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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
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ZephyrFate
Banned
He's also probably gonna light a fire underneath Dany's ass now that he has the Second Sons behind himbathala said:
apana said:
Varys says he is being bred to rule and to not be an asshole so I think he wont be too bad. Connington seems like a decent guy and wouldn't be following him if he wasn't Aegon but we will see. I really wonder what's going to happen with Jon. I think he will be around but we might lose the POV.
I wasn't completely serious with my speculation of Arya killing Sansa, that was just the most "shocking" example I could come up with quickly. Mostly just meant that what if she's sent to kill some character we like and we're like "NOOOO, Arya, don't do it!" So we'd go from "Go Arya! Go Arya!" to "FUCK, she better not succeed."elrechazao said:
Ah, okay, I didn't know/remember that kind of rule being mentioned in the books.zmoney said:
I've actually thought about this too. Either the "shocking" part in Arya's training will be that she actually goes through it and gets some target that most of us probably don't want her to kill, or she quits the training for some reason, or is forced to quit and that will cause her some problems (perhaps they'll send Faceless Men after her and she'll have to use the skills she has to escape them, never being able to return to being Arya of Winterfell in the fear of the Faceless Men finding her, that would certainly be somewhat bittersweet, if she even makes it through all 7 books). I mean, both are things I could see Martin doing. I DO have a hard time seeing is Arya finishing the training, because nothing ever goes how we'd want them to go for her, but it could be a refreshing change of pace if she did.platypotamus said:
That said, if Arya DOES finish her training, I've been thinking who other than the Bank of Braavos could hire her? From people we know, who have the wealth for such thing? I've been thinking maybe Illyrio finds himself in a situation where he needs to get rid of someone that is in the way of his plans (someone from Westeros, perhaps).
Well, the thing I've been saying for a long while is that don't really make any assumptions as to what "needs to happen" in ASOIAF. I'd say the perfect example would be how Stannis goes from having his escapades in the south to manning The Wall, something I doubt anyone could see when reading A Clash of Kings and getting to know him for the first time (most probably thought he'd just die trying to get the Iron Throne for himself). Or how both Asha & Theon are now both with Stannis. Something surprising can always happen and these surprising things could lead to certain characters coming together & plotlines combining in ways that we have no idea of at this point.apana said:
We can be sure that Arya will come into contact with someone of importance in the story, one way or another, which will almost 100% likely take her away from all the Faceless Man stuff. Sansa's story will 100% surely be tied to what happens in Winterfell, Vale & the Riverlands. Both Tyrell & Lannister's (& the situation in King's Landing's) fate could be wholly dependent of Aegon's invasion of Westeros. Daenerys "needs to" get to Westeros, but what she'll do there (she can't just go to King's Landing and ask for the crown nicely) and what kind of situation the whole continent is by that point is still a complete mystery. Is the Iron Throne at all important at that point? How far will Tyrion go with fucking up Cersei? Will he even end up doing something to her?
I mean, a typical fantasy novel would probably make Dany the saviour of Westeros, along with Jon, who'll arrive to Westeros that has been ravaged by Others just in the nick of time to take care of the Others with her dragons, combining all the troops that are still left under one banner. But we know that is way too predictable & too easy a way out for Martin. On the other hand, Dany becoming a part of the scheming in King's Landing this late in the game doesn't seem like a good idea either, since that could take too long for the two books that are still left.
I'll go on and predict that Daenerys won't arrive to Westeros until A Dream of Spring and when she does, it won't necessarily be King's Landing or even the Others she'll have on the top of her mind and she might do something that we wouldn't expect her to do at this point. When everyone was reading AGOT for the first time, I'm pretty sure most people were thinking, at some point, that the book would end up with Daenerys setting off for Westeros with her army and the rest of the series would be about her struggling to getting & keeping the Iron Throne.
But here we are, closing in on the two last books in the series and she's still not there. So I'm really starting to think that the hardest part of Daenerys journey is overcoming the difficulties of getting to Westeros in one piece. Her arriving to Westeros and doing something big there is the climax of her story, not just a beginning of another story arc like her ruling Meereen or something. I'm almost positive that she won't arrive there in TWOW. Some would think that she just NEEDS TO get there for whatever complex storylines they think NEED TO happen. But what if she didn't arrive to Westeros until A Dream of Spring and what if the resolution to all her struggles once she gets there is something simple yet surprising and satisfying. You might think she'd first need to conquer Westeros/King's Landing and then deal with tons of things, but there are lots of other ways her story could advance.
What makes you think she was captured? She had the dragon by her side, she could've fried anyone trying to come near them.
BamYouHaveAids said:
I was thinking about specific turns of phrase in the description of the ordeal. I know she deserves it but that description of her breaking and running on all fours like a dog turned my stomach a little. Yeah, the Theon situation was obviously far worse but nothing quite got to me like that wording for some reason.
I'm sure I'll be back to wishing her death and torture by the end of the next book don't you worry!
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Famassu said:
I can see her killing Littlefinger or the dude Littlefinger wants sansa to marry. Though I think it will be the iron bank that takes her back to the 7 kingdoms.
ZephyrFate
Banned
GRRM is an absolute master of taking people you hate and making them people you really care about.apana said:
That alone puts him head and shoulders above any other fantasy author.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Comes from having no good or evil. Just people in circumstances.ZephyrFate said:
Uggghghghghggggghhhhhhh.....
well i was kind of uncomfortable during the cersei scene since it was literally showing how the forces that shaped her into the evil cow she is, i.e. cultural misogyny, are totally prevailing over her again
but shes still a stupid idiot and nobody should like her because shes a bad human being
but shes still a stupid idiot and nobody should like her because shes a bad human being
ZephyrFate
Banned
That's one mighty shit you must be taking.Freshmaker said:
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
No no...ZephyrFate said:
That's my reaction to yours.
apana said:
Yeah, I felt the same way. Theon's arc in Dance was the best in the book, and one of the best in the series. And once it got to the part with
"Why do you love the Starks?"
"I...I wanted to be one of them."
I was all "fuck it, I don't want Theon to die anymore! I want him to have some sort of redemption." Which means, of course, GRRM will kill him off next book, lol.
ZephyrFate
Banned
I highly doubt that.Freshmaker said:
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Nah. He won't be in the next book at all.KingK said:
Freshmaker said:
As I was finishing up A Storm of Swords, I thought there was no way any other fantasy author could touch Martin. It just seemed impossible.
These last two books have lowered my estimation of him just a bit. I still think he's better than Jordan/Sanderson though.
ZephyrFate
Banned
If anything, the last two books prove he has better writing chops, in terms of actual prose, than anyone else.Puddles said:
Erikson comes close, but... then gets lost in his DBZ superheroes.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Interesting, Martin will be reading an excerpt from Winds Of Winter at the upcoming Worldcom.
http://www.westeros.org/ASoWS/News/Entry/GRRM_to_Read_from_The_Winds_of_Winter/
I felt bad for reading so many of the chapters that were released early for ADWD, and vowed not to make the same mistake with TWOW. But I'm going to read every single summary that pops online for this lol
http://www.westeros.org/ASoWS/News/Entry/GRRM_to_Read_from_The_Winds_of_Winter/
I felt bad for reading so many of the chapters that were released early for ADWD, and vowed not to make the same mistake with TWOW. But I'm going to read every single summary that pops online for this lol
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Neither of those represent the best fantasy has to offer.Puddles said:
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Was I the only one who liked and felt bad for Quentin? It was not easy to do what he did. He failed, and maybe he was a bit foolish, but I wouldn't question his motivation or his devotion to home and family. He was gracious throughout. I wonder if we'll hear from Drink and Arch again?
And Theon... woa. Painful to read. I liked him, then hated him for what he did for Winterfell, but after punishment like that, what are people's general consensus? Are they back in his camp? He's endured what no man should, I can't see his story ending well for him at all.
And Theon... woa. Painful to read. I liked him, then hated him for what he did for Winterfell, but after punishment like that, what are people's general consensus? Are they back in his camp? He's endured what no man should, I can't see his story ending well for him at all.
John Harker said:
I thought Quentyn's death felt a little forced to me. I don't think from what we know of his character that he would really have gone into a Dragon's pit and try to capture them. You really have to be beyond stupid to attempt that and you deserve what you get.
ZephyrFate
Banned
Quentyn personifies the "words are wind" idea, which is exactly why I felt his arc was necessary... and hilarious.John Harker said:
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
Imagine the exposition they can cram into that scene!Aselith said:
Dany's chapters can best be summed up thusly:
Dany: "Someone keeps killing my people."
Quaithe: Beware the perfumed seneschal.
Dany: "Who is this Harpy?"
Quaithe: Beware the perfumed seneschal.
Dany: "I am being betrayed - who could it be?"
Quaithe: Beware the perfumed seneschal.
Dany: "Somebody wants me gone; who could it be?"
Quaithe: YOU STUPID BITCH - I'm in goddamned italics! My words are in YOUR head! You're remembering my motherfucking words verbatim, on OCD loop!
Dany: "Someone keeps killing my people."
Quaithe: Beware the perfumed seneschal.
Dany: "Who is this Harpy?"
Quaithe: Beware the perfumed seneschal.
Dany: "I am being betrayed - who could it be?"
Quaithe: Beware the perfumed seneschal.
Dany: "Somebody wants me gone; who could it be?"
Quaithe: YOU STUPID BITCH - I'm in goddamned italics! My words are in YOUR head! You're remembering my motherfucking words verbatim, on OCD loop!
Fuck Theon. Robb gave him and his father a chance to be legitimized and what does he do? Comes back to Winterfell and kills people who have raised him and makes the world believe he killed the youngest Stark sons. Ramsay is a bastard for doing that shit to him but it's not like he didn't deserve it. He better die by the end of the series.
PhoenixDark
Banned
zmoney said:
It'll be on westeros.org in no time
ZephyrFate
Banned
YIKES!Hero said:
I feel like a lot of bitch made dudes would empathize with Quentin. He was this clueless beta male ------- I'd call him a bit worse but I don't want to be banned. Vic Greyjoy and especially Daario were awesome. Brash dudes who took what was there and made it their own. EvenDany - presumably the strong female type of the book - was enamored by Daarios I don't give a Fuckness come see me attitude. It's true in real life and it's true in ASOIAF - you can be a well reasoned romantic dude who offers too much like respect- like Quentin - and never get yours or just pull a Qarl and boom ashes suckin your dick in your sleep,
jon bones said:
Well Dany has pretty high standards as far as masculinity goes, her first love was Khal Drogo. Anyways I never really cared for the Quentyn character, I feel he was just created so George could then kill him off. I don't think anyone half sane would attempt to kidnap dragons. Quentyn wasn't the best looking guy either, Dany looked at him and felt disappointed so I'm not sure what alpha male antics/tactis he could have used to change her mind right before she was being married off to Hizdahr. What would you have done in his position to get Dany's love? Also why would you be banned for insulting a fictional character?
PhoenixDark
Banned
jon bones said:
Quentyn is basically a GAFer who posts in girl-age threads. He holds the door open for women, is willing to cuddle, doesn't sleep around, and expects/demands girls to reward him for his behavior. But when the girl of his dreams disses him he proceeds to get his face burned off instead of running to the computer lab to post a thread. I can respect that.
. (do you want to get burn) lolAm I the only one who is worried for Bran? Something about Bloodraven and the children of the forest doesn't strike me as right. It's all to convenient and very much like traditional fantasy. Not to mention that Meera and Jojen seem very worried and kind of disappear near the end of the last Bran chapter. Also Bran tastes blood at the end of his visions of the past. I hope those two are okay, I've always wondered if Jojen and Meera are who they say they are and what could they be hiding.
apana said:
Jojen, more than like, is dying, as per Meera's worry over his condition, and his acceptance of it (green seer that he is, he has seen his own death).
Bran is going to become a new old god, himself, methinks.
And as to Deus Ex Machina... *ahem* Aegon, I think he going to get killed off as rather abruptly as he was dropped into the plot - just for the sake of Martin doing so.
The funniest thing about those is that even if she was people really think she would do it? I thought it was pretty obvious that she was still arya even under whatever name she was serving under. It seems like she doesn't even like the faceless men she is just using them to learn their skills.elrechazao said:
I could see a faceless man being sent to kill a stark and Arya finding out about it and saying fuck you all and going to help whoever they are after though. I think thatd be interesting.
platypotamus
Member
PhoenixDark said:
I'm glad you and Jon are pointing this out. I've been reluctant to say anything, but you guys are totally capturing how I feel about the internet's dislike of Dany wanting Daario. It smacks completely of friend-zoned nice guy syndrome, who is mad that the cute girl he likes is going after the "bad boy"/jerk instead.
Daario isn't a particularly well-written bad boy though.
There are much better bad boys in the series (admittedly, none of them within reach of Dany at the moment). Either of the two Greyjoy brothers (the Damphair doesn't count) would bend Daario over and butt-rape him in about two seconds.
There are much better bad boys in the series (admittedly, none of them within reach of Dany at the moment). Either of the two Greyjoy brothers (the Damphair doesn't count) would bend Daario over and butt-rape him in about two seconds.
ZephyrFate
Banned
guys. guys.
guys.
it's all about *~Darkstar~*
*swoons*
guys.
it's all about *~Darkstar~*
*swoons*
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