It loses a certain je ne sais quoi when it's split into two cases within the structure of the game. I would have honestly preferred it if they just left it at 4 cases and left it stitched together, but that would probably have looked bad when they brought back Ace Attorney after years in the wilderness and it only had 4 cases
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Ace Attorney 5: Dual Destinies |OT| Rated M For Objectionable Content
- Thread starter BlackJace
- Start date
As it stands, I don't personally think case 4 was bad, it was just silly to
have the case end on such a sudden note and then add in the dramatic effect of the reveal right before the screen goes black (when it could have easily been done before the verdict for the current defendent was even handed down) and then the word End pops up and then the next case starts and you are literally at the exact same place the last case ended
Oh shit, you are getting near the end! I'm pumped, post impressions right away!
For prosperity's sake let's assume that Case 4/5 are one case. It would have to deal with the following:
- Contain the flashback trial before Case 1.
- Contain the resolution to the trial taking place immediately after Case 1.
- Bring up Athena's past, something which hasn't been brought up before, and have a case within a case.
- Bring up the concept of the Phantom and tie it together throughout the entire story.
- Have Simon's backstory explained.
- The final showdown.
- Hold up four different subplots at once.
The third point is already where it'd come falling apart. It would not be anywhere near as effective to just shoehorn one of the three main characters of the entire game into being the centerpiece of the case in the middle of it. By separating the cases you already have a different outset going into it, and you know that there will be enough time to actually focus on just her and her alone.
No other case, with the exception of 1-5 and 4-5, juggle this many separate plot points. The former got away with it since the sub plots only started becoming crucial by the very last day of the case, while 4-5 was a complete clusterfuck.
People are already complaining about cases such as Case 2 being too needlessly overcomplicated so honestly this made things a lot more manageable. Separating Case 4 and 5 was a good idea in my opinion, it means there's enough time to breathe between the cases and establish what the focus is.
- Contain the resolution to the trial taking place immediately after Case 1.
- Bring up Athena's past, something which hasn't been brought up before, and have a case within a case.
- Bring up the concept of the Phantom and tie it together throughout the entire story.
- Have Simon's backstory explained.
- The final showdown.
- Hold up four different subplots at once.
The third point is already where it'd come falling apart. It would not be anywhere near as effective to just shoehorn one of the three main characters of the entire game into being the centerpiece of the case in the middle of it. By separating the cases you already have a different outset going into it, and you know that there will be enough time to actually focus on just her and her alone.
No other case, with the exception of 1-5 and 4-5, juggle this many separate plot points. The former got away with it since the sub plots only started becoming crucial by the very last day of the case, while 4-5 was a complete clusterfuck.
People are already complaining about cases such as Case 2 being too needlessly overcomplicated so honestly this made things a lot more manageable. Separating Case 4 and 5 was a good idea in my opinion, it means there's enough time to breathe between the cases and establish what the focus is.
Something else about cases 4 and 5:
DLC case is pretty great, though, so hopefully that'll help people get a bit more out of the game.
really, most of case 5 is spent solving Metis' murder, not Clay's. It wouldn't be the first time they did a case within a case (see 1-5 with Marshall and Goodman), but it's not the worst split ever.
DLC case is pretty great, though, so hopefully that'll help people get a bit more out of the game.
It's easy to say that but really think about it. I don't think anyone is complaining about the Case 4/5 content at all. All of us seem to like the twists, turns, and sub plots and anyone who likes everything wouldn't be calling the plot needlessly overcomplicated (a lot of people saying that didn't really like the characters or the lore or other pieces of case 2). Combining them into one case would make it
2 investigations and 2.5 days in court, making it just slightly longer than 3-5 which many love and which also had a lot of subplots and one that was tying together strands that went all the way back to the first game
Huw_Dawson
Member
I think it's clear that they compromised on the case 4+5 thing as they knew they'd be selling a DLC case.
I had an awesome thought about that Telltale Games news earlier this week ("we've just got hold of an awesome IP to work with", to paraphrase).
An Ace Attorney game done by Telltale would probably be the best thing in the history of the universe. And it'd work out well for their episodic model because they already do games in five parts. And their engine is for cartoon-style games, perfect for Ace Attorney.
I had an awesome thought about that Telltale Games news earlier this week ("we've just got hold of an awesome IP to work with", to paraphrase).
An Ace Attorney game done by Telltale would probably be the best thing in the history of the universe. And it'd work out well for their episodic model because they already do games in five parts. And their engine is for cartoon-style games, perfect for Ace Attorney.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
I think that Case 4 works very well on its own, and they absolutely made the right call. It also addresses a criticism some people have put against the games in the past.
That being that you can prove your client couldn't commit the crime, but still not get them declared not guilty until you finger the real killer. I really liked that they had it so that you could decisively prove that Starbuck couldn't have committed the crime, but you're still no closer to finding the true culprit. It made sense to end the trial there, and then commence with Athena being put on trial for the fifth case.
Spieler Eins
Member
But these two already ARE one case. The playtime of the game will also not change whether or not you change the case numbering, the only thing that changes is that people expect more than what you actually get. Even if you separate one part of the story, it should at least have it's own identity/purpose. Case 4 however is a mere intro of case 5, if even that. There's no developments, other than the obvious chamber switch revelation - hence even tutorial cases feel meatier.
SoulUnison
Banned
Just finished Case 2. That dragged on and on. I honestly really hate when they show you the culprit in the opening cutscene for a case, because it just turned playing the case into "When is that guy going to finally show up?" and then "There he is. When am finally going to take him down?"
That and the terrible pacing made it a real chore to get through. Definitely one of the most forgettable cases in the series, to me.
Does anyone else feel like the localization has been a huge step down from previous games? Characters seem to speak awkwardly and there's glaring typos all over the place - really takes me out of the game. Case 2 was all about "Yokai, yokai, yokai!" when I feel like they could have just used "demon," and Blackquill's "Justice-dono" nickname is just... awkward. Don't even get me started on the introduction to Mood Matrix. "I can hear his heart's voice! Heart, heart, heart, HEART!" All this "dark age of the law" stuff is pretty cringe-worthy, too.
And, this might sound weird, but I can see where IGN was coming from with the "too linear" line. I feel like I'm not so much playing a game anymore as I'm just reading a digital novel that needs my input every now and then.
The "notes" function tells you exactly where to go and what to present to who, when it used to be something you had to think about to figure out what to show to who to get them to reveal or elaborate on something. The characters are also constantly telling me exactly what I need to do, and sometimes thing that would have required evidence or something in previous games is just automatically figured out by the characters. And why even have a penalty bar anymore? If you fail you just get it refilled and go back to exactly where you failed. There's no tension anymore. I loved playing the games by only allowing myself to save during breaks in the action.
Fulbright's already getting on my nerves. I miss Gumshoe. He was a character without being a caricature.
I'm interested in seeing more of Kay's story, though, that cutscene early in Case 1 with the blood and the nightmare-faced people was surprisingly creepy. It makes me wish this game had a little bit more 999 in its tone and delivery. Suddenly it seems awfully upbeat for a game where people are constantly being brutally murdered.
Anyway, I'm just hoping this game picks up, because so far it hasn't come close to the first 4. It hasn't even pulled me in as much as AA:I did, and I *hated* that game for ditching the courtroom.
Time to start Case 3.
EDIT: Oh! And where'd INVESTIGATING go? You used to be able to investigate any area you could stop in, and it revealed a lot of funny stuff and character moments. If Case 2 is any indicator, you can now only investigate specific "important" areas? Laaaaame.
That and the terrible pacing made it a real chore to get through. Definitely one of the most forgettable cases in the series, to me.
Does anyone else feel like the localization has been a huge step down from previous games? Characters seem to speak awkwardly and there's glaring typos all over the place - really takes me out of the game. Case 2 was all about "Yokai, yokai, yokai!" when I feel like they could have just used "demon," and Blackquill's "Justice-dono" nickname is just... awkward. Don't even get me started on the introduction to Mood Matrix. "I can hear his heart's voice! Heart, heart, heart, HEART!" All this "dark age of the law" stuff is pretty cringe-worthy, too.
And, this might sound weird, but I can see where IGN was coming from with the "too linear" line. I feel like I'm not so much playing a game anymore as I'm just reading a digital novel that needs my input every now and then.
The "notes" function tells you exactly where to go and what to present to who, when it used to be something you had to think about to figure out what to show to who to get them to reveal or elaborate on something. The characters are also constantly telling me exactly what I need to do, and sometimes thing that would have required evidence or something in previous games is just automatically figured out by the characters. And why even have a penalty bar anymore? If you fail you just get it refilled and go back to exactly where you failed. There's no tension anymore. I loved playing the games by only allowing myself to save during breaks in the action.
Fulbright's already getting on my nerves. I miss Gumshoe. He was a character without being a caricature.
I'm interested in seeing more of Kay's story, though, that cutscene early in Case 1 with the blood and the nightmare-faced people was surprisingly creepy. It makes me wish this game had a little bit more 999 in its tone and delivery. Suddenly it seems awfully upbeat for a game where people are constantly being brutally murdered.
Anyway, I'm just hoping this game picks up, because so far it hasn't come close to the first 4. It hasn't even pulled me in as much as AA:I did, and I *hated* that game for ditching the courtroom.
Time to start Case 3.
EDIT: Oh! And where'd INVESTIGATING go? You used to be able to investigate any area you could stop in, and it revealed a lot of funny stuff and character moments. If Case 2 is any indicator, you can now only investigate specific "important" areas? Laaaaame.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
*does a chibi Miku dance for Moonlight*
chickdigger802
Banned
shit, i'm still midway through case 4.
starbuck got easily the best animations so far.
and ponco <3.
wonder if this game would have been rated M if the photos were still black and white lol
starbuck got easily the best animations so far.
and ponco <3.
wonder if this game would have been rated M if the photos were still black and white lol
Case 5 trial 1 over with.
This stuff has all been pretty damn great.
Well part 1, or whatever is happening. APOLLO WHAT ARE YOU DOIN
Guessing he's going to bring Athena back into it. For some reason my gut feeling was that somehow Clay is the phantom here as he would have knowledge of how the robots fuction to fool it, but then I would have no idea why he got killed. But I'm sure this case will flip everything once again, lol.
Guessing he's going to bring Athena back into it. For some reason my gut feeling was that somehow Clay is the phantom here as he would have knowledge of how the robots fuction to fool it, but then I would have no idea why he got killed. But I'm sure this case will flip everything once again, lol.
This stuff has all been pretty damn great.
Huh?
How else would the same audio from the original tape be used unless you meant a super tedious process of having two tape recorders with one recording the audio playing from the first, which would probably be extremely inefficient.
The Hermit
Member
Oh God, in the middle of Case 5. So many feels, this is amazing, I just want some music from PW1 and this would be perfect...
Technoweirdo
Member
The school had one mat. One. Mat. And you expect them to have two tapes? The school had to cut their budget somewhere!!
how can you hate case 3
For me, it was mostly the fact that stuff was too predictable and the world felt too small/unbelievable. Whenever somebody said
only those participating in the mock trial could have walked around the school freely, I thought that was super stupid. As a rule that's dumb and there's going to be kids/teachers/parents who aren't going to follow that rule. I also thought it was dumb how nobody noticed/mentioned that Means wasn't visible while making his speech until whatshisname brought it up. How did the police fuck up with the clock and miss the blood on the pottery in the art room until Apollo/Athena arrived? And the one mat thing that somebody else mentioned.
I just want to confirm something because I always forget when each case takes place in these games.
Chronologically, it goes 2 > 3 > 4 > 1 > 5, right?
I'm only on case 4, but some familiar things are popping up, so this takes place
, right?
Chronologically, it goes 2 > 3 > 4 > 1 > 5, right?
I'm only on case 4, but some familiar things are popping up, so this takes place
the day before/it will lead directly into the court room bombing in case 1
Yup. I was sorta confused about that at first too.
You will get a piece that IMO rivals anything from PW1 in terms of epicness. A bit untraditional fare though. Listen for it.
Flux or Papercuts, who to believe...?
4 has to be before 1 though, because Candice Arme is still alive haha.
I forgot some elements such as
Apollo's status with the Wright Anything Agency at the very start of case 4 compared to at the start of case 1 and Candice's status as well, but case 4 absolutely ends after any case except for 5.
So basically:
Case 2 > Case 3 > Start of Case 4 > Case 1 > End of Case 4 > Case 5
Apollo's leave of absence speech is even in Case 4, as plain text instead of the animation, if I recall correctly.
Apollo's leave of absence speech is even in Case 4, as plain text instead of the animation, if I recall correctly.
ActStriker
Member
This is correct.
Yup. I somehow forgot there was a
timeline break in case 4, which is why I was somewhat confused about potentially contradicting events in my first post.
It's the first case
Phoenix takes after he regains his badge, so yeah, that sounds right.
Between case 2 and case 3.
Technoweirdo
Member
You know how hard they are to find on short notice when they're hidden? There was only time to steal one! Perhaps not even that considering Scuttlebutt's a master of tactical espionage action, so Means had to use the only one the school bought!
I think GSR said it's between 2 and 3
EDIT: Too late, GSR already posted in this thread lol
WHAT
THE
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FUUUUUUUUUUCK
Case 5 I presume?