previous books, and their new positions. Jon has wisdom and pragmatism, but no legitimacy/diplomacy - and he ends up getting stabbed for it. Dany is all power and morals, but she's unbending and blind to scheming, and she ends up being betrayed. I think we needed to see Tyrion debased and depressed, broken down but enduring because of his motivation to keep living.
His chapters weren't pleasant to read, but I think they'll be important for his overall character arc. In a sense, his utter humiliation and the destruction of his pride somewhat matches Cersei's walk of shame. I can see if your quibble is that it went on for too long, whereas Cersei's was dealt with in one (fantastic) chapter, but I enjoyed watching him get by with nothing more than his wits alone. To a degree, that's why he was constantly going back to the cyvasse board over and over again. On that board, he always felt like he had an advantage, and he could prove his intelligence without resorting to japes and insults.
I certainly enjoyed the Tyrion chapters much more than the Dany chapters.
ZephyrFate
Banned
I found the whole Tyrion/Penny thing to be hilarious, alongside Jorah getting his shit kicked in.duckroll said:
but yeah, the river trip was pretty awesome. It felt like he was channeling his previous book, Fevre Dream, for that sequence.
The book would've been better served if Penny was cut completely. Tyrion's chapters from then on felt completely detached from any other narrative. They read as a gigantic, "meanwhile, here's what our favorite dwarf has been getting himself into!"
GRRM should've just had Tyrion/Jorah sail out with the Windblown (would require some timeline shifting, but not a big deal). He could then cut out Quentyn's earlier chapters (only need one eye there), which may have made the reveal of Frog as the prince of Dorne, rather than Drinkwater, more shocking. Tyrion could still be waylaid somehow and end up joining the Second Sons by the end, but at least this way, GRRM could've cut the fat out of his middle chapters and completely scrap the 'Adventures of Tyrion and Penny.' And those extra pages saved may have allowed the editor to squeeze in some resolutions for the Battle of Winterfell and Meereen, and make this feel like a complete book.
GRRM should've just had Tyrion/Jorah sail out with the Windblown (would require some timeline shifting, but not a big deal). He could then cut out Quentyn's earlier chapters (only need one eye there), which may have made the reveal of Frog as the prince of Dorne, rather than Drinkwater, more shocking. Tyrion could still be waylaid somehow and end up joining the Second Sons by the end, but at least this way, GRRM could've cut the fat out of his middle chapters and completely scrap the 'Adventures of Tyrion and Penny.' And those extra pages saved may have allowed the editor to squeeze in some resolutions for the Battle of Winterfell and Meereen, and make this feel like a complete book.
Was anyone else perplexed by why Dany likes him so much? I get that he's apparently very handsome, but I could never picture him as such with that silly forked blue beard of his. Besides that, there isn't much to like about the guy, so I didn't really understand what attracted Dany so much to him.duckroll said:That's not saying much. Unless you're Daario. Lol.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Dany is into assholes.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Dany and Joffrey would actually have probably been a pretty good couple.
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