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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**

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M

m3k

Member
so one question

what of the religions in the books... we know that the old gods and rhollor are still active... do you think the drowned god and the 7 make an appearance? or are their worshippers doomed to follow rhollor... theyve got the most action going on, spreading the word and all that
 
F

Famassu

Member
Arcblade said:
I say what with Dany turning into a whining, indecisive, and pining twit, isn't exactly reaching.

"Oh... my dragons must be chained - because of a little girl... *sniffle* it was LITTLE GIRL...

(forget about all of the little girls who died in her wars - they are irrelevant if not McDrackal's fastfood.)
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How many of those were killed by Dany's dragons without any provocation & not as part of any attack, which she previously thought she was somewhat in control of? Sure, there has been some casualties, but those are inevitable in war. Dragons killing innocent people when they are not fighting anyone needs to be dealt with and they did the only thing they could do. Dragons had been these magical creatures before that could be nasty to Dany's enemies but were pretty tame otherwise and were still in control of Dany, Drogon killing a little girl was a great way of showing that they are just bloodlusty beasts. It's like how a tiger can be all cute & somewhat manageable when it's young, but can tear your throat open when it gets older. We had only been seeing the cute puppy phase of dragons, it was a great way of showing what dragons really are.


Pretty much everything that happened in Mereen is antithetical to the badass, no nonsense "I am the blood of dragons, reborn of fire" queen she had become by the finsh of ASoS.
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She hadn't really been that much of a queen before Meereen. People followed her (but she didn't govern them in any way, she just let them walk behind her) and she commanded a few attacks but she knew jackshit about ruling an actual city peacefully (let alone seven kingdoms) and A Dance With Dragons makes that clear. It's not what people wanted, but it's what Dany needed to go through. And apart from the awkward sex scenes and a couple of chapters that could've been shortened a bit, there's absolutely nothing wrong with her chapters.

Very nearly everything in ADWD involving her was reduced to reality T.V. levels of "drama".
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The thing is, Dany IS a teenager. She's going to have teenager feelings and problems, even in ASOIAF's world (i.e. falling for the "bad boy") and because she knows she doesn't know much about ruling a city, she takes other people's advice too much into account. You might not like that but it's not reality TV drama, way to exaggerate.

Besides, she wasn't indecisive at all with a lot of matters. When people bring problems to her, she made just decisions quickly. She had made her mind about not opening the fighting pits and that held for a long time, and it wasn't until she was bombarded from all sides about doing certain things while being threatened with a war she knew she couldn't win that she started being indecisive and unsure about the things she does (who wouldn't? she thought she was doing all the right things without resorting to pointless bloodshed and still everything was going worse & worse). In the beginning she was very sure about what to do, it wasn't until everything was going down the crapper that she started hesitating, and that's completely justified.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Dany is indeed pretty ineffectual and annoying in most of the book. I think that's the point of her last chapter-- she's realized that, and stopped trying to be "nice" and "just" and is ready t seriously break out.

I expect her to return to Mereen with a zillion Dothraki and a dragon the she points and shoots, pick up her people, raze the city in flame, and fly off to Westeros.
 
Lactose_Intolerant

Lactose_Intolerant

Member
m3k said:
so one question

what of the religions in the books... we know that the old gods and rhollor are still active... do you think the drowned god and the 7 make an appearance? or are their worshippers doomed to follow rhollor... theyve got the most action going on, spreading the word and all that
Click to expand...

I don't think there are gods. Basically its magic but they turned it into religion.
 
T

tokkun

Member
Arcblade said:
Pretty much everything that happened in Mereen is antithetical to the badass, no nonsense "I am the blood of dragons, reborn of fire" queen she had become by the finsh of ASoS.
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And thank god for that. The ease at which she accomplished everything in Storm was ridiculous. She's freeing slaves, conquering cities, and being deified. It was both necessary to see that this apparent ease was superficial and refreshing to see that Dany has significant personal weaknesses too.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
One of the running themes of the series is that it is far easier to conquer than to rule, and harder still to rule well and fairly. I fully believe that the book was to establish that Dany, with the best of intentions, was mostly ineffectual and ultimately a failure. And that she'll look back on it has a huge mistake and diversion from reclaiming her birthright.
 
A

Arcblade

Banned
Ignatz Mouse said:
Dany is indeed pretty ineffectual and annoying in most of the book. I think that's the point of her last chapter-- she's realized that, and stopped trying to be "nice" and "just" and is ready t seriously break out.

I expect her to return to Mereen with a zillion Dothraki and a dragon the she points and shoots, pick up her people, raze the city in flame, and fly off to Westeros.
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ZephyrFate said:
Dragons do not plant trees.
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As it should be. :)
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Apart from a lot of arcs not really resolving (and the impending wait for TWOW) I really, really dug this book.

I'm rereading ACOK now (I reread GOT not all that long ago) and

1) While the intrigue is awesome, it's actually a little straightforward compared to the increased playfield by the time we get to ADWD

2) The prose is not up to the standard of ADWD (or GOT as I remember it)

I'm only a little ways in, so it may just have a slow start, but it does seem kind of flat and plain compared to the craziness and exotic locales in ADWD.
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
Burli said:
Well I finished ADWD last night.

I feel strange, deflated almost. I was lucky enough to discover these books late so this is the first book where I've finished without the next book waiting for me (only had to wait a couple of months for ADWD after finishing AFFC). Either way it's a horrible feeling knowing I could have to wait up to 5 years to continue the story.
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I'm in the same boat. Just finished DwD today and while I'm happy to finally be able to come into this thread and talk freely about the whole series, I'm genuinely upset that the story is at a temporary end for me. It was so awesome being able to just finish GoT and go pick up CoK the very same day and continue on with the story.

I'm thinking that I'm gonna give the whole series a re-read in a couple months time. There's a few books I want to read in the meantime, but I'm just gonna have to hope that the TV series and a reread or two keep me satisfied...... :(
 
Z

ZephyrFate

Banned
Ignatz Mouse said:
Apart from a lot of arcs not really resolving (and the impending wait for TWOW) I really, really dug this book.

I'm rereading ACOK now (I reread GOT not all that long ago) and

1) While the intrigue is awesome, it's actually a little straightforward compared to the increased playfield by the time we get to ADWD

2) The prose is not up to the standard of ADWD (or GOT as I remember it)

I'm only a little ways in, so it may just have a slow start, but it does seem kind of flat and plain compared to the craziness and exotic locales in ADWD.
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ADWD represents Martin's writing at his finest, by far. It's hard going back to the earlier books because the prose is really, really straightforward and leaves little to the imagination.
 
P

Puddles

Banned
I was re-reading parts of ASOS recently.

The scene where Dany annihilates the slavers in Astapor is amazing.

Though the Astapori yanked and tugged, Drogon would not budge off the litter. Smoke rose grey from his open jaws, and his long neck curled and straightened as he snapped at the slaver’s face.

It is time to cross the Trident, Dany thought, as she wheeled and rode her silver back. Her bloodriders moved in close around her. “You are in difficulty,” she observed.

“He will not come,” Kraznys said.

“There is a reason. A dragon is no slave.” And Dany swept the lash down as hard as she could across the slaver’s face. Kraznys screamed and staggered back, the blood running red down his cheeks into his perfumed beard. The harpy’s fingers had tom his features half to pieces with one slash, but she did not pause to contemplate the ruin. “Drogon,” she sang out loudly, sweetly, all her fear forgotten. “Dracarys.”

The black dragon spread his wings and roared.
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Also, this moment after Yunkai surrenders makes me incredibly happy:

On the morning of the third day, the city gates swung open and a line of slaves began to emerge. Dany mounted her silver to greet them. As they passed, little Missandei told them that they owed their freedom to Daenerys Stormborn, the Unburnt, Queen of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros and Mother of Dragons.

“Mhysa!” a brown-skinned man shouted out at her. He had a child on his shoulder, a little girl, and she screamed the same word in her thin voice. “Mhysa! Mhysa!”

Dany looked at Missandei. “What are they shouting?”

“It is Ghiscari, the old pure tongue. It means ‘Mother. “‘

Dany felt a lightness in her chest. I will never bear a living child, she remembered. Her hand trembled as she raised it. Perhaps she smiled. She must have, because the man grinned and shouted again, and others took up the cry. “Mhysa!” they called. “Mhysa! MHYSA!” They were all smiling at her, reaching for her, kneeling before her. “Maela,” some called her while others cried “Aelalla” or “Qathei” or “Tato,” but whatever the tongue it all meant the same thing. Mother. They are calling me Mother.
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S

SixStringPsycho

Member
Don't know if its me or no ones has noticed but I started reading a Clash of Kings and noticed there's a chapter in the HBO Series of it. Its the one with Arya when she gets pushed around. Its was weird since I thought the Series would be more faithful to the Books but they weren't. It was good but there were some details missing. That why I love reading them more. Also The series helped me out a bit with the character. Since now I know which tone they talk and how they look I read the book while imagining the Actors playing it.
 
Lactose_Intolerant

Lactose_Intolerant

Member
I'm guessing they didn't want to leave Arya's fate to be up in the air. Though I would have liked them to just have Yoren telling her she's a stupid boy and coming at her with a knife.
 
P

Puddles

Banned
I loved how they foreshadowed some of the other events of her journey with the three prisoners in the cart.

I'm really hoping that Season 2 handles The Tickler and Gregor's other men properly.
 
D

dead souls

Member
ZephyrFate said:
ADWD represents Martin's writing at his finest, by far. It's hard going back to the earlier books because the prose is really, really straightforward and leaves little to the imagination.
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Really? I couldn't disagree more. I recently reread all of ASOIAF and I'd say that ADWD features some of the worst writing since the first book. It desperately needed a few more passes by an editor. Way too much repetition of phrases and unneeded detail (used to mask the fact that many of the stories were progressing at a glacial pace, I suppose). ADWD easily could have been 200-300 pages shorter and much better for it.
 
B

bluemax

Banned
ZephyrFate said:
ADWD represents Martin's writing at his finest, by far. It's hard going back to the earlier books because the prose is really, really straightforward and leaves little to the imagination.
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Yeah those descriptions of five billion turtles are excellent fucking prose.
 
D

Duki

Banned
imo storm of swords is easily the best book but the prose was probably slightly stronger in affc

adwd isnt as good as either of those imo
 
N

nitewulf

Member
his prose is more descriptive in this book, and seem superficially better, more poetic. but i am not convinced it was necessary to add to the meat of the story itself. the lines read well, but lot of it is pointless. we know what the moon looks like against a deep blue sky, we don't need to read pretty analogues describing it in every other chapter.

aside from that, what does varys hope to accomplish exactly, and why? what does he feel he is doing, and for whom?
how did killing kevan accomplish anything? he was a good man. a capable leader, even.
 
B

bluemax

Banned
ZephyrFate said:
A lot of the issues with ADWD writing-wise can be blamed on the editor, not the author.
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George needs to stop letting fucktards like Ran and Linda edit parts of the book.

My greatest nightmare is those two twats finishing the series along with Warthead and Speakman.
 
Lactose_Intolerant

Lactose_Intolerant

Member
nitewulf said:
aside from that, what does varys hope to accomplish exactly, and why? what does he feel he is doing, and for whom?
how did killing kevan accomplish anything? he was a good man. a capable leader, even.
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That's why he had to be killed. Kevan would have eventually get the kingdom in working order. Varys wants chaos so its easier for a Targaryen heir to come into power. Kevan would be able to get everyone to work together to stop the Golden Company that arrives. With him dead, its going to be a rush of people trying to fill the vacuum. Cersei and Mace Tyrell will probably have a power struggle now. Cersei is not up to the task, Mace probably isn't either (though his mother is).
 
F

Fjordson

Member
I know this is far from the most important plot thread at the end of ADWD, but does anyone think The Hound will return in any way, shape, or form?!? He was was seriously one of my favourite characters in the series. The two book absence has been somewhat depressing.

Brienne's sudden appearance + the mention of The Hound was so fucking awesome at the end of Jaime's chapter. But then I realized that she's probably just bullshitting about The Hound being there =(
 
B

bathala

Banned
Daily Show was doing about the aging book store. To drive business back to store. Store's should have authors do a live write in.
George R.R. Martin not finishing that new Games of Throne book fast enough for u maybe a hot chai latte down his neck will speed him up.
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the accompanying graphic
6opy1h.jpg


video: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-august-16-2011/borders-goes-out-of-business
 
S

scosher

Member
bluemax said:
George needs to stop letting fucktards like Ran and Linda edit parts of the book.

My greatest nightmare is those two twats finishing the series along with Warthead and Speakman.
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Likely though, if GRRM does kick the bucket, Ran and Linda will be full time consultants for whatever ghost writer (Sanderson, Rothfuss, whoever) they get to complete ASOIAF. No other writer will be able to grasp the sheer number of characters and relationships as these two superfans can.
 
K

KingGondo

Banned
Dresden said:
I did roll my eyes when he started thanking forumgoers in the acknowledgements page.
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I think it's kinda cool, and harmless. If you've been a hardcore ASOIAF fan for that long, I don't think it's weird to thank them for making the series as popular as it is. I'm sure it made the year of everyone who was thanked.

Fjordson said:
I know this is far from the most important plot thread at the end of ADWD, but does anyone think The Hound will return in any way, shape, or form?!? He was was seriously one of my favourite characters in the series. The two book absence has been somewhat depressing.
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I think the common theory is that the Hound is alive... he was probably the gravedigger on the island that Brienne visits in AFFC. The traveling septon (can't remember his name) says that "the Hound is dead," not that Sandor Clegane is dead.

I can't imagine that he won't get involved again in the conflict.
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
To be honest, even if its posted online, I couldn't read it. I have such an aversion to spoilers that I dont even read the backs of books.
 
Freshmaker

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
Seanspeed said:
To be honest, even if its posted online, I couldn't read it. I have such an aversion to spoilers that I dont even read the backs of books.
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I dunno. Reading about Dany and that burnt kid left me content to wait indefinitely. I thought, a book dedicated to her? Ugh. I'm 100% more invested in the maid of Tarth.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
ultron87 said:
So how long was the gap between the first DwD sample chapter and the book actually coming out?
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ADWD sample chapters were read before AFFC and ADWD were split, so probably something like 8 or 9 years.

Apparently the TWOW chapter he read belongs to Arienne.
 
E

elrechazado

Banned
scosher said:
Likely though, if GRRM does kick the bucket, Ran and Linda will be full time consultants for whatever ghost writer (Sanderson, Rothfuss, whoever) they get to complete ASOIAF. No other writer will be able to grasp the sheer number of characters and relationships as these two superfans can.
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rothfuss? gtfo
 
H

Hasphat'sAnts

Member
Freshmaker said:
I dunno. Reading about Dany and that burnt kid left me content to wait indefinitely. I thought, a book dedicated to her? Ugh. I'm 100% more invested in the maid of Tarth.
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Wait, are we sure TWoW is mostly Dany?

That'd be terrible.
 
P

Pkaz01

Member
Aw I was hoping it was a sansa or arya chapter. I like the dorne stuff but prefer Hotah to Arianne she annoys me. still interesting that he is releasing this stuff so early.
 
T

tokkun

Member
So is this thread going to have unmarked spoilers from these sample chapters of the next book?

I regretted reading the sample ADWD spoiler chapters years ago.
 
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