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[DontBeThatGuy]

The dehumanization of Refugees(or just the "other" in general) is never gonna stop it is, people and the governments they vote in are just too fucking shitty. (and that fucking one-man defense force, unbelievable but I can't say i'm shocked considering the poster)

 

[nillah]

This is nothing considering half the shit you hear on the news

 

[Kieli]

Damn, that's messed up. Unfortunately our major parties have brainwashed the general public into fearing these people. It's gross and I hate discussing this problem with some other Australians.



Yeah, we have our issues and many of us are trying to fix it. Where are you that your country doesn't involve itself in gross behaviour of some kind?

You know who else uses this stupid argument to deflect criticism? Russia and China.

 

[Kieli]

Australia but not Australians. LOL.

Anyway.

The UN has already castigated the government, rightly, and nothing has improved. PNG has ruled that the offshore detention system there is unconstitutional by PNG law, and bugger all response by the Australian government there either.

I don't know if you are being obtuse, but you can criticize a governmental institution without necessarily criticizing its people.

 

[HamPster PamPster]

I was first introduced to the situation with a recent replay of the This American Life web show No Island is an Island. It was a pretty insane story about the countries history (which also includes international money laundering). The craziest part about it was that the story first aired in 2003, but since then things have actually gotten even worse.

My favorite TAL episode. Hard to believe its been 13 years and nothing has improved

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

I don't know if you are being obtuse, but you can criticize a governmental institution without necessarily criticizing its people.

You can however, criticize a large number of people for being OK with this.

 

[Neoleo2143]

Why can't Mental Institutions not be pieces of shit designed to further break their patients? One Flew Over the Cuckoos nest was absurdly tame compared to this shit. The level of unsympathetic behavior is appalling.

 

[PirateKing]

How can any human do these things to kids or otherwise? I don't understand, especially from the country I live in. What the fuck.

 

[DavidDesu]

People think the concentration camps of Nazi Germany were a horror that we could simply never fall into the trap of repeating. We'd learned the lessons, we're not like that... sadly humans are a fucking twisted species and you give people some power and control and inevitably bullshit like this happens. Abu Ghraib, here, soldiers around the world raping kids because they can and so on.

Our depravity has gone nowhere, and as more and more right wing views seep back into everyday discourse and become more and more accepted again, largely driven because of irrational fears that are preyed upon by governments and sections of the media (terrorism, immigrants, disease ridden degenerates .. *descends into V For Vendetta Prothero speech*), then we're seeing this kind of thing repeated in multiple western countries.

We're fucked and don't think shit like concentration camps can't happen again. We all need to get mad about this and never stop shouting until this crap no longer happens, and we can all take our western moral superiority and shove it up our asses for good measure, we're no better than anyone else and just as susceptible to going down a dark path as any other entity has done before us.

EDIT: In the UK we have private security companies like G4S being given control of child detention centres and the like (and running into issues of improper care almost immediately), a very VERY dark path to go down, turning the protection of minors, immigrants, the metally ill etc into a profit driven business. Aye like that won't go spectacularly wrong. Fuck this evil neocapitalism.

 

[NEO0MJ]

You know who else uses this stupid argument to deflect criticism? Russia and China.

It's funny how I sometimes check out obvious propaganda channels and see exactly that. Like, they show a segment talking about how shit things are in america with shootings/etc and then cut it to talk about this new project/plant here that will revolutionize things for their own country.

 

[AuthenticM]

This reads like some shit that would happen in the 1940s.

What the fuck, Australia?

 

[Neoleo2143]

How can any human do these things to kids or otherwise? I don't understand, especially from the country I live in. What the fuck.

Because they don't see these people as humans.

 

[Kozak]

Sigh..

As an Australian theres nothing I can do about this. I'm of a Turkish background. A lot of White Australians don't even want me to be here. If they had their way, they would have turned away my family when coming here. "Sorry, no terrorists".

I don't expect this to stop anytime soon. I mean Pauline Hanson just got re-elected into a huge position of power.

The idea of "stopping the boats" is used in fucking Liberal's election campaign. Thats how strongly White Australians feels towards refugeees... Its sickening.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

Only a few days and it seems the story is already buried. There's barely anything on the news or even social media. People just don't give a shit.

 

[bomma_man]

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/aug/11/labor-will-reintroduce-bill-to-force-mandatory-reporting-of-child-abuse-after-nauru-files

Australia’s immigration minister, Peter Dutton, has accused asylum seekers of making false allegations of sexual assault and self-harming – including by setting themselves on fire – in order to come to Australia.

On Thursday Dutton dismissed the revelations contained in the Nauru files published by the Guardian, which contain graphic reports of sexual assault, child abuse and self-harm written by detention centre staff and said: “Most of that’s been reported on before.”

He said: “I won’t tolerate any sexual abuse whatsoever. But I have been made aware of some incidents that have been reported, false allegations of sexual assault, because in the end people have paid money to people smugglers and they want to come to our country.

“Some people have even gone to the extent of self-harming and people have self-immolated in an effort to get to Australia, and certainly some have made false allegations in an attempt to get to Australia.”

 

[Log4Girlz]

Yea they set themselves on fire. Total scam. Don't believe their lies.

:/

 

[Netherscourge]

What a disgrace.

Talk about a failed system...

 

[DrSlek]

I blame this almost entirely on the Australian media.

#1 - Murdoch rags and other commercial news sources swallow the shit the government feeds them and in many cases actively push the "Boat people are scary" angle because they know the average Australian is an easily scared idiot.

#2 - Many more reasonable news sources simply don't dig deep enough into the issue because they're terrified of government prosecution.

 

[Cohsae]

Peter Dutton makes me physically ill.
Man fuck that cunt.

 

[TheSecondSpitter]

Still a better place to live in than 90% of the world, and it's not like racism doesn't exist elsewhere.
I wish I could live there personally.

I moved to a country that isn't as prosperous as "the arse end of the world" (as a former Australian PM once described it), where I struggle with the local language and I'm still better off.

 

[Demoskinos]

The fuck man why does this place even exist?

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Treatment of humans beings by our country in this manner is deplorable. No excuses.

The acts/statements of some of the refugees are also deplorable. No excuses.

What's the answer? Fucked if I pretend to even know.

I disagree with treating people as subhuman, especially kids etc. I disagree with opening our borders 100% free for all. I understand reform is a continuous need for this complex issue, I understand humanitarianism is required, I understand safety/process is also required.

From my limited knowledge Australia is still the 2nd highest immigration country per capita. Another words if you follow the right processes we invite you in to share our country. I don't know what to do from here with those that don't follow our immigration policies and worse those that create a black market far worse than our immigration policies. We can't exactly force local regional countries the refugees are fleeing from to improve their policies or living standards so there is no need for refugees from the source, it feels like we're dealing with issues that don't arise from within our own borders.

I wish to trust our government to get it right but it's not feeling anything near "correct" yet and I truly feel sorry for any persons or families being ill treated. Avoiding our immigration policies should not equate to abuse or out of the public eye. It shouldn't be priority entry ahead of those that do follow our policies either.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

From my limited knowledge Australia is still the 2nd highest immigration country per capita. Another words if you follow the right processes we invite you in to share our country. I don't know what to do from here with those that don't follow our immigration policies and worse those that create a black market far worse than our immigration policies. We can't exactly force local regional countries the refugees are fleeing from to improve their policies or living standards so there is no need for refugees from the source, it feels like we're dealing with issues that don't arise from within our own borders.

I wish to trust our government to get it right but it's not feeling anything near "correct" yet and I truly feel sorry for any persons or families being ill treated. Avoiding our immigration policies should not equate to abuse or out of the public eye. It shouldn't be priority entry ahead of those that do follow our policies either.

As both an immigrant and someone who briefly worked for a migration firm, it is impossible for refugees to "follow the right process." If they had the time and resources to do so, they wouldn't be coming in as refugees in the first place

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

As both an immigrant and someone who briefly worked for a migration firm, it is impossible for refugees to "follow the right process." If they had the time and resources to do so, they wouldn't be coming in as refugees in the first place

I can understand that's a reality for them, how do we deal with that? We can't just open the whole show up and say hey show up and here's some dole money, here's some housing, here's some clothing, here's food, here's medical...

I'm all for helping your fellow humans, I'm not trying to be disingenuous here. Again from my limited understanding most of the refugees on the boats, who side step our immigration policies, are paying $1,000s if not $10,000s of dollars and getting ripped by the black market operators feeding them into these situations.

What do you suggest as viable solutions?

 

[Subpar Scrub]

You know who else uses this stupid argument to deflect criticism? Russia and China.

If you read the rest of the thread, I acknowledge the criticism multiple times. My comment was in relation to a another users (in my opinion) silly post.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Wilson Security huh?

Doesn't surprise me. Disgusting.

 

[walking fiend]

I can understand that's a reality for them, how do we deal with that? We can't just open the whole show up and say hey show up and here's some dole money, here's some housing, here's some clothing, here's food, here's medical...

I'm all for helping your fellow humans, I'm not trying to be disingenuous here. Again from my limited understanding most of the refugees on the boats, who side step our immigration policies, are paying $1,000s if not $10,000s of dollars and getting ripped by the black market operators feeding them into these situations.

What do you suggest as viable solutions?

Haha This is so disgusting it is even funny...

Germany has accommodated 1 million refugees ; and you are saying you can't accommodate maybe 10,000 people and have to send them to concentration camps?

You are not disingenuous, you are just horrible. And your government and those who support your government are horrible.

edit: There are only "442" people living there... What a shame.

 

[Toxi]

The most appalling thing about this is how Australia would rather have this happen than admit less than 450 people.

Only a few days and it seems the story is already buried. There's barely anything on the news or even social media. People just don't give a shit.

Do your best and talk about this with whoever you can find. It needs to be said.

 

[PsychBat!]

I can understand that's a reality for them, how do we deal with that? We can't just open the whole show up and say hey show up and here's some dole money, here's some housing, here's some clothing, here's food, here's medical...

I'm all for helping your fellow humans, I'm not trying to be disingenuous here. Again from my limited understanding most of the refugees on the boats, who side step our immigration policies, are paying $1,000s if not $10,000s of dollars and getting ripped by the black market operators feeding them into these situations.

What do you suggest as viable solutions?

good gravy

 

[Dryk]

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/aug/11/labor-will-reintroduce-bill-to-force-mandatory-reporting-of-child-abuse-after-nauru-files

Peter Dutton channeling this guy

 

[Cybrwzrd]

The person that sewed their lips together was a traumatized child, there are possibly hundreds of reasons that she thought she had to. I doubt it is a cultural thing, just the act of an extremely scared, confused, child likely driven to mental instability by her callous and abusive treatment.

It actually may not be a cultural thing, but it appears she wasn't the only one doing it.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-11-19/asylum-seekers-sew-lips-together/2343854

Still sick. I hope these reports cause some change.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

I can understand that's a reality for them, how do we deal with that? We can't just open the whole show up and say hey show up and here's some dole money, here's some housing, here's some clothing, here's food, here's medical...

I'm all for helping your fellow humans, I'm not trying to be disingenuous here. Again from my limited understanding most of the refugees on the boats, who side step our immigration policies, are paying $1,000s if not $10,000s of dollars and getting ripped by the black market operators feeding them into these situations.

What do you suggest as viable solutions?

Mate, as a fellow Aussie, you're the problem. Who gives a shit if we need to pay for them to live here? We support enough dole bludgers who aren't coming from war zones.

They were just talking about this story on the local radio, and apparently the politicians only have a problem with them coming via boat and are investigating. Getting the message across that they shouldn't use boats is fine, but then there's no real options for them to get here otherwise. Except for flying here under pretences of a holiday and claiming asylum once they land. Which is a bit of an ask considering many of them don't have passports or a realistic way to fly here.

It's a terrible mess, and I hope after this investigation some good changes happen. It's too easy for the majority here to say "out of sight, out of mind".

 

[IdreamofHIME]

People think the concentration camps of Nazi Germany were a horror that we could simply never fall into the trap of repeating. We'd learned the lessons, we're not like that... sadly humans are a fucking twisted species and you give people some power and control and inevitably bullshit like this happens. Abu Ghraib, here, soldiers around the world raping kids because they can and so on.
.

Shitty prisons with high abuse is not the same as a Nazi concentration camp. Comparing the two is an insult to both parties and shining light of ignorance.
As horrible as the Australian government is being here and as much as they should be nailed to the wall for it, those people are not being detained with the end goal of mass killing and genocide.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Is there an issue with talking through things? I literally started with statements like "Treatment of humans beings by our country in this manner is deplorable. No excuses.", "limited knowledge" and "what do you suggest", obviously that degrades into negativity instead of educating me or proposing workable solutions.

Nice to know y'all can be mature about things.

 

[wachie]

Australia, how fucking disgusting shit can like this can you let go.

 

[Sulik2]

All this for 450 people? Just let them into country. Humanity is a waste of a species.

 

[bomma_man]

Shitty prisons with high abuse is not the same as a Nazi concentration camp. Comparing the two is an insult to both parties and shining light of ignorance.
As horrible as the Australian government is being here and as much as they should be nailed to the wall for it, those people are not being detained with the end goal of mass killing and genocide.

They aren't prisons. They haven't been convicted of any crime. It's indefinite administrative detention that isn't subject to judicial oversight (thanks high court).

 

[wachie]

I blame this almost entirely on the Australian media.

#1 - Murdoch rags and other commercial news sources swallow the shit the government feeds them and in many cases actively push the "Boat people are scary" angle because they know the average Australian is an easily scared idiot.

#2 - Many more reasonable news sources simply don't dig deep enough into the issue because they're terrified of government prosecution.

Idiot? That sounds more like a racist.

Every country has them but having less racists will lead to the ouster of fear politics. It's why an Australian fear mongering strategist was hired in the last Canadian election and Canadians shut it down. Pretty sure some fell for the tactic, just that having less of such "racists" is the key.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

All this for 450 people? Just let them into country. Humanity is a waste of a species.

So what do you do with the next 1,000 that show up, then the 3,000 that show up...do you ever draw a line?

Does anyone consider the returning of the boats lowers the detention numbers too?

 

[bomma_man]

So what do you do with the next 1,000 that show up, then the 3,000 that show up...do you ever draw a line?

Does anyone consider the returning of the boats lowers the detention numbers too?

... But it just returns them to the place they were trying to escape from? It might help to absolve ourselves from responsibility, but it does nothing to actually help the people.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

... But it just returns them to the place they were trying to escape from? It might help to absolve ourselves from responsibility, but it does nothing to actually help the people.

Again what solutions do you propose? No one has any solution offerings...

 

[JC Sera]

Again what solutions do you propose? No one has any solution offerings...

maybe just maybe, we could
let them into the county

Spoiler

like the majority of illegal refugees that dont come by boat

 

[mujun]

So what do you do with the next 1,000 that show up, then the 3,000 that show up...do you ever draw a line?

Does anyone consider the returning of the boats lowers the detention numbers too?

Let them all in if they are from a country recognized as war-torn or whatever. Is it worth maintaining our standard of living at the expense of people's lives and so much suffering. Between every developed country in the world it should be possible to give every refugee a chance.

Sure our standard of living is going to take a hit but it's already disgustingly high on the backs of cheap labor and the like.

 

[Garuroh]

Australia is my most hated country for a reason

 

[bomma_man]

Again what solutions do you propose? No one has any solution offerings...

-we could give more funding to the UNHCR an other organisations that process and house refugees to put the people smugglers out of business - ie address demand for shitty boats;
-we could not get involved in wars that cause refugees (although it's not like Afghanistan and Iraq were happy places beforehand);
-we could not fund regimes that persecute their people (Sri Lanka);
-we're twenty somethingth in terms of refugee intake per capita. Not the worst, but far from a model citizen;
-we could take action on climate change;
-we could increase rather than decrease foreign aid.

Don't act like this is a last resort; that we're already doing absolutely everything in our power to prevent this.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

maybe just maybe, we could
let them into the county

Spoiler

like the majority of illegal refugees that dont come by boat

Do we let them in and then apply our immigration/citizenship policies over a short span of time? What do we do if they're out of work for more than 12-36 months, how does international law go from there about sending them back if things are then better in their countries? How do we go about integrating them for permanent residency? What skills or communication levels do they lack or introduce?

I'll freely admit a limited knowledge on the subject, I've now taken a very little amount of time to research some facts. It appears boat people are an increasing issue over just a few short years with a cyclic pattern, perhaps that reflects government policies more than actual events. This also appears to fly in the face of your spoiler post about those arriving through means other than boats e.g. overstaying VISAs.

Boat people have reduced from 4500 detainees to around 450 from 2013 to 2016. I don't dare comment if this is good or bad but it's a factual difference.

Now compare that to VISAs overstayed in the above graphic from 2013 and I take your spoiler post as being somewhat accurate for a specific period of time and not reflective of the cyclic nature.

 

[remz]

A few thousand refugees seems pretty tiny compared to a population of 24 million, IMO. I don't understand why letting them in is perceived to be this huge flood.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

Australia is my most hated country for a reason

Thanks for your input into this discussion. Was worth the space on the page 👌

A few thousand refugees seems pretty tiny compared to a population of 24 million, IMO. I don't understand why letting them in is perceived to be this huge flood.

Because they'll take our jobs and all of our tax money through welfare at the same time somehow. And then people will think it's fine and come here in larger numbers.

Do we need some type of processing? It's preferred. But it takes too long and in shitty conditions, and that's the ones lucky enough to not drown or be towed back.

Australia, how fucking disgusting shit can like this can you let go.

What?

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

A few thousand refugees seems pretty tiny compared to a population of 24 million, IMO. I don't understand why letting them in is perceived to be this huge flood.

Perhaps this is right, I think our working population (income earners) is around 60% so approx. 14.4 million to foot the bills. That seems reasonable.

I can only speak for myself but I do have concern that letting a batch in leads to larger batches expecting the same over time. Does a few thousand turn into 10,000s? I don't pretend to know what figure we can handle successfully.

-we could give more funding to the UNHCR an other organisations that process and house refugees to put the people smugglers out of business - ie address demand for shitty boats;
This I can agree with but it's been objectively shown in the last decade the boats keep coming due to black market conditions.

-we could not get involved in wars that cause refugees (although it's not like Afghanistan and Iraq were happy places beforehand);
This I can agree with.

-we could not fund regimes that persecute their people (Sri Lanka);
This I can agree with.

-we're twenty somethingth in terms of refugee intake per capita. Not the worst, but far from a model citizen;
I agreed with this above but we are #2 for refugee resettlement e.g. a third party country welcoming in refugees we send them at our expense

-we could take action on climate change;
I don't think this is related? Educate me if I'm ignorant here

-we could increase rather than decrease foreign aid.
Being a first world country I can agree with this, also given in 2014 our government cut $11 billion over four years for foreign aid I think this could reasonably be increased

Don't act like this is a last resort; that we're already doing absolutely everything in our power to prevent this.

Thanks for having a mature chat with some actual proposed solutions. I edited in italics for my take on your points. I don't think it's a last resort, far from it. I'm just not up for opening our country to the entire world without process in place. We're unique in having such a small population and our position on the world stage, I want that managed intelligently and humanely. I don't want the Australian way of life to go the way of the dodo, nor do I want our living or education standards to drop. I'm not ignorant to label refugees, whatever path they take to get here, as the issue. I just want checks and balances for permanent residency is all. Similarly I want humane treatment for all to have checks and balances, no matter the government policies.

 

[BigDes]

It actually may not be a cultural thing, but it appears she wasn't the only one doing it.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-11-19/asylum-seekers-sew-lips-together/2343854

Still sick. I hope these reports cause some change.

Christ.

Those poor kids