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[Jarmel]

He sent every person loyal to him away, he surrounded himself with people who disagreed with everything he did and never listened to them or met them halfway, and then he publicly announced that he was running off to break his oaths and asked who would join him.

As opposed to keep all the people loyal to him around and having rebellions sprout everywhere else where he didn't have any influence. He explained repeatedly what he was doing and why, which was common sense. Taking in the wildlings was the only reasonable option he had and he went to great lengths to make sure that the wildlings were under control as well. Then at the end he announced that he was going out to deal with an army that was coming North to essentially kill them all and as he stated nobody had to come with him on this.

 

[duckroll]

So how do you guys see the next phase of the war for Westeros playing out? With Cersei back in charge, I can't help but think she'll distrust the Tyrells greatly but realize she still needs them.

Cersei is not going to be back in charge. She's done for. She'll never rule again. With Kevan dead, I see the Tyrells taking full control of the council. Cersei will likely die in the next book.

 

[Pollux]

summer islanders give it for free bro, that's what the gods made us for

But Lys is just so...so...gah. they have it all man....if you have the money honey they've got your disease...

lys is the jungle.

 

[Piecake]

Just finished the book. It feels like we're only a little past halfway.

My thoughts after:
Dany's storyline seems like it'll be a while till she goes to Westeros. She will at least go to Volantis, and who know's where after before returning home. One book to convince her to return. Another for the actually traveling.

Jon will be free from the Night Watch and have him in the North away from the Wall. I think he will unite the North after the Boltons are dead.

I don't think there is anyone clever in King's Landing to know what Varys is up to. The southron lords are screwed.

Littlefinger's plan is to become King. He plans on ruling the Vale, the Riverlands through Harrenhal, and the North through Sansa. From there, who knows what his next part is.

What's Sam's purpose in the story? Or that maester that left Oldtown for Dany? How will lady Stoneheart fit into all of this? Out of all the things going on, Bran's story is the only one ready to fight the white walkers. There's a lot story lines and it seems like many are irrelevant.

Irrelevant? I totally disagree. The Maesters supposedly are the ones who killed off the dragons since they want to create a world without magic where everything is goverened by reason, science, etc, and where they are the lord's most valuable advisor and have the most clout. If you can believe that one Northern lord women who spent a lot of time with Theon, they are apparently a bunch of schemers as well - though that struck me more of her being resentful against them for taking away her Brandon Stark, just like she is resentful of Ned getting her Husband killed. She definitely has some issues.

Sam and Marwin's story will explore that, the history of the citadel, their goals, what they are doing and planning now. Will they try to kill the dragons? Council the lords to ignore the north? Basically dooming the world because they are too tied up in their prejudices.

 

[Jarmel]

He didn't say Jon was a terrible person. He said Jon was a terrible Commander. A good Lord Commander knows that what needs to be done and what can be done are not always the same thing. If you turn everyone against you by doing the right thing, you're a really moral man. But what good is a moral dead man, when he is no longer Lord Commander? If he was the only one holding together the alliance of Wildlings and men of the Night's Watch, all the more he should have thought about how to keep himself alive, in power, and generally well liked. Because if he dies, the entire plan starts to fall apart and he would have accomplished nothing.

Jon's back was against the wall, literally I suppose. If he didn't have those towers armed, Stannis was going to take them. That was perfectly clear. He explained repeatedly what he was doing and why to Marsh and it was common sense. He established his authority relatively early on with Slant. What else could he have done to make sure they survive and he was relatively well liked? Hold company picnics? The only thing I can think of is the ex-whore as a steward. He should have backed off on that but considering what his options are, I can't really blame him.

I will say this, one thing all the Starks have been guilty of is that they assume people are just as honorable as them when the reality is nowhere close.

 

[Tacitus_]

Cersei is not going to be back in charge. She's done for. She'll never rule again. With Kevan dead, I see the Tyrells taking full control of the council. Cersei will likely die in the next book.

Gregorstein is going to win her trial so she'll be innocent to the more damaging claims. Then it's up to Varys to pull a few strings to get her back into power and fucking things up.

 

[Piecake]

But Lys is just so...so...gah. they have it all man....if you have the money honey they've got your disease...

lys is the jungle.

The Summer Islands seem much more pleasant. From the descriptions of Voltanis and the people there, I imagine that Lys is very similar. Bunch of entitled douchebag rich people owning slaves, treating everyone else like garbage. It probably is insufferably hot and disease ridden too, what with the jungle and all, and Voltanis being described insufferably hot even to the Dornish since it doesnt cool at night

 

[Blue Ninja]

I won't accept Jon's death until they lay it out bare in the next book. I bet Melisandre will work some of her magic on him.

Martin's comments especially still give me some hope:

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: So why did you kill Jon Snow?
GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: Oh, you think he’s dead, do you?

 

[Jarmel]

Gregorstein is going to win her trial so she'll be innocent to the more damaging claims. Then it's up to Varys to pull a few strings to get her back into power and fucking things up.

That's not the point though. She's been shamed. Even if she's found innocent, nobody can ever take her seriously again due to the Walk.

 

[duckroll]

Gregorstein is going to win her trial so she'll be innocent to the more damaging claims. Then it's up to Varys to pull a few strings to get her back into power and fucking things up.

unGregor isn't going to win jack shit. He's totally going to lose to not-Sandor at the trial. Everyone is so busy fussing over Cersei's champion, they never stopped to think who the High Septon has for his champion.

Cersei is going to die at the hands of the "younger brother", but not her younger brother. Prophecies are funny things!

 

[Dresden]

That's not the point though. She's been shamed. Even if she's found innocent, nobody can ever take her seriously again due to the Walk.

You're looking at it from Kevan's POV.

Cersei being a joke suits Varys well.

 

[elrechazado]

That's not the point though. She's been shamed. Even if she's found innocent, nobody can ever take her seriously again due to the Walk.

Never underestimate the incompetence and weakness of the tyrells, especially with new rebellion now happening, or cersei's ability to crudely manipulate shit. I wouldn't be surprised if littlefinger pulled strings to try to support cersei. Remember he loves the chaos, and wanted cersei in power a while longer for his plans. I wouldn't count her out at this point. In the long run, she's dead and done, but she could have a rebirth.

I said pages ago that I think cersei dies because sandor wins her trial, but I wouldn't be shocked to see the trial be delayed a long time given kevan's death especially.

 

[LocoMrPollock]

Jon was a terrible commander.

True that. He was just starting to grow on me when he got the Ceaser treatment, though. I'm sure Melisandre will revive him and Tormund and his member will take control of Castle Black at least, not sure about the other forts.

So did I miss something about Aegon? Were there hints given that he is a pretender? Everything sounded pretty solid to me and Tyrion never doubted him.

 

[Jarmel]

Never underestimate the incompetence and weakness of the tyrells, especially with new rebellion now happening, or cersei's ability to crudely manipulate shit. I wouldn't be surprised if littlefinger pulled strings to try to support cersei. Remember he loves the chaos, and wanted cersei in power a while longer for his plans. I wouldn't count her out at this point. In the long run, she's dead and done, but she could have a rebirth.

I said pages ago that I think cersei dies because sandor wins her trial, but I wouldn't be shocked to see the trial be delayed a long time given kevan's death especially.

Wait how are the Tyrells that incompetent? They're pretty much ruling the joint and nobody hates them. Either way I have no clue how Martin is going to handle the trial, Cersei could simply get off.

unGregor isn't going to win jack shit. He's totally going to lose to not-Sandor at the trial. Everyone is so busy fussing over Cersei's champion, they never stopped to think who the High Septon has for his champion.

Cersei is going to die at the hands of the "younger brother", but not her younger brother. Prophecies are funny things!

Wait isn't Jon a little brother compared to Rhaegar's other kids?

 

[elrechazado]

Wait how are the Tyrells that incompetent? They're pretty much ruling the joint and nobody hates them.

Mace Tyrell is a dumbass. Olenna is shrewd enough, but the tyrells are spread thin, committed to the lannisters for good or bad, and losing ground and time to supporting the crown, losing land and men and trade to the ironmen, standing armies in the dornish marches, and now connington. I suppose I meant more "stretched to the point of "fucked"" rather than incompetent.

 

[Basileus777]

Wait how are the Tyrells that incompetent? They're pretty much ruling the joint and nobody hates them.

The Tyrells as a whole aren't incompetent, but Mace sure is. And he's solely in charge of Tyrell affairs in KL now. Look at the dumb ideas and suggestions Mace had in the epilogue, it's not hard to see how he might fuck things up.

 

[Tacitus_]

That's not the point though. She's been shamed. Even if she's found innocent, nobody can ever take her seriously again due to the Walk.

If Cersei gets back to power, she'll just lob the head off anyone even mentioning her Walk.

unGregor isn't going to win jack shit. He's totally going to lose to not-Sandor at the trial. Everyone is so busy fussing over Cersei's champion, they never stopped to think who the High Septon has for his champion.

Cersei is going to die at the hands of the "younger brother", but not her younger brother. Prophecies are funny things!

Too good to be true :|

 

[Jarmel]

Mace Tyrell is a dumbass. Olenna is shrewd enough, but the tyrells are spread thin, committed to the lannisters for good or bad, and losing ground and time to supporting the crown, the ironmen, standing armies in the dornish marches, and now connington. I suppose I meant more "stretched to the point of "fucked"" rather than incompetent.

The Tyrells if need be, can screw the Lannisters over at any time. Joffrey's marriage is null. Are they likely to? Not really as they expect they can crush Connington pretty easily. They also don't know that Dorne is ready to screw them at the drop of a hat.

The Tyrells as a whole aren't incompetent, but Mace sure is. And he's solely in charge of Tyrell affairs in KL now. Look at the dumb ideas and suggestions Mace had in the epilogue, it's not hard to see how he might fuck things up.

Yes Mace is an idiot but overall the Tyrells have probably the best position other than Dorne.

 

[elrechazado]

The Tyrells if need be, can screw the Lannisters over at any time. Joffrey's marriage is null. Are they likely to? Not really as they expect they can crush Connington pretty easily. They also don't know that Dorne is ready to screw them at the drop of a hat.

Of course they can screw the lannisters, but fucking the lannisters doesn't mean winning the game of thrones. All of the rest that I pointed out still remains.

 

[Enduin]

Wait isn't Jon a little brother compared to Rhaegar's other kids?

Rickon and Shaggydog bitches.

 

[Jarmel]

Of course they can screw the lannisters, but fucking the lannisters doesn't mean winning the game of thrones. All of the rest that I pointed out still remains.

Yes it doesn't mean they win but it means they survive. At this point the name of the game is survival. All the major houses are pretty much going down in flames. Yes they're very much spread out and should be consolidating but so far they've done a relatively decent job.

Rickon and Shaggydog bitches.

I will die laughing if Shaggydog rips out Cersei's throat.

 

[duckroll]

Too good to be true :|

I don't think the Tyrells being in power is a "good" thing in particular though...

 

[traveler]

Jon's back was against the wall, literally I suppose. If he didn't have those towers armed, Stannis was going to take them. That was perfectly clear. He explained repeatedly what he was doing and why to Marsh and it was common sense. He established his authority relatively early on with Slant. What else could he have done to make sure they survive and he was relatively well liked? Hold company picnics? The only thing I can think of is the ex-whore as a steward. He should have backed off on that but considering what his options are, I can't really blame him.

I will say this, one thing all the Starks have been guilty of is that they assume people are just as honorable as them when the reality is nowhere close.

Agreed. I don't really get the complaints about John being a terrible commander. He basically eliminated one of the two threats beyond the Wall singlehandedly by turning it into an ally, all the while weakening the Other threat by a) reducing the number of potential wights on the other side of the Wall and b) manning more parts of the Wall with his new converts. He managed his men such that risk on the part of the women was minimized, stations apart from him were managed by those he could trust, and those untrustworthy were kept under a close eye. He very carefully navigated a relationship with Stannis- something very few other commanders have had to deal with- preventing him from taking the Wall for his own while still establishing a dialogue well enough that, should Stannis succeed, the Wall would have a better mouthpiece in King's Landing than ever before. He even managed to benefit from Stannis' aid without going so far as to "take place in the struggles of the land."

Until the end, which brings me to the two problems I have with Jon's reign. His move to fight Roose Bolton was rash and presented to the public on logic that does not stand up to the rules of the Night Watch. That's not to say that fighting Roose might not have been the right move- he might have very well threatened the Watch and, in doing so, justified a campaign on the part of the Watch to attack him- but John's decision to do so was done so quickly and with so little thought that it felt completely out of character. Almost like Martin had to have him break character just to give Marsh and co. motive to carry out their deed. Had John presented the letter, given it some time, and explained why it was so necessary for Bolton to be dealt with, he might have won the Watch over. (or at the very least made them see the reason in his stance) Which brings me to my second issue- explanation. John's reasons are perfectly justified to those of us privy to his inner thoughts and he even explains them to a reasonable degree to Marsh on occasion, but he could have handled his communication with the Watch a bit better. Had he gone out of his way to appear to really consider the Watch's objections and completely explained his stances to everyone each time he made a call, I think he would have had far more allies. How could anyone really defend leaving the free men out there to die and come back to fight them when they could have them on their side?

So, all told, I think Jon's short rule was actually quite productive. He would have/maybe will made a fine ruler in time. It just remains to be seen how much his efforts will be undermined by his final rash action and the fallout from his assassination.

 

[LetsGoKiting]

So how do you guys see the next phase of the war for Westeros playing out? With Cersei back in charge, I can't help but think she'll distrust the Tyrells greatly but realize she still needs them. Jaime is lost, and he has the largest Lannister army far away in the Riverlands. So Cersei will truly be unable to casually throw away the Tyrell alliance, nor could she remove them from the council.

Cersei lost a lot of her fire. And with Kevan gone, her only ally is Qyburn. Tyrells will rule the council. Mace Tyrell is a fool. Watch for Randall Tarly to be a serious threat.

Then you have the Vale, completely untouched by war. Littlefinger means to marry Sansa Stark to the heir of the Vale in order to solidify his position, and place Winterfell in his grasp. But with Stannis on the verge of a Northern alliance and Rickon Stark soon to be found/revealed, Littlefinger's house of cards could easily fall.

For Littlefinger, fighting is a last resort. So, he will make new allegiances. Luckily he has no enemies. I can't imagine him leading an army into battle.

This series has a lot of twists. The series can go anywhere.

 

[Basileus777]

Yes it doesn't mean they win but it means they survive. At this point the name of the game is survival. All the major houses are pretty much going down in flames. Yes they're very much spread out and should be consolidating but so far they've done a relatively decent job.

The Tyrells have a ton of enemies; Cersei, Aegon, Dorne, the Ironborn, and maybe eventually Dany or even the Faith if Mace fucks things up. The Golden Company hinted that some of their vassals might not be as loyal as Highgarden thinks and some of them like the Hightowers already pretty much do what they want. Their power is dependent on Tommen being King, and that alone puts them in a difficult position.

 

[duckroll]

Cersei lost a lot of her fire. And with Kevan gone, her only ally is Qyburn. Tyrells will rule the council. Mace Tyrell is a fool. Watch for Randall Tarly to be a serious threat.

Randyll taking control of King's Landing would be interesting. I wonder how Samwell will react to that.

 

[Tacitus_]

I don't think the Tyrells being in power is a "good" thing in particular though...

I meant mainly for us readers. Poetic justice just doesn't fit this series.

 

[elrechazado]

I meant mainly for us readers. Poetic justice just doesn't fit this series.

Sometimes we get some though in small doses. Freys getting strung up, tywin shot in the privy, freys getting eaten by manderly, arya killing dareon....

 

[Tacitus_]

Sometimes we get some though in small doses. Freys getting strung up, tywin shot in the privy, freys getting eaten by manderly, arya killing dareon....

But I liked Tywin He could get shit done.

 

[Jarmel]

The Tyrells have a ton of enemies; Cersei, Aegon, Dorne, the Ironborn, and maybe eventually Dany or even the Faith if Mace fucks things up. The Golden Company hinted that some of their vassals might not be as loyal as Highgarden thinks and some of them like the Hightowers already pretty much do what they want. Their power is dependent on Tommen being King, and that alone puts them in a difficult position.

Well after Kevan's little incident, I suppose the Lannisters and Tyrell's will be at each other's throat. Aegon indeed is an enemy. Dorne is more concerned with tearing apart the Lannisters than anything else. The Ironborn are a naval power at best and so really are limited in regards to what they can do. Dany with the way she's behaving is such a long term problem I wouldn't even view her as an enemy. As for the Faith, that could be interesting if Mace steps at the trial if things aren't going the direction he wants.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Cersei still more than capable of ruling. Her walk of shame may have embarrassed her but she's still Queen Reagent, her son is still king. The problem will be that the Tyrell army is within King's Landing and Jaime's force is far away.

If Bolton fails in the North, what will be her response? I can't see her sending the last Lannister army north, especially with Jaime lost. Perhaps she could send a Tyrell force North and offer them Winterfell. That would split their forces across the continent (North and deep South, fighting the ironmen)

 

[Piecake]

The Tyrells have a ton of enemies; Cersei, Aegon, Dorne, the Ironborn, and maybe eventually Dany or even the Faith if Mace fucks things up. The Golden Company hinted that some of their vassals might not be as loyal as Highgarden thinks and some of them like the Hightowers already pretty much do what they want. Their power is dependent on Tommen being King, and that alone puts them in a difficult position.

I could imagine something like Margaery becoming queen and regent while Mace is the hand, which would probably result in Cersei cancelling the Marriage and taking Tommen back to the rock, by force if necessary. I mean, what Lannister is left to stop her? Jamie will probably be out of the picture for a while, perhaps even permanently. I think the power shifting too much in highgarden's favor would fracture the alliance completely.

I think that would be a better way to create chaos than stick Cersei back in power again, because sure, she would basically have very little power, but Highgarden would still be tied. Completely pushing the Lannisters out though, that would shatter the alliance and create some opportunities for Aegon

 

[PhoenixDark]

I could imagine something like Margaery becoming queen and regent while Mace is the hand, which would probably result in Cersei cancelling the Marriage and taking Tommen back to the rock, by force if necessary. I mean, what Lannister is left to stop her? Jamie will probably be out of the picture for a while, perhaps even permanently. I think the power shifting too much in highgarden's favor would fracture the alliance completely.

I think that would be a better way to create chaos than stick Cersei back in power again, because sure, she would basically have very little power, but Highgarden would still be tied. Completely pushing the Lannisters out though, that would shatter the alliance and create some opportunities for Aegon

Margery can't become Queen Reagent as long as Cersei is alive. Varys clearly believes Cersei will rule for the foreseeable future

 

[Basileus777]

Cersei had the regency stripped from her and given to Kevan. She might regain it somehow, but she's not Queen Regent right now.

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

unGregor isn't going to win jack shit. He's totally going to lose to not-Sandor at the trial. Everyone is so busy fussing over Cersei's champion, they never stopped to think who the High Septon has for his champion.

Cersei is going to die at the hands of the "younger brother", but not her younger brother. Prophecies are funny things!

Ooooh I like that. I give it 5/10 GRRM troll faces that it will happen "just so"............ so 50/50.

 

[dabig2]

Cersei still more than capable of ruling. Her walk of shame may have embarrassed her but she's still Queen Reagent, her son is still king. The problem will be that the Tyrell army is within King's Landing and Jaime's force is far away.

If Bolton fails in the North, what will be her response? I can't see her sending the last Lannister army north, especially with Jaime lost. Perhaps she could send a Tyrell force North and offer them Winterfell. That would split their forces across the continent (North and deep South, fighting the ironmen)

Sending any force North will be an absolutely destructive decision. Ain't nobody from the South going up there with winter upon them. If the North unifies against the Bolton/Freys, there's really nothing the South can do to them at the moment. Even a weak, somewhat starving North should do well in a defensive position during winter. Especially if Stannis is still alive to lead them.

Plus, I'm interested in seeing the Vale again. LF had ambitions for Sansa getting Winterfell. Only way to do that is to openly declare war on the Lannisters and their allies.

If people thought ADWD was somewhat slow, I think they'll be mollified with the next book. All I see is open war on ALL fronts from here on out.

 

[elrechazado]

Cersei had the regency stripped from her and given to Kevan. She might regain it somehow, but she's not Queen Regent right now.

Well, the first step would be to have the regency in need of replacement...oh wait

 

[Basileus777]

Well, the first step would be to have the regency in need of replacement...oh wait

I'm pretty sure the small council has the authority to choose a regent, it's how Kevan assumed the role. With Pycelle and Kevan dead, Swift is the only Lannister supporter on the council. With Redwyne and Jaime gone, and no Grand Maester, unless Nymeria Sand teams up with Swift to counter Tarly and Mace, the Tyrells control the small council.

 

[Piecake]

I'm pretty sure the small council has the authority to choose a regent, it's how Kevan assumed the role. With Pycelle and Kevan dead, Swift is the only Lannister supporter on the council. With Redwyne and Jaime gone, and no Grand Maester, unless Nymeria Sand teams up with Swift to counter Tarly and Mace, the Tyrells control the small council.

I honestly see Swift as the token Lannister, going along with the Tyrells because he is a coward, pansy, and it means more power to him. Cersei, I dont think, will accept that. There is no way Nymeria Sand allies herself with the Lannisters or Tyrells, but especially the Lannisters. I bet she will do what she does to create the most havoc possible

 

[platypotamus]

I will die laughing if Shaggydog rips out Cersei's throat.

Would be good revenge for Lady.

 

[iammeiam]

unGregor isn't going to win jack shit. He's totally going to lose to not-Sandor at the trial. Everyone is so busy fussing over Cersei's champion, they never stopped to think who the High Septon has for his champion.

Cersei is going to die at the hands of the "younger brother", but not her younger brother. Prophecies are funny things!

I don't get this theory, as popular as it is--the same set of prophecies that introduce the younger brother thing also say that all three of her kids will be crowned and then dead prior to her own death. In order for that to happen, Tommen's death, Myrcella's coronation, and Myrcella's death need to happen, which seems very unlikely to all go down in the remaining short period before Cersei's trial.

I could see the brothers Clegane facing off in another trial down the line, but Cersei's upcoming one she will win.

 

[elrechazado]

I don't get this theory, as popular as it is--the same set of prophecies that introduce the younger brother thing also say that all three of her kids will be crowned and then dead prior to her own death. In order for that to happen, Tommen's death, Myrcella's coronation, and Myrcella's death need to happen, which seems very unlikely to all go down in the remaining short period before Cersei's trial.

I could see the brothers Clegane facing off in another trial down the line, but Cersei's upcoming one she will win.

How long would it take for tommen to be killed (could happen "tomorrow"), and for myrcella to be crowned and assasinated in dorne? It's not like these two things would take years to happen.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Well since the Quentyn/Dany think didn't work out, maybe Doran will go ahead and marry Myrcella to Trystane and crown her. Although that's probably a bigger step than he'd ever take.

edit: I feel bad for the little Lannisters, they're pretty decent kids (which is incredible considering their parents) who are going to get fucked up massively

 

[elrechazado]

Well since the Quentyn/Dany think didn't work out, maybe Doran will go ahead and marry Myrcella to Trystane and crown her. Although that's probably a bigger step than he'd ever take.

edit: I feel bad for the little Lannisters, there pretty decent kids (which is incredible considering their parents) who are going to get fucked up massively

Yeah, all the dickery went into joffrey. Myrcella and Tommen are just fine, or could be if cersei is kept away from them.

 

[iammeiam]

How long would it take for tommen to be killed (could happen "tomorrow"), and for myrcella to be crowned and assasinated in dorne? It's not like these two things would take years to happen.

I'm relatively sure Myrcella would need to come back to King's Landing for her coronation, and there's a shitload of political jockeying that would need to happen to give somebody an actual reason to assassinate her at that point (same with Tommen, really.) Right now nobody really has power in King's Landing. The Small Council is pretty ruined, Cersei's powerless and not much of a threat unless she survives her trial, and Myrcella and Tommen are basically the perfect figurehead monarchs at this point. Varys wants that family to stay in power, Littlefinger's not out to get them, and the Tyrells have a vested interest in Tommen's continued existence.

The impression I got at the end of the last book is that Cersei was days away from her trial; it just makes no sense to cram all the above into a couple of chapters to sweep it under the rug so Sandor and Gregor can face off.

 

[elrechazado]

I'm relatively sure Myrcella would need to come back to King's Landing for her coronation, and there's a shitload of political jockeying that would need to happen to give somebody an actual reason to assassinate her at that point (same with Tommen, really.) Right now nobody really has power in King's Landing. The Small Council is pretty ruined, Cersei's powerless and not much of a threat unless she survives her trial, and Myrcella and Tommen are basically the perfect figurehead monarchs at this point. Varys wants that family to stay in power, Littlefinger's not out to get them, and the Tyrells have a vested interest in Tommen's continued existence.

The impression I got at the end of the last book is that Cersei was days away from her trial; it just makes no sense to cram all the above into a couple of chapters to sweep it under the rug so Sandor and Gregor can face off.

Myrcella's coronation has nothing to do with king's landing. It has to do with dorne using her as a pawn. She gets crowned by doran in sunspear, boom.

 

[Sirpopopop]

unGregor isn't going to win jack shit. He's totally going to lose to not-Sandor at the trial. Everyone is so busy fussing over Cersei's champion, they never stopped to think who the High Septon has for his champion.

Cersei is going to die at the hands of the "younger brother", but not her younger brother. Prophecies are funny things!

Tommen & Myrcella have to bite the dust first, well unless they are wearing golden shrouds at the duel.

Of course, I'm placing my bet on Sansa being the queen to cast down Cersei. In a way that would work if Sandor kills UnGregor.

 

[Pollux]

Cersei is not going to be back in charge. She's done for. She'll never rule again. With Kevan dead, I see the Tyrells taking full control of the council. Cersei will likely die in the next book.

And I hope it is painful, and that she truly realizes every mistake she made over the course of the last few books.

 

[bengraven]

I saw this pic a day or two after picking up the book and this is what I pictured Tyrion and company riding down the river in, except with a bigger deck.

Without the outboard motor of course.

 

[Blue Ninja]

And I hope it is painful, and that she truly realizes every mistake she made over the course of the last few books.

I thought the point in ADwD where she remembers, and even slightly laments, Ned's execution on the steps of Baelor's Sept was pretty well-done.

Of course, she doesn't lament Ned dying, she laments the fact that his death set off the War of the Five Kings. But still, pretty well done. :lol