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[apana]

It's funny that we still don't know what the title of whole series is actually referring to. I was hoping to see Marwyn from the Citadel show up in Meereen and drop some wisdom on the matter. But maybe it'll be better if Vic rips his head off in dramatic fashion and leaves the prophecy in obscurity. He doesn't like maesters.

There are some other interesting visions from the House of the Undying. And this is just the second book.

5) a cloth dragon amidst a cheering crowd; -- the mummer's dragon (Aegon) receiving a warm welcome in Westeros? watch out for fire

8) a corpse at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, smiling sadly; -- sounds like Aemon? dies on a ship, blind, but sees the truth about Dany and AA at the end

15) a line of naked crones emerging from a lake, kneeling before Daenerys beneath the Mother of Mountains; -- aha, who wants to guess where Dany takes her new khalasar after leaving Meereen

I like interpreting these visions, especially Bran's first vision. Here are some important parts:

"He lifted his eyes and saw clear across the narrow sea, to the Free Cities and the green Dothraki sea and beyond, to Vaes Dothrak under its mountain, to the fabled lands of the Jade Sea, to Asshai by the Shadow, where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise".

Bran saw dragons in Asshai, does that mean Dany will go there or is that vision simply referring to the fact that her dragon eggs came from Assahi?


"Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him ... North and north and north he looked, to the curtain of light at the end of the world, and then beyond that curtain. He looked deep into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of his tears burned his cheeks."

This is an important part. Bran saw Jon sleeping in a cold bed as all the memory of warmth fled him. So I guess George is hinting about Jon's eventual fate?

Also that part about the curtain of light is interesting. I think Bran and some other characters will have to go there. Remember part of Quaithe's prophecy to Dany:

“"To go north, you must go south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow."

I wonder if the Quaithe is leading Dany the wrong way. Dany will take her army and pass under the shadow at Asshai intending to reach Westeros but she will actually reach the land of forever winter.

 

[jon bones]

“"To go north, you must go south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow."

I wonder if the Quaithe is leading Dany the wrong way. Dany will take her army and pass under the shadow at Asshai intending to reach Westeros but she will actually reach the land of forever winter.

i believe the land of forever winter is on westeros

 

[Famassu]

I disagree - if anything we have even more storylines coming out of dwd. Aegon, who didn't exist before now in the story, connington, davos going to find rickon....tons of "off main story" threads that have now come to be. I'm not saying I don't like them, but the story continues to expand, rather than gather together.

Yeah, but

1) Aegon will almost 100% surely tie to Dorne's ambitious plans, which we already know of and which don't have to be introduced again, pushing that subplot into (faster) motion instead of Martell's waiting for Dany. They can just be all Martells: "oh, you're a Targaryen, seems like you had nothing to do with the death of my son, so you'll be the Targaryen we'll be behind of from now on (if you agree to marry my daughter) instead of that bitch who let her dragons burn my son" -> Aegon: "ok, cool, let's march towards King's Landing right away." So instead of having to introduce what Dorne & Martells are all about, Martin can just focus on taking the story forward since we already know Dorne's relationship with the Targaryens, their plans for the future and Aegon's past. Sort of like how Ned's injury in GoT puts the gears REALLY into full motion after, what, 400-500 pages of build-up. Aegon's arrival to Westeros will likely speed up resolving any & all build-up that has been done @ King's Landing and non-Vale/North parts of Westeros (especially in regards to the Lannisters & Tyrell's bickering for power, maybe they'll join forces again in fear of this new Targaryen and be dealt with by Aegon)

2) Davos going to fetch Rickon from the unicorn cannibal island ties to the North's attempt of getting Winterfell back from southern Lannister dogs. We could begin TWOW & Davos's storyline of searching for Rickon with Davos already having located him and there maybe being some problem in getting him back and/or escaping the island. Doesn't necessarily need much more than two or three chapters to resolve, after which he could be taken to Stannis.

3) A few characters are coming together or are not a part of the story anymore. Instead of having four completely separate storylines characters like Tyrion, Dany, Quentyn & Victarion very much do in ADWD, one of those characters is dead now and three of them could get together at least temporarily, advancing the same storyline in Meereen (that is, getting Dany to Westeros by resolving the situation in Meereen), and there's also that Red Priest with Victarion who might spread all that Azor Ahai prohpecy into Dany's ears, which might end up leading her to fight the Great Other instead of fighting for the Iron Throne first. Same goes for Theon, Asha & Stannis, who are in the same deep hole for the time being. Even though they were in completely different places, the story brought them all together. When/If they get out of it, Stannis might help Theon & Asha reclaim rule over the Iron Isles, which could perhaps be loyal to Stannis then, resolving the Iron Isles subplot (not that it will happen that easily, necessarily). Same goes for combining certain characters from AFFC + ADWD, like how Brienne & Jaime's fate is clearly tied together at the moment - and might be in the future too, if they live.

4) much of AFFC was showing the shitty state of Westeros. No need to have, like, 16 Brienne chapters only for that purpose in any upcoming books, which'll free lots of chapters for advancing the story instead of post-Red Wedding world-building. I mean, just compare Jaime's chapter in ADWD to his chapters in travelling through Westeros in ASOS or Brienne's chapters in AFFC. Very little slow world building and joyriding through Westeros, very much getting things done by dealing with that one castle and then going off with Brienne.

 

[AngmarsKing701]

sounds like Connington to me


I can't believe people are so anxious to get the story done and HAS to be done in 2 books. I guess I'm the kind of reader that hopes stories as good as these never end.. do you sit back during a great movie and say "shit when will this awesomeness end?"

To some extent I agree with you. But the Wheel of Time is, to me, a recent reminder of how things can go horribly wrong if you don't progress toward some of the major objectives. By the time we hit book 7, 8 etc, AWoT was off the tracks. Nothing was happening. It just didn't feel like progression. I gave up on it.

The other concern is whether the author can live long enough to see the whole thing written.

I agree that 5 more books would be fantastic, especially if they are as good as ADWD. But if that takes 25 years then ugh.

 

[TTG]

We've now got at least three red priests, their agenda can be revealed & taken forward with all three of them (revealing one thing about R'hllor & stuff with Melisandre, taking it forward with that one red priest who is currently with Victarion, then there's that flaming sword one with Lady Stoneheart, forgot his name). The Others are probably going to tie very closely to that part of the story, so they don't need to be this completely separate thing from everything else.

Isn't the masked woman from Asshai that keeps haunting Dany also a red priestess? Or was that just something else? Then we also have all the followers in Volantis stirring up shit. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Dany rolls through Volantis before setting off for the Westeros or Pentos. Anyway here's what I would expect from the next book:

Dany gathering up her strength. Despite the last chapter, riding Drogon should be a turning point, where things start going her way again. She needs capable advisers around besides Barriston, which will hopefully mean Tyrion and the maester. Who knows where Victarion ends up, he may provide her a fleet to cross or prove to be an enemy.

A lot of Davos/Rickon, which should be fun. There always seems to be a real adventure vibe going on with one POVs in every book. So we had Tyrion last time, Brienne before that and Arya before that, now we get Davos, really looking forward to it.

The others will be a big focus. There must be some intelligence controlling them, maybe we get a look at it here. Maybe we find out through Jon still, maybe not.

Finally, Little finger will be up to some BS. Everyone is still blind to the totality of the suffering he's responsible for. Bolton and the Mountain are obvious butchers, but he's instigated a lot of the Stark/Lannister conflict and most recently he's obviously killed Joffrey off as well.

 

[platypotamus]

The others will be a big focus. There must be some intelligence controlling them, maybe we get a look at it here. Maybe we find out through Jon still, maybe not.

Finally, Little finger will be up to some BS. Everyone is still blind to the totality of the suffering he's responsible for. Bolton and the Mountain are obvious butchers, but he's instigated a lot of the Stark/Lannister conflict and most recently he's obviously killed Joffrey off as well.

And so, he was redeemed, pardoned for all previous crimes, and granted the iron throne.

 

[sooperkool]

i believe the land of forever winter is on westeros

Its north of the wall, north of Threnn if you go by the maps in ADWD

 

[pr0cs]

To some extent I agree with you. But the Wheel of Time is, to me, a recent reminder of how things can go horribly wrong if you don't progress toward some of the major objectives. By the time we hit book 7, 8 etc, AWoT was off the tracks. Nothing was happening. It just didn't feel like progression. I gave up on it.

I haven't read a series that had this problem (didn't read WOT) but I know what you're saying. You could say that Dany's chapters in ADWD started having this problem but I also think the knot influenced her chapters. Considering how good the rest of ADWD was I'm not convinced that Martin is having a problem progressing toward something yet.

The other concern is whether the author can live long enough to see the whole thing written.

He could get hit by a bus tomorrow, it's out of our hands. I'll sit on the side of more great content is better than less, rushed content.

I agree that 5 more books would be fantastic, especially if they are as good as ADWD. But if that takes 25 years then ugh.

it's a sign as to how good the books are when we're all crying at how long it may be for when the next book is released.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Doing a slow re-read really turned out to be a good idea. I'm catching a lot more details than I did the first time through: stuff like the innkeep in Stoney Sept being called Tansy, which is the name Hoster keeps saying through ACoK/ASoS. Not sure it has any significance though. :lol

I still can't remember any names from beyond the Narrow Sea, though. The part where Dany's convinced there's someone in her cabin on the Balerion and shouts the name "Qaithe", I was lost. I didn't remember Qaithe at all, until I remembered they cast her a while ago. :lol

 

[Fjordson]

A lot of Davos/Rickon, which should be fun. There always seems to be a real adventure vibe going on with one POVs in every book. So we had Tyrion last time, Brienne before that and Arya before that, now we get Davos, really looking forward to it.

Totally agreed. I always love those (yes, even the Brienne chapters).

Man, I can't wait for Winds of Winter

Spoiler

=(

 

[Duki]

I like interpreting these visions, especially Bran's first vision. Here are some important parts:

"He lifted his eyes and saw clear across the narrow sea, to the Free Cities and the green Dothraki sea and beyond, to Vaes Dothrak under its mountain, to the fabled lands of the Jade Sea, to Asshai by the Shadow, where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise".

Bran saw dragons in Asshai, does that mean Dany will go there or is that vision simply referring to the fact that her dragon eggs came from Assahi?

i always took it to mean that the shadow was equivalent to the land of always winter; the shadow belonging the r'hllor and the loaw to the great other

and that dragons and wyrms were beasts of whatever r'hllor really is, and therefore originated in the shadow, while the others and the dead were of the great other and from whatever is up far north

i dunno why it just made sense to me it could be totally wrong

Doing a slow re-read really turned out to be a good idea. I'm catching a lot more details than I did the first time through: stuff like the innkeep in Stoney Sept being called Tansy, which is the name Hoster keeps saying through ACoK/ASoS. Not sure it has any significance though. :lol

lol yeah its just a red herring to surprise you when you find out about the abortion
oh and also i like how if this is right then r'hollrs place is described as shadow while bran describes the great other's as light :3

 

[Blue Ninja]

lol yeah its just a red herring to surprise you when you find out about the abortion
oh and also i like how if this is right then r'hollrs place is described as shadow while bran describes the great other's as light :3

Yeah, that's what I figured. There's so much detail in this series, goddamn.

 

[apana]

Who were the people that stabbed Jon? He was stabbed four times right? Is it possible that one of those stabbings could have been from the dead people he had in his prison? Maybe they did actually turn into wights, escaped, scared Wun Wun, and then stabbed Jon and the other members of the night's watch.

 

[jon bones]

Who were the people that stabbed Jon? He was stabbed four times right? Is it possible that one of those stabbings could have been from the dead people he had in his prison? Maybe they did actually turn into wights, escaped, scared Wun Wun, and then stabbed Jon and the other members of the night's watch.

they specifically say it's his brothers in the night's watch.

 

[apana]

they specifically say it's his brothers in the night's watch.

I only remember them talking about Wick and Bowen Marsh. Wick missed, Bowen Marsh stabbed him in the belly and then someone put a third and fourth dagger in him. I just wondered why after the third dagger he felt cold all of a sudden. I suppose it could just be the snow on his face.

 

[Fjordson]

I only remember them talking about Wick and Bowen Marsh. Wick missed, Bowen Marsh stabbed him in the belly and then someone put a third and fourth dagger in him. I just wondered why after the third dagger he felt cold all of a sudden. I suppose it could just be the snow on his face.

Isn't feeling cold a trope for when someone is dying? Or about to die? Seeing a light or feeling cold/numb, etc. I'm probably taking that way too literally considering this is ASOIF, but what's what I was thinking.

 

[jon bones]

i don't really remember but i think it's cold near the wall

 

[PhoenixDark]

Yeah, but

1) Aegon will almost 100% surely tie to Dorne's ambitious plans, which we already know of and which don't have to be introduced again, pushing that subplot into (faster) motion instead of Martell's waiting for Dany. They can just be all Martells: "oh, you're a Targaryen, seems like you had nothing to do with the death of my son, so you'll be the Targaryen we'll be behind of from now on (if you agree to marry my daughter) instead of that bitch who let her dragons burn my son" -> Aegon: "ok, cool, let's march towards King's Landing right away." So instead of having to introduce what Dorne & Martells are all about, Martin can just focus on taking the story forward since we already know Dorne's relationship with the Targaryens, their plans for the future and Aegon's past. Sort of like how Ned's injury in GoT puts the gears REALLY into full motion after, what, 400-500 pages of build-up. Aegon's arrival to Westeros will likely speed up resolving any & all build-up that has been done @ King's Landing and non-Vale/North parts of Westeros (especially in regards to the Lannisters & Tyrell's bickering for power, maybe they'll join forces again in fear of this new Targaryen and be dealt with by Aegon)

2) Davos going to fetch Rickon from the unicorn cannibal island ties to the North's attempt of getting Winterfell back from southern Lannister dogs. We could begin TWOW & Davos's storyline of searching for Rickon with Davos already having located him and there maybe being some problem in getting him back and/or escaping the island. Doesn't necessarily need much more than two or three chapters to resolve, after which he could be taken to Stannis.

3) A few characters are coming together or are not a part of the story anymore. Instead of having four completely separate storylines characters like Tyrion, Dany, Quentyn & Victarion very much do in ADWD, one of those characters is dead now and three of them could get together at least temporarily, advancing the same storyline in Meereen (that is, getting Dany to Westeros by resolving the situation in Meereen), and there's also that Red Priest with Victarion who might spread all that Azor Ahai prohpecy into Dany's ears, which might end up leading her to fight the Great Other instead of fighting for the Iron Throne first. Same goes for Theon, Asha & Stannis, who are in the same deep hole for the time being. Even though they were in completely different places, the story brought them all together. When/If they get out of it, Stannis might help Theon & Asha reclaim rule over the Iron Isles, which could perhaps be loyal to Stannis then, resolving the Iron Isles subplot (not that it will happen that easily, necessarily). Same goes for combining certain characters from AFFC + ADWD, like how Brienne & Jaime's fate is clearly tied together at the moment - and might be in the future too, if they live.

4) much of AFFC was showing the shitty state of Westeros. No need to have, like, 16 Brienne chapters only for that purpose in any upcoming books, which'll free lots of chapters for advancing the story instead of post-Red Wedding world-building. I mean, just compare Jaime's chapter in ADWD to his chapters in travelling through Westeros in ASOS or Brienne's chapters in AFFC. Very little slow world building and joyriding through Westeros, very much getting things done by dealing with that one castle and then going off with Brienne.

Dunno what books you've been reading. Remember the general assumptions about the progress that would be made in ADWD? How did those work out. I see no reason to believe TWOW won't feature scores of new characters and more new plots stacked on top of the ones from ADWD.

In short, while I'm sure the book will be great I'm not getting my hopes up for an action packed novel, even though it seems likely. But I thought the same of ADWD (which I really liked btw).

 

[Fjordson]

i don't really remember but i think it's cold near the wall

Well yeah, I guess it could just be that.

 

[brentech]

Dunno what books you've been reading. Remember the general assumptions about the progress that would be made in ADWD? How did those work out. I see no reason to believe TWOW won't feature scores of new characters and more new plots stacked on top of the ones from ADWD.

In short, while I'm sure the book will be great I'm not getting my hopes up for an action packed novel, even though it seems likely. But I thought the same of ADWD (which I really liked btw).

I totally get your skepticism about a bunch happening, but I kind of think stuff will get moving myself.

COK seemed like a lot of plotting, and while a battle occurred, much of Tyrion's plans still had to run a course which mostly broke down, but came to a conclusion of sorts in SOS. Same with other characters in COK that tried to set stuff up.

So with Feast and ADWD being pretty heavy in the plotting line, I do believe winds will probably be the super climax of the series (bearing he sticks to 7 book plan). One way or another, Winds feels really ripe for a lot of progression.

ADWD really wasn't set up (in my opinion) to move everything, as it had to run concurrent with all that happened in Feast. When I finished Feast, I thought Tyrion must of had something to do with what was going on with Cersie, but he had his own shit to get through as it turned out.
Winds just seems way more primed for story progression while Spring should be cleaning up the pieces and getting the world in order. Hopefully it doesn't end with a big cliff hanger or some shit.

 

[Famassu]

Dunno what books you've been reading. Remember the general assumptions about the progress that would be made in ADWD? How did those work out.

Well, making assumptions about ASOIAF books never work really well. But I don't think nothing happened in ADWD. Some people just forgot that ADWD would be AFFC Part 2. And people exaggerate how little happens in ADWD. Plenty happens in ADWD, even in Meereen (you don't have a major part of a continent at war if that was the case). I think Meereen is pretty much what King's Landing was in ACOK (right down to Tyrion obsessing about Shae <-> Dany obsessing about Daario) except Tyrion is better & more cruel in his political games, Dany is, overall, in a weaker situation (a lot of her enemies are inside Meereen, no ships, no allies) and we only got to the beginning of the Battle of Meereen vs. Slavers.

I see no reason to believe TWOW won't feature scores of new characters and more new plots stacked on top of the ones from ADWD.

Where would these new characters come from? We got so many new characters in ADWD mostly because of Meereen & Tyrion's travels through Essos (and some Northern families in more detail), but when we were following people that were in cities/places we had come to know at great detail already, there were not that many new characters or storylines introduced.

Dorne? Characters & storylines we already knew. King's Landing? I don't remember if there was even a single (more or less significant, don't mean "Septa #492394") new character there and storyline continued embarassing Cersei & Tyrells grasping for more power. The Wall? The people of Night's Watch were people we knew already, even if some got a bigger role than they had had previously, and the Wildlings Jon interacted most with were people Jon had come to know in ASOS. Vale? Mostly continuing storylines that begun in ASOS, with that woman who escorts Sansa & Co down being one character that could become a somewhat major side character in due time. Even some new plotlines like White Harbor's revenge plans are something that tie to Winterfell & the North as a whole, so it's not something that necessarily requires shittons of attention in the book to be resolved, instead it kind of runs concurrently (and largely in the background) with the rest of the storylines there.

We know that there should be no more new POV characters (apart from prologues & epilogues), so I'd take that as us knowing most if not even all of the more important characters & even a lot of the more minor players in the story. Even if there are new characters, most will probably be the likes of, say, Greatjon in how we will get to know them, but they'll very much be part of someone else's story, not characters who'd launch tons of new possibilities for the story just by entering the story (i.e. Aegon).

There are a few possibilities of some new sides to the story (Reeds coming into play in the North? Will we get to see Asshai or Valyria at all and if we will, how will they relate to the story? Highgarden?) and Oldtown is still a somewhat unexplored city, even though we did get a glimpse of some of the characters there and the behind the scenes scheming that goes around. On the other hand, Oldtown and all the Maesters have quite clearly been working in the background for a long time, so they've almost 100% surely had some major influence to the story in ways we don't even know yet and will quite likely continue doing so in the future. But yeah, other than those, I'm not sure if there will be that many new sides or additions to the cast of ASOIAF. At least relatively speaking, taking into account that there are already a million characters in it, so adding a few doesn't necessarily have to be game-changing stuff, just more about populating certain places (Winterfell had some new characters after Ramsay & Bolton arrived) & fleshing out the history of certain families/characters.

In short, while I'm sure the book will be great I'm not getting my hopes up for an action packed novel, even though it seems likely. But I thought the same of ADWD (which I really liked btw).

I'm not saying it will be action packed (though, due to the situation of many storylines, I'm pretty sure blood will (continue to) be spilled in TWOW). Just that TWOW will likely begin to have the payback for a lot of the setup that has clearly been going on as well as escalated to a critical point in both AFFC & ADWD, while also still building up to the ultimate finale in A Dream of Spring. I don't really like to make too many assumptions about ASOIAF, but based on what we know, it's not so outrageous to assume things like Aegon teaming up with Martells or Davos finding Rickon relatively quickly and that if these things happen, the story in relation to those might advance at a quick-ish pace. Now, what will happen AFTER Aegon possibly teams up with Dorne or Davos finds Rickon, who knows (long-term predictions never work in the world of ASOIAF ). Just sayin' that we've really been shown how eager people of Dorne are about going to war and Aegon could very well be the catalyst that pushes them to finallly do it after years of Doran Martell planning for it. Whereas ADWD was mostly just introducing the character & and putting him on his way to Westeros, TWOW will likely continue his quest of conquest. Whether it will last long or be shortlived like Renly's fate... we'll have to see about that.

Plus, you know, we have the whole rebellion at the Wall, war REALLY beginning in Meereen, Stannis near Winterfell (something has to happen soon if they are not to freeze to death), the situation in King's Landing (Kevan dead, Cersei & her trial, the rise of the Faith Militant), Arya entering a more advanced stage in her training, the Others with their major attack against the Wildlings still beyond the Wall... and many other possibilities for the story to start advancing a bit faster.

If you compare that premise to how ADWD was... Jon had just become the Lord Commander and the Wildlings had lost, Stannis had completely abandoned trying to do anything at King's Landing for the time being and appeared in the North, Arya was blind, Sansa still pretending to be someone else in the Vale & trapped as Robert's nanny, Bran only recently going past the Wall, Dany deciding to settle down in Meereen for a while etc.. That just doesn't quite scream IMMINENT DEATH AND DESTRUCTION or other things happening readers seem to be wanting to the way Barristan's last chapter does, or the rebellion at the wall (I'm assuming it didn't stop at Jon being stabbed), or Dany confronting the Dothraki.

So, in coclusion, I'd say TWOW has a bit more going on from the get-go than ADWD, which was still mostly about post-ASOS aftermath and build-up.

 

[Chuck Norris]

NO JON FUCKKKK YOUUUU GEORGE RR MARTIN

 

[curiouswitch]

NO JON FUCKKKK YOUUUU GEORGE RR MARTIN

Don't worry... Melisandre the Red priestess will rez him.. you know it's gonna happen.

 

[Chuck Norris]

Don't worry... Melisandre the Red priestess will rez him.. you know it's gonna happen.

I hope so, I hope the stabbings miss vital organs or Wun Wun saves Jon or something... Stop killing the best characters!

Martin tricked me with Tyrion. Hopefully this is another trick

i always took it to mean that the shadow was equivalent to the land of always winter; the shadow belonging the r'hllor and the loaw to the great other

and that dragons and wyrms were beasts of whatever r'hllor really is, and therefore originated in the shadow, while the others and the dead were of the great other and from whatever is up far north

i dunno why it just made sense to me it could be totally wrong

I always thought the shadow was a giant mountain, sunrise referring to a volcano perhaps. Which would make sense for it to be the home of dragons and the home of r'hllor.

I always considered Asshai to be the "fire" while beyond the Wall is the "ice" in a Song of Ice and Fire

 

[AngryMoth]

Half way through ASOS. I'm a few chapters past the part where Robb and Catelyn are killed and just...what the fuck? WHAT THE FUCK? I mean it was heavily foreshadowed that Frey was gonna skrew them over but it was still shocking. And Catelyn gets killed as well? Wow, this is more depressing than when Ned was executed. Just when I was starting to really root for Robb as well. And then the next chapter ends with the hound swinging an axe at Arya I am even more in shock, but then I see she has more chapters so I'm guessing he hit her with the flat side to knock her out. I'm too scared to read any of this thread for future spoilers but just had to vent about this. I feel sick

 

[RyanDG]

Don't worry... Melisandre the Red priestess will rez him.. you know it's gonna happen.

I hope not. I've said it before in this thread and I'll say it again... If Jon is going to live, I would much rather the attack be stopped by the Wildlings and Jon has to survive nursing and dealing with his injuries rather than instant red god rez awesomeness happening. Having his character crippled by the attack but alive (and having to work to get back to where he was) would be a lot more interesting...

 

[elrechazado]

Half way through ASOS. I'm a few chapters past the part where Robb and Catelyn are killed and just...what the fuck? WHAT THE FUCK? I mean it was heavily foreshadowed that Frey was gonna skrew them over but it was still shocking. And Catelyn gets killed as well? Wow, this is more depressing than when Ned was executed. Just when I was starting to really root for Robb as well. And then the next chapter ends with the hound swinging an axe at Arya I am even more in shock, but then I see she has more chapters so I'm guessing he hit her with the flat side to knock her out. I'm too scared to read any of this thread for future spoilers but just had to vent about this. I feel sick

Flee this thread friend. You don't want to get spoiled further. It is known.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Half way through ASOS. I'm a few chapters past the part where Robb and Catelyn are killed and just...what the fuck? WHAT THE FUCK? I mean it was heavily foreshadowed that Frey was gonna skrew them over but it was still shocking. And Catelyn gets killed as well? Wow, this is more depressing than when Ned was executed. Just when I was starting to really root for Robb as well. And then the next chapter ends with the hound swinging an axe at Arya I am even more in shock, but then I see she has more chapters so I'm guessing he hit her with the flat side to knock her out. I'm too scared to read any of this thread for future spoilers but just had to vent about this. I feel sick

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

Half way through ASOS. I'm a few chapters past the part where Robb and Catelyn are killed and just...what the fuck? WHAT THE FUCK? I mean it was heavily foreshadowed that Frey was gonna skrew them over but it was still shocking. And Catelyn gets killed as well? Wow, this is more depressing than when Ned was executed. Just when I was starting to really root for Robb as well. And then the next chapter ends with the hound swinging an axe at Arya I am even more in shock, but then I see she has more chapters so I'm guessing he hit her with the flat side to knock her out. I'm too scared to read any of this thread for future spoilers but just had to vent about this. I feel sick

Bwahahahahaha.

 

[elrechazado]

rereading the series again lately, and it's driving me crazy how nobody in asofai seems to be able to drink or even eat without slopping it down their chins.

Seriously, wtf. "he had a glass of wine, and it dribbled down his chin". "she enjoyed the wine and boar and it ran down her chin and neck". Who eats like this? I have to assume it's caused by the long winter....

 

[Fjordson]

I hope not. I've said it before in this thread and I'll say it again... If Jon is going to live, I would much rather the attack be stopped by the Wildlings and Jon has to survive nursing and dealing with his injuries rather than instant red god rez awesomeness happening. Having his character crippled by the attack but alive (and having to work to get back to where he was) would be a lot more interesting...

Agreed. Hopefully Melisandre isn't used as a crutch to keep Jon around in this case.

 

[platypotamus]

Seriously, wtf. "he had a glass of wine, and it dribbled down his chin". "she enjoyed the wine and boar and it ran down her chin and neck". Who eats like this? I have to assume it's caused by the long winter....

Well, with food, they're mostly (entirely?) utensil free, so yeah it's pretty messy.

With drink, just assume they're super drunk.

 

[siddx]

I hope not. I've said it before in this thread and I'll say it again... If Jon is going to live, I would much rather the attack be stopped by the Wildlings and Jon has to survive nursing and dealing with his injuries rather than instant red god rez awesomeness happening. Having his character crippled by the attack but alive (and having to work to get back to where he was) would be a lot more interesting...

I hoped the same thing, but it's far more likely that either he gets resurrected by her, or that he turns into that undead but conscious thing like the fellow who helped Bran.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Just passed the Red Wedding chapter during my reread. The buildup to those chapters, all the subtle hints (Frey exclaiming "the red will flow!", stuff like that), it's masterfully written.

Nevertheless, that doesn't make it any less terrible. George R. R. Martin truly is a sick mind. :lol

 

[Puddles]

My mom just picked up A Storm of Swords. It won't be long now. She has no idea how hard she's about to get GRRM'd.

Robb and Catelyn are two of her favorite characters too.

 

[Ninja Beagle]

My mom just picked up A Storm of Swords. It won't be long now. She has no idea how hard she's about to get GRRM'd.

Robb and Catelyn are two of her favorite characters too.

ahaha This! My one friend was nearing the Red Wedding and I couldn't wait for his response. I woke one day to a text from him that simply say "WHAT THE FUCK!"

Beautiful.

 

[Apath]

Half way through ASOS. I'm a few chapters past the part where Robb and Catelyn are killed and just...what the fuck? WHAT THE FUCK? I mean it was heavily foreshadowed that Frey was gonna skrew them over but it was still shocking. And Catelyn gets killed as well? Wow, this is more depressing than when Ned was executed. Just when I was starting to really root for Robb as well. And then the next chapter ends with the hound swinging an axe at Arya I am even more in shock, but then I see she has more chapters so I'm guessing he hit her with the flat side to knock her out. I'm too scared to read any of this thread for future spoilers but just had to vent about this. I feel sick

I feel like I'm the only person who knew what was up when I read the end of Arya's post-Red Wedding chapter. She was running towards her doom, so I thought it was obvious the Hound was just stopping her.

And overall I really enjoyed A Dance With Dragons. I disagree with it being like Feast, as it covers basically all of the plot lines that I can think of. It has set the same tone I felt in the first three books, so here's to hoping we get DWT=GOT, WOW=COK, and DOS = SOS. If we somehow get another Storm of Swords quality book.. I'm not sure what I'll do with myself.

 

[Emerson]

I feel like I'm the only person who knew what was up when I read the end of Arya's post-Red Wedding chapter. She was running towards her doom, so I thought it was obvious the Hound was just stopping her.

I agree, you're the first person I've ever heard say this besides myself. I never thought he killed her for a second, didn't even cross my mind.

 

[elrechazado]

I feel like I'm the only person who knew what was up when I read the end of Arya's post-Red Wedding chapter. She was running towards her doom, so I thought it was obvious the Hound was just stopping her.

And overall I really enjoyed A Dance With Dragons. I disagree with it being like Feast, as it covers basically all of the plot lines that I can think of. It has set the same tone I felt in the first three books, so here's to hoping we get DWT=GOT, WOW=COK, and DOS = SOS. If we somehow get another Storm of Swords quality book.. I'm not sure what I'll do with myself.

I'm shocked anyone thought arya would die. Hound was obviously saving her.

 

[Gilby]

I feel like I'm the only person who knew what was up when I read the end of Arya's post-Red Wedding chapter. She was running towards her doom, so I thought it was obvious the Hound was just stopping her.

And overall I really enjoyed A Dance With Dragons. I disagree with it being like Feast, as it covers basically all of the plot lines that I can think of. It has set the same tone I felt in the first three books, so here's to hoping we get DWT=GOT, WOW=COK, and DOS = SOS. If we somehow get another Storm of Swords quality book.. I'm not sure what I'll do with myself.

My biggest gripe with ADwD is that the Bran storyline ends halfway through! I kept thinking "I'll just push through these Tyrion chapters, another Bran chapter is probably coming up soon..", but alas . I mean, we get a hint of him from the raven later but that's it. I wanted more magical wi-fi!

 

[Puddles]

Storm of Swords really is one of the best books ever. So many amazing scenes.

- Joffrey's death
- The Red Wedding
- Drogon wasting the slave traders and all the slaves calling Dany "mother"
- "You raped her. You murdered her. You killed her children."
- Arya killing The Tickler
- Lysa revealing that she kicked off this whole affair by poisoning Jon Arryn and then getting pushed out the moon door
- Barristan Selmy reveal and the capture of Yunkai and Mereen
- Jorah Mormont being banished
- Jaime revealing that Tyrion's first wife wasn't actually a whore
- Tyrion killing Tywin
- '"You know nothing, Jon Snow," she sighed, dying.'
- Battle at The Wall
- Jon becomes Lord Commander
- Lady Stoneheart reveal

So good.

 

[ahoyhoy]

Oh god, the duel between Ser Gregor and the Red Viper had me on pins and needles.

"I killed her kid, then I raped her! And then I punched her fucking face in, like this!"

I felt like vomiting at the same time Tyrion was.

 

[Apath]

Storm of Swords really is one of the best books ever. So many amazing scenes.

- Joffrey's death
- The Red Wedding
- Drogon wasting the slave traders and all the slaves calling Dany "mother"
- "You raped her. You murdered her. You killed her children."
- Arya killing The Tickler
- Lysa revealing that she kicked off this whole affair by poisoning Jon Arryn and then getting pushed out the moon door
- Barristan Selmy reveal and the capture of Yunkai and Mereen
- Jorah Mormont being banished
- Jaime revealing that Tyrion's first wife wasn't actually a whore
- Tyrion killing Tywin
- '"You know nothing, Jon Snow," she sighed, dying.'
- Battle at The Wall
- Jon becomes Lord Commander
- Lady Stoneheart reveal

So good.

Don't forget the battle at the Fist of the First Men and Jaime's humanization.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I feel like I'm the only person who knew what was up when I read the end of Arya's post-Red Wedding chapter. She was running towards her doom, so I thought it was obvious the Hound was just stopping her.

I felt the same. I thought it was obvious when I first read it that he was knocking her out to keep her from throwing her life away. I'm shocked that anyone really thought she was dead.

 

[krameriffic]

So I just finished ADWD and... ehhh....

Does it really irritate anyone else when he spends like 5 chapters hyping up a battle (in this case Stannis' battle for Winterfell) and then he doesn't actually write the battle from anybody's perspective? He just has a letter show up afterwards declaring its outcome? What kind of bullshit is that?

First of all, whenever things aren't first hand in his books, especially given his penchant for reviving characters previously thought to be dead like Catelyn, Davos, Brienne and possibly Gregor, it just leaves me thinking that he's bold-facedly lying to us. A two paragraph note from that douchebag Ramsay is NOT how you fucking conclude Stannis' epic journey through the course of the last few books. He spends hundreds of pages hyping him up, talking about the siege at Storm's End and the Battle of the Blackwater and how he smashed the Wildlings north of the Wall, and he fucking dies off screen for us to learn about it from a FUCKING LETTER FROM RAMSAY BOLTON?

And how does he follow it up? With the egregiously stupid and utterly unbelievable murder of Jon Snow at the Wall. I get that they were setting up a growing discomfort of the Night's Watch with his decisions as Lord Commander, but Bowen Marsh stabbing him to death just does not jive. Getting killed by the Queen's men, maybe, but I don't see that happening with the friendship he has kindled with all the Wildlings he has there. It's just such a pathetically unfitting conclusion to his story with no merit whatsoever. If his questionable decisions were his downfall, he should have died on his ranging to Hardholme, alone and freezing north of the Wall, not betrayed by his sworn brothers. Robb's death at the Red Wedding was shocking, but not completely unpredictable. Knowing the Frey's, it seemed a fitting response to his slight, a thematic lesson in the frivolities of youth and the downfalls they can bring upon a person.

Also speaking of the north, why did he bother to set up Davos' journey to find Bran, something that seemed likely to fit in with Stannis and Jon's plans for the north, but then just forget about it? What is the point of Davos doing anything now that Stannis and Jon are dead? What, was he smoking crack up his ass? And why do we spend so little time with Bran, a character of clearly great importance to the plot, and he gets like 2 chapters in the whole book. Wouldn't want to have too much intrigue in your book, Martin, or people might compare it to the masterpiece that was A Storm of Swords.

The book started off on a very high note and I had high hopes for where he was going with Tyrion and Jon and Bran and Daenerys, but they all went nowhere fast. His rationale for Daenerys twiddling her thumbs in Merreen for the entire course of the book was so flimsy it was painful, like a man with no bones in his arms trying to serve you coffee. Did she get hit in the head with a very large rock at some point without us knowing about it and simply forget that her goal was taking back THE SEVEN KINGDOMS OF WESTEROS and not trying to civilize a bunch of retard slavers on the other side of the planet who are of utterly no consequence whatsoever to the overarching plot of the book?

Barristan should have slapped that bitch silly and reminded her what she was in this gig for: the Iron Throne, not Slaver's Bay. We only had precious few moments spent in King's Landing and the Riverlands, but I still don't understand what the point is of Brienne (why is she still alive again? nevermind) and Jaime and Catelyn's little outlaw cakewalk. Instead of dedicating a few choice chapters to Littlefinger and Sansa, two characters in a very intriguing position at the end of AFFC (and fuck knows they were the only ones who did anything in that book) Martin just forgets about them ENTIRELY. Instead, he sends Jaime and Brienne out on a wild goose chase of extremely questionable pertinence to the plot of the story. How are the outlaws in the Riverlands ever going to matter? Why did he bring Catelyn back from the dead? She has appeared in all of two chapters since then and done NOTHING whatsoever.

More than anything, the book suffers from being unfocused and having a plot that meanders around for a thousand pages (just like AFFC). The only things that actually happen don't feel like they matter for one of two reasons. First, nothing that happens in Slaver's Bay COULD EVER matter short of Daenerys and the dragons dying or packing their bags and heading to Westeros with nary a backward glance (neither of which actually happens). Second, so much of it feels like Martin is hedging. Some aspect of Jon (maybe all of him) will live on through Ghost or some other hullabaloo involving his Warg abilities. I still don't buy that Stannis is out of the game just because of how pathetic the letter was as a storytelling mechanism (just like I didn't buy that Davos was dead in the last book from his head hanging on Manderly's gate). He's gonna find some way to have Connington and Aegon fart around in the south for half of the next book before actually doing anything. Gotta wait for Daenerys to get back on her meds and remember that she has dragons and a kingdom to take!

If instead of being told from 20 different viewpoints, it had focused on the ones that matter and stopped dicking around with shit nobody cares about, the book could have been excellent. He's got so many plotlines going on that it just feels like he doesn't know what to do with them all. I'm struggling even to recall them all and I just read the book over the last week. Quentyn Martell could have been cut entirely out of the book and it would have made no difference whatsoever (just say the dragons escaped). Give us some goddamn closure on what happened with Stannis, with Jon, with Daenerys, with Victarion and the Iron Fleet, and give us some clue as to why Arya and Bran's stories matter to the overarching plot. None of these things felt like they concluded a self-contained story arc within the book except maybe Stannis (and I still don't buy that he's dead).

As I sit here and think about it all, I find myself thinking more and more "man, I don't even care what happens in the end." Every character in the world is either incredibly stupid, lazy, corrupt, pathetic, weak or pious and almost none of them are likable anymore. It's supposed to be a dark fantasy, but when you paint everything as utterly bleak and stupid it's just as bad (if not worse) than painting everything as happy. Daenerys was supposed to be the saving grace. That's what they were building her up as, but then Martin downed a few more stupid pills and decided to write her as stupidly as he did many other characters.

Rant over.

 

[Freshmaker]

So I just finished ADWD and... ehhh....

Does it really irritate anyone else when he spends like 5 chapters hyping up a battle (in this case Stannis' battle for Winterfell) and then he doesn't actually write the battle from anybody's perspective? He just has a letter show up afterwards declaring its outcome? What kind of bullshit is that?

The letter's likely a lie.

 

[Dresden]

Why would you believe Roose Bolton? Lol.

 

[jon bones]

well this is awkward

 

[ultron87]

The letter's likely a lie.

Well he isn't wrong that we really should've gotten some conclusion there.

 

[AngmarsKing701]

So I just finished ADWD and... ehhh....

Does it really irritate anyone else when he spends like 5 chapters hyping up a battle (in this case Stannis' battle for Winterfell) and then he doesn't actually write the battle from anybody's perspective? He just has a letter show up afterwards declaring its outcome? What kind of bullshit is that?

First of all, whenever things aren't first hand in his books, especially given his penchant for reviving characters previously thought to be dead like Catelyn, Davos, Brienne and possibly Gregor, it just leaves me thinking that he's bold-facedly lying to us. A two paragraph note from that douchebag Ramsay is NOT how you fucking conclude Stannis' epic journey through the course of the last few books. He spends hundreds of pages hyping him up, talking about the siege at Storm's End and the Battle of the Blackwater and how he smashed the Wildlings north of the Wall, and he fucking dies off screen for us to learn about it from a FUCKING LETTER FROM RAMSAY BOLTON?

And how does he follow it up? With the egregiously stupid and utterly unbelievable murder of Jon Snow at the Wall. I get that they were setting up a growing discomfort of the Night's Watch with his decisions as Lord Commander, but Bowen Marsh stabbing him to death just does not jive. Getting killed by the Queen's men, maybe, but I don't see that happening with the friendship he has kindled with all the Wildlings he has there. It's just such a pathetically unfitting conclusion to his story with no merit whatsoever. If his questionable decisions were his downfall, he should have died on his ranging to Hardholme, alone and freezing north of the Wall, not betrayed by his sworn brothers. Robb's death at the Red Wedding was shocking, but not completely unpredictable. Knowing the Frey's, it seemed a fitting response to his slight, a thematic lesson in the frivolities of youth and the downfalls they can bring upon a person.

Also speaking of the north, why did he bother to set up Davos' journey to find Bran, something that seemed likely to fit in with Stannis and Jon's plans for the north, but then just forget about it? What is the point of Davos doing anything now that Stannis and Jon are dead? What, was he smoking crack up his ass? And why do we spend so little time with Bran, a character of clearly great importance to the plot, and he gets like 2 chapters in the whole book. Wouldn't want to have too much intrigue in your book, Martin, or people might compare it to the masterpiece that was A Storm of Swords.

The book started off on a very high note and I had high hopes for where he was going with Tyrion and Jon and Bran and Daenerys, but they all went nowhere fast. His rationale for Daenerys twiddling her thumbs in Merreen for the entire course of the book was so flimsy it was painful, like a man with no bones in his arms trying to serve you coffee. Did she get hit in the head with a very large rock at some point without us knowing about it and simply forget that her goal was taking back THE SEVEN KINGDOMS OF WESTEROS and not trying to civilize a bunch of retard slavers on the other side of the planet who are of utterly no consequence whatsoever to the overarching plot of the book?

Barristan should have slapped that bitch silly and reminded her what she was in this gig for: the Iron Throne, not Slaver's Bay. We only had precious few moments spent in King's Landing and the Riverlands, but I still don't understand what the point is of Brienne (why is she still alive again? nevermind) and Jaime and Catelyn's little outlaw cakewalk. Instead of dedicating a few choice chapters to Littlefinger and Sansa, two characters in a very intriguing position at the end of AFFC (and fuck knows they were the only ones who did anything in that book) Martin just forgets about them ENTIRELY. Instead, he sends Jaime and Brienne out on a wild goose chase of extremely questionable pertinence to the plot of the story. How are the outlaws in the Riverlands ever going to matter? Why did he bring Catelyn back from the dead? She has appeared in all of two chapters since then and done NOTHING whatsoever.

More than anything, the book suffers from being unfocused and having a plot that meanders around for a thousand pages (just like AFFC). The only things that actually happen don't feel like they matter for one of two reasons. First, nothing that happens in Slaver's Bay COULD EVER matter short of Daenerys and the dragons dying or packing their bags and heading to Westeros with nary a backward glance (neither of which actually happens). Second, so much of it feels like Martin is hedging. Some aspect of Jon (maybe all of him) will live on through Ghost or some other hullabaloo involving his Warg abilities. I still don't buy that Stannis is out of the game just because of how pathetic the letter was as a storytelling mechanism (just like I didn't buy that Davos was dead in the last book from his head hanging on Manderly's gate). He's gonna find some way to have Connington and Aegon fart around in the south for half of the next book before actually doing anything. Gotta wait for Daenerys to get back on her meds and remember that she has dragons and a kingdom to take!

If instead of being told from 20 different viewpoints, it had focused on the ones that matter and stopped dicking around with shit nobody cares about, the book could have been excellent. He's got so many plotlines going on that it just feels like he doesn't know what to do with them all. I'm struggling even to recall them all and I just read the book over the last week. Quentyn Martell could have been cut entirely out of the book and it would have made no difference whatsoever (just say the dragons escaped). Give us some goddamn closure on what happened with Stannis, with Jon, with Daenerys, with Victarion and the Iron Fleet, and give us some clue as to why Arya and Bran's stories matter to the overarching plot. None of these things felt like they concluded a self-contained story arc within the book except maybe Stannis (and I still don't buy that he's dead).

As I sit here and think about it all, I find myself thinking more and more "man, I don't even care what happens in the end." Every character in the world is either incredibly stupid, lazy, corrupt, pathetic, weak or pious and almost none of them are likable anymore. It's supposed to be a dark fantasy, but when you paint everything as utterly bleak and stupid it's just as bad (if not worse) than painting everything as happy. Daenerys was supposed to be the saving grace. That's what they were building her up as, but then Martin downed a few more stupid pills and decided to write her as stupidly as he did many other characters.

Rant over.

Gotta admit, solid rant.

I think the Stannis news is bullshit. I think Snow is only, to turn a Princess Bride phrase on you, "mostly dead... and mostly dead is partly alive." We just need someone to wizard him back *cough* Melisandre *cough*

After all, if Jon really is this Azhai reborn, then doesn't he have to die and BE REBORN to fulfill the prophecy? And if he's reborn in fire, then doesn't that fit with the dragons somehow?

Anyway, I'm totally with you on Dany. She turned from bold world conqueror into coquettish little teenie bopper. If I wanted Twilight bullshit story-lines, I'd ... Well, let's not go there. I want Dany to scour the earth with her dragons while marching on Westeros. What GRRM gave us was horrid. And for a book titled A Dance With Dragons, it was very frustrating to have the damn dragons locked up for most of the book.