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[ultron87]

I've got a question for you all; not sure if I fell asleep while reading this one late night or what have you, but where is the plotline where Davos goes to find Rickon started? I honestly don't remember reading it. And, truth be told, I can't put together why Stannis would send Davos to find him. Was Stannis even told that Bran and Rickon are alive?

It doesn't start till after Davos is "hanged". Manderley sends him after Rickon following that.

And that is all we hear about it, since Davos is one of those "first half of the book only" characters.

 

[Vinrau]

I've got a question for you all; not sure if I fell asleep while reading this one late night or what have you, but where is the plotline where Davos goes to find Rickon started? I honestly don't remember reading it. And, truth be told, I can't put together why Stannis would send Davos to find him. Was Stannis even told that Bran and Rickon are alive?

When Davos is taken from his cell at White Harbor he is brought to Lord Manderley who informs him that the boys are alive. He is the one who sets Davos off to find Rickon.
"The North Remembers"

 

[KingGondo]

Nah....Stoneheart is just an angry undead woman.

It's kind of amazing how GRRM manages to make Catelyn even less sympathetic after she's been betrayed and brutally murdered with her son.

Hate. Her.

 

[Basileus777]

And, truth be told, I can't put together why Stannis would send Davos to find him. Was Stannis even told that Bran and Rickon are alive?

Wyman Manderly sends Davos to find Rickon as his price for supporting Stannis. I believe it was in Davos' 4th chapter that this happens.

 

[Mordeccai]

Gotcha, I was definitely nodding away during that chapter as the details of all that are very fuzzy. Guess thats what I get for reading at 3 AM most nights!

Thanks for the replies everyone. On another note, I'm on my second reread of the series, and I'm loving it so much more. No book has ever grabbed me like these have, I've had no issues finishing up ADWD and going straight back into GOT a day later.

 

[Pollux]

It's kind of amazing how GRRM manages to make Catelyn even less sympathetic after she's been betrayed and brutally murdered with her son.

Hate. Her.

It just shows what an unimaginable bitch she was in real life, that after everything that happens to her we STILL want more horrible things to happen.

Does ANYONE actually like her?

 

[tmdorsey]

It just shows what an unimaginable bitch she was in real life, that after everything that happens to her we STILL want more horrible things to happen.

Does ANYONE actually like her?

I don't particularly care for her, but Cersei Lannister is the one who hasn't had enough horrible things happen to her, Walk of Shame be damned. I want her alone in alley with Arya and Nymeria.

 

[dabig2]

It just shows what an unimaginable bitch she was in real life, that after everything that happens to her we STILL want more horrible things to happen.

Does ANYONE actually like her?

I like and support her now that she's a walking zombie of hatred and vengeance. Makes her infinitely more interesting and I'll be rooting for her to murder many, many, many Freys and Lannisters hopefully in these last 2 books.

 

[tmdorsey]

I like and support her now that she's a walking zombie of hatred and vengeance. Makes her infinitely more interesting and I'll be rooting for her to murder many, many, many Freys and Lannisters hopefully in these last 2 books.

Don't forget the Boltons.

 

[TCRS]

HE KILLED HIM!!

Spoiler

OMFG GEORGE KILLED JON SNOW!!!

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

omgomgomgomg... no way dude... no way... I can't continue, I can't finish this book..

he killed him...

 

[TheGuardian]

HE KILLED HIM!!

Spoiler

OMFG GEORGE KILLED JON SNOW!!!

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

omgomgomgomg... no way dude... no way... I can't continue, I can't finish this book..

he killed him...

I don't believe it until we see the next book. The way that chapter ends is too easy to turn around.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Don't worry, he's in Ghost.

 

[Pollux]

HE KILLED HIM!!

Spoiler

OMFG GEORGE KILLED JON SNOW!!!

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

omgomgomgomg... no way dude... no way... I can't continue, I can't finish this book..

he killed him...

Calm down he's not dead yet. He's in Ghost or he's wounded.

 

[UraMallas]

Don't forget the Boltons.

The Boltons especially for me. I find them to be the most despicable, for whatever reason.

 

[petethepanda]

I doubt he's wounded, if he's profusely bleeding from his throat and finding it hard to move his limbs that's not a great sign lol, but yeah he'll probably be chilling in Ghost for a while since otherwise that prologue was entirely pointless.

I've convinced so many friends to read the series since season one of the show ended. The constant trickle of "WHAT THE FUCK MAN" messages as people reach the Red Wedding is amazing.

 

[TCRS]

Done. The worst of the five books in my opinion. Not bad, but certainly not as good as the first three. Not much happened and the Tyrion chapters were shockingly boring.

George had to do something and he fucking killed off Jon Snow. I know I know, it's not certain, but he was stabbed three times! Oh well.. we'll see (in six years).

Don't know what to make of the epilogue. The Grand Maester and another Lannister dead. Why? I don't get it.

 

[dead souls]

Yeah, the worst thing about ADWD is how it made me dread getting to a Tyrion chapter.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Done. The worst of the five books in my opinion. Not bad, but certainly not as good as the first three. Not much happened and the Tyrion chapters were shockingly boring.

George had to do something and he fucking killed off Jon Snow. I know I know, it's not certain, but he was stabbed three times! Oh well.. we'll see (in six years).

Don't know what to make of the epilogue. The Grand Maester and another Lannister dead. Why? I don't get it.

They were too good at restoring order. Varys needs chaos for whatever game he's playing. With Kevan and Pycelle out of the way Cersei is free to do whatever crazy shit she's going to do and piss off the Tyrells.

 

[SyNapSe]

I just finished last week It mostly sat there as I found it pretty boring until the second half.
Then the second half failed to deliver on most of the POV's. Hell half of them were just dropped and no more chapters were wrote.

- I liked Arya's part other than the fact that it seems she'll have to lose her lust for revenge :\ I really enjoyed the list of names and looked forward to her getting them back but it seems that will be out of the cards.
- Bran. Didn't deliver. He gets there and then it's dropped basically half way through the book.
- Stannis. We got nothing in the end. I had to read what seemed like 40 pages about how it was cold and there wasn't enough food. For all that, I get a letter that's probably half lies and nothing else.
- Davos - sent on a quest. POV dropped after that..
- Daenerys. I don't really mind the way it's left hanging as she's going to return to a city with huge problems to solve but there was too much writing for nothing to really change.
- Tyrion, Mormont, and Penny. Never make it to Daenerys. Penny had better make some major impact in the future story because I had to read a ton about her feelings.
- Connington and possbily fake Targ. This part of the story actually went somewhere as they end up in Westeros reclaiming Conningtons land & castle.
- Jon snow. I liked this part of the story and I think it ended fine.
- Reek/Theon - boring. I know he wanted to setup that Reek was so broken he'd never think of betraying Bolton but it just went on too long.
- Manderly - fuck the Freys! Good work
- Cersei - I suppose this part of the story delivered
- Jaime - another one who disappeared halfway through the book
- Quentyn Martell and group. Way too much detail if that was all that was going to happen.

Was there a hint in the book about who Jon's mother was? I thought I remembered reading something but I can't fully remember now.

edit: my complaint is mostly that you can't leave almost every POV hanging without much delivery. Sure, some are going to be cliffhangers like Jon and Danny but geez. It seemed like almost all the POVs were cliffhangers or the person got to their destination and then you never heard anything again. it seemed like a lot of filler to me.

 

[LegendofJoe]

There definitely was a lot of filler. It was inexcusable not to resolve the Winterfell showdown and what was going on in Merreen. Martin needs a hardline editor that will lay down the law if this series is to get back on course.

 

[apana]

This is a random question but Bran is paralyzed so how does he poop? I thought people these days use catheters in order to solve that problem but they didn't have that back in the old days.

 

[Victarion]

The only stories that I cared about in this book were Jon's and Bran's, now if Jon is really dead I'll drop this fucking book. And the worst part is that we won't know until 6 years later.

 

[Emerson]

There definitely was a lot of filler. It was inexcusable not to resolve the Winterfell showdown and what was going on in Merreen. Martin needs a hardline editor that will law down the law if this series is to get back on course.

It's the editors fault that the book came out like it did. GRRM has said he was forced to remove two major events from the end of this book and it's pretty clear what they were.

 

[shira]

This is a random question but Bran is paralyzed so how does he poop? I thought people these days use catheters in order to solve that problem but they didn't have that back in the old days.

I hope you mean diaper because rectal catheter is not pretty.

 

[SyNapSe]

It's the editors fault that the book came out like it did. GRRM has said he was forced to remove two major events from the end of this book and it's pretty clear what they were.

If anything he needed stronger editors. I'm sure there was pressure by the publishing house and editors to release it at that time (due to the TV show) but the book had been worked on for half a decade. At some point, you have to actually release it.

He needed an editor strong enough to tell him that potentially 100's of pages of the book could be cut out and nothing would have been lost.

 

[LegendofJoe]

If anything he needed stronger editors. I'm sure there was pressure by the publishing house and editors to release it at that time (due to the TV show) but the book had been worked on for half a decade. At some point, you have to actually release it.

He needed an editor strong enough to tell him that potentially 100's of pages of the book could be cut out and nothing would have been lost.

Amen

 

[KingK]

This is a random question but Bran is paralyzed so how does he poop? I thought people these days use catheters in order to solve that problem but they didn't have that back in the old days.

He probably just has Summer drag him out to a bush or something.

 

[dead souls]

If anything he needed stronger editors. I'm sure there was pressure by the publishing house and editors to release it at that time (due to the TV show) but the book had been worked on for half a decade. At some point, you have to actually release it.

He needed an editor strong enough to tell him that potentially 100's of pages of the book could be cut out and nothing would have been lost.

Exactly. It could have been cut by 1/3 to 1/2 the length and been none the worse.

After AFFC and ADWD I'm convinced that whatever Martin once had he's lost. I'm not even looking forward to the next novel.

 

[Pollux]

Exactly. It could have been cut by 1/3 to 1/2 the length and been none the worse.

After AFFC and ADWD I'm convinced that whatever Martin once had he's lost. I'm not even looking forward to the next novel.

I'm looking forward to it in the sense that I want to know what happened to characters that I love. I want to know what happened. But the man who could tell a story like the man who wrote Game of Thrones is gone. It's actually pretty damn sad.

As someone said earlier, if THIS Martin wrote GOT then we would have had 200 pages of someone on Dragonstone telling us about Stannis and ship building.

 

[Maffis]

So what was the point of Quentyn Martell? So many chapters and pages just for releasing the dragons and dying.

I guess it will change the relationships with Dorne and Daenerys maybe in the future (if they think it's Daenerys's fault for him dying), but other than that it felt so pointless. Someone else could've released the dragons, like Selmy.

 

[fanboi]

As many stated I think ADWD is a build up for the next one where shit will go down.

 

[elrechazado]

As many stated I think ADWD is a build up for the next one where shit will go down.

yeah, except people said the same thing about the last one.

 

[Maffis]

I really hope Theon dies. I feel no sympathy at all for him. He killed 2 innocent children and their mother just to feign Bran's and Rickon's deaths, and then went on to kill other people in Winterfell, people that trusted him.

Fuck Theon.

 

[suzu]

I feel bad for him, even though he is a douche. lol. I hope he redeems himself in an awesome way, at least before he gets off'd or something.

 

[Puddles]

It just shows what an unimaginable bitch she was in real life, that after everything that happens to her we STILL want more horrible things to happen.

Does ANYONE actually like her?

I love Catelyn, and I hope Lady Stoneheart features prominently in Winds.

 

[Gambit]

I really hope Theon dies. I feel no sympathy at all for him. He killed 2 innocent children and their mother just to feign Bran's and Rickon's deaths, and then went on to kill other people in Winterfell, people that trusted him.

Fuck Theon.

I am glad he is still there and found his chapters quite interesting. However, I do hope he gets killed in a very brutal way. As I said elsewhere, the ideal for me would be that he is somewhat recovered, has vital information for the Starks and wants to deliver it to them; and before he gets the chance (he must be close), Jon or Stoneheart kill him.

That way he is killed, but you'd still scream "noooo!" even though you hate him. That would be the good old Martin way.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Personally, I loved ADWD, but I only waited 2-3 years for it, since I started the series after AFFC was out.

I liked the Quentin stuff, too-- as we are clearly nearing some convergence/resolution, he shows that the stakes are high and most people are going to lose.

 

[Binabik15]

Personally, I loved ADWD, but I only waited 2-3 years for it, since I started the series after AFFC was out.

I liked the Quentin stuff, too-- as we are clearly nearing some convergence/resolution, he shows that the stakes are high and most people are going to lose.

I love the whole series. Waited since a bit before AFFC.


I´m going over the Westeros forum for the first time.

Seems like the only thing I´ve really missed was the implication that Manderly made Frey pie and that there might be an ice dragon beneath Winterfell (or I have forgotten that). Old Nan mentions it in a story or what?

I´m not sure that Manderly would eat the pie knowing that it´s made of humans, even if he´s hell bent on revenge. Would be funny, though, seeing how his son was fed by/with Vargo Hoat

 

[elrechazado]

I really hope Theon dies. I feel no sympathy at all for him. He killed 2 innocent children and their mother just to feign Bran's and Rickon's deaths, and then went on to kill other people in Winterfell, people that trusted him.

Fuck Theon.

smallfolk don't count as people.

 

[tmdorsey]

yeah, except people said the same thing about the last one.

I don't know why they would continue to think that when they found out the book was going to cover the same time period as AFFC.

 

[Apath]

I really hope Theon dies. I feel no sympathy at all for him. He killed 2 innocent children and their mother just to feign Bran's and Rickon's deaths, and then went on to kill other people in Winterfell, people that trusted him.

Fuck Theon.

I hope Theon redeems himself in the end.

I feel bad for him, even though he is a douche. lol. I hope he redeems himself in an awesome way, at least before he gets off'd or something.

Yeah, basically this. He needs to die for what he did, but I still feel he is a very sympathizing character. I can definitely get a sense of regret and shame reading his chapters.

Maybe he will die saving the Stark house in some way. Dunno. I just hope something bitter sweet is in store for him.

 

[apana]

The Theon chapters were some of the strongest parts of the books. I loved ADWD but I think it could have been improved a bit, it doesn't quite reach classic status for me like the first three books did.

 

[TCRS]

I just realised that for people who read ASOS in 2000, these were the first Tyrion chapters in 11 years. 11 years! I only had to wait for a year and was already disappointed by them, how disappointed must those people be? Would be interesting to hear from someone who read ASOS back then.

 

[Duki]

Seems like the only thing I´ve really missed was the implication that Manderly made Frey pie and that there might be an ice dragon beneath Winterfell (or I have forgotten that). Old Nan mentions it in a story or what?

lmao

thatd be so retarded

 

[poisonelf]

Just finished the book. I'm so disappointed and frustrated that I honestly don't know if I'll be buying the next one or simply go through some wiki to see what happens. All those years of waiting for him to go all Jordan and give us a book where 2/3 of the pages are boring, useless drivel. Hey, more books, more money, people are buying, make it longer !!1!1 Fuck this, respect your readers, I want a refund for that hard cover shit.

The thing is I had just re-read the first 3 (wiki'd AFFC) to remember what happened, and I was again enthralled and awed by them, it's almost as if it's a different writer.

Daenerys suddenly turns into a retarded simpleton, not to mention the endless chapters of her SITTING ON A HARD BENCH. OH HOW MANY WAYS TO DESCRIBE THIS.
Tyrion somehow manages to become boring, but hey, an exciting new character, an unimportant, scared dwarf girl and a pig.
We need to learn the exact lists of the Wall's provisions, the names and nicknames of each insignificant guard, to read more than ten times that Davos lost his sons and is reaching for his fingers.
Endless chapters of Theon and his torment in a way that I felt as if he just read a psychology handbook and wanted to describe it.
And all that for 200 or so pages of actual important, interesting things, with nothing concluding.

Oh, and he 'kills' Jon to remind us that he's the man who breaks the tropes. Well, at this point, if Jon is dead, it's just trolling and stupid. There is no way for the reader to care for any of these new bland characters the way we care for those from the start of the saga, and precious few remain.

Almost garbage.

 

[jett]

Theon deserves death. I have to say I'm glad he has suffered as much as he did at the hands of Ramsay. He has been completely destroyed. Fuck some bullshit redemption. The sooner he's dead the better. I hope it's extremely painful.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

Just finished the book. I'm so disappointed and frustrated that I honestly don't know if I'll be buying the next one or simply go through some wiki to see what happens. All those years of waiting for him to go all Jordan and give us a book where 2/3 of the pages are boring, useless drivel. Hey, more books, more money, people are buying, make it longer !!1!1 Fuck this, respect your readers, I want a refund for that hard cover shit.

The thing is I had just re-read the first 3 (wiki'd AFFC) to remember what happened, and I was again enthralled and awed by them, it's almost as if it's a different writer.

Daenerys suddenly turns into a retarded simpleton, not to mention the endless chapters of her SITTING ON A HARD BENCH. OH HOW MANY WAYS TO DESCRIBE THIS.
Tyrion somehow manages to become boring, but hey, an exciting new character, an unimportant, scared dwarf girl and a pig.
We need to learn the exact lists of the Wall's provisions, the names and nicknames of each insignificant guard, to read more than ten times that Davos lost his sons and is reaching for his fingers.
Endless chapters of Theon and his torment in a way that I felt as if he just read a psychology handbook and wanted to describe it.
And all that for 200 or so pages of actual important, interesting things, with nothing concluding.

Oh, and he 'kills' Jon to remind us that he's the man who breaks the tropes. Well, at this point, if Jon is dead, it's just trolling and stupid. There is no way for the reader to care for any of these new bland characters the way we care for those from the start of the saga, and precious few remain.

Almost garbage.

Ummm...yeah it's not as good as the rest of the series. In fact, I'd say it's so bad, it has ruined the rest of the books. Not retracing the old books anymore and not looking forward to the next one. I say he takes his sweet time.

 

[jett]

The shatting chapter is the lowest point of GRRM's writing career.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

The shatting chapter is the lowest point of GRRM's writing career.

I dunno, we've lived through fat pink masts and titty milk in one chapter.

edit: I have zero sympathy for Theon too. Fuck him.

 

[Apath]

Theon deserves death. I have to say I'm glad he has suffered as much as he did at the hands of Ramsay. He has been completely destroyed. Fuck some bullshit redemption. The sooner he's dead the better. I hope it's extremely painful.

You can't sympathize with his character in the least bit? His actions in betraying the Starks are actually understandable when you know his character and motivations. When Theon realizes he is done in for, but the Maester informs him that he can always take the black, I actually felt legitimate feelings of shame, guilt, and hope for him. The thought that he realized the foolishness of his ways, and that maybe it's not too late for it to be fixed. Then it all goes to shit.

He has now been thrown to the absolute bottom one can go without being killed. He has been tortured, his looks and confidence destroyed. He is now just a broken vessel. Watching him regain who he once was, so that just maybe one day he can undo what his foolishness lead to, is the only purpose left for him. And personally I love that kind of story arc.