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Ace Attorney Community Thread - MUNCHMUNCHMUNCHMUNCHMUNCH
- Thread starter Professor Beef
- Start date
ColossalLazy
Member
Very good.
Magnet_Man
Member
The writing is all kinds of slow, meaningless fluff and I hate the characters. I hate Mahone or whatever her name is in the localized version because she does nothing but stand on the side with her hands clasped and her tear-filled anime eyes open extra wide while every other character solves her problems for her. I hate how one character in this game is absolute selfish, idiotic scum, yet the game lauds them as a hero. But more than anything aside from the ending...
Layton is my most hated type of character. He's so goddamn perfect. He knows everything. He knows how to handle every situation. He never hesitates. He never makes mistakes. He figures things out long before anyone. He solves all the problems. Everyone loves him and he loves everyone. Give me a freaking break. Even his design pisses me off because he actually looks like a piece of wood with a top hat.
This is a Layton game, not an Ace Attorney game. Everything I hated about this game is similar to what I hated from the two Layton games I tried (Curious Village, Unwound Future). Maybe he's different in the later games. I don't know and I don't really care.
It's really good. Some even say it's the best case in the game.
Personally I think it's probably the best "filler" case there is.
Professor Beef
Banned
Yeah, PLvAA really soured me on the Lsyton games. And I was already not a fan after hearing about the ending to the first Layton game.
Nocturnowl
Member
You chaps aren't true gentleman that's for sure.
Professor Beef
Banned
Professor Beef
Banned
So in case anyone, lurker or otherwise, was waiting to get the games then now is the time. AA Trilogy and Dual Destinies are on sale on the eShop right now.
afreaknamedpete
Member
It's a bit of a strange plug but given how much attention has been thrown at various high profile fangames which all seem to be coming out at the same time (Enderal, Pokemon Uranium, AM2R) there's actually been a very ambitious Ace Attorney Fangame that was just recently released.
It's called Conflict of Interest (link goes to court-records.net forums), and it's made in some weird software designed only to program phoenix wright fangames called Pywright. It's a full length Phoenix Wright game, about maybe 30 to 40 hours to play it to completion (depending on whether or not you turn on debug mode to allow for text skip, which you should, because the text speed is molasses). It's not a game that is indistinguishable from the real product, as it wears its fangame status on its sleeve. The original characters look rather MS-painty at times, all the music is just re-used PW music or stuff from other games thrown in. They didn't even bother updating Maya's sprite, but they at least use her appearance for jokes.
The story is an alternate take on Phoenix Wright's return to the courts after the end of AA4, and feels more like an extension of AA3 than AA4 at times since Maya comes back as the main assistant again. The biggest praise I can give to this game is that the writing is amazing and completely captures the tone and style of the Ace Attorney games. All the contradictions make sense, all of the cases seem insurmountable at first and there's no glaring plot holes or inconsistencies in the story that I could see. There's also nothing glaringly stupid, like MASON or weird gimmicks that don't really make alot of sense. There's a ton of great emotional moments too, not just the whole triumph feeling that Ace Attorney can give you at the end of the case but the writing is very effective on pulling your heartstrings.
On the flip side it doesn't really do anything new with the formula, besides some very minor tweaks. Like, absurdly enough, even the case-by-case review feels like an old PW game. It was a throwaway shit first case, a really interesting and cool 2nd case, a weak 3rd case where they threw in all the annoying witnesses, and an utterly amazing unforgettable climax in the 4th and 5th cases also with one of the best final villains (that doesn't overstay his welcome *cough AAI cough*). Some of the problems with PW, like dragging on investigation parts, also feel exacerbated by the increased length of this game.
And the biggest, near-fatal flaw in this game is that it's simply too absurdly hard. It's not that the contradictions are complex, there are a ton of non-obvious roundabout contradictions but they all make sense when they're explained in universe and kind of feel obvious in hindsight. The actual PW game has tons of these, this fangame's actual mystery elements are only slightly more complicated than the average phoenix wright case. But the PW games usually try to telegraph it pretty obviously, like they'll start a hypothesis and then expect the player to finish it. This game just doesn't seem to give a shit about easing it in. Like characters will have a long discussion about needing to prove X, and then the green prompt from the judge will literally be something like: Present your Decisive Evidence! with literally no other hints. The third case in particular requires you to present I think 4 pieces of evidence in a row, without any indication you're on the right track, and if you get one off the game doesn't even tell you which ones you got right and you have to try all over again. Worse yet sometimes a detail (like say WitnessA testified about the murder weapon) which will occur during the case will not actually be updated in the court record. But you're still expected to point it out whenever a witness contradicts a statement about evidence that wasn't even in the court record.
I had to consult the included-guide about 3-4 times a case because I was just utterly stumped.
That being said, if you are okay with accepting defeat sometimes, the writing in this game is really good, basically indistinguishable from the actual Ace Attorney games. It has everything you love about AA, but also everything you hate as well. I'd easily rank it above Dual Destinies for how much enjoyment I got out of it, and I actually really liked DD. In any case, it's definitely worth checking out.
It's called Conflict of Interest (link goes to court-records.net forums), and it's made in some weird software designed only to program phoenix wright fangames called Pywright. It's a full length Phoenix Wright game, about maybe 30 to 40 hours to play it to completion (depending on whether or not you turn on debug mode to allow for text skip, which you should, because the text speed is molasses). It's not a game that is indistinguishable from the real product, as it wears its fangame status on its sleeve. The original characters look rather MS-painty at times, all the music is just re-used PW music or stuff from other games thrown in. They didn't even bother updating Maya's sprite, but they at least use her appearance for jokes.
The story is an alternate take on Phoenix Wright's return to the courts after the end of AA4, and feels more like an extension of AA3 than AA4 at times since Maya comes back as the main assistant again. The biggest praise I can give to this game is that the writing is amazing and completely captures the tone and style of the Ace Attorney games. All the contradictions make sense, all of the cases seem insurmountable at first and there's no glaring plot holes or inconsistencies in the story that I could see. There's also nothing glaringly stupid, like MASON or weird gimmicks that don't really make alot of sense. There's a ton of great emotional moments too, not just the whole triumph feeling that Ace Attorney can give you at the end of the case but the writing is very effective on pulling your heartstrings.
On the flip side it doesn't really do anything new with the formula, besides some very minor tweaks. Like, absurdly enough, even the case-by-case review feels like an old PW game. It was a throwaway shit first case, a really interesting and cool 2nd case, a weak 3rd case where they threw in all the annoying witnesses, and an utterly amazing unforgettable climax in the 4th and 5th cases also with one of the best final villains (that doesn't overstay his welcome *cough AAI cough*). Some of the problems with PW, like dragging on investigation parts, also feel exacerbated by the increased length of this game.
And the biggest, near-fatal flaw in this game is that it's simply too absurdly hard. It's not that the contradictions are complex, there are a ton of non-obvious roundabout contradictions but they all make sense when they're explained in universe and kind of feel obvious in hindsight. The actual PW game has tons of these, this fangame's actual mystery elements are only slightly more complicated than the average phoenix wright case. But the PW games usually try to telegraph it pretty obviously, like they'll start a hypothesis and then expect the player to finish it. This game just doesn't seem to give a shit about easing it in. Like characters will have a long discussion about needing to prove X, and then the green prompt from the judge will literally be something like: Present your Decisive Evidence! with literally no other hints. The third case in particular requires you to present I think 4 pieces of evidence in a row, without any indication you're on the right track, and if you get one off the game doesn't even tell you which ones you got right and you have to try all over again. Worse yet sometimes a detail (like say WitnessA testified about the murder weapon) which will occur during the case will not actually be updated in the court record. But you're still expected to point it out whenever a witness contradicts a statement about evidence that wasn't even in the court record.
I had to consult the included-guide about 3-4 times a case because I was just utterly stumped.
That being said, if you are okay with accepting defeat sometimes, the writing in this game is really good, basically indistinguishable from the actual Ace Attorney games. It has everything you love about AA, but also everything you hate as well. I'd easily rank it above Dual Destinies for how much enjoyment I got out of it, and I actually really liked DD. In any case, it's definitely worth checking out.
Matt Attack
Member
I'll definitely give that fangame a shot! I'm willing to overlook the presentation issues if it can deliver some good mysteries.
Wow, seems like it's been in the works since 2011. Good on them. I'll try checking it out eventually.
At some point, though, I feel like people should actually make their own one of these instead of making it an Ace Attorney fan-game. We need more games with the Ace Attorney structure, and spinning the concept off into its own IP to be sold as an indie game would be neat.
At some point, though, I feel like people should actually make their own one of these instead of making it an Ace Attorney fan-game. We need more games with the Ace Attorney structure, and spinning the concept off into its own IP to be sold as an indie game would be neat.
Poltergust
Member
Played through the first case of the fangame.
I got a really good laugh when Phoenix was
Both Phoenix and I were surprised at the absurdity of something like that happening lol.
I got a really good laugh when Phoenix was
arguing with Washington about him also being competent, which the judge approved of and removed all his penalties.
Matt Attack
Member
I've finished the first four cases of the fangame mentioned above, and it is seriously impressive. The writing can feel really heavy handed at times (especially in case 4), but I still thoroughly recommend it, as both the humor and the drama have been on point. The difficulty can be pretty high, and not always in an entirely fair way, but those instances are thankfully few and far between. The custom sprites range from great to comically awful, but it's a testament to how interesting I've found the story to be that even the most ugly of sprites hasn't been enough to keep me from getting invested. Hopefully case 5 is as good as I'm expecting!
It's usually considered one of the weaker soundtracks in the series.
FWIW the series switched composers for each game at first, but started to settle down into recurring ones later. IIRC the main composers are:
Sugimori Masakazu: AA1, Ghost Trick
Akemi Kimura: AA2
Noriyuki Iwadare: AA3, AAI, AAI2, AA5, AA6
Toshihiko Horiyama: AA4, a bit of AA6 (also general sound director for most of the games IIRC)
Yasumasa Kitagawa: PLvsPW, DGS
JFA's music is kinda weak, especially compared to the first game, but the orchestrated version of the pursuit theme is still one of my favorites official covers in the series.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Justice for All has a weaker soundtrack in general, but it is the game that gave us Great Revival, which is among the best of the series in my opinion.
Baleoce
Member
Whilst admittedly it's a bit weaker than some others in the series, I think there's still some memorable tunes to be picked out.
I quite enjoyed:
Pursuit ~ Cornered
Tell the Truth 2002
Investigation ~ Middle 2002
Investigation ~ Core 2002
Great Revival ~ Miles Edgeworth
This explains a lot. I absolutely adore the AA3 and AAI2 soundtracks.
This is probably my favourite 'Pursuit' theme. Got a serious buzz whenever this played. I'd just put the DS down and listen to it on loop.
I quite enjoyed:
Pursuit ~ Cornered
Tell the Truth 2002
Investigation ~ Middle 2002
Investigation ~ Core 2002
Great Revival ~ Miles Edgeworth
This explains a lot. I absolutely adore the AA3 and AAI2 soundtracks.
This is probably my favourite 'Pursuit' theme. Got a serious buzz whenever this played. I'd just put the DS down and listen to it on loop.
Modest Mauser
Member
The weakest part in the trilogy gets the weakest soundtrack in the trilogy.
Matt Attack
Member
JFA probably has my favorite Announce the Truth theme in the series, and I'm a big fan of the Cross-Examination and Objection themes. It also introduced a few mainstays for the series, such as the Psyche Lock music, and I prefer the version of Maya's theme that debuted with the game. Outside of the very different Cornered theme, it's a solid soundtrack. Just not the best.
Professor Beef
Banned
The US is getting a demo for the new Ace Attorney today, in case someone else was unaware.
I previously only played Apollo Justice, and thus thought the series is super cringeworthy and bad. But having just started the 3DS trilogy and also played the Dual Destinies demo, I like those games quite a bit.
What went wrong with Apollo Justice (apart from the terrible German translation)?
What went wrong with Apollo Justice (apart from the terrible German translation)?
Professor Beef
Banned
Yeah, that's when it's coming out in the US too.
This is also from the Nintendo Downloads news we got at work today, sooooooo
You must have missed the release date announcement: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1261470
Evidently so, many thanks.
Richardbro
Neo Member
I honestly loved PLvPW. It was my GOTY 2014, and I played a majority of games to release that year.
I loved the story, characters and the music was phenomenal. Although it was a bit on the easy side, cross examining multiple witnesses at once was amazing.
i'd recommend it to any PW fan. Even the puzzles were great.
I'm really pumped for AA6.
I loved the story, characters and the music was phenomenal. Although it was a bit on the easy side, cross examining multiple witnesses at once was amazing.
i'd recommend it to any PW fan. Even the puzzles were great.
I'm really pumped for AA6.
Nocturnowl
Member
Apollo Justice still ultimately comes across as a continuation of Wright's story meaning it's funnily enough not as strong an entry point as it should be.
All your defendants are difficult to interact with for various reasons, I think this was an intentional choice but it does make things more irritating.
Case 3 is the series worst.
And maybe having two central characters being German meant the German translators took them in a different and worse direction or something.
All that said I liked the entry quite a lot but it is one of the more polarizing ones.
Now if we're talking super cringeworthy than Dual Destinies has that shit on lock.
Nocturnowl
Member
Not particularly, I'm of the mindset that you might as well play the games in order to get the best experience.
But since Apollo barely gets any development in his own game and that any interesting plot threads left dangling in AJ have been pretty much ignored so far you should do fine with DD which in itself is a pretty safe entry to the series.
Ok. I might just buy it anyway. It's cheap enough at GameStop. Order of release is important, and if I ever want to go back and play it, it might be weird.
Magnet_Man
Member
There was some corporate meddling that could only have hurt things.
Shu Takumi, primary director and writer for Ace Attorney, wanted to move away from Phoenix Wright as he felt Phoenix's story was concluded with Trials and Tribulations and began working on a new character's story. Capcom execs came in and said add Phoenix anyway and also work in a jury some how to reflect some of the changes to the actual Japanese courts recently. For a story about a rookie attorney helping a fallen one, there was no place for Phoenix except to be that fallen attorney. But since he's so close to the audience thanks to the trilogy, all our focus is put on him rather than meeting and establishing Apollo. On top of that, now the story had to accommodate and establish a need to fix AA world's law system by adding a jury.
You hear stories all the time from directors or writers having upper brass come in and make new demands. Some times it works out for the better, some times it works out for the worse and I would definitely say these were changes for the worse. While the exec demands made sense from a marketing standpoint, it was poison for the story. It's hard to say how far along Takumi was in his initial work on the story before the orders from above came in but you can see the ripples everywhere. We didn't learn anything about Apollo like why he became an attorney, what motivates him in court, etc. while we learned almost everything about Phoenix and Edgeworth's motives and ideals in the first game.
After AA4, Takumi started working on other projects while Ace Attorney was passed on to Takeshi Yamazaki who directed AA Investigations 1&2 and then back to the main series with AA5 and 6.
Capcom has all kinds of behind-the-scenes stories like this with with execs and directors butting heads.
I mean, AA4 can be said to not be "essential," but for a story-based franchise like this, it pretty much is. If you just skip to AA5 for some reason, you'll be left wondering why Phoenix Wright suddenly has a daughter and other rather important details like that.
But the thing about AA4 is that it brought actual character development to some of the existing AA cast; development we would very likely not have seen if it wasn't for some behind-the-scenes meddling. I absolutely love what they did with Wright's character, for example. The game, in general, has this feeling of "things don't always go the way you want them to." It was a cynical and realistic viewpoint I very much appreciated from a series like AA.
Ever since then, with AA5 and seemingly AA6, they've seemingly been trying to erase parts of that viewpoint that AA4 introduced, which is part of what's been disappointing me about the recent games.
Robin64
Member
He gets a daughter!? Awesome! I gotta keep playing!
Also, AA2 isn't nearly as good as AA1. Still fun, but Turnabout Big Top was boring and difficult.
MiguelMexMIstery
Member
Wow I totally forgot the next AA game is releasing soon, and I still need to finish Investigations 2, Apollo Justice and vs Layton D: hopefully I don't get spoiled
Nice lolWhen the client is actually guilty
Magnet_Man
Member
AA2 was another fun instance behind the scenes shenanigans. After Takumi returned from a vacation, he was suddenly assigned a new AA game and had four or six months to write it. He also had to change things mid-way when he decided to lift Edgeworth's role a bit higher in response to his popularity with the consumers so he wasn't always losing, facilitating Fran's introduction.
The dip in quality as a result is apparent and clearly all Takumi's creative energy was put into the game's last case. The fact that the game turned out merely weak in those circumstances instead of a mess was always amazing to me.
Absolutely, but that was hardly their intention when they gave those orders and I would've preferred a clean break from the old cast much like DGS did. By putting Phoenix in a crisis, it cannibalized the plot.
To be honest, one thing I'm looking forward to the most about AA6 English release is how people are going to react to the ending. Game has pacing problems up the ass but it gets the job done...eventually. But that ending's gonna be fun~.
Yeah, the last case is definitely the best in the game. Also the fact that he was rather constraint on time shows. There are only 4 cases total and they are shorter overall.
Edit: so I finally beat AA2. Fuck, that ending was good. In my LTTP of AA1, I was told to pace myself...but I really don't want to. I really want to start AA3. I guess pacing is good though.
After playing the demo for AA6 and reading through some impressions of it, I'm now as cautiously optimistic as ever considering what I think of AA5.
I think AA4 is still a decent game. The biggest problem being all the baggage that came with Phoenix's inclusion while the marketing surrounding the game was hyping it up as "a new beginning" for the series. Meanwhile, Apollo gets relatively little focus or character development in the game itself (compared to AA1 where it feels Phoenix gets enough development for that game to feel self-contained).
I think AA4 is still a decent game. The biggest problem being all the baggage that came with Phoenix's inclusion while the marketing surrounding the game was hyping it up as "a new beginning" for the series. Meanwhile, Apollo gets relatively little focus or character development in the game itself (compared to AA1 where it feels Phoenix gets enough development for that game to feel self-contained).
Professor Beef
Banned
Apollo is a goober anyways
I'm Apollo Justice and I'm not fine...
I gotta keep going with the anime. My problem with it is that I played the games too recently and I'm trying to actually solve the case during the cross examination.