hydrophilic attack
Member
So if a woman president would be new, and Hillary is not, are they saying Hillary is not a woman?
Mecha-Hillary?
Mecha-Hillary?
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A woman president would be new, Hillary Clinton is not.
- Thread starter Tak3n
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I'm a 35 year old woman and I am excited for Hillary because I've seen her career over so many years. I've always had a soft spot for her, for pissing off the conservative media as First Lady and onwards. I still haven't forgiven Bill.
Obama won me away from her in 2008. I started out liking Bernie's message, but he definitively lost me when he attacked Planned Parenthood and it felt good to throw my whole support behind her then.
Obama won me away from her in 2008. I started out liking Bernie's message, but he definitively lost me when he attacked Planned Parenthood and it felt good to throw my whole support behind her then.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Its called Chelsea Clinton.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
He hasn't won. You mean, 'would have been'
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Kasich's ideology is not radical relative to the rest of his party. I don't see how scrutiny really would have ruined his general election prospects.
Even the "Kasich is not a moderate" conversation mostly revolved around his stance on abortion, which is not a killer in the general.
benjipwns
Banned
Vince Foster's daughter Chelsea Clinton existing means no other Presidents have slept together? That's some far out conspiracy nonsense there.
depths20XX
Member
So you went Hillary because of a misunderstood quote from Bernie? Good to know that's all it takes.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Is that why he doubled down on it?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/...-part-of-the-establishment-out-to-beat-Bernie
depths20XX
Member
Oh no...he thinks they're part of the establishment. What a terrible guy.
Beerman462
Member
excelsiorlef
Member
Sanders attack on PP was not a misunderstood quote lol.
He doubled down on it, had Weaver triple down on it and then pretended to walk it back while actually quadrupling down it by claiming he just meant that everyone that runs the organization is part of the "Establishment" that he's fighting against.
Sanders acted like an entitled child whenever someone chose to endorse Clinton
Ploid 3.0
Member
Her slogan should be, "You could pick me, but your other option is Trump..."
Then just coast, don't even have to travel, just put ads up.
QuantumZebra
Member
Me reading the article:
I can't fathom how the fuck people are trying to find reasons to dislike Hillary when our other option is ideologically fucking Hitler.
Just facepalms for days over here...
amen
I can't fathom how the fuck people are trying to find reasons to dislike Hillary when our other option is ideologically fucking Hitler.
Just facepalms for days over here...
amen
It's a good organization, labeling it as "establishment" and attacking it based on the label is some McCarthy shit
Paul Ryan, maybe. John Kasich could have challenged her easily. Hell if Mitt would have run now rather than 2012 I think that he could beat her.
benjipwns
Banned
That's no way to talk about Dr. Jill Stein.
EatinOlives
Member
But if she were "new" people would be saying that she's inexperienced, not ready, in over her head, etc etc.
GameAddict411
Member
We saw a lot of republican candidates run this GOP election year, but non of them won anything. It comes down to the fact America is getting more liberal each passing year/decade. The conservative population in the United States is shrinking, and the GOP keeps on fucking up with spreading hate, injustice, and above all ignorance throughout this country.
Anyone who has a sound logic will see this and avoid them like the plague. in 2020, I don't see any other viable candidate from the GOP side, and they will most likely lose in the mid cycle elections as well. The GOP is slowly disintegrating and hopefully they will be gone or become irrelevant in a decade or two.
Basically, the only fear that's real now is the fear that democratic voter turnout is going to be abysmal because Hillary is seen as such a sure thing.
I mean, nearly everyone that's sane expects her to win. People might not feel their votes matter and stay home.
Hillary isn't really the ideal candidate to rally up a movement to come out and vote en masse. It's usually the young newcomers with radical new ideas that manage to inspire the masses to go out and vote.
I mean, nearly everyone that's sane expects her to win. People might not feel their votes matter and stay home.
Hillary isn't really the ideal candidate to rally up a movement to come out and vote en masse. It's usually the young newcomers with radical new ideas that manage to inspire the masses to go out and vote.
The Artisan
Member
i wish oprah would run for president
Then everyone would really get free things.
depths20XX
Member
OK that I can agree with. It was a stupid thing for him to go in on.
Anyone with sound logic will avoid them like the plague? There's 45% of this country who will vote Rubunlican until they die. All it will take is a more sane stance on immigration and less religious tones (so, old Republicans) and they will be right there. Maybe not 2020 in full strength but the idea that they're going to collapse and liberals will win every election going forward is silly.
Mitt Romney lost to Obama by only 4 points. There's no reason to think that if they get their shit together and try again in 2020 they can't beat Hillary after three Democratic terms.
It isn't like Hillary didn't make similar blunders. When Chelsea and her went after Bernie's health care plan by implying that people were going to lose their coverage that was a really bad look for her.
Or when Hillary tried to explain her Wall Street donors as "because 9/11".
Yes, that does make him a terrible guy.
You're clearly illustrating that the "Political Revolution" isn't about issues (women's health and right to choose) but rather a sexist/racist reactionary movement against our first female nominee and her minority supporters. Bernie whipped up his own little Tea Party on the left.
Chewy Chipmunk
Banned
I legit thought this was calling her not a woman and I laughed.
But it's true. She really isn't going to be a breath of fresh air, that's for sure.
But it's true. She really isn't going to be a breath of fresh air, that's for sure.
Oh boy. You're saying the entire Bernie movement is racist/sexist?
I'm not saying that every member of it is, but enough that I'm comfortable applying that label yes. In the same way that I think the Tea Party was a racist reactionary movement against our first black President.
This will be Bernie's legacy.
SwiftDeath
Member
Clinton does very much scream establishment and old guard in how she acts and portrays herself.
That's not necessarily the worst thing to me but it's certainly not exciting.
Obama wasn't just exciting because of his race but because he actually made people believe he would change things regardless of whether or not he actually succeeded in doing so.
But this is the real world and the job of president is far too important to let it go to someone like Trump (personal opinion) so I will vote for Hilary in the general.
It's weird, I voted Bernie in the primary but even though he's a lot more interesting policy wise than clinton to me, the last couple of months have not shown him in a particularly good light. I also always kind of worried about what he would actually accomplish as he would have to compromise on everything at least a bit to get anything passed and he never seemed all that interested in compromising.
That's not necessarily the worst thing to me but it's certainly not exciting.
Obama wasn't just exciting because of his race but because he actually made people believe he would change things regardless of whether or not he actually succeeded in doing so.
But this is the real world and the job of president is far too important to let it go to someone like Trump (personal opinion) so I will vote for Hilary in the general.
It's weird, I voted Bernie in the primary but even though he's a lot more interesting policy wise than clinton to me, the last couple of months have not shown him in a particularly good light. I also always kind of worried about what he would actually accomplish as he would have to compromise on everything at least a bit to get anything passed and he never seemed all that interested in compromising.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
So then it's not a misunderstood quote as you first said?
I gotta admit that Hillary being a woman seems to be barely a topic of conversation in this election. It's all about crazy republican candidates, Bernie against everyone, anarchy versus establishment, Clinton reign once again. etc. People are forgetting everything that Hillary actually had to do to end up in a position like this, and how amazing it actually is to finally break down the female barrier in the presidency
No it means that Hillary has been running for President since the 90s. It would be like if the first black pres had been like... Jesse Jackson or something instead of Obama who came basically from nowhere.
That's "not inspirational enough" for a bunch of guys, of course they don't want to really talk about it.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Hm, I would phrase it a little differently. Clinton is too much establishment in a time where most people resent the establishment.
I mean, the reason why Sanders was such a suprise success is because he united the anti-establishment crowd behind him. While Sanders is moderately left, this crowd is neither left nor right, it has parts of boths sides.
Going by Clintons statements her presidency would get us pretty much another 4 years of pretty much the same as the last 8 years, which were really, really bad when we trust the right wing media, but were actually pretty good when we look at the facts.
Clinton will continue progression, slow progression - baby steps, but still progression.
Sanders promises rapid progression, which is obviously more popoular with many people.
I have huge problems with both candidates.
The biggest problem the US faces is the huge influence money has on politics.
The reason why its so hard to get things done like universal healthcare, free education, green energy and tackling income inequality, is because politicians are influenced not by voters but by people and corporations with a lot of money.
Almost all of americas problems can be traced back to this.
My problem with Clinton is that she doesn't want to change that system, she is part of it, she just wants to make it a bit more bearable for the average citizen.
Its like your sitting in a boat and the boat has a hole and water is coming in.
Clinton wants to keep scooping water out of the boat, Sanders wants to fix the hole.
Sanders wants to fight that system, he is fighting a good fight, but his ideas aren't very well thought out. I would support Sanders out of principle because he wants to do the right thing, but I am fairly certain that if Sanders would win now, things would get worse and in 4 years people would vote the old system back in and it would be stronger than ever before.
But I also think that Sanders can be beginning of social democratic movement in the US, the political idea that has been very successful in northern europe for decades.
Its a working system that demonstrably leads to a better society, but for it to succeed you need political debate within the framework of social democratic ideas.
When Sanders says we need free education he is met by people who say we can't afford that. Be he should be met by people who say "Lets do it, but lets do it differently than you say because your way of doing it isn't very good."
So I'm banking on 8 years of Clinton and during these years a social democratic movement will form that'll be able to bring the sucessful northern european ideas to the US in a well thought out way.
At the end of the day I couldn't care less how boring, how more of the same Clinton will be, how pro establishment she is, Trump is the alternative - end of debate.
But I'm not voting anyway since I'm not american, I'm german, in Germany we have Angela Merkel, first female chancellor, who is doing a pretty good job, and by pretty good I mean that I have a lot of problems with her, but I couldn't imagine anyone doing a better job. She sucks, but she is also amazing.
I mean, the reason why Sanders was such a suprise success is because he united the anti-establishment crowd behind him. While Sanders is moderately left, this crowd is neither left nor right, it has parts of boths sides.
Going by Clintons statements her presidency would get us pretty much another 4 years of pretty much the same as the last 8 years, which were really, really bad when we trust the right wing media, but were actually pretty good when we look at the facts.
Clinton will continue progression, slow progression - baby steps, but still progression.
Sanders promises rapid progression, which is obviously more popoular with many people.
I have huge problems with both candidates.
The biggest problem the US faces is the huge influence money has on politics.
The reason why its so hard to get things done like universal healthcare, free education, green energy and tackling income inequality, is because politicians are influenced not by voters but by people and corporations with a lot of money.
Almost all of americas problems can be traced back to this.
My problem with Clinton is that she doesn't want to change that system, she is part of it, she just wants to make it a bit more bearable for the average citizen.
Its like your sitting in a boat and the boat has a hole and water is coming in.
Clinton wants to keep scooping water out of the boat, Sanders wants to fix the hole.
Sanders wants to fight that system, he is fighting a good fight, but his ideas aren't very well thought out. I would support Sanders out of principle because he wants to do the right thing, but I am fairly certain that if Sanders would win now, things would get worse and in 4 years people would vote the old system back in and it would be stronger than ever before.
But I also think that Sanders can be beginning of social democratic movement in the US, the political idea that has been very successful in northern europe for decades.
Its a working system that demonstrably leads to a better society, but for it to succeed you need political debate within the framework of social democratic ideas.
When Sanders says we need free education he is met by people who say we can't afford that. Be he should be met by people who say "Lets do it, but lets do it differently than you say because your way of doing it isn't very good."
So I'm banking on 8 years of Clinton and during these years a social democratic movement will form that'll be able to bring the sucessful northern european ideas to the US in a well thought out way.
At the end of the day I couldn't care less how boring, how more of the same Clinton will be, how pro establishment she is, Trump is the alternative - end of debate.
But I'm not voting anyway since I'm not american, I'm german, in Germany we have Angela Merkel, first female chancellor, who is doing a pretty good job, and by pretty good I mean that I have a lot of problems with her, but I couldn't imagine anyone doing a better job. She sucks, but she is also amazing.
I think it's good that we are starting to see other people that can fill the role and not just the opportunity going to the mold of a white male (I'm a crusty white dude). Hillary has never been charismatic to me but I think she has some good experience of her own and of course the connections and knowledge that Bill brings.
Spiral Insanity
Banned
So Hillary has some good experience, but mostly it's the connections and knowledge of Bill Clinton? Damn.
Beer Monkey
Member
No, the biggest reason it is so hard to get things done is that young "progressives" don't vote in the fucking midterms.
He said and of course as in also, And Bill does,have a lot of experience being president.... lol and lots of connections.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
That still wouldn't change much when its legal for rich individuals and corporations to bribe politicians.
Just_myles
Member
Ridiculous. She clearly has the experience to do the job. I am not sure what OP piece is trying to say.
DrROBschiz
Member
Naw public involvement can make for huge changes at the local level
Fill Scalia's spot. 5-4 Court.
Replace RBG with a liberal judge. Maintain 5-4. Refresh the liberal majority.
Replace Breye with a liberal judge. Maintain 5-4. Refresh the liberal majority.
Bonus could be replace Kennedy, 6-3 SCOTUS. OMG OMG.
Repeal Citizens United
Protect the Voting Rights Act
Fair Districting
Revisit Corporate Personhood.
This is what's on the table today. Why the fuck would any self proclaimed progressive not vote for Clinton. Just insane.
Failure to win the court is a straight 6-3 conservative court within the next 8years taking a blow torch to the progress made in your country over the past decade and shutting the door on an entire generation or two.
Replace RBG with a liberal judge. Maintain 5-4. Refresh the liberal majority.
Replace Breye with a liberal judge. Maintain 5-4. Refresh the liberal majority.
Bonus could be replace Kennedy, 6-3 SCOTUS. OMG OMG.
Repeal Citizens United
Protect the Voting Rights Act
Fair Districting
Revisit Corporate Personhood.
This is what's on the table today. Why the fuck would any self proclaimed progressive not vote for Clinton. Just insane.
Failure to win the court is a straight 6-3 conservative court within the next 8years taking a blow torch to the progress made in your country over the past decade and shutting the door on an entire generation or two.
I didn't say mostly it's in addition to her own which adds to her qualifications. How would you not count that as part of her experience though, obviously through the years his connections/experience became her connections/experiences etc, also include her time working with the Obama administration. Or should all of that be dismissed because they were men?
Kennedy turns 80 next month.
This could end-up being a very rare opportunity. A 5-4 liberal young/liberal court is great, but a 6-3 young/liberal court is the stuff of dreams. Whole swaths of the GOP's agenda would suddenly be up against a hostile judiciary.. and the judiciary pretty much gets the final word on everything.
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