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[tokkun]

Myrcella's coronation has nothing to do with king's landing. It has to do with dorne using her as a pawn. She gets crowned by doran in sunspear, boom.

Yeah.

Shit will go down once Mace Tyrell is named Regent. Dorne hates the Tyrell's, and it is already on the boiling point.

The real question is whether Martell declares for Myrcella, for Aegon (wed to Ariana), or if they will decide to break off the engagement to Tristan and wed Myrcella to Aegon with Prince Doran as Hand.

The latter would be the easiest path to victory, but leave the smallest reward for Dorne.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I don't want Cersei to die

 

[KingK]

I don't want Cersei to die

I do. I want Arya to be the one to do it too, or Jaime.

My biggest disappointment of both AFFC and Dance is the lack of Arya (aka, the best character in the series). I feel like she really suffered from his decision to scrap the 5 year gap.

Also, if the show makes it up to Dance, I hope the actor for Theon is up to the task. His character arc throughout Dance was possibly the highlight of the book for me, and could easily win the show an Emmy if it's handled well on TV.

edit: I also have no idea what took this book so long to write. The situation in Merreen was apparently the biggest problem, but that plot line has gone no where. The only person who actually met up with Dany was Quentyn and then he died. I hope GRRM just kills off Dany. While I don't hate her, I've never really been a fan and he seems to be completely stuck on what to do with her.

 

[Jeels]

I'm avoiding spoilers, but I was wondering if the books are presented like the TV Shows in that even though they have their own individual motivations, the Starks are shown as much more..protagonist like while the others (the blonde family?) are shown more like villains?

 

[Piecake]

I'm avoiding spoilers, but I was wondering if the books are presented like the TV Shows in that even though they have their own individual motivations, the Starks are shown as much more..protagonist like while the others (the blonde family?) are shown more like villains?

The first book is mostly about the Starks, so the show reflects that. Later books, the cast expands and the focus shifts so you get a broader picture.

 

[Akuun]

I will die laughing if Shaggydog rips out Cersei's throat.

Throat is too fast. After all she's done... maybe a few limbs first.

 

[duckroll]

I'm avoiding spoilers

Then this is the wrong thread.

 

[sooperkool]

I just realized that Jeyne Westerling is still alive when last we heard and the Lady of Winterfell currently. Although she is in Lannister custody, I wonder what drama she could add to the mix as her parents have been pardoned and given significant land and power.

 

[LetsGoKiting]

Cersei will die next book. Then the book after will be about Jaime learning to be a dad akin to the film Big Daddy.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Cersei will die next book. Then the book after will be about Jaime learning to be a dad akin to the film Big Daddy.

Next book we learn Dany doesn't shit fire and blood.

 

[Sotha Sil]

I really, really hope Martin won't attempt a Jaime-like "now that she's broken, we can like/pity her" trick with Cersei. I'm sure it would work, but it would be so... predictable.

Still, it would be interesting to see Cersei become a wise power-behind-the-throne, making Varys's plan backfire.

 

[Pkaz01]

I really, really hope Martin won't attempt a Jaime-like "now that she's broken, we can like/pity her" trick with Cersei. I'm sure it would work, but it would be so... predictable.

Still, it would be interesting to see Cersei become a wise power-behind-the-throne, making Varys's plan backfire.

I really don't see how it would work, everything bad that happened to her so far she had it coming and did it to herself. I would not feel bad for her at all.

 

[Sotha Sil]

I really don't see how it would work, everything bad that happened to her so far she had it coming and did it to herself. I would not feel bad for her at all.

I don't know. I hated Jaime before Storm. Martin knows how to turn things around, though I'll agree that Cersei is clearly beyond redemption.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Given how Cersei's last chapter ends, with her joyous at the thought of revenge, I doubt she's changed. If anything, perhaps she'll be smarter and more cautious. She's surrounded by enemies, even moreso than before. I'd love to see her ruin Varys' fun

 

[Mineshaft_Gap]

Just an observation. I'm on the first Davos chapter of Storm of Swords so far.

They pretty much only made ONE female character so far in the series that's likable. It seems like George R. R. Martin doesn't see women and girls in a very positive light. Almost every female character is grating and unlikable in one way or another. It reeks of misogyny.

I don't expect the women of the series to be riding into battle and treated like first class citizens given the old timey setting.

Arya is awesome. Everyone else is just... well....

Catalyn: She seems cold and stuck up. Treats Jon Snow like crap which he doesn't deserve. It's not his fault he's a bastard. Always downtrodden and just... I don't know how to explain it. Granted she does have good reason to grieve it's just that she seems like a stuck up pain in the ass.

Sansa: I don't think I really need to explain this. She's unreasonable and just annoying especially in the first book. Her character does improve once she's put in real distress starting with the end of the first book.

Cersei: Vein and cruel. Backstabbing double dealing hypocrite *****. It really seems like a spiteful send up of all females on the part of Martin.

Lysa: ****ing insane. Breastfeeding her crazy halfwit son.

Dany: Not SO bad. Definitely some fan service going on here though. She basically gets raped by Khal Drogo and cries OH BUT THEN SHE LEARNED TO LIKE IT AND LOVE HIM AS HER HUSBAND. At least she isn't a helpless kitten (except when she is).

Rape is a common theme here. Again, unfortunately it fits with the setting the story takes place. Still. All the rape in combination with how the female characters are only there to show weakness in contrast to the quick witted and likable men.

Arya is the best female character, and maybe my favorite character in the series. I can relate most directly with her. Arya and Tyrion are the characters I'm rooting for. :3

 

[Sotha Sil]

Just an observation. I'm on the first Davos chapter of Storm of Swords so far.

Interesting discussion, but get out of this thread, now. The "Ok nerds..." thread is what you're looking for.

 

[brianjones]

im on storm of swords too

arya kind of annoys me with her constant running away and acting like a baby

she literally does nothing interesting in book 2 and the only reason shes tolerable in book 3 is because she lets us see beric dondarrion

 

[Pkaz01]

im on storm of swords too

arya kind of annoys me with her constant running away and acting like a baby

she literally does nothing interesting in book 2 and the only reason shes tolerable in book 3 is because she lets us see beric dondarrion

i loved her chapters in book 2. It really gave a perspective on how fucked up Gregor was and all the people in Harrenhal including Roose, then it gave us the awesome scenes with Jaqen and the intro the the faceless men

 

[Duki]

yeah the whole nearly get rescued OH WHOOPS NOPE SOMETHING ELSE HAPPENS GUESS YOURE STILL FUCKED got so tiring in books 2 and parts of 3

got jaqen and the brotherhood without banners out of it though, so thats something

where the f did i get sworn brotherhood from

 

[Mineshaft_Gap]

im on storm of swords too

arya kind of annoys me with her constant running away and acting like a baby

she literally does nothing interesting in book 2 and the only reason shes tolerable in book 3 is because she lets us see beric dondarrion

You're thinking of Sansa.

Arya slits a dudes throat and walks around ordering peoples deaths. She's one of the most sympathetic characters in the novels so far. She's vulnerable but incredibly strong of will and SMART. She's kind. She's very young but she does what she needs to do and is driven to action. She still has some innocence and youthful naivety but I find all these qualities very charming when rolled into one.

 

[Mineshaft_Gap]

I found most of the Bran chapters boring prior to Theon's taking over Winterfell. Some of them were interesting. The Maester giving a bit of background on magic and Bran's ability.

 

[Duki]

I found most of the Bran chapters boring prior to Theon's taking over Winterfell. Some of them were interesting. The Maester giving a bit of background on magic and Bran's ability.

he gets good when jojen and meera show up imo

cos jojen starts talking about shit

funny that it took like five books for him to get truly fascinating

 

[brianjones]

I found most of the Bran chapters boring prior to Theon's taking over Winterfell. Some of them were interesting. The Maester giving a bit of background on magic and Bran's ability.

eh i didnt care for brans stuff either

honestly jon's chapters were a huge bore in book 2 also

same with catelyn.. she's a terrible character

 

[Mineshaft_Gap]

When put in a bad situation:

Arya: FUCK THIS SHIT I'M OUTTA HERE. *stab*

Sansa: OH NO WHATEVER WILL I DO! *tremble*

Catalyn: Do what you will or don't. I'm a cold and withered widow. Everything has been taken from me so I don't care.

Dani: *male character comes to rescue her, or she demands one of her subjects to do something*

Cersie: I CAN LIE MY WAY OUT OF THIS SITUATION, OR BUY, OR FUCK, OR STAB YOU IN THE BACK.

 

[ZephyrFate]

When put in a bad situation:

Arya: FUCK THIS SHIT I'M OUTTA HERE. *stab*

Sansa: OH NO WHATEVER WILL I DO! *tremble*

Catalyn: Do what you will or don't. I'm a cold and withered widow. Everything has been taken from me so I don't care.

Dani: *male character comes to rescue her, or she demands one of her subjects to do something*

Cersie: I CAN LIE MY WAY OUT OF THIS SITUATION, OR BUY, OR FUCK, OR STAB YOU IN THE BACK.

Patriarchal society. You act as if the male characters aren't stereotypical or riddled with flaws.

 

[Levi]

GRRM clearly hates men. Craster, Ramsey, the Freys, Gregor -- many of his his male characters delight in violence and torture, will rape anyone, and are a bunch of turncloaks who will betray their sworn oaths at the drop of a hat. It reeks of misandry.

FFS.

Learn to fucking read, kid.

 

[QuiteWhittle]

GRRM clearly hates men. Craster, Ramsey, the Freys, Gregor -- many of his his male characters delight in violence and torture, will rape anyone, and are a bunch of turncloaks who will betray their sworn oaths at the drop of a hat. It reeks of misandry.

FFS.

Learn to fucking read, kid.

None of those characters are POV characters, though.

 

[raphier]

I don't want Cersei to die

She must! They've killed two of my favourite characters, it's time for others to suffer.

Spoiler

Ned and Robb. I really wished they would get their retaliation.

 

[yacobod]

The best part of ramsays letter at the end of adwd is that he wants his reek back, sick guy. What do you expect from a guy conceived by rape under a man strung up on a tree?

 

[Dresden]

<3 Sansa

 

[Binabik15]

We all know Daeny is going to marry Bran after he´s crowned king-beyond-the-wall, zombie Jon will join his zombie uncle/dad Benjen aka Coldhand to help Bran, Tormund holds the Wall after the Nightwatch´s treachery, Rickon is made Lord of Winterfell and King of the North, Sansa and Littlefinger declare for him and the Golden Company gets crushed by the Stormlords declaring for Robert´s true son Gendry who marries Arya to seal the peace between the King of the South and the King of the North. Dorne and the Reach tear each other apart. The Wall is brought down by Victarion´s little pipe which in reality is the Horn of Winter, but the Others are bathed in dragon fire.

Daeny re-assembled most of Drogo´s Khalassar before crossing the ocean to Westeros, but due to councel from the wizzard magister she goes to the Wall instead of starting a war.

The Bravosi banker was a man without face and stabbed Stannis and/or Roose Bolton dead.

Tyrion services sailors with his mouth until he arrives in Westeros to take out Cersei,the valonqar is Rickon or Euron, Sandor and Gregor will NOT fight, Jaime becomes High Septon and Brienne the leader of the Raibow Knights. The priests of R´hollor have a huge schism about who was right about his choice for AA Llightbringer Man and fight.

The promise Ned made to Lianna was to spare Benjen´s life after he seduced/raped Ashara Dayne when Ned wanted to behead him. Benjen took the black, Ned took Jon, I don´t know who his dad is. At that point it´s probably revealed that it IS Ned, but ghost being seperate from his packmates at birth makes that unlikey, he´s a different wolf.

Sorry for spoinling the series, guys.

For realz, though, I thought I knew Martin liked to do unexpected things and everything, but after Dance I have to admit to myself that you just can´t predict anything. The guy is a mastermind.

The wait for Winds is killing me. I hope it´s not five years again.

 

[sazabirules]

The wait for Winds is killing me. I hope it´s not five years again.

It will be. If there continued to be an NFL lockout we could have got the book finished much earlier. For the upcoming three years all we'll get are blog posts about the Jets/Giants and conventions. After that we'll get small updates.

 

[bengraven]

The best part of ramsays letter at the end of adwd is that he wants his reek back, sick guy. What do you expect from a guy conceived by rape under a man strung up on a tree?

He has to have Reek back if he wants to stay consistant. He wants to keep Theon mad and the key to this is Theon's constant fear that Ramsay will always haunt him.

My theory on him asking for his Reek back: if they have Theon, then Theon sees this, gets scared, realizes he can never get away from Ramsay and somehow turns on Stannis/Jon in order to crawl back to Ramsay with Jon's head, for example, and mutter "your reek did good, right? Please don't cut me, I did good this time! please don't lock me away please don't flay my skin, I was a good Reek I was, here's the bastard's head...".

 

[Mineshaft_Gap]

GRRM clearly hates men. Craster, Ramsey, the Freys, Gregor -- many of his his male characters delight in violence and torture, will rape anyone, and are a bunch of turncloaks who will betray their sworn oaths at the drop of a hat. It reeks of misandry.

FFS.

Learn to fucking read, kid.

Go fuck yourself you pathetic mouth breathing shit heel.

 

[Dresden]

^ calm down

The biggest problem with The George is that he's a two-teamer. You can't trust people like that.

 

[duckroll]

Go fuck yourself you pathetic mouth breathing shit heel.

Erm...

 

[Famassu]

It will be. If there continued to be an NFL lockout we could have got the book finished much earlier. For the upcoming three years all we'll get are blog posts about the Jets/Giants and conventions. After that we'll get small updates.

I'm pretty sure the 3,5-4 years per book estimate GRRM gave for the writing of the next two books is somewhat realistic, especially since now he doesn't have to juggle between two set of characters but can now advance with all of them at the same time (especially since many of the storylines could connecting again), and now that the Meereeneese knot should be abolished..

 

[Levi]

None of those characters are POV characters, though.

Brienne, Asha, Arya, Cersei, Sansa, Catelyn, Dany are, and they are all different people with different though processes and different priorities. I don't think it's fair to selectively pull from some sections of some POVs and decide that this reflects GRRM's "true feelings" and ignore others. I think GRRM does a decent job writing female characters. Just because his female characters aren't as cartoonishly strong as those from a Joss Whedon tv series doesn't mean the man hates women.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I'm pretty sure the 3,5-4 years per book estimate GRRM gave for the writing of the next two books is somewhat realistic, especially since now he doesn't have to juggle between two set of characters but can now advance with all of them at the same time (especially since many of the storylines could connecting again), and now that the Meereeneese knot should be abolished..

Is the Knot abolished though? Most of the people who set out to find Dany still haven't met her. There's going to be a huge battle, then of course the aftermath will be dealt with. It seems unlikely to me that she'll be headed to Westeros at the end of TWOW, or at least not in the fashion we assume. Perhaps she goes to the Wall while Aegon conquers Westeros without her.

 

[duckroll]

Is the Knot abolished though? Most of the people who set out to find Dany still haven't met her. There's going to be a huge battle, then of course the aftermath will be dealt with. It seems unlikely to me that she'll be headed to Westeros at the end of TWOW, or at least not in the fashion we assume. Perhaps she goes to the Wall while Aegon conquers Westeros without her.

The knot does not refer to a plot point. The knot refers entirely to how the story wasn't flowing well at that part and he had to keep rewriting until he found something that worked. There is no no more knot because the book is finished. Presumably he has Dany in a position now where he can continue telling the story in the next book without feeling the need to rewrite each chapter over and over.

 

[elrechazado]

The knot does not refer to a plot point. The knot refers entirely to how the story wasn't flowing well at that part and he had to keep rewriting until he found something that worked. There is no no more knot because the book is finished. Presumably he has Dany in a position now where he can continue telling the story in the next book without feeling the need to rewrite each chapter over and over.

I disagree with your interpretation of the knot, and disagree that the story is now flowing. As has been mentioned, we're in a similar situation to the end of sos ... multiple people are on the way to intercept dany and there has been no resolution.

 

[duckroll]

I disagree with your interpretation of the knot, and disagree that the story is now flowing. As has been mentioned, we're in a similar situation to the end of sos ... multiple people are on the way to intercept dany and there has been no resolution.

But GRRM has explained in detail what the knot was in an interview. It's not an interpretation. His writing knot had two main problems:

a) He needed to get the feel of which character would reach Dany first. It doesn't sound like the other matters, except that he wanted one character to each her first. He tried different ones, and settled on Quentyn.

b) He needed Dany to leave Meereen, and yet continue the story there to capture the reactions of her leaving. He tried it with several existing POVs (Tyrion, Quentyn, etc) but those weren't working out either. In the end he gave in and created the Barristan POV and it worked well enough to fix that.

The resolution is that Dany has left Meereen. That was always meant to happen.

 

[Famassu]

Is the Knot abolished though? Most of the people who set out to find Dany still haven't met her. There's going to be a huge battle, then of course the aftermath will be dealt with. It seems unlikely to me that she'll be headed to Westeros at the end of TWOW, or at least not in the fashion we assume. Perhaps she goes to the Wall while Aegon conquers Westeros without her.

I think a part of it was probably how to get people to Dany at the right time while it not being a total "Tyrion walked down the road and bumbed into Daenerys" kind of deal and there perhaps being some other things that needed to happen (like revealing Aegon is alive and being trained with Tyrion's storyline, getting the Second Sons back to Daenerys side, getting the dothraki back to Dany, Quentyn dying and possibly causing some shit between the Martells & Dany that might come to play later on). Quentyn got to her, Tyrion is very close and is possibly bringing a big army to her, Victarion is bringing a big-ish fleet (which could help her a lot in getting to Westeros) and a red priest (who could perhaps bring the threat of the Others/the other god to her attention), she herself is possibly getting back (a big part of) Drogo's army she lost when Drogo died etc. Also, perhaps Aegon was originally supposed to go to Dany but then Martin decided to send him immediately to Westeros instead (which could either help Dany when she gets to Westeros or cause her problems in the long run). While pretty much all but Quentyn didn't quite get to her in A Dance With Dragons, they are in their place to getting to her quite quickly in The Winds of Winter, if that is to happen. And Dany herself should be ready to be about Fire & Blood again, not about trying to keep everyone happy and sacrificing herself and her beliefs in the meanwhile.


And all this while Dany had to grow as a Queen (she really lacked experience, once the ruling was about more than just commanding an army & a bunch of freed slaves with nowhere else to go to walk forward, and coming up with ways to fuck up her enemies).

 

[LocoMrPollock]

I was reading about Aegon, the specualtion that he's a pretender, and someone mentioned that Varys might have some Targ blood in him and that's why he shaves his head like Egg. I chuckled at first, but then I stared thinking about it, and it would go a long way in explaining why he and Illyrio are so invested in the game.

Anyway, I think we're gonna see a Red Dragon vs Black Dragon type of deal coming up. And I'm gonna go ahead and almost guarantee that Dorne declares for Aegon, pretender or not, based on his being Elia's son, and also the Martell's may not take to kindly to Quentyn being roasted by Dany's dragon.

The real wild cards in all this are the Greyjoys. Victarrion is a fucking nut, and was a pleasant suprise in ADWD for me.

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

Goddamn these 8 different fucking threads got me running in circles.

If i buy a House Stark T-Shirt do you think I will be brutally murdered within a month?

 

[elrechazado]

Anyone else think hodor is a descendant of dunk, and that dunk hooked up with nan? I think bran saw nan kissing dunk in the godswood as a foreshadowing that we'll find this out later.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Goddamn these 8 different fucking threads got me running in circles.

If i buy a House Stark T-Shirt do you think I will be brutally murdered within a month?

Just don't take any type of leadership role and you'll be okay. The rest of your family will probably be fucked though.

Anyone else think hodor is a descendant of dunk, and that dunk hooked up with nan? I think bran saw nan kissing dunk in the godswood as a foreshadowing that we'll find this out later.

Yeah, it would explain Hodor's freakish size. I still wonder how exactly Dunk ties in to Brienne and if he's related to her as well.

 

[LetsGoKiting]

What does Tyrion plan to do with the Second Sons. I don't think Daenerys will take them back. Is he headed back to Westeros? Maybe his knowledge about Casterly Rock's sewers will prove useful later on.

 

[sooperkool]

I was reading about Aegon, the specualtion that he's a pretender, and someone mentioned that Varys might have some Targ blood in him and that's why he shaves his head like Egg. I chuckled at first, but then I stared thinking about it, and it would go a long way in explaining why he and Illyrio are so invested in the game.

Anyway, I think we're gonna see a Red Dragon vs Black Dragon type of deal coming up. And I'm gonna go ahead and almost guarantee that Dorne declares for Aegon, pretender or not, based on his being Elia's son, and also the Martell's may not take to kindly to Quentyn being roasted by Dany's dragon.

The real wild cards in all this are the Greyjoys. Victarrion is a fucking nut, and was a pleasant suprise in ADWD for me.

Here's some baseless speculation. Varys IS Aegon VI.

 

[elrechazado]

What does Tyrion plan to do with the Second Sons. I don't think Daenerys will take them back. Is he headed back to Westeros? Maybe his knowledge about Casterly Rock's sewers will prove useful later on.

It's the best chance he has. I think between the second sons and being a slave to a dead yunkish lord, he just took the best opportunity. Also, he has good luck with sellswords, getting them to see the advantages of helping him and ending up using them for his own ends.