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[JABEE]

He hasn't won. You mean, 'would have been'

I am referring to winning one state.

 

[PastorOfMuppets]

All I gotta say is white people, we've tolerated your shit for long enough. If you guys vote in Trump because of some weird rationale about Clinton, the minorities are gonna get together and pull all the ethnic food restaurants out of your cities. No more Vietnamese, Indian, Middle Eastern - we even gonna take Italian food away from y'all mayo eating motherfuckers.

 

[scoobidoo112]

All I gotta say is white people, we've tolerated your shit for long enough. If you guys vote in Trump because of some weird rationale about Clinton, the minorities are gonna get together and pull all the ethnic food restaurants out of your cities. No more Vietnamese, Indian, Middle Eastern - we even gonna take Italian food away from y'all mayo eating motherfuckers.

'Democracy'

 

[Switch Back 9]

All I gotta say is white people, we've tolerated your shit for long enough. If you guys vote in Trump because of some weird rationale about Clinton, the minorities are gonna get together and pull all the ethnic food restaurants out of your cities. No more Vietnamese, Indian, Middle Eastern - we even gonna take Italian food away from y'all mayo eating motherfuckers.

Okay pal. Good luck convincing them they're in the same range of minorities as black and asian people.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

'Democracy'

'Sense of Humor'

 

[benjipwns]

All I gotta say is white people, we've tolerated your shit for long enough. If you guys vote in Trump because of some weird rationale about Clinton, the minorities are gonna get together and pull all the ethnic food restaurants out of your cities. No more Vietnamese, Indian, Middle Eastern - we even gonna take Italian food away from y'all mayo eating motherfuckers.

Well, okay, but only if you take the Irish too!

 

[kavanf1]

i wish oprah would run for president

Don't talk crazy!

 

[Switch Back 9]

Well, okay, but only if you take the Irish too!

Known worldwide for their top-tier cuisine.

 

[avaya]

Kennedy turns 80 next month.

This could end-up being a very rare opportunity. A 5-4 liberal young/liberal court is great, but a 6-3 young/liberal court is the stuff of dreams. Whole swaths of the GOP's agenda would suddenly be up against a hostile judiciary.. and the judiciary pretty much gets the final word on everything.

Exactly. It's an epoch making opportunity. I personally think Kennedy will retire and it will be a 6-3 opportunity.

The opposite....it's the stuff of nightmares.

 

[ZealousD]

I'm not saying that every member of it is, but enough that I'm comfortable applying that label yes. In the same way that I think the Tea Party was a racist reactionary movement against our first black President.

This will be Bernie's legacy.

Because as we all know, Clinton supporters never behave irrationally or horribly. I mean, look at 2008. There wasn't a single group of loud Hillary supporters that reacted negatively to Obama's victory. No direct analog to #BernieOrBust. Everybody acted professionally and calmly and nobody said things like "Party Unity My Ass."

Spoiler

/s, obviously

 

[Cerium]

Because as we all know, Clinton supporters never behave irrationally or horribly. I mean, look at 2008. There wasn't a single group of loud Hillary supporters that reacted negatively to Obama's victory. No direct analog to #BernieOrBust. Everybody acted professionally and calmly and nobody said things like "Party Unity My Ass."

Spoiler

/s, obviously

I was for Obama in 2008.

And as bad as that primary got, Hillary's supporters never organized doxxing and harassment campaigns. That is uniquely Bernie. That is his contribution to our politics.

 

[Alexlf]

Are people still really complaining about what Bernie said about planned parenthood? He was entirely, 100% right.

His platform was to remove money from politics, including what planned parenthood was pushing onto candidates to help shape the elections.

Trying to push that as some attack against the organization outside of that context, let alone trying to somehow turn that into being a dog whistle for some anti woman's movement is bizarre and entirely ridiculous.

Call him a hypocrite for accepting the same sorts of contributions, but don't spew some obviously false and completely garbage sentiment that paints all (or even any) of his supporters as a hate group.

 

[Cerium]

don't spew some obviously false and completely garbage sentiment that paints all (or even any) his supports as a hate group.

They should probably stop acting like one then.

 

[Alexlf]

They should probably stop acting like one then.

Lol, you'd need to point some examples out for me then, cause I'm coming up empty.

 

[MIMIC]

Added to the fact that we've already had a Clinton in office. I don't like the fact that the this position is becoming more and more like a seat of inheritance and entitlement.

 

[Cerium]

Lol, you'd need to point some examples out for me then, cause I'm coming up empty.

There's one on the last page.

Here's more.

http://fortune.com/2016/04/28/clinton-sanders-superdelegates-harassed/
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1220341
http://theslot.jezebel.com/bernie-sanders-campaign-is-concerned-about-the-berniebr-1755911898
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-35422316
https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...-biggest-problems/?postshare=1101443015069862

Go ahead and defend this. Please proceed.

 

[avaya]

Added to the fact that we've already had a Clinton in office. I don't like the fact that the this position is becoming more and more like a seat of inheritance and entitlement.

I'm curious to understand this particular line of reasoning. Why do you feel like the Presidency has become this? If we were to follow this through, do you think Canadian's should be disappointed by Trudeau for instance?

 

[Alexlf]

There's one on the last page.

Here's more.

http://fortune.com/2016/04/28/clinton-sanders-superdelegates-harassed/
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1220341

Go ahead and defend this. Please proceed.

Nothing you posted in any way indicates any level of sexism, racism, or being a hate group. They DO show some very stupid and potentially dangerous people, but if you want to connect them to some Sanders endorsed policies then you'll need to actually do so.

 

[Cerium]

Nothing you posted in any way indicates any level of sexism, racism, or being a hate group.

Trump level denial. The Washington Post article is entirely about the racism of Sanders supporters.

 

[Alexlf]

Trump level denial.

LMAO, good job on not actually addressing what I said. You do know the definitions of sexism and racism, and what a hate group is, right?

EDIT:

You edited your post after I responded... let me read.

EDIT 2:
Aaaannd, still not racist. Definitely a few of the people featured there are racist, (and I'd say mostly just ignorant, giving that the worst example listed, as far as I saw, was assuming that sanders skin colour factors into his lack of minority votes). The actual articles you linked specifically talk about how Bernie didn't acknowledge or support anything they were saying. So... that kind of runs counter to what you're trying to prove?

Regardless, you'll still need to connect this to Sander's policies, like I said above. Or are you implying that every single other politician has no extremist supporters party and Sanders is uniquely attracting them because ???. And even if that was the case (it's not) you'd still have to explain how that's somehow a hit against Sander's or some random person supporting him.

 

[Eusis]

This field fucking sucked. Who's coming in 2020?

There's also the fact that if she does a good job as president people may be warmer to her come reelection anyway. It'd probably require a complete realignment for the republicans to stand a real chance there and as of late they've been more interested in doubling down it seems to me.

 

[Emwitus]

Yes, the article saying it's been pretty much the same thing for 9 years shows that while it's exciting to have a first BLANK president, in the case of Obama the first multi-racial african-american identifying president, in the possible case of Clinton, first female president, it's been going on too long.

Having her as the first just isn't exciting.

Not that pics for such an important positions should be done on hype, but still... it's kinda of a meh-pick to many at this point.

You mean black right?

 

[Cerium]

if you want to connect them to some Sanders endorsed policies then you'll need to actually do so.

You didn't even read my original argument. It's not about policy, and it never was. Sanders was nothing more than a vehicle for the most extreme, most intolerant, most aggressive and reactionary elements on the left. It wasn't his policies that inspired his level of support, it was his uncompromising attitude and the fact that he is a straight white male. Bernie's ideological purity offered a blunt force weapon to use against Hillary and her minority supporters. That's what drew people to him, and that's why you see so many of them acting in a uniquely vile manner. It's disgusting and needs to be called out for what it is.

These people should not be welcomed into the Democratic party. Bernie's legacy should be discarded in the trash where it belongs.

 

[Adaren]

Added to the fact that we've already had a Clinton in office. I don't like the fact that the this position is becoming more and more like a seat of inheritance and entitlement.

As long as we're talking about dynasties...

Number of Clinton presidencies we've had: 1
Number of male presidencies we've had: 44

Just saying.

And I don't think that anyone, Hillary included, thinks that she's "entitled" the presidency. She's put a lot of effort into a good campaign and has a lifetime of accomplishments that make her exceptionally qualified for the role. That's led a lot of people to vote for her, because they think that her presidency will lead to the best possible outcomes.

 

[Robot Pants]

A lot of the republicans in the primary had their issues. Jeb was terrible and could not connect to people. Rubio was kinda robotic at times and had the same issue as Jeb. All of the republican presidential candidates had flaws that would have made it hard for them to beat her and they all supported policies that were all unappealing to the general electorate.

This was his point.....
Ah never mind. Been addressed.

 

[MIMIC]

I'm curious to understand this particular line of reasoning. Why do you feel like the Presidency has become this?

If (when) Hillary elected, 5 out of the last 6 Presidents will have been immediate family members. God help us if (when) Chelsea runs. Time for a Constitutional amendment.

Jeb tried, but instead of a family of Republicans, we went with Democrats this time.

As for Canada, I don't really mind what they do up there since I don't live there.

 

[Alexlf]

You didn't even read my original argument. It's not about policy, and it never was. Sanders was nothing more than a vehicle for the most extreme, most intolerant, most aggressive and reactionary elements on the left. It wasn't his policies that inspired his level of support, it was his uncompromising attitude and the fact that he is a straight white male. Bernie's ideological purity offered a blunt force weapon to use against Hillary and her minority supporters. That's why you see so many of them acting in a uniquely vile manner.

These people should not be welcomed into the Democratic party.

Holy cow, this is great. I really love how you can just factually know that everyone who supported Bernie didn't actually care about what he was saying, and only cared that he was white and demanding. Or the fact that he was only "propped up" by people in order to bludgeon minorities! Some really great facts there.

Or maybe, just maybe, his ideas resonated with people not because they wanted to attack minorities, but because they wanted to see reform with the economy at large? Because he was an alternative to the status quo, and at least spoke about actual change?

How about this, show me that statistics/evidence that backs any of that up and I'll agree! Until then I can only go on my own conclusions based on, you know, what he actually said and campaigned for.

EDIT:
Also, just want to let you know I find it really entertaining that you still keep responding to only parts of my post and ignoring the rest.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I'm going to slightly disagree with you. Firstly, Hillary absolutely is in favor of Universal Healthcare. She has the lumps to prove it. Now, she disagrees with Sander's approach, as do I. But to say that she's not in favor of it isn't really accurate.

The difference between Bernie Sanders and Hillary does come down to something you said about sticking your neck out. Hillary has learned throughout her career, that sometimes when you stick your neck out too far, it just ends up getting your head lobed off. Bernie, being an Independent back bencher for most of his career(and I don't say that with shade, I mean it in the nicest way possible, honestly) doesn't have that problem. He can yell at clouds and give speeches to empty rooms all day, and it's perfectly fine. That's not what a President does, though. That's what an ideologue does. (Again, I don't mean that in a completely negative sense.)

I'm not saying that it's not admirable. I'm not saying it's not justifiable. I'm not saying it's not alluring to some. But, a President is about getting results. Bernie has a lot of ideas (some are good, some are downright awful) but, in his 30 years of public service, he's done almost nothing to get them passed. (Again, I'm not throwing shade on him, nor am I trying to pile on the guy because this thing is over anyway).

Should a President be inspirational and aspirational? Absolutely. But, I don't think that is the sole defining factor of liberalism or progressiveness. Especially since I, and a lot of other people, find Hillary to be both of those things.

Now, I agree with you that we liberals often let the perfect become the enemy of the good. We've always had that problem, as does the right. It's just human nature.

That's a problem with most politicians to be fair. I read somewhere 6% of proposed legislation is signed into law.

Anyways, agree with everything you said. You've always been one of the more levelheaded and fair Hillary supporters.

 

[johnsmith]

You mean black right?

Obama is a "white man with black skin" according to Official Arbiter of Blackness Cornell West. Huelen's man Carson said the same thing.

I guess I finally get how someone makes the jump from Ben Carson to Bernie Sanders.

 

[Taramoor]

Other Presidents not having slept together.

Jefferson accused Adams of being a hermaphrodite. That had to come from somewhere.

 

[ZealousD]

You didn't even read my original argument. It's not about policy, and it never was. Sanders was nothing more than a vehicle for the most extreme, most intolerant, most aggressive and reactionary elements on the left. It wasn't his policies that inspired his level of support, it was his uncompromising attitude and the fact that he is a straight white male. Bernie's ideological purity offered a blunt force weapon to use against Hillary and her minority supporters. That's what drew people to him, and that's why you see so many of them acting in a uniquely vile manner. It's disgusting and needs to be called out for what it is.

These people should not be welcomed into the Democratic party. Bernie's legacy should be discarded in the trash where it belongs.

Jesus Christ. Way to belittle every single young female and minority supporter of Bernie's. You're aware that Bernie won amongst young voters regardless of any other demographic marker, right?

Maybe you can tell Erica Garner she only endorsed Bernie because he's a straight white man.

 

[Cheebo]

People talking about 2020 primaries realize the Dem primary isn't an open primary if Hillary wins right?

 

[platakul]

Jesus Christ. Way to belittle every single young female and minority supporter of Bernie's. You're aware that Bernie won amongst young voters regardless of any other demographic marker, right?

Maybe you can tell Erica Garner she only endorsed Bernie because he's a straight white man.

It's the strategy of party loyalists to erase all female voices in support of bern. We've come a long way from Gertrude Steins bone headed comments.

 

[Cerium]

Jesus Christ. Way to belittle every single young female and minority supporter of Bernie's. You're aware that Bernie won amongst young voters regardless of any other demographic marker, right?

Maybe you can tell Erica Garner she only endorsed Bernie because he's a straight white man.

This is like the Republicans in 2012 who said "B-b-but Romney won married women, the GOP can't be sexist!"

FOH with that shit.

 

[ZealousD]

This is like the Republicans in 2012 who said "B-b-but Romney won married women, the GOP can't be sexist!"

FOH with that shit.

Not even in the same ballpark. The GOP has largely sexist policies and Bernie does not.

You are implying that an extremely large chunk of the Democratic voting populace is only voting for Bernie purely based on sexist revulsion to a woman President. Which is horseshit. Especially considering the popularity of Elizabeth Warren amongst that same voting populace.

You are looking at an extreme but loud minority of Bernie voters and applying their behavior to the entire group in the worst kind of generalization. If Hillary was losing you'd see the same sort of awfulness from extremist Hillary supporters too.

And I'm no #BernieOrBust saliva-dripping crazy person either. I made my choice for Bernie when it came time to vote but it wasn't an overnight decision and I'll be fine voting for Hillary when the time comes. I'm sure as hell not going to vote for the fucking nuclear disaster known as Donald Trump no matter how white he is or how big he says his cock is.

 

[Drensch]

I really wish Bernie's kids would look up what Citizen's United was about. It certainly wasn't about Hillary wanting more money in politics.

 

[Xe4]

Are people still really complaining about what Bernie said about planned parenthood? He was entirely, 100% right.

His platform was to remove money from politics, including what planned parenthood was pushing onto candidates to help shape the elections.

Trying to push that as some attack against the organization outside of that context, let alone trying to somehow turn that into being a dog whistle for some anti woman's movement is bizarre and entirely ridiculous.

Call him a hypocrite for accepting the same sorts of contributions, but don't spew some obviously false and completely garbage sentiment that paints all (or even any) of his supporters as a hate group.

I absolutely judge him for attacking planned parenthood. It's one of the few things the government does right in order to help women's (and men's) reproductive health.

They're literally fighting for their continued existence this election, so if a candidate who poses as Uber liberal complains when they don't endorse him, I'll sure as hell be pissed. To triple down on it makes it even worse.

I'd be mad if Hillary, or Obama, or whoever, pulled that shit as well.

 

[Alexlf]

I absolutely judge him for attacking planned parenthood. It's one of the few things the government does right in order to help women's (and men's) reproductive health.

They're literally fighting for their continued existence this election, so if a candidate who poses as Uber liberal complains when they don't endorse him, I'll sure as hell be pissed. To triple down on it makes it even worse.

I'd be mad if Hillary, or Obama, or whoever, pulled that shit as well.

Right, so to go extreme hyperbole here if planned parenthood supported killing all people who's name starts with J, can we not say say "uh, that's not good"? Obviously we can and would; Doing (lots of) good doesn't make them immune to criticism by any stretch of the imagination.

Sanders did not say they should be shut down, or that they should have funding scaled back, or anything at all like that. Hell, he's spoken out in support of them/the policies they push COUNTLESS times prior and during his campaign.

All he said that by giving money to politicians in an attempt to influence policy they are part of the establishment and that is entirely, 100% correct.

 

[Days like these...]

This is like the Republicans in 2012 who said "B-b-but Romney won married women, the GOP can't be sexist!"

FOH with that shit.

As a minority who supports Bernie what you said is way out of line. So why don't you 'FOH with that shit' Bernie did very well among young minorities like myself and it wasn't because he's a straight white man.

 

[Xe4]

Right, so to go extreme hyperbole here if planned parenthood supported killing all people who's name starts with J, can we not say say "uh, that's not good"? Obviously we can and would; Doing (lots of) good doesn't make them immune to criticism by any stretch of the imagination.

Sanders did not say they should be shut down, or that they should have funding scaled back, or anything at all like that. Hell, he's spoken out in support of them/the policies they push COUNTLESS times prior and during his campaign.

All he said that by giving money to politicians in an attempt to influence policy they are part of the establishment and that is entirely, 100% correct.

No we can't use that example, because it's rediculous and would never happen. Hypotheticals only work if it seems like something that is remotely reasonable.

Literally all PP did was endorse Clinton, while also commenting thats Sanders policies were also very good,to which Sanders replies by calling them establishment. Does that sound reasonable to you? Do you NOT think Sanders should be criticized for that? And no, PP is not above critisism, no organization is. But they did nothing to deserve what Sanders said about them.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

I think Hillary is a fairly rotten person and a proto-political robot, but there are no words for how much of a disaster Trump would be. It's ludicrous and terrifying to even ponder.

What makes her a rotten person?
Or at least, more so than any other politician?

 

[jim-jam bongs]

You mean black right?

Trump supporters don't like saying the B word, they struggle to not make it a "hard B".

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

'Sense of Humor'

Apparently minorities aren't even allowed to make jokes. Funny, the types that are constantly complaining about how easily offended "some people" are these days never complain about people that get offended at jokes like that one. I wonder why.

 

[Alexlf]

No we can't use that example, because it's rediculous and would never happen. Hypotheticals only work if it seems like something that is remotely reasonable.

Literally all PP did was endorse Clinton, while also commenting thats Sanders policies were also very good,to which Sanders replies by calling them establishment. Does that sound reasonable to you? Do you NOT think Sanders should be criticized for that? And no, PP is not above critisism, no organization is. But they did nothing to deserve what Sanders said about them.

I did use it as an example though, and it seems to have gotten the point across

They absolutely did something to deserve what Sanders said about them. Endorsing a politician is done with the intent of manipulating the election process, and even if it's done for "good", it's still a private organization using its money to influence the election. Again, directly against the core most part of Bernie's platform. Like I said, call him a hypocrite for getting endorsements as well, but what he said lines up exactly with his platform.

 

[ApharmdX]

You didn't even read my original argument. It's not about policy, and it never was. Sanders was nothing more than a vehicle for the most extreme, most intolerant, most aggressive and reactionary elements on the left. It wasn't his policies that inspired his level of support, it was his uncompromising attitude and the fact that he is a straight white male. Bernie's ideological purity offered a blunt force weapon to use against Hillary and her minority supporters. That's what drew people to him, and that's why you see so many of them acting in a uniquely vile manner. It's disgusting and needs to be called out for what it is.

These people should not be welcomed into the Democratic party. Bernie's legacy should be discarded in the trash where it belongs.

Wow, this is way over the line, on several levels. You've basically painted all Bernie supporters as sexist white males. That just isn't true. There are minorities who did vote for him, myself included. What you said is offensive. And while Bernie is a straight male, he's Jewish... you claiming that his level of support comes from sexism is like me claiming that Hillary's level of support comes from her being a gentile. Jews are a minority group that has seen plenty of discrimination. We've never had a Jewish president or VP. Are there sexist Sanders supporters? Of course. But to say that's the driving force behind him getting ~40% of the vote? That's crazy talk.

In the end, it was about policy for Bernie supporters, but even more so I think it was about personal credibility. Sanders hasn't been 100% right in his positions, and he's changed on issues over the years, but overall the man has been a solid progressive his entire political career of four decades. Congrats to Hillary for the win, but jfc, some of you guys really got off course during this primary.

 

[Polioliolio]

Can't wait till Hillary becomes president.
She deserves it. Much love for Bernie. Maybe he can be VP.

Just shaking my head at the republicans who nominated doctor robotnik. What is wrong with you. Republicans are weird by nature, but at least Jeb was a nice guy.

 

[ZealousD]

Just shaking my head at the republicans who nominated doctor robotnik.

Dr. Robotnik? Really?

Dr. Robotnik would have been one of the better candidates for the Republican party.

 

[devilhawk]

There's also the fact that if she does a good job as president people may be warmer to her come reelection anyway. It'd probably require a complete realignment for the republicans to stand a real chance there and as of late they've been more interested in doubling down it seems to me.

If the economy were to tank and the GOP put up another Romney/McCain-like candidate, they would have a real decent chance. It wouldn't even require much change in the republican party. The economy dictates elections far more than anything else.

 

[Particle Physicist]

If (when) Hillary elected, 5 out of the last 6 Presidents will have been immediate family members. God help us if (when) Chelsea runs. Time for a Constitutional amendment.

You mean 4/5 right? Who is the 5th?

So far there have been two Bush's. This isn't really a major problem.

If you are saying that Hillary will only be able to get the presidency due to "inheritance and entitlement" you are dismissing absolutely all of her accomplishments which are greater than Bill's or either of the Bush's. So it sounds like a horse shit complaint to me.

I am referring to winning one state.

Ah, you meant 'state primary' then and not 'national primary'

 

[MIMIC]

You mean 4/5 right? Who is the 5th?

So far there have been two Bush's. This isn't really a major problem.

If you are saying that Hillary will only be able to get the presidency due to "inheritance and entitlement" you are dismissing absolutely all of her accomplishments which are greater than Bill's or either of the Bush's. So it sounds like a horse shit complaint to me.

This has nothing to do with her achievements. It's about the fact that families (father-son and spouses) are running the country. Yeah, that is a major problem.