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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**

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Haven't seen much discussion about this, but how hilarious after all of the theories on jon's parents would it be if the tale that Davos heard in sisterton turned out to be true - that ned knocked up a fisherman's daughter and named his bastard after jon arryn while covertly making his way to the north?
 

Dresden

Member
elrechazao said:
Haven't seen much discussion about this, but how hilarious after all of the theories on jon's parents would it be if the tale that Davos heard in sisterton turned out to be true - that ned knocked up a fisherman's daughter and named his bastard after jon arryn while covertly making his way to the north?
It'd be awesome just for the tears from all the R+L=J fanboys.
 

Piecake

Member
tokkun said:
That doesn't particularly excuse his practice of faking a character's death by having a POV chapter end with them about to die and "everything turned red/black" or by having their death reported in another POV. And I guess I forgot to include Bran in my list, as his death is also faked in this manner.

I think the Brienne/Jamie chapters would have been much betterif Jamie's chapter in ADWD was included in Feast. Then instead of wondering what word Brienne said and whether she survived or not, we would have been wondering what word she said and what is going to happen to Jamie.

A slight change, but Jamie's chapter just felt so out of place in ADWD and would have worked a lot better in Feast since it just makes sense to have it in there and would have been a better cliffhanger.
 

ItAintEasyBeinCheesy

it's 4th of July in my asshole
Amir0x said:
Song of Ice and Fire.

The growing Winter must be related to Ice Dragons. They said there is a magical element to the seasons. So, up north, it's a barely hospitable frozen wasteland. In Essos, Old Valyria was destroyed in a fire-based cataclysm - related to a mighty fire dragon, possibly, and the Firewyrms. And that entire place is now a firey wasteland.

Hardhome had been halfway toward becoming a town, the only true town north of the Wall, until the night six hundred years ago when hell had swallowed it. Its people had been carried off into slavery or slaughtered for meat, depending on which version of the tale you believed, their homes and halls consumed in a conflagration that burned so hot that watchers on the Wall far to the south had thought the sun was rising in the north. Afterward ashes rained down on haunted forest and Shivering Sea alike for almost half a year. Traders reported finding only nightmarish devastation where Hardhome had stood, a landscape of charred trees and burned bones, waters choked with swollen corpses, blood-chilling shrieks echoing from the cave mouths that pocked the great cliff that loomed above the settlement.
Six centuries had come and gone since that night, but Hardhome was still shunned. The wild had reclaimed the site, Jon had been told, but rangers claimed that the overgrown ruins were haunted by ghouls and demons and burning ghosts with an unhealthy taste for blood.

The cave's thing got me the most..... dragons, wyrms. I dont think it was slavers though.
 
elrechazao said:
Haven't seen much discussion about this, but how hilarious after all of the theories on jon's parents would it be if the tale that Davos heard in sisterton turned out to be true - that ned knocked up a fisherman's daughter and named his bastard after jon arryn while covertly making his way to the north?
It would be terrible as that would imply GRRM is prolonging the mystery for no reason. I mean Jon, the only person who would care, is dead. If his ancestry was so mundane then really what was the point?
 

duckroll

Member
QuiteWhittle said:
It would be terrible, as that would imply GRRM is prolonging the mystery for no reason.

He's not prolonging anything. No one in the Seven Kingdoms really gives a shit who Jon's parents are, and even Jon doesn't give a shit anymore. There is really nothing in the narrative that continues to bring up any hints that Jon's parentage is of any importance. It's just a plot point which fans tend to obsess over because a popular fantasy story trope is that the main character's parentage is important and has some bearing on a major plot twist.
 
duckroll said:
He's not prolonging anything. No one in the Seven Kingdoms really gives a shit who Jon's parents are, and even Jon doesn't give a shit anymore. There is really nothing in the narrative that continues to bring up any hints that Jon's parentage is of any importance. It's just a plot point which fans tend to obsess over because a popular fantasy story trope is that the main character's parentage is important and has some bearing on a major plot twist.

Personally, I like that he is seemingly Ned's son because someone needs to carry the Stark banner. The Targaryens suck, I'd rather Jon not be related to them.
 
PhoenixDark said:
Ned and Lyanna are Jon's parents. It is known
That would bring things around to the full circle of incest really nicely if it were revealed in book 7. On a related note, how long until bran wargs into jojen so that he can hook up with meera?
 

bengraven

Member
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy said:
The cave's thing got me the most..... dragons, wyrms. I dont think it was slavers though.

Yeah, I'm wondering the significance of Hardhome as well.


haha what if Lyanna is still alive? She's off living with Ned's son from Ashara Dayne while he raised hers.
 

ItAintEasyBeinCheesy

it's 4th of July in my asshole
elrechazao said:
That would bring things around to the full circle of incest really nicely if it were revealed in book 7. On a related note, how long until bran wargs into jojen so that he can hook up with meera?

Can never have to much incest!
 

Ikael

Member
What makes this "obvious"?

If I remember correctly, on the Melissandre chapter she admited to be confused since she prayed to R'llor in order to show her Azor Azai, yet the flames "only showed Jon Snow" (instead of Stannis, which Mel believed to be Azor Azai).
 

Amir0x

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
Ned and Lyanna are Jon's parents. It is known

God now I just want to say "It is not known."

That one part where her bloodriders were arguing over who would get to fuck this one dude and the one chick was all

"Hey bitch you look like a boy you flatchested whore. He does not like boys... it is known." And the response was "He does not like to sleep with cows the size of dragons, you fucking cocksucker. It is known."

I was dying laughing.

ItAintEasyBeingCheesy said:
The cave's thing got me the most..... dragons, wyrms. I dont think it was slavers though.

Yup. Definitely dragon-related. I would say we're going to see the return of Ice Dragons soon as well in force, and it'll explain the winters up north in some fashion. Just like the Fire Dragons/Firewyrms will explain the cataclysm in Valyria.
 

tino

Banned
I have been thinking, the GRRM outfit is one of the best troll cosplay custom. Can you guys help me to find that pair of framing suspender and that hat thing?
 

Pollux

Member
wow, its been a while.

finished reading the book, and I'll be honest, I think a lot of y'all forget that this was supposed to be the second half of the same book, so the fact that it does seem a lot like AFFC makes sense.

Also, yes its was ridiculous that we basically had to wait 11 for one book, but hey, it is what it is.

I'll put more thoughts up later.
 

iammeiam

Member
I can't shake this truly horrible theory that's been lurking in the back of my mind since Penny talked about her family history: Can someone tell me if the timeline would allow for Penny's Big Person mother being Tysha?

Not suggesting Tyrion's her dad or anything, just that the answer to "Where do whores go?" has been staring him in the face for most of DwD.

It would be pretty ridiculous, but, well, I keep thinking about it.
 

Amir0x

Banned
there are such huge events in Dance with Dragons. After finishing it it's all the more amazing to me people think it's all just running in place. Catastrophic character events occur. I don't even need to mention Jon's story.
 

Dresden

Member
iammeiam said:
I can't shake this truly horrible theory that's been lurking in the back of my mind since Penny talked about her family history: Can someone tell me if the timeline would allow for Penny's Big Person mother being Tysha?
That dwarf fetish had to be satisfied somewhere, I guess.
 

Pollux

Member
iammeiam said:
I can't shake this truly horrible theory that's been lurking in the back of my mind since Penny talked about her family history: Can someone tell me if the timeline would allow for Penny's Big Person mother being Tysha?

Not suggesting Tyrion's her dad or anything, just that the answer to "Where do whores go?" has been staring him in the face for most of DwD.

It would be pretty ridiculous, but, well, I keep thinking about it.
I don't think so, If I recall Penny knew her father. And that wasn't Tyrion. Although I wouldn't put it past GRRM to have Tysha find another dwarf to claim to be the father, especially after what happened to her. Possible but not likely, but this is GRRM we're talking about.
 

RyanDG

Member
iammeiam said:
I can't shake this truly horrible theory that's been lurking in the back of my mind since Penny talked about her family history: Can someone tell me if the timeline would allow for Penny's Big Person mother being Tysha?

Not suggesting Tyrion's her dad or anything, just that the answer to "Where do whores go?" has been staring him in the face for most of DwD.

It would be pretty ridiculous, but, well, I keep thinking about it.

Don't think the timelines work... Tyrion was born around 274 AL... He was in his early teens (13-14 ish) with the whole Tysha situation. That puts that situation around 287-290 AL... So unless Penny is 10-13, it won't work. I know she came off as young, but I don't think she was supposed to be THAT young.
 

Amir0x

Banned
RyanDG said:
Don't think the timelines work... Tyrion was born around 274 AL... He was in his early teens (13-14 ish) with the whole Tysha situation. That puts that situation around 287-290 AL... So unless Penny is 10-13, it won't work. I know she came off as young, but I don't think she was supposed to be THAT young.

He noted Penny seemed to be almost 18.
 

Pollux

Member
Amir0x said:
He noted Penny seemed to be almost 18.


RyanDG said:
Don't think the timelines work... Tyrion was born around 274 AL... He was in his early teens (13-14 ish) with the whole Tysha situation. That puts that situation around 287-290 AL... So unless Penny is 10-13, it won't work. I know she came off as young, but I don't think she was supposed to be THAT young.


So that settles that.

My one question out of this whole thing: Is there any way that Aegon actually is the REAL Aegon?
 

Dresden

Member
zmoney said:
So that settles that.

My one question out of this whole thing: Is there any way that Aegon actually is the REAL Aegon?
I doubt it. Kid got his head smashed supposedly, so unless Varys pulled a switcheroo all those years ago... odds say that he's either a fake or just some bastard with a drop of Targ blood.
 
Dresden said:
I doubt it. Kid got his head smashed supposedly, so unless Varys pulled a switcheroo all those years ago... odds say that he's either a fake or just some bastard with a drop of Targ blood.
I don't know, personally I didn't find believing him to be real hard. There's been little evidence of Varys being off his game before, so the story of him switching Aegon out with another baby at the sign of defeat is not at all unbelievable, secret passage escapades are what Varys does best after all.
 

Pollux

Member
Dresden said:
I doubt it. Kid got his head smashed supposedly, so unless Varys pulled a switcheroo all those years ago... odds say that he's either a fake or just some bastard with a drop of Targ blood.
But didn't it say that Varys switched the kids?
 

bengraven

Member
Anyone else cringe and expect Penny and Tyrion to fuck at some point?

zmoney said:
But didn't it say that Varys switched the kids?

Yes, Varys bought a dead street urchin child in Flea Bottom and switched the bodies.

Aegon IS Aegon.
 
bengraven said:
Anyone else cringe and expect Penny and Tyrion to fuck at some point?



Yes, Varys bought a dead street urchin child in Flea Bottom and switched the bodies.

Aegon IS Aegon.
Who is the mummer's dragon then?
 
bengraven said:
Anyone else cringe and expect Penny and Tyrion to fuck at some point?



Yes, Varys bought a dead street urchin child in Flea Bottom and switched the bodies.

Aegon IS Aegon.
A cloth dragon on a pole doesn't scream authentic to me. And IIRC the Red Priest with Victarion had a vision of a false dragon too.

Aegon is probably false, and even if he isn't Martin is clearly setting him up to fail. Varys' speech about how he was raised to be the perfect king screamed doomed to me.
 

bengraven

Member
Salazar said:
Or someone to make them fuck as entertainment.

Doesn't someone try and make them do it?

At least afterwards Tyrion wouldn't be racked with self-guilt.

Yes, I only care about Tyrion's well being. haha
 

bengraven

Member
elrechazao said:
Who is the mummer's dragon then?

I said it earlier in other thread.

Varys - mummer
Aegon - dragon

Varys is protecting Aegon and putting him on the throne. It's not a fake dragon, it's a dragon protected by a mummer.
 
bengraven said:
I said it earlier in other thread.

Varys - mummer
Aegon - dragon

Varys is protecting Aegon and putting him on the throne. It's not a fake dragon, it's a dragon protected by a mummer.
Possible I suppose.
 
bengraven said:
I said it earlier in other thread.

Varys - mummer
Aegon - dragon

Varys is protecting Aegon and putting him on the throne. It's not a fake dragon, it's a dragon protected by a mummer.

A cloth dragon on a pole together with Dany being called Slayer of Lies is an image that says more than that the dragon is backed by Varys.
 

bengraven

Member
Basileus777 said:
A cloth dragon on a pole in together with Dany being called Slayer of Lies is an image that says more than that the dragon is backed by Varys.

But Illyrio made a point to talk to Tyrion about Varys's past and experiences as a mummer.

The warlock was setting Dany up to mistrust Aegon, though it is her nephew.
 
bengraven said:
But Illyrio made a point to talk to Tyrion about Varys's past and experiences as a mummer.
We knew varys was a mummer since cok, I just don't think it's conclusive 1. that the prophecy from quaithe is even true, 2. that it even refers to aegon, and 3. even if it does, that it's saying that he's a fake aegon or that he's varys' aegon.
 
bengraven said:
Anyone else cringe and expect Penny and Tyrion to fuck at some point?



Yes, Varys bought a dead street urchin child in Flea Bottom and switched the bodies.

Aegon IS Aegon.

We don't know for sure. Dang dreamed of a paper dragon, which has generally been thought to be an imposter Aegon. In AFFC Cersei suggests Rhaegar visited brothels often, according to rumors at least. It could be possible he had a silver haired bastard who Varys later stole. He'll, some people thin Varys is a Targ bastard as well
 
PhoenixDark said:
We don't know for sure. Dang dreamed of a paper dragon, which has generally been thought to be an imposter Aegon. In AFFC Cersei suggests Rhaegar visited brothels often, according to rumors at least. It could be possible he had a silver haired bastard who Varys later stole. He'll, some people thin Varys is a Targ bastard as well
I wouldn't be surprised if varys is a blackfyre of some kind, born in the free cities.
 
There's a ton of people from Lys with Valyrian features. I don't think it would be particularly difficult to find a child with Aegon's appearance. Though it is telling that we learn that the Blackfyre line has died out specifically in the male line. And I kind of doubt Martin had Illyio tell us about Serra for no reason at all.
 

bengraven

Member
Okay, here's another question and another theory:

Question: will we see more dragons? The dragon beneath Winterfell or the dragon beneath Dragonstone, both of which were hinted at? Or others, maybe in Asshai?

Theory: one of Dany's dragons is female. She won't know until Tyrion shows up, the expert on dragon anatomy.

"Um, your Grace, don't you mean 'Droga'?"


PhoenixDark said:
We don't know for sure. Dang dreamed of a paper dragon, which has generally been thought to be an imposter Aegon. In AFFC Cersei suggests Rhaegar visited brothels often, according to rumors at least. It could be possible he had a silver haired bastard who Varys later stole. He'll, some people thin Varys is a Targ bastard as well

It's definitely a possibility as well. But wouldn't he just declare him one of the bastards? Would he really need to call him Aegon?

Unless he was trying to prevent the backlash against another "blackfyre". You might be right.


Edit: also I don't think Jon would be protecting him if it wasn't the real Aegon. Since Jon obviously loved Rhaegar, he would want to protect his actual child. Even a bastard of Rhaegar's might not be good enough for Connington.
 

Piecake

Member
Basileus777 said:
There's a ton of people from Lys with Valyrian features. I don't think it would be particularly difficult to find a child with Aegon's appearance. Though it is telling that we learn that the Blackfyre line has died out specifically in the male line. And I kind of doubt Martin had Illyio tell us about Serra for no reason at all.

I think I would prefer it if Aegon turned out to be a pretender, either some young child that Varys bought that happened to have Targ features, or the son of Serra.

At first, I just found it a bit contrived that Aegon miraculously survived the sack and we just heard about him now. dont get me wrong, I like the character and his story arc, but I would like it a bit better if he turns out to be a pretender
 

Dresden

Member
bengraven said:
Edit: also I don't think Jon would be protecting him if it wasn't the real Aegon. Since Jon obviously loved Rhaegar, he would want to protect his actual child. Even a bastard of Rhaegar's might not be good enough for Connington.
He won't know any better if Varys doesn't tell him! Connington's just a piece on the board.
 
bengraven said:
Okay, here's another question and another theory:

Question: will we see more dragons? The dragon beneath Winterfell or the dragon beneath Dragonstone, both of which were hinted at? Or others, maybe in Asshai?

Theory: one of Dany's dragons is female. She won't know until Tyrion shows up, the expert on dragon anatomy.

"Um, your Grace, don't you mean 'Droga'?"




It's definitely a possibility as well. But wouldn't he just declare him one of the bastards? Would he really need to call him Aegon?

Unless he was trying to prevent the backlash against another "blackfyre". You might be right.


Edit: also I don't think Jon would be protecting him if it wasn't the real Aegon. Since Jon obviously loved Rhaegar, he would want to protect his actual child. Even a bastard of Rhaegar's might not be good enough for Connington.
Connington was exiled before aegon was born, or at best when he was a few weeks or so old most likely. He likely has no idea beyond Varys' word that this is aegon.
 
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