Harry Potter
Banned
Basileus777 said:
Westeros is a joke compared to the rest of the world.
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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Westeros is a joke compared to the rest of the world.
gburgess10
Member
cubicle47b said:
This is my ethical logic:
She freed these people, and she felt like she should support the freedmen who chose to follow her. But weren't these her children too, in Astapor? Just because they didn't follow her, doesn't make them any less her responsibility.
She condemned them to death, and sat there as if it had nothing to do with her- that Astapor had brought it on itself (she said as much). Free Astapor was doomed as soon as she established it- especially without her support.
Here is my tactical logic: 1. When the Yunkai'i began to threaten Astapor, they didn't have the sellswords yet. She could have ridden out to fight them, with a reliable chance of victory.
2. Tyrion and Quentyn describes how terribly inept the battalions of the Yunkai'i were, compared to the sellswords. Lots of infighting/rivalries, most of the infantry composed of unmotivated slaves (which, by the way, were extremely small in number since Dany had so recently taken all of their slaves back in ASOS).
3. If she had realized that she should join Astapor in their initial pre-emptive aggression against Yunkai (she scoffed at the butcher's initial plans to fight them, when really he knew what kinds of plans these guys were making. He was right.), other people would have been less likely to fuck with the badass that demolished Yunkai. Especially since there would be no other major city to fight her in the area/serve as a base of operations/supply food etc. to an army.
4. She would have gained a lot of riches from sacking Yunkai, and used their resources for trade.
5. A Queen needs an empire, not just a city-state. Adding Yunkai (populating it with her freedmen, much like Astapor) and Astapor as cities under her rule would have made her a much bigger problem to tackle.
6. But all she wanted was peace, and so she sat and twiddled her thumbs while the Yunkai'i gathered sellswords (bringing them on the long demon road march or sea-trip to Slaver's Bay) and trained new warriors.
7. This is much like what Lysa did. The time of engagement was crucial- her window of opportunity was there for a long while (at least two months of travel for the Yunkai to and from Volantis). But she failed to engage, and the war went out of her hands.
cubicle47b
Member
That's nice. I was laughing at the ridiculousness of you spitting twice in the face of a queen with 3 dragons who has captured 3 cities in quick succession and pointing out the difference in situations between two people you directly compared.
If she wanted a 3 city Slaver's Bay empire she shouldn't have abandoned Astapor in the first place and defeated Yunkai's army without sacking the city (this part was stupid regardless, people seem to forget that she made bad decisions in Storm too). That's where her problems started (as well as interrupting slave trade which made every other city from Qarth to Volantis hate her).
If she wanted a 3 city Slaver's Bay empire she shouldn't have abandoned Astapor in the first place and defeated Yunkai's army without sacking the city (this part was stupid regardless, people seem to forget that she made bad decisions in Storm too). That's where her problems started (as well as interrupting slave trade which made every other city from Qarth to Volantis hate her).
Eteric Rice
Member
KingK said:
Manderly is awesome.
I mean fuck, he fed the Freys their own kin in pies.
Thats some Cartman shit right there.
PhoenixDark
Banned
How does she defend Astapor while keeping Mereen under control?
Basileus777
Member
She has 8k unsullied doing basically nothing. She should have sacked Yunkai when she had the chance.PhoenixDark said:
gburgess10
Member
cubicle47b said:
Dragons she can't control, and by all accounts imprisoned at the time of the Astapori cries for help.
1. She freed Astapor through treachery (that is what it was). She left it because she intended to head to Pentos. Doesn't mean it wasn't doomed. She fucked up their lives, and didn't think of the consequences.
2. She defeated Yunkai'i by the treachery of sellswords. She should have taken hostages at least. Even Jaime knows to do that. How could Barristan not advise her in this? I guess they all still expected to be heading to Pentos.
3. She used the sewers to precipitate a slave uprising and allow her army in. Here she decided to stay and be a queen. So her entire goalset was changed- good adviors would have told her what I have typed out.
4. Astapor did try and tell her, but even then she thought she had cowed the Yunkai.
5. Ok, shes just a kid, she made all these mistakes. A kid who condemned thousands to death- I think she deserves a little spit to be talking down to someone who had been entreating her to join the correct course of action. Which she ignored. She was nothing impressive, and in an extremely weak position in that final meeting with the envoy.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Why did Bowen Marsh and his cronies pick that moment to shank Jon? Are they complete idiots? They are going to get torn apart by Tormund and the wildlings. The Watch only had like 200ish people at Castle Black at that point, right? Against Tormund's 80, hundreds of other wildings, a giant, and Ghost? They're fucked!
Basileus777
Member
Dresden said:
Yeah, but it still doesn't change how stupid it was considering they are outnumbered by the wildlings. Hell, it'd be a miracle if Marsh and the conspirators themselves survive very long. They should have just let Jon leave and then label him a traitor.
gburgess10
Member
Zefah said:
They couldn't let him ride out with the wildlings. If he had ridden out, a large part of the watch would have gone to Hardhome as he commanded.
And so they would not have prevented what they wanted to prevent: the madness of marching to Hardhome, and a LC of the watch leading wildlings in war interfering in the kingdoms.
Basileus777 said:
I'm pretty sure that Bowen will live- they have all those hostages man. Jon is dead- nothing the wildings can do. Doubt they will start pointless bloodshed with their sons on the line.
And they will know this Marsh mofo will kill their kids without any hesitation. Maybe even blame Jon on them.
cubicle47b
Member
That's nice to think she deserves to be spit on. I'm saying it's ridiculous you think you'd have the balls to do it once, let alone twice (I would have fed you to my fucking dragons). All this extra detail you keep throwing in is pointless.
This whole argument started because people believe a girl who conquered 3 cities in Storm (but completely fucked up how she handled all 3 outside of conquering them) was regressing in Dance by completely fucking up. She played 'free the slaves' in Storm and thousands died because of it. She played 'queen of Mereen' in Dance and thousands died.
This whole argument started because people believe a girl who conquered 3 cities in Storm (but completely fucked up how she handled all 3 outside of conquering them) was regressing in Dance by completely fucking up. She played 'free the slaves' in Storm and thousands died because of it. She played 'queen of Mereen' in Dance and thousands died.
gburgess10
Member
cubicle47b said:
Perhaps I personally would not have.
But that lowly envoy/former slave from Astapor found it within himself to do it. If I were in the same circumstances, with the same history, and perhaps relatives in Astapor.......What is life without family and the community that makes it whole?
Basileus777
Member
I'm sure the hostages will come into play, but I think the Night's Watch is doomed. Wildlings, Stannis' men, and the Others...in the long run Marsh was a fool.gburgess10 said:
3/4 of the Watch would have followed him? Based on what?ItAintEasyBeinCheesy said:
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy
it's 4th of July in my asshole
He had just announced he was going to "war" with the Bolton's and 3/4 of the Night Watch would have followed him.
lol where the thing gone.
lol where the thing gone.
cubicle47b
Member
Basileus777 said:
Bowen showed he was a fool throughout the entire book. I'm not so sure that any of the conspirators live because they did it in front of a mob and I doubt they expect to or they wouldn't have done it there. If Jon actually dies from his wounds, there's no way this alliance stays together.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I definitely view Jon's "death" as a way to get him out of the lord commander position. I was really disappointed when he got chosen by his brothers and then later turned down Stannis's offer. I'm glad he should be able to get out of his role in the next book, assuming he continues to live as a human.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I don't think the hostages will provide any leverage now. The NW simply won't have the time to rally any meaningful response if Tormund decided to defend Jon and fight. The wildings could kill everyone if they so chose. Marsh's actions make very little sense. On one hand Jon clearly ruined whatever their first plan was; I'm guessing they planned to kill Jon in some "accidential" fashion beyond the Wall during the Hardholme mission. His decision to change course and break his vows forced Marsh to speed up their time table, resulting in a sloppy assassination that could have easily gone wrong.
Why not send an assassin with Jon to Winterfell, and plan on sabotaging the Hardholme mission somehow.
Why not send an assassin with Jon to Winterfell, and plan on sabotaging the Hardholme mission somehow.
cubicle47b
Member
I love how an assassination became plot armor for the person being assassinated.
PhoenixDark
Banned
If Jon survives he's STILL a member of the NW. They serve until death. He'll no doubt be demoted, but he'll still be stuck on the wall; for some reason people think he'll just be able to leave, rally the north, fall in love with Dany, find out his parents' identities, then sit on the Iron Throne for happily ever after.
If Martin decides to revive him...his body would probably still be dead. Despite the Victarion case, I don't believe Melisandre can bring a dead person back to life; a stab in the gut and between the shoulder blades are fatal in a medieval setting. Unless I'm missing something, Varymyr would die in a human body, warg into a beast, then warg into a brand new body. So even if Jon comes back to life, the Jon we know is most likely gone.
If Martin decides to revive him...his body would probably still be dead. Despite the Victarion case, I don't believe Melisandre can bring a dead person back to life; a stab in the gut and between the shoulder blades are fatal in a medieval setting. Unless I'm missing something, Varymyr would die in a human body, warg into a beast, then warg into a brand new body. So even if Jon comes back to life, the Jon we know is most likely gone.
gburgess10 said:
Yes, I did actually, though that can't apply to Meereen itself, and most don't have the supplies to journey all the way to another city just to be bought.
Anyway, there was also that guy who had his mother raped by Dany's sellswords during the sack, which she pardoned, probably some of the people who kept getting their livestock and children burned, and the pit fighters. Plenty of people hated her simply for imposing on their culture.
gburgess10 said:
She can't control them insofar as she cannot tell them to not eat any children. Insofar as pointing at someone and telling them to wreak havok, she's got that down. Also the first time they asked, they weren't imprisoned.
gburgess10 said:
This really isn't wholly her fault. The only reason that Astapor is in conflict with Yunkai is because the Butcher King, who refused to listen to Dany and when she told him to just drop it. Astapor would have been left alone otherwise. She was frustrated with the whole aspect of Astapor because she didn't save anyone in the end, they just reversed roles. The owners became slaves and the slaves became owners. And I don't know where you are getting the idea that Cleon did this for the benefit of Dany. I thought it was pretty clear that the idea of freeing the slaves, especially since he is a slaver himself, was a pretext to get more slaves. With her being against the idea of slavery itself, so why would she help the exslaves, current slavers now?
Second, do you not see that what you are suggesting is making another Astapor out of meereen. The major reason she is staying in meereen is because Astapor went to shit the moment she left. What do you think will happen to meereen the moment she leaves it? The only way she could have saved Astapor would be to condemn meereen.
You do realize that she had none of this information from anyone before it was too late, right? She only knew of them gathering sellswords when she heard that the butcher king was defeated by them, and, like I said, the Butcher King was hardly doing this for her sake.
Like I said, the entire thing was that she never wanted to start an empire in Essoss. That was never the plan. She simply wanted to get some training in ruling because she realized she simply couldn't go out and conquer shit and call it a day. No matter what she did, whether she went out to conquer Yunkai or stayed and tried to rule, thousands of people, including slaves she had chosen to save would have died. There was never any winning this peacefully, and her naivete comes from not realizing that. But conquering the rest of Essoss, even if what you suggested worked, would not have achieved her real objective: Becoming a peaceful queen.
No, they are making sure nothing is happening. She said herself she came to regret not sacking Yunkai when she had the chance, but said that if she sent out her unsullied against Astapor or Yunkai, then she'd be defenseless in her own city.Basileus777 said:
Eteric Rice
Member
PhoenixDark said:
Didn't Beric get nearly sheared in half by Sandor and survive because of the red God?
A few daggers won't stop Mel from keeping Jon alive if she wants.
Eteric Rice said:
And he lost even more of himself doing so, so like he said, he won't be the same as he was.
Though my personal belief is that he warged into Ghost's body. I only base this on his last thought being "Ghost.." and the Varamyr prologue chapter, but I think it's the best guess.
Man, this book was worth the wait. Finished yesterday after 5 days reading.
I don´t agree with all of the directions Martin took and I´m disappointed with some of the POVs being featured more than others.
Nobody will read this wall´o´text, but it helps me clear my own thoughts.
I might be one of the few people who LOVED Daeny in all the previous books, but in Dance I felt Martin made her go full retard. "Derp, I know that I allowed people to sell themselves into slavery in the first city I sacked, but for some reason I won´t have any slaves in Meeren for some reason and make everyone hate me! Derp, I really want to fuck this one guy! Oh Martin, err, Daario, fuck my cunt! Hurr, should I have people spy on the potential Harpy to see who he meets with and who they meet in turn, oh no, I´ll just let this conspiracy group kil mah people." Good thing that in the end Drogon decided to make things interesting again. Daeny seems to think best without hair. Desert Daeny>city Daeny.
Quentin Martell, well, now that was a waste of time, wasn´t it? His chapters weren´t bad at all, but the space could be used for other people.
Victarion is SO GOOD! Yes, I need capslock. Now he has a powerfist and a mage? Awesome, but he´ll get fucked over.
Melisandre, I hate her. Either she´s the worst seer (and claims to be the best) or she´s a cover agent for the Stranger/unknown god oppossing R´hollor. Eurgh.
Stannis can´t be dead, I have to re-read Dance to be sure, but the raven from the Wall about Karstark´s betrayal should have reached Deadmotte before the Bravoosi banker, right, so I doubt Stannis just run into hidden knives. Ramsay is a liar and Reek chapters made me feel like throwing up, Martin has a wretched imagination.
Davos, hm, nice cliffhanger D:
Jon, heh, haven´t been a big Jon fan because he seemed to be groomed to become Prince Charming with a twist (oh noes, a facial scar!), but he´s a true son of Ned Stark, making good but retarded decisions, actual relations aside. Who would´ve guessed he´d get stabbed? I doubt he´s dead, though. With ony Clydas as a maester a stomach wound and a not outright fatal stab in the back would probably kill him, anyway, but there´s stil the red sorceress IF she really serves R´hollor. The fourth stab could´ve been the head or maybe Ghost got his throat slashed, who knows, so he might be dead. Can´t have a fan favourite survive.
Ser Robert Strong, man, that alone made Cersei chapters worth it.
Wun Wun should take the black as Jon´s personal bodyguard IF he survives.
Not enough BRAN! I NEED to know about Sansa and Littlefinger´s current doings!
Jaime can´t be dead, IMO, I wonder what he´ll have to do to get Stoneheart not to kill him.
Arya is Arya and her arc so far should be hard to top for any other character besides Daeny.
PS: Still no real war with the Others, will there ever be a real one or will the dragons Deux Ex Machina them away in the end?
I don´t agree with all of the directions Martin took and I´m disappointed with some of the POVs being featured more than others.
Nobody will read this wall´o´text, but it helps me clear my own thoughts.
I might be one of the few people who LOVED Daeny in all the previous books, but in Dance I felt Martin made her go full retard. "Derp, I know that I allowed people to sell themselves into slavery in the first city I sacked, but for some reason I won´t have any slaves in Meeren for some reason and make everyone hate me! Derp, I really want to fuck this one guy! Oh Martin, err, Daario, fuck my cunt! Hurr, should I have people spy on the potential Harpy to see who he meets with and who they meet in turn, oh no, I´ll just let this conspiracy group kil mah people." Good thing that in the end Drogon decided to make things interesting again. Daeny seems to think best without hair. Desert Daeny>city Daeny.
Quentin Martell, well, now that was a waste of time, wasn´t it? His chapters weren´t bad at all, but the space could be used for other people.
Victarion is SO GOOD! Yes, I need capslock. Now he has a powerfist and a mage? Awesome, but he´ll get fucked over.
Melisandre, I hate her. Either she´s the worst seer (and claims to be the best) or she´s a cover agent for the Stranger/unknown god oppossing R´hollor. Eurgh.
Stannis can´t be dead, I have to re-read Dance to be sure, but the raven from the Wall about Karstark´s betrayal should have reached Deadmotte before the Bravoosi banker, right, so I doubt Stannis just run into hidden knives. Ramsay is a liar and Reek chapters made me feel like throwing up, Martin has a wretched imagination.
Davos, hm, nice cliffhanger D:
Jon, heh, haven´t been a big Jon fan because he seemed to be groomed to become Prince Charming with a twist (oh noes, a facial scar!), but he´s a true son of Ned Stark, making good but retarded decisions, actual relations aside. Who would´ve guessed he´d get stabbed? I doubt he´s dead, though. With ony Clydas as a maester a stomach wound and a not outright fatal stab in the back would probably kill him, anyway, but there´s stil the red sorceress IF she really serves R´hollor. The fourth stab could´ve been the head or maybe Ghost got his throat slashed, who knows, so he might be dead. Can´t have a fan favourite survive.
Ser Robert Strong, man, that alone made Cersei chapters worth it.
Wun Wun should take the black as Jon´s personal bodyguard IF he survives.
Not enough BRAN! I NEED to know about Sansa and Littlefinger´s current doings!
Jaime can´t be dead, IMO, I wonder what he´ll have to do to get Stoneheart not to kill him.
Arya is Arya and her arc so far should be hard to top for any other character besides Daeny.
PS: Still no real war with the Others, will there ever be a real one or will the dragons Deux Ex Machina them away in the end?
glad im not the only one who likes victarion
like hes obviously a piece of shit
but ever since that chapter in affc where he's fighting on the ships in full plate with his axe, hes been nothing but a hardass
straight up stomping people
so yeah some things
-danny has the flux? i mean it was described exactly like the sickness of the fat slave master who bought tyrion. i dont see why people think miscarriage tbh, nor do i get why her having a miscarriage would be important in reality. nor do i get why her having the flux would be important either, unless she gets really sick or something. really didnt like that last chapter much. the detailed descriptions of her shitting were hilarious though
-tyrion clearly seems to be a targ, yeah? mismatched eyes (cos half and half), tywin hating him, tywin's reaction to having tyrion be called his real son, the stories about aerys loving a cousin of tywin's, etc. cant all be red herrings can they? this would give us our three heads as well, if you consider jon a targ too
-is it just me or is bran being set up to be an ally of the great other or whatever? i swear in one of the bran chapters the crow-tree bloke kept going on and on about how darkness was his friend and shit. and the surprisingly awesome chapter when coldhands says "i am your monster, brandon stark" or w/e, and all the birds start yelling YOURS, YOURS.
also yea, aegon is pretty clearly a fake imo
the mummer's dragon interpretation of him being a real targ but protected by varys is way more laboured than him being the mummer's dragon simply because varys invented him and he's a fake
like hes obviously a piece of shit
but ever since that chapter in affc where he's fighting on the ships in full plate with his axe, hes been nothing but a hardass
straight up stomping people
so yeah some things
-danny has the flux? i mean it was described exactly like the sickness of the fat slave master who bought tyrion. i dont see why people think miscarriage tbh, nor do i get why her having a miscarriage would be important in reality. nor do i get why her having the flux would be important either, unless she gets really sick or something. really didnt like that last chapter much. the detailed descriptions of her shitting were hilarious though
-tyrion clearly seems to be a targ, yeah? mismatched eyes (cos half and half), tywin hating him, tywin's reaction to having tyrion be called his real son, the stories about aerys loving a cousin of tywin's, etc. cant all be red herrings can they? this would give us our three heads as well, if you consider jon a targ too
-is it just me or is bran being set up to be an ally of the great other or whatever? i swear in one of the bran chapters the crow-tree bloke kept going on and on about how darkness was his friend and shit. and the surprisingly awesome chapter when coldhands says "i am your monster, brandon stark" or w/e, and all the birds start yelling YOURS, YOURS.
also yea, aegon is pretty clearly a fake imo
the mummer's dragon interpretation of him being a real targ but protected by varys is way more laboured than him being the mummer's dragon simply because varys invented him and he's a fake
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Duki said:
One interesting thing that links Tyrion, Jon and Dany. All of their mothers died giving birth to them, well assuming Jon's mother was Lyanna. Could link Tyrion as a Targ, although I'm not sure I like that.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
jett said:
Black people.
sooperkool
Member
jett said:
Whats in Casterly Rock? We've never had any viewpoint there either. I'd be raiding them to fund my war machine.
Sirpopopop
Member
If Tyrion was a Targ, and Tywin knew about it, I think Tywin would have killed him with zero hesitation.
With that said, I would love a Jaime/Cersei secret Targ twist. Pulpy fun.
Not to mention it would bring things full circle with the great irony that GRRM seems to be perpetuating throughout this entire series regarding Tyrion, and made explicit with Genna Lannister.
He is Tywin's true son. Right down to being a closet romantic, with a love for prostitutes.
With that said, I would love a Jaime/Cersei secret Targ twist. Pulpy fun.
Not to mention it would bring things full circle with the great irony that GRRM seems to be perpetuating throughout this entire series regarding Tyrion, and made explicit with Genna Lannister.
He is Tywin's true son. Right down to being a closet romantic, with a love for prostitutes.
gburgess10
Member
Generic said:
It does apply to Mereen. Anyone who wishes to sell himself into slavery in Mereen can do so (there just cannot be any slavery in the city itself). As proof, refer to when Dany meets Xaro. He argues with her about slavery, mentions an old friend miserable in the city, to which she responds "Buy him, then." Clearly, her decree from Astapor was valid here. She is Queen of Mereen, not Astapor, after all.
That guy was a Mereeneese, not a freedmen. His father's slaves had killed/raped his family- not the doing of Dany's sellswords.
One child burned- not a regular occurrence.
The farmers were Mereeneese, and were paid for their losses.
The pit fighters weren't exactly anyone in a position of any power, and did not hold a particular grudge against her. Sure they might have been upset about the pits closing, but I don't think they were betrayal level upset. They did after all, assist in her initial assulat on Mereen. They wanted freedom.
So how does that refute my argument again? It supports it, in fact.....
What? I don't really understand what you wrote here. The one time she used them in Astapor was a one-time thing. I doubt they will just start attacking an army (and just the enemy army) unless they are given a motivation- like Drogon is attacking, and so they copy him. Otherwise, don't rely on them in anyway. Even Barristan wonders if they will join the battle against the Yunkai'i when it comes down to it, and whether they will attack Dany's troops, or if they will differentiate.
No that is not the only reason. The very existence of Astapor was a threat to all slaver cities, just like the existence of Dany is a problem to everyone involved in the slave trade (precipitating the war).
As soon as she established Astapor- the other slavers would have to crush it. Otherwise their slaves might start having ideas- hence why Volantis is all up in arms against Dany.
I never said Cleon had the benefits of Dany at heart- but he knew the danger Astapor was in. The Yunkai'i would never leave them alone, especially considering how defenseless they were.
I never said make another Astapor in Mereen. She could have left Mereen in the hands of the freedmen guards and maybe 2k Unsullied, commanded by Barristan.
Then she could have left with her sellswords and the rest of the Unsullied to crush Yunkai. To return after victory. How does that make Mereen into Astapor?
As soon as Xaro left her with a message of war, she could have seen what was up. At that time, the Butcher King was undefeated and she could have joined him against Yunkai, still.
I said this as well. But she changed her plan once she decided to stay. Her previous intentions meant nothing once that happened.
If she had conquered Yunkai: No pale mare, no massacre at Astapor, and only the Yunkai warmongers would die.
Now: All of Astapor destroyed, everyone massacred, pale mare killing in and out of Mereen, the Yunkai leaders and their slave armies, and sellswords will all die. And so will more of her soilders now that they have to fight an army that is much more capable than it was months back.
If they don't kill the Yunkai now, all of Mereen will be sacked and enslaved once the Volantenes arrive.
It is clear her "peace" was a sham that will lead to more death, than some hard but correct decisions would have.
Take hostages with her. And defenseless? The Sons of the Harpy are barely in number to kill 10-20 freedmen/Unsullied through treachery every night. 2k Unsullied and the freedmen city guards would be more than enough to keep Mereen in line. Really, who else does she need to defend Mereen against except these internal dissenters? Only the Yunkai'i (as they are the base from which everyone else gathers and deploys).
elrechazado
Banned
vaes tolorro is the dead city in the red wastes that dany and her tiny khalasar rest in before going to qarth. Summer isles is full of hot women, good archers, and feathers. And lots of sex.jett said:
elrechazado
Banned
summer islanders give it for free bro, that's what the gods made us forzmoney said:
LetsGoKiting
Banned
Just finished the book. It feels like we're only a little past halfway.
My thoughts after:
Dany's storyline seems like it'll be a while till she goes to Westeros. She will at least go to Volantis, and who know's where after before returning home. One book to convince her to return. Another for the actually traveling.
Jon will be free from the Night Watch and have him in the North away from the Wall. I think he will unite the North after the Boltons are dead.
I don't think there is anyone clever in King's Landing to know what Varys is up to. The southron lords are screwed.
Littlefinger's plan is to become King. He plans on ruling the Vale, the Riverlands through Harrenhal, and the North through Sansa. From there, who knows what his next part is.
What's Sam's purpose in the story? Or that maester that left Oldtown for Dany? How will lady Stoneheart fit into all of this? Out of all the things going on, Bran's story is the only one ready to fight the white walkers. There's a lot story lines and it seems like many are irrelevant.
Here's a list of the remaining pov characters:
Aeron Greyjoy
Areo Hotah
Arianne Martell
Arya Stark
Asha Greyjoy
Barristan Selmy
Bran Stark
Brienne of Tarth
Cersei Lannister
Daenerys Targaryen
Davos Seaworth
Griffin Roost
Jaime Lannister
Jon Snow
Melisandre
Samwell Tarly
Sansa Stark
Theon Greyjoy
Tyrion Lannister
Victarion Greyjoy
My thoughts after:
Dany's storyline seems like it'll be a while till she goes to Westeros. She will at least go to Volantis, and who know's where after before returning home. One book to convince her to return. Another for the actually traveling.
Jon will be free from the Night Watch and have him in the North away from the Wall. I think he will unite the North after the Boltons are dead.
I don't think there is anyone clever in King's Landing to know what Varys is up to. The southron lords are screwed.
Littlefinger's plan is to become King. He plans on ruling the Vale, the Riverlands through Harrenhal, and the North through Sansa. From there, who knows what his next part is.
What's Sam's purpose in the story? Or that maester that left Oldtown for Dany? How will lady Stoneheart fit into all of this? Out of all the things going on, Bran's story is the only one ready to fight the white walkers. There's a lot story lines and it seems like many are irrelevant.
Here's a list of the remaining pov characters:
Aeron Greyjoy
Areo Hotah
Arianne Martell
Arya Stark
Asha Greyjoy
Barristan Selmy
Bran Stark
Brienne of Tarth
Cersei Lannister
Daenerys Targaryen
Davos Seaworth
Griffin Roost
Jaime Lannister
Jon Snow
Melisandre
Samwell Tarly
Sansa Stark
Theon Greyjoy
Tyrion Lannister
Victarion Greyjoy
gburgess10 said:
Which is going to be bullshit but I expect Thorne will be the new commander. Criminals stay criminals I guess. Two commanders both backstabbed. Honestly I hope Jon says fuck 'em after this. When you do the right thing and the people you're trying to save, backstab you, fuck them.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Jarmel said:
He sent every person loyal to him away, he surrounded himself with people who disagreed with everything he did and never listened to them or met them halfway, and then he publicly announced that he was running off to break his oaths and asked who would join him.
PhoenixDark
Banned
So how do you guys see the next phase of the war for Westeros playing out? With Cersei back in charge, I can't help but think she'll distrust the Tyrells greatly but realize she still needs them. Jaime is lost, and he has the largest Lannister army far away in the Riverlands. So Cersei will truly be unable to casually throw away the Tyrell alliance, nor could she remove them from the council.
Meanwhile "Aegon" and Connington are about to siege Storm's End. If they succeed, their rebellion goes from a group of sellswords to a respected force. If Dorne were to declare for him, their combined force would equal around 60k men; and why wouldn't Dorne support Aegon: Doran has no reason to think Aegon, who would be his nephew, is a fraud. Plus he has a daughter to marry to him. The only thing I wonder about is Nymeria Sand: will she arrive in King's Landing before Doran hears of the Targ prince? Given how cautious Doran is, he might not dare allying with Aegon.
Then you have the Vale, completely untouched by war. Littlefinger means to marry Sansa Stark to the heir of the Vale in order to solidify his position, and place Winterfell in his grasp. But with Stannis on the verge of a Northern alliance and Rickon Stark soon to be found/revealed, Littlefinger's house of cards could easily fall.
Meanwhile "Aegon" and Connington are about to siege Storm's End. If they succeed, their rebellion goes from a group of sellswords to a respected force. If Dorne were to declare for him, their combined force would equal around 60k men; and why wouldn't Dorne support Aegon: Doran has no reason to think Aegon, who would be his nephew, is a fraud. Plus he has a daughter to marry to him. The only thing I wonder about is Nymeria Sand: will she arrive in King's Landing before Doran hears of the Targ prince? Given how cautious Doran is, he might not dare allying with Aegon.
Then you have the Vale, completely untouched by war. Littlefinger means to marry Sansa Stark to the heir of the Vale in order to solidify his position, and place Winterfell in his grasp. But with Stannis on the verge of a Northern alliance and Rickon Stark soon to be found/revealed, Littlefinger's house of cards could easily fall.
Jarmel said:
He didn't say Jon was a terrible person. He said Jon was a terrible Commander. A good Lord Commander knows that what needs to be done and what can be done are not always the same thing. If you turn everyone against you by doing the right thing, you're a really moral man. But what good is a moral dead man, when he is no longer Lord Commander? If he was the only one holding together the alliance of Wildlings and men of the Night's Watch, all the more he should have thought about how to keep himself alive, in power, and generally well liked. Because if he dies, the entire plan starts to fall apart and he would have accomplished nothing.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
Agreed. He did what was neccessary to fight the upcoming war, but failed completely to communicate with his brothers. A little explanation and less ignoring his friends and sending them away would have helped. In that sense, he failed as a leader.Jarmel said:
Edit: beaten
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