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Ace Attorney [Mafia] |OT| Turnabout Scum

This follows on my last post, but scum knowing TG was indeed a scum tracker/watcher and no reason to believe town has a tracker, why would a godfather with a green check be afraid of doing the kill?

Idk, just incase things went unexpectedly. Playing patiently, not wanting to take any risks.

I have been sparing with my votes and he was my first day 4. I built the first case on him. Why would I try and bus him and then immediately try and protect him?
You also unvoted him two minutes after. Wasn't much of a case eihter.

Seems strange to carry that assumption into there being two godfathers. If there are two scum left, it's much more likely one of them is you or Matt imo. Still more plausible than two godfathers is that there is only one scum left. It's possible Star stopped a kill last night. I think there is a decent chance she didn't though.
I said there were two godafthers IF MA is to be believed. I don't believe him. I think it's likely MA is NK and gf is Mafia. That would explain why MA would seem to have a good track record of hunting scum. It's because he hunt's scum in day and hunts town at night. That or an elaborate bus.

Are 5 scum players in a 21 player gave too much? I guess it could be that there are only 3 scum and 1 neutral.
 
If there are two scum left, we have a 50/50 chance of getting them today. One is either MA or Zeke. No doubt. I'd there is one, we have a 1/6 chance. Just because there is almost surely a godfather doesn't mean Xam has checked them. And while Star is a preferentia potential threat to all scum, Xam is a clear and present danger to non-godfathers. It would make the most sense for scum to hit Xam and a neutral to hit Star. Since Star can't protect Xam, I think it's unlikely she stopped a kill. Next in line would be Scrafty, but with red scum in the game, is killing a 100% townie really worth risking cop discovery?? I don't think so.

Most suspicious in the game right now is Squidyj. I'm inclined to put my vote there.

However, if he flips green and we get two kills tonight, we'll be at 3/2 Mylo tomorrow. If Zeke is scum the game will be over. If he's neutral the game will probably be over since he can't win with town. If we think there are two kills left, we have to lynch Zeke imo. His power will lose us the game tomorrow if there are two kills and he isn't town. Meanwhile, even if he's green, if there are two kills we will have a guaranteed lynch in MA tomorrow.

If we think there's one kill left, Squidy's the guy imo.

So, again, how many do we really think are left? These are the only two candidates I can really see today.
 
Scrafty I LITERALLY made a post about you being able to take your time this day phase

Thank you for your incredibly valuable input.

Anyway, as I was going to posit, I noted several days ago that Squidy and Stanley were the only ones to have never placed votes on confirmed villains, and now that Stanley's out of the way that leaves only Squidy. For someone who's supposedly a confirmed ally he certainly seems to engage in a lot of malevolent activity, especially considering he was the very first individual aside from myself to receive the green check.

Simply put, I believe that he is the godfather behind this whole debacle that we've been searching for, and his alignment investigation was falsified due to his influence. Out of everyone else who remains, he's the only one who strikes me as particularly suspicious, and for that reason I strongly suggest he become our lynch candidate for today.
 
If there are two scum left, we have a 50/50 chance of getting them today. One is either MA or Zeke. No doubt. I'd there is one, we have a 1/6 chance. Just because there is almost surely a godfather doesn't mean Xam has checked them. And while Star is a preferentia potential threat to all scum, Xam is a clear and present danger to non-godfathers. It would make the most sense for scum to hit Xam and a neutral to hit Star. Since Star can't protect Xam, I think it's unlikely she stopped a kill. Next in line would be Scrafty, but with red scum in the game, is killing a 100% townie really worth risking cop discovery?? I don't think so.
We already went over that NK most likely killed Star. At least that is what I thought me and sj were goin on about.

However, if he flips green and we get two kills tonight, we'll be at 3/2 Mylo tomorrow. If Zeke is scum the game will be over. If he's neutral the game will probably be over since he can't win with town. If we think there are two kills left, we have to lynch Zeke imo. His power will lose us the game tomorrow if there are two kills and he isn't town. Meanwhile, even if he's green, if there are two kills we will have a guaranteed lynch in MA tomorrow.
Using my power as an excuse to lynch me is odd since I said I wouldn't use my power in order to save us/town a day at least. Especially odd since you agreed with me after my post.
I think Zeke abstaining from his power is a good idea. Care to go into detail your theory about me? I remember you mentioning it before.
Your whole "must lynch rage" thing didn't pop up until I mentioned you possibly being godfather. Before that, you didn't even put me on your list of "ppl worth considering" to be scum.

How would you know a neutral can't win with town, where has it been stated the neutral can't win with town? For all we know the nk killer just has to kill a certain number or something.

I can't be a neutral since there were still 2 kills the night Star blocked me,here, Day 3 star blocked me to test/prove her power. If you look at my vote on Day 4, it only counted once. So I would have to be mafia scum. Which wouldn't add up since I've been doing scum hunting as well.

Day 2 - I was poking holes in TWE's roleclaim before anyone else.
Day 3 - I hammered Salvapot with like 6 hours left? IIf I was scum I didn't even give my scummate a chance to defend himself, especially since it was close and my vote couldve went on you.
Day 4 - I made the stronger case against TG than you. You gave up on TG 2 minutes after voting for him since it seemed like Xam's ability weakened your case. My accusations about TG made more sense.
===========================================

I think we all agree there is a neutral in the game? There is no one scum had two kills a night(I can only see one scenario which I will list below)? Just like FEP, I can buy SJ being the mafia godfather. But one of the things flung against SJ is that he never voted for scum. Since that is the case, I think he would have to be the mafia godfather to know who not to vote for, unless he is nk who just lucked up with the voting.

I think MA is the NK, since I refuse to believe we would have two godfathers in this game. I guess there is an option of the game having only 3 scum and one 1 neutral.

The powers of scum have been:
Vanilla
Roleblock
Tracker/Watcher
????

I can see ???? being a kill ability, but they can't do that AND carry out the mafia kill as well. His pm may read different from the others.
It was mentioned earlier that
 
One more time reasoning.

We lynch Squidy:
Best case: He's scum and we win or go to 6 players, 5/1 town. ML MA, 3/1 town and enough votes to still lynch a scum Zeke.
Worst case: He's town and there are still 2 kills. We go immediately to 5 player 3/2 lylo. W/scum or neutral Zeke town loses. Town Zeke scum Matt means 2/1 lylo the following.

We lynch Matt:
Best: Same as above.
Worst: Town. 2 kills. Town loses.

We lynch Zeke:
Best: Same as above but with an extra day to hunt the godfather.
Worst: He flips town and there are 2 kills. We enter 5/3 mylo with a 99% guarantee on MA, then 3/1 lylo the next day with guaranteed all godfather candidates.

Do I really think Zeke is scum? Not especially, but it is the sweetest best case and the safest worst case. I realize I didn't win many points with the Stanley lynch but, like this, it was a safe course of action.

With that all said: Vote: EzekelRage

If it is clear that this won't happen, I will support a Squidy vote. If anyone's inclination is to flip this on me, keep in mind that I have the same pros and cons as Squid but with transparent voting patterns and two scum hits. It will be either 3/2 lylo or 5/1 tomorrow with no significant narrowing of targets either way.

Personally, I think it's more likely there's just one scum left than that Star blocked two kills so anyone is safe enough for today. But I would rather not bet on it.
 
Posting mobile so slow.

@rage
I don't remember you bringing up anything against TG I hadn't already said and you never voted him at all that day so let's not start that. Xam's evidence made Stanley a safer bet and that's how I play. I said several times I still felt TG the more likely scum but Stanley the more valuable flip.

Same case at play here and my reasoning is listed. If you're scum, we have a good chance of losing the game tomorrow. That's it.

I think, if you're scum, you are more likely Mafia than neutral. I don't really think you are scum though, but I don't know you are town the way I know most of the godfather candidates are town and you are dangerous. It's one thing to say you won't use your power. That's certainly a town thing to do. But there is a huge difference in saying you won't and actually not doing it.
 
Also, you accused me of being a godfather yesterday. My logic for you being the safest candidate is something that evolved today. It isn't omgus and your case is weak. The strongest argument for lynching me is going to be my posts right now suggesting you.

And we know town can't win with neutrals from the town win condition.
 
@rage
I don't remember you bringing up anything against TG I hadn't already said and you never voted him at all that day so let's not start that. Xam's evidence made Stanley a safer bet and that's how I play. I said several times I still felt TG the more likely scum but Stanley the more valuable flip.
Let's start that actually. I never voted him because I thought SP was the best lynch, and still do. Your vote also didn't end on him that day, if I'm not mistaken. Also after my post on TG, two ppl immediately voted for TG while it seems yours just got swept up, you didn't believe it yourself since you unvoted. It seems me and you both convinced SD a bit.

mind that I have the same pros and cons as Squid but with transparent voting patterns and two scum hits. It will be either 3/2 lylo or 5/1 tomorrow with no significant narrowing of targets either way.
What two scum hits are you counting exactly? Salva..........and TG? You only voted on Salva to survive, no other reason. You even stated you would vote for two ppl that ended up being town if it wasn't so close between you and Salva
Vote: SalvaPot
If my head wasn't on the block I would vote differently. Likely CB or CF, but that isn't going to happen today. If I'm around for D4 I'll build cases. As it is, it's late. I'll be poking around but that's all.
You only voted Salva to survive. So don't try to count that as points for being town.

On the comment that I just echoed what you said about TG, if that is true, why didn't anyone else vote for him after your post? Obviously what I said was more damning that what you said.

If you guys remember how the day b4 TG was lynched sent, you remember him admitting that he was a watcher/tracker and that being my main thing against him, being a scum watcher. Which I don't think FEP ever mentioned. I also mentioned how Star could block either TG or Zubz. Here is FEP's reply after that post:
What I'd like to do is have Goddamn follow Zeke. If Zeke dies or TheGoddamn fails to tell us Zeke's target, lynched.

Star can do whatever she wants, maybe just block whoever she thinks might be the second killer.

Scum can fuck with this as they will, still seems pretty safe to me.
He doesn't mention anything about still thinking TG is scum or anything. Only saying that he will be lynched if he can't name my target. Which we know he could do since he was scum watcher. I post the following:
Thinking about it, TG could be a scum watcher, which would do nothing but confirm my power. Also if he is scum, which I believe he is, then he could just as easily lie and say a townie killed me.
He replies with:
That's why i don't want him watching anyone. He also claims to be a tracker. I want him to tell us your target, which we can confirm even if you die. He could be scum with all of his claimed powers, but doesn't hurt to test anyway.
So after that exchange of him wanting to prove TG's power for w/e reason, Star still blocks TG and saves gives us our first one night kill.

Before FEP tries to spin this as me going after him because he wanted to vote me I would like to mention I was talking about this before he even mentioned lynching me.
FEP was pushing heavy for TG to test his powers on me to prove he could use it.
---If zubz doesn't turn out to be mafia scum, that would reflect a bit back on FEP.

I assumed Star would block Zubz, if Zubz/TG were teammates, they probably assumed the same.
Thoughts on possible godfather (Just incase Zubz/MA doesnt yield both scum flips.): Was thinking Squidyj, but if there is a godfather, I can lean towards it being FEP as well. FEP's insistence of TG tracking me was odd in hindsight. FEP theory only holds up if Zubz isn't Mafia. Fep theory only works if he could communicate with TG to know he would carry out the kill.

============================================================
FEP's has mentioned playing "safe" several times. Doing this would be safest thing, lynching this would be the safest thing. So he seems to be very cautious.
Scum can fuck with this as they will, still seems pretty safe to me.
the safest worst case. I realize I didn't win many points with the Stanley lynch but, like this, it was a safe course of action.
My logic for you being the safest candidate i
Xam's evidence made Stanley a safer bet. and that's how I play
I thought Star would block Zubz tbh and with TG under suspicion the potential other scum would do the kill. With no way to know who the other would be, that seemed safest.

When I was first pointing out he could be godfather
Theory was you are mafia godfather and you pushed hard for TG to test his powers on me so you could buy time and give him an opportunity to get a kill in, instead of you.
For someone who is a godfather, that would be the safest plan. You don't want to risk someone like Star blocking you on a whim and there being no kill.

He replied with
This follows on my last post, but scum knowing TG was indeed a scum tracker/watcher and no reason to believe town has a tracker, why would a godfather with a green check be afraid of doing the kill? I would have wanted to do the kill myself if I was a scum godfather. I have been sparing with my votes and he was my first day 4. I built the first case on him. Why would I try and bus him and then immediately try and protect him?
I go
Idk, just incase things went unexpectedly. Playing patiently, not wanting to take any risks.
He hasn't responded to that post.

My theory hinges on the fact that FEP was doing the "test" to allow TG an opportunity to kill. This post from FEP prove's that he himself thought TG wouldn't be blocked either.
I thought Star would block Zubz tbh and with TG under suspicion the potential other scum would do the kill. With no way to know who the other would be, that seemed safest.
 
That's a lot to respond to on mobile, dude. It'll have to wait until I get off work if anyone else wants to bite on it. Him being scum watcher was irrelevant. He wouldn't have been able to name your target if he was scum watcher, that's why I wanted to focus on the tracking aspect. I can't go through it all right now but I'm pretty sure I said he was going to be the most likely vote regardless and the test wasn't at all about proving him town so much as just testing his claimed role while we went through with a safer lynch.

Yes, I said I would have voted other than Salva if I wasn't on the block. But I voted Salva and helped town to hit scum when it could have gone any way. Xam and CB were both all over the place and I could just as easily have voted Star but I thought her role was too important to risk. And I was right. When we have so few people up for debate who have actually participated in scum votes or who have had as many scum votes on them, it's strange you would want to dismiss it.

The facts are you are not cleared. If there are still two scum at large, there is about a 50% chance one is you. If it is you, town loses the game tomorrow if we ML today. There is a 1/6 chance I am a godfather. If I am, there is time to hit me after lynching you and MattAttack.

If you want to vote me then do it but if you truly believe that Star blocked kills N4 and N5 and that there are not multiple godfathers a vote on me is not in town's interest today. My point is relevant to today.
 
*HEAVY METAL PLAYS*
Hmm?
Oh that noise?
That's the sound of WINNERS.
...
On a more serious note, here's my "big revelation" about Zubz.
I forget the exact time (and I'm way too fucking tired to look for it) but there was a point where Zubz, albeit jokingly, referenced Dahlia Hawthorne in conjunction with MA. On its own, that isn't much, but when you combine it with the fact that Dahlia Hawthorne was actually in the game, it leads me to believe that neither Zubz nor MA are Mafia: there would be no merit AT ALL to joke about a name/role that you know exists in the game, and that role happens to be ON YOUR TEAM, in a public manner.
Also
Vote: SquidyJ
I am going to Stallone you
 
I don't know what the fuck else to tell you about the answer you're upset you didn't get. I disagree that is the cautious way for scum to play.

If I was scum godfather I would have done the NK. The odds of Star jailing TG were way higher than anyone doing anything to me. The safest scum plan would be for the godfather to do the kill. A town tracker would likely have countered TG. (Btdubs, I did bring up that TG was a watcher because part of my suspicion was that town already had a confirmed watcher and it was unlikely that we had two.) Since there was no counter, it would stand to reason that there was no town tackle meaning I could move without fear of detection and with less chance of being blocked than TG.

That would be the safest scum play in my opinion. Which is why I believe there may only be one killer left and it would be a neutral godfather. But I'm not convinced enough to want to risk lylo tomorrow. Our odds of hitting a godfather are, again, 1/6. Our odds of hitting a non-godfather are 1/2. And we know your power is dangerous if it is you.
 
Can't quote myself on mobile but this is the post saying I still suspected TG but felt Stanley was the better lynch.

I had the first case against TG and it holds up fine. Xam being ascetic just knocked it below Stanley. You'll notice I jumped on Stanley pretty quickly after but still expanded on TG in my reads list and after.

It's straight bullshit to try and take that away.
 
That's a lot to respond to on mobile, dude. It'll have to wait until I get off work if anyone else wants to bite on it. Him being scum watcher was irrelevant. He wouldn't have been able to name your target if he was scum watcher, that's why I wanted to focus on the tracking aspect. I can't go through it all right now but I'm pretty sure I said he was going to be the most likely vote regardless and the test wasn't at all about proving him town so much as just testing his claimed role while we went through with a safer lynch.
He admitted to being tracker/watcher, he never claimed one or the other, but both. My response to you shouldve been sayinghim guessing my vote doesn't do anything either.

Yes, I said I would have voted other than Salva if I wasn't on the block. But I voted Salva and helped town to hit scum when it could have gone any way. Xam and CB were both all over the place and I could just as easily have voted Star but I thought her role was too important to risk. And I was right. When we have so few people up for debate who have actually participated in scum votes or who have had as many scum votes on them, it's strange you would want to dismiss it.
You voting Salva out of desperation =/= You voted that way to save town. You had no other options since no one else was close to being lynched that day. That's like me putting a notch in my belt for lynching Kalor(if he flipped scum), when I had no other choice but to vote him if I wanted to see the next day.

The facts are you are not cleared. If there are still two scum at large, there is about a 50% chance one is you. If it is you, town loses the game tomorrow if we ML today. There is a 1/6 chance I am a godfather. If I am, there is time to hit me after lynching you and MattAttack.
The facts are, I don't need to be cleared. I think my posting/voting have spoken for me. I've outlined how it is impossible for me to be the neutral killer and how none of my actions can be said to help mafia.
c243031e2b2f361a177d7f550d99a524.png

Can you find a lie anywhere in there?

If you want to vote me then do it but if you truly believe that Star blocked kills N4 and N5 and that there are not multiple godfathers a vote on me is not in town's interest today. My point is relevant to today.
It's proven she blocked a kill N4. N5 is up in the air.

I don't know what the fuck else to tell you about the answer you're upset you didn't get. I disagree that is the cautious way for scum to play.
I had the first case against TG and it holds up fine. Xam being ascetic just knocked it below Stanley. You'll notice I jumped on Stanley pretty quickly after but still expanded on TG in my reads list and after. It's straight bullshit to try and take that away.
I'm not upset, I just simply pointed out you didnt bother to reply. You are the only the one that seems upset with your cussing.

I had the first case against TG and it holds up fine. Xam being ascetic just knocked it below Stanley. You'll notice I jumped on Stanley pretty quickly after but still expanded on TG in my reads list and after. It's straight bullshit to try and take that away.
If we are talking about an actual reads list, you didnt have one. Also what is "bullshit" is you saying all I did was copy you when I made my much stronger case against TG than you. Then you turn around and try to use your weak case against TG as a notch about you being town.

Going back over what you posted about TG after you unvoted:
Is this post where you are defending TG's highly questionable action to follow CB N3. This was mainly the smoking gun I used in my argument to prove TG was scum watcher/tracker.
cb61f7faf0cde4b85d93f179eabc08dd.png


Xam points out that it makes no sense for a town watcher/tracker to follow CB. You start to support TG again by painting it in a way that maybe CB was neutral. You just laughed off the part about xam saying TG is scum.
5b914f70a0d70515a68691b2026a9f07.png


Then you make this post requesting TG track me which is also asking Star not to block him.
Before things end, I would like to request TheGoddamn to track Ezekiel tonight. I would also like to request that no one vote tomorrow until TheGoddamn gives his results. Even if Ezekiel dies his steal goes through so we can verify TG either way.

In what could be my last post, I still try to tell you that his role doesnt matter, he is scum.
He can still be a watcher/tracker, just scum. So that would really change nothing. Keep that in mind if I die and he still gives the right result.

You use the reasoning of not believing he can track, which TG already admitted he can.
Again, it isn't about clearing him. We can't trust anything he tells us but if he can tell your target before anyone votes, we'll at least know there is a tracker of some alignment. His claimed actions were so convenient I'm not convinced he can track and if he can't tell us your target we can basically turbo him immediately.

If I was scum godfather I would have done the NK. The odds of Star jailing TG were way higher than anyone doing anything to me. The safest scum plan would be for the godfather to do the kill. A town tracker would likely have countered TG. (Btdubs, I did bring up that TG was a watcher because part of my suspicion was that town already had a confirmed watcher and it was unlikely that we had two.) Since there was no counter, it would stand to reason that there was no town tackle meaning I could move without fear of detection and with less chance of being blocked than TG.
As far as you were concerned, you thought there was a 0% chance of star jailing TG. You could've done it to be safe. There was no need to prove TG's role as tracker/watcher, yet you still argued against having him jailed. TG was on the chopping block mainly from my posts, so you could've easily just had him carry out the kill for safety, if nothing else.

That would be the safest scum play in my opinion. Which is why I believe there may only be one killer left and it would be a neutral godfather. But I'm not convinced enough to want to risk lylo tomorrow. Our odds of hitting a godfather are, again, 1/6. Our odds of hitting a non-godfather are 1/2. And we know your power is dangerous if it is you.
You haven't done one thing to prove I am mafia. All you have said is that it is safest to lynch me due to me causing a thing with the votes, which I addressed before you even mentioned lynching me. Not to go on the probable NK in MA who hasn't proven his role at all, but me?
 
I would like ppl to keep in mind FEP basically requested TG NOT be jailed on two different occasions when asking for him to track me. Not once, but twice. Keep in mind that at the time it was me/zubz/TG/MA that hadn't been checked by xams. Out of ALL of those ppl, TG was the most scummy at the time. But FEP still didn't want Star jailing him, to "test" if he could track.
 
You do need to be cleared. Your actions spoke pretty well for you up until you started writing a book about why we should be chasing a 1/6 chance godfather when you seem to believe there are two scum left. That is anti-town as shit unless we have a reason to be sure we are hitting that godfather. If there are two kills and we ML a godfather, we are in LYLO tomorrow. Tell me about how you chasing that option is pro-town?

And tracking CB N3 makes sense. CB was suspicious and I was correct that he was lying about his role. Whether you were town or scum, you should have been curious what he was up to. On the other hand, he was clearly lying about his N1 action.
 

RedFalco

Member
Possible scenarios for last night based on if there's 1 scum and 1 SK:
1.They both target StarSketch.
2. StarSketch roleblocked the potential SK and thus prevented one kill.
3. StarSketch protected a kill target.

Possible reason that they both target StarSketch is that both of them thought the other would target Xam(or someone else, but Xam seemed like the bigger target at this point, apart from StarSketch.)

If there's a Godfather role then it makes sense for Scum to target StarSketch first because Xam can/has already cleared them and their bigger obstacle to kill(assuming everyone from Town said the truth about their role) is her roleblock/protect role.

But it wouldn't make sense for the SK to target StarSketch before Xam. He has to kill Xam before Xam checks him and calls him out as not town. At last night's point he had a 1/3(Zubz, Matt Attack, and EzekelRAGE)chance of being checked by Xam. Unless for some reason SK can also prompt "town" on Xam's result but that sounds doubtful.(has there ever been a role that can do this?)

So, personally I'm leaning towards a roleblock from StarSketch. She knew she couldn't protect Xam directly(which again, was probably the bigger target to get rid of apart from herself but of course she can't protect herself) so the best way to protect him is to try to roleblock the SK.



We shouldn't turbo anymore, at least not with so much time left, and I really don't get why you turboed Ezekel, especially when a few posts up you had said you wouldn't do so. Turboing so fast doesn't let us talk and come up with theories.
It's (been) crunch time and I think we all need to come up with theories and in depth analyses of each other before the day ends. So that if I/you die and flip town we can see what you thought and why you thought it and that your reasoning wasn't because you were Scum but rather because you really felt that way about them. Plus that helps us see angles another person may have missed. Sometimes we get so caught with our own line of thought(look at Ezekel and FEP right now for example) that we forget or miss other angles. Plus it's been a long game and there's lots of info that one person may have forgotten but that another remembers. I planned on saying this yesterday but Neogaf was down and then there was the turbo. Perhaps we could've gotten an idea of who StarSketch was considering most suspicious and thus may have been her roleblock target. We could've also seen if she was leaning towards trying to roleblock or if she was planning on trying to directly protect someone. Now we'll never know.

Ezekel and FEP you guys are at each other's throats to the point that you guys don't even acknowledge the others. You're bringing lots of attention to yourselves, thanks to this I'm definitely looking at you guys closely.

Personally, as of now I'm not very fond of pursuing the Godfather angle today, regardless of who we decide to lynch as a potential Godfather. It's very risky because if we're wrong then we leave two unchecked people(Xam surviving tonight seems very unlikely without any blocking or protecting roles left) who may be the last remaining scum and serial killer and that would put us in a very perilous situation if they get 2 townies during the night phase.

That being said, I do find it very interesting that Squidy didn't make a single post after Scrafty said we should lynch him today. He posts at 3:14PM, 3:26PM, and 3:37PM and Scrafty posts at 3:45PM(all Pacific times) that we should lynch him and we don't hear a word from him at all for the rest of the day. He wasn't around for 8 more minutes after his post to see Scrafty's? Plus,(I know it's meta) he's posted in other threads on GAF after that so it's not like he went to sleep or something(4:38pm and 5:55pm Pacific), you can search it yourself to see that I'm saying the truth. He left the thread after that post and didn't come back into this thread at all for the rest of the day? Unlikely. So Squidy, what do you have to say for yourself?

Ezekel, what's your reasoning behind stealing Matt Attack's vote?
 
I don't mean to get at Zeke's throat. The thing seems pretty simple though. Assuming there are two scum, at least one of them is almost certainly unchecked. I'm not saying Zeke is scum, just that he is unchecked and we can't afford to for him to be scum.

Obviously I don't appreciate the smear campaign but it's honestly not personal. Saying things like "I don't need to be checked" and ignoring the danger to the town are red flags though. Although I guess he might be defensive considering I've voted as many scum as he has in half the time.

I am aware of everyone else's posts. I understand and share the concern about Squidy. But I hope everyone acknowledges the danger town is in. Worst case Zeke lynch gives town two days. Worst case anyone else can end the game tomorrow. Unless my numbers are off, that's what we're looking at. Am I mistaken?
 
If Squidy flips today we are likely at 3/5 lylo. If you lynch me the next day instead of either Zeke or MA, you've lost town the game. Seriously, look at the numbers I put up. Tell me what is anti-town about what I'm posting.

*if he flips town, i meant to say

Why have you been so keen on me, Xam? Just because of Stanley?
I personally think you're going to in on Zeke.
Also, we aren't going to be in lylo unless the neutral dies: Scum can't win, EVEN IF THEY HAVE MAJORITY OR EQUAL PLAYER COUNT, as long as the Neutral is still alive. Remember that.
 
I personally think you're going to in on Zeke.
Also, we aren't going to be in lylo unless the neutral dies: Scum can't win, EVEN IF THEY HAVE MAJORITY OR EQUAL PLAYER COUNT, as long as the Neutral is still alive. Remember that.

Only because of the stakes. And we have no proof there is a neutral, all the win conditions can be resolved without one.

Fair enough though, thanks for pointing that out. Still seems riskier than the alternative.
 
You do need to be cleared. Your actions spoke pretty well for you up until you started writing a book about why we should be chasing a 1/6 chance godfather when you seem to believe there are two scum left. That is anti-town as shit unless we have a reason to be sure we are hitting that godfather. If there are two kills and we ML a godfather, we are in LYLO tomorrow. Tell me about how you chasing that option is pro-town?
What? You are continuing to move the goal posts. First you wanted to lynch me because it was the safe bet. Now you want to lynch me because you say it was anti-town of me to say there where two godfathers, when on SEVERAL occasions I have posted otherwise. I stated a few times that I think MA is the NK. You are also lying when you said I am writing a book about there being two godfathers. The only thing I have written a book about is that possibilty of YOU being a godfather. Not there being two godfathers.
I said there were two godafthers IF MA is to be believed. I don't believe him. I think it's likely MA is NK and gf is Mafia. That would explain why MA would seem to have a good track record of hunting scum. It's because he hunt's scum in day and hunts town at night. That or an elaborate bus.
I think MA is the NK, since I refuse to believe we would have two godfathers in this game. I guess there is an option of the game having only 3 scum and one 1 neutral.
MA is Neutral Killer and Zubz is last of the remaining Mafia?

MA has no confirmation of his power other than the theory that Soriam wouldn't give Salva permanent roleblocks w/o a way to stop them(other than Salva's death). Also only speculation as to why Roy never said anything about possibly being cured of his blackmail status.

If we get rid of Zubz/MA and the game isn't over, probably worth looking at the godfather angle.

Thoughts on possible godfather (Just incase Zubz/MA doesnt yield both scum flips.): Was thinking Squidyj, but if there is a godfather, I can lean towards it being FEP as well. FEP's insistence of TG tracking me was odd in hindsight. FEP theory only holds up if Zubz isn't Mafia. Fep theory only works if he could communicate with TG to know he would carry out the kill.
FEP is LYING with this post.
And tracking CB N3 makes sense. CB was suspicious and I was correct that he was lying about his role. Whether you were town or scum, you should have been curious what he was up to. On the other hand, he was clearly lying about his N1 action.
CB never lied aobut his N1 actions or ANY of his actions. This post from SD confirms it.
On this note, I also received an item last night. I'm not going to reveal what it is in case I need to use it to test something later (it's not the calling card is all I'll say), but I figure I should share since you did as well.

Keep in mind that CB made a big deal out of his items D3, so ONLY scum trackers/watcher would want to know where he was going, to kill whoever he may have given the override to. Which TG did and killed Roy. The only ppl who were curious about the receiver of CB's gift were scum. CB only lied about the power of his items, which bought him and town time in the long run.
==========================================================
I'm not saying Zeke is scum, just that he is unchecked and we can't afford to for him to be scum.
Thanks for not callin me sc.....
That is anti-town as shit unless we have a reason to be sure we are hitting that godfather. If there are two kills and we ML a godfather, we are in LYLO tomorrow. Tell me about how you chasing that option is pro-town?
NVM. you are calling me scum.

Obviously I don't appreciate the smear campaign but it's honestly not personal. Saying things like "I don't need to be checked" and ignoring the danger to the town are red flags though. Although I guess he might be defensive considering I've voted as many scum as he has in half the time.
Here he is again, bragging about hitting scum and trying to use it against me? Again he only voted scum twice. 1 occasion was to live the next day, the other was after Xam had a red check. Still refuses to admit nothing I have done is scummy. Just spread lies about CB.

*if he flips town, i meant to say
Why have you been so keen on me, Xam? Just because of Stanley?
Start's to discredit Xam's suspicions of him by mentioning it's just because of the Stanley lynch.
==============================================================
Ezekel and FEP you guys are at each other's throats to the point that you guys don't even acknowledge the others. You're bringing lots of attention to yourselves, thanks to this I'm definitely looking at you guys closely.
I have acknowledged others(MA at least). I feel it isn't necessary to look at a potential GF angle w/o first lynching MA. Then we would know for certain if there is a Godfather or not. While you are looking at us closely, note that FEP is dodgy.

Personally, as of now I'm not very fond of pursuing the Godfather angle today, regardless of who we decide to lynch as a potential Godfather. It's very risky because if we're wrong then we leave two unchecked people(Xam surviving tonight seems very unlikely without any blocking or protecting roles left) who may be the last remaining scum and serial killer and that would put us in a very perilous situation if they get 2 townies during the night phase.
See my post above.

Ezekel, what's your reasoning behind stealing Matt Attack's vote?
Going into the last night phase. Only candidates were me/MA/Zubz. I assumed there were 2 scum left. W/o even thinking there was a possibility there was a godfather. As I posted earlier in my response to FEP, I felt/feel MA is the NK, so took his vote. Didn't take Zubz's vote because I figured he would be on the chopping block today. So wanted to take the vote of another person I thought to be scum so they can't mess with the votes or anything.

While on Matt:
On a more serious note, here's my "big revelation" about Zubz.
I forget the exact time (and I'm way too fucking tired to look for it) but there was a point where Zubz, albeit jokingly, referenced Dahlia Hawthorne in conjunction with MA. On its own, that isn't much, but when you combine it with the fact that Dahlia Hawthorne was actually in the game, it leads me to believe that neither Zubz nor MA are Mafia:
This doesn't mean MA couldn't be serial killer. I thought I had a post this day phase that said Matt has such a stellar record of hunting scum because of the possibility he is the SK. Scum hunting in the day time, killing town at night.
 
Meant GD led about his n1, not CB. That is what I called him out on. Saw that was poorly expressed earlier, should have clarified. Obviously not CB, that action has been confirmed forever.
 
I'll try to keep this brief. Feeling weary of hitting the horse but this is an important one and we've not heard much from other corners.

What? You are continuing to move the goal posts. First you wanted to lynch me because it was the safe bet. Now you want to lynch me because you say it was anti-town of me to say there where two godfathers, when on SEVERAL occasions I have posted otherwise. I stated a few times that I think MA is the NK. You are also lying when you said I am writing a book about there being two godfathers. The only thing I have written a book about is that possibilty of YOU being a godfather. Not there being two godfathers.
Nah, it is the safe bet. You are still the only safe bet and that is how I've made all my decisions. You may remember ranting about this earlier. I never said it was anti-town to say there are two godfathers and that is not now and never had been my justification for my vote. I said it is anti-town to spend so much time on godfathers today (1/6 chance hit) if you believe there are two scum in the game. I think we're agreed both scum are unlikely to be godfathers, leaving the non-godfather scum at 1/2.

FEP is LYING with this post.

CB never lied aobut his N1 actions or ANY of his actions. This post from SD confirms it.


Keep in mind that CB made a big deal out of his items D3, so ONLY scum trackers/watcher would want to know where he was going, to kill whoever he may have given the override to. Which TG did and killed Roy. The only ppl who were curious about the receiver of CB's gift were scum. CB only lied about the power of his items, which bought him and town time in the long run.
As noted above, the "he" was meant to refer to TheGoddamn. He was lying about his N1 in his claim. Much more suspicious than pondering over whether it is town or not to follow CB. We've known since D2 CB had items to pass out. I maintain it was in any trackers interest to know where they were going, especially when it was possible to see he was lying before his flip and him only being able to confirm one action.

==========================================================

Thanks for not callin me sc.....

NVM. you are calling me scum.
I wasn't, but do feel free to explain what is so pro-town about you using all of your energy chasing a godfather today when we all believe there is a surer target? But since you bring it up, your behavior today does make me think you could be. I think you realize exactly how safe of a lynch you are (literally the safest) and are trying to throw shit around and discredit me so no one else realizes it. You're thinking of yourself, not the town. My defense against lynching me today is easy, same as why I'm not voting Squidy or any other godfather. Not in the town's best intereNot Not when we have a possible sure hit within two days chasing unchecked.

Here he is again, bragging about hitting scum and trying to use it against me? Again he only voted scum twice. 1 occasion was to live the next day, the other was after Xam had a red check. Still refuses to admit nothing I have done is scummy. Just spread lies about CB.
I have hit 2 scum in three days. That is as many as most other players in 5, yourself included. You agree that my miss was safe and, as much as you try to discredit it, can't deny that I was the first to question and vote TG even on my ML day. If I'm scum, it means I got into the game and just started bussing my entire team.

A lot of what you have done today is scummy. I've got no grudge. I've said this a lot of times: The safest lynch today is you. We literally can't afford for you to be scum and you can't prove you aren't or that anyone else is.

Start's to discredit Xam's suspicions of him by mentioning it's just because of the Stanley lynch.
Nah, just asking. He's been on my ass for longer than you have. Told everyone to be wary of me if Stanley flipped town a few days ago. Jumped on my ass hard the day after, yelling at me to vote TG.

==============================================================

I have acknowledged others(MA at least). I feel it isn't necessary to look at a potential GF angle w/o first lynching MA. Then we would know for certain if there is a Godfather or not. While you are looking at us closely, note that FEP is dodgy.
Lol. If only everyone was dodgy enough to think about what is the best way to keep town in the game as long as possible. You're spending a lot of time on the godfather angle today for it not being necessary. I'm spending my time on you because we can't afford not to.


See my post above.


Going into the last night phase. Only candidates were me/MA/Zubz. I assumed there were 2 scum left. W/o even thinking there was a possibility there was a godfather. As I posted earlier in my response to FEP, I felt/feel MA is the NK, so took his vote. Didn't take Zubz's vote because I figured he would be on the chopping block today. So wanted to take the vote of another person I thought to be scum so they can't mess with the votes or anything.

While on Matt:

This doesn't mean MA couldn't be serial killer. I thought I had a post this day phase that said Matt has such a stellar record of hunting scum because of the possibility he is the SK. Scum hunting in the day time, killing town at night.
Since when is 2 scum votes a stellar record? Tied with me.

Again he only voted scum twice.
 
In my opinion, the two most viable lynch candidates town should consider for today are myself and Ezekel. Ideally, I'd like to convince you that the lynch you're looking for is Ezekel, because while mislynching me would likely elucidate quite a bit, it would still be a mislynch.

Let's cover some logic from my perspective. I believe that the gist of this has already been discussed but I'd like to go ahead and put out my version. First, whether you believe these to be true or not, I'd like you all to operate under the following two assumptions for the duration of this post. Assumption #1 is that I am Mia Fey, the town-aligned Blackmail remover. Assumption #2 is that our mysterious Godfather is scum aligned. This last assumption is not much of a stretch, but it is critical to keep in mind when we look at the remaining player list.

Matt Attack - Town Blackmail Remover (Remember, play along for now)
ScraftyDevil - Town Innocent Child
Xamtheking - Town Ascetic Cop
RedFalco - Green check
squidyj - Green check
flatearthpandas- Green check
Zubz - Green check
EzekelRAGE - No check

As you can see, from my perspective, Ezekel literally has to be a neutral. Everybody who received a green check from Xam cannot be a neutral, as receiving a green check means they have the potential to be a godfather. These qualities are mutually exclusive. For the benefit of everybody who isn't me, consider our claimed abilities- which one do you believe is more likely to be associated with town? The one that cures a potentially permanent otherwise role block? Or the one that steals a vote from another player, more likely than not a townie when you consider the numbers (admittedly, going off of the mafiascum wiki this power can also be associated with town)? I'd wager it's Ezekel's ability that has more of an opportunity to be that of a neutral player- an abilitity that he has already admitted to lying about once (that is, he lied about being forced to use it each night.) Oh, and I would love to see an argument for how Salva's ability would be balanced without the existence of my own. The circumstances surrounding QB/Salva's lynch could not have been predicted by anyone, least of all Sorian. In the hands of an either skilled or lucky (or both) player who was not replaced, the Shelly DeKiller ability would have had the potential to be nightmarish for town, especially with the fact that the role was able to select not one, but two targets on the first night (with Scrafty being confirmed to not have an active power role and the identity of the scum team known to Shelly, the potential list of players for the role to target was considerably lessened from the default player list- and the number of viable targets would only shrink with each passing night, due to to lynches, multiple night kills and role claims.) Just because I have not been cleared by Xam does not mean that we cannot accept that my role has a high likelihood of being exactly as I've described it. Also, if I were neutral, don't you think my actions in regards to Zubz would seem very strange? What would I have to gain by impulsively fake role claiming the moment he claimed ordinary town if I had no way of knowing if he was telling the truth or not? Would I have continually doubled down on the fact that I have not used my power these past couple of nights if I had no way of knowing that TGD was not actually a town watcher/tracker but a scum one? There are far too many variables here that make no sense if I'm a neutral role.

Now things get tricky. My power removes the blackmail status. Ezekel has been confirmed to steal votes. Based upon the numbers, the two of us are the only ones who could possibly be neutrals at this point, as far as I can tell. And yet, as Ezekel himself pointed out earlier, there were two night kills on a night where he was roleblocked by StarSketch. In other words, our second killer cannot be neutral. Whether they're town or scum, I can't say. And I also don't know what implications this could have. If either Ezekel or myself is lynched today, town will have to face this truth (as if I am lynched town will see that Ezekel must be lying, and if he is lynched this will be directly revealed) The fact is though, this scenario makes zero sense to me. Town has already had a vigilante, and they are already dead. And scum having two kills every night? That very challenging for me to believe, although Ezekel has posited the possibility of them having a second killer- is there precedent for this? Regardless, I am confident in saying that as this scenario stands, our second killer cannot be a neutral player.

Where does this leave us? One path is to consider eliminating the assumption that our neutral can't be a godfather (or rather, that they will not investigate as "Town" to Xam.) This would widen the pool of potential neutrals considerably. Alternatively, we can consider that either town or scum (as Ezekel has brought up as a possiblity) has another killing role beyond what we have assumed.

In any case, my vote has already been stolen by Ezekel, so my fate is ultimately in town's hands today. At the very least, I can say with confidence that Ezekel has lied- he cannot be town. If he's neutral (which would be the case if both of my earlier assumptions hold water), then he does not have the ability to kill. If he's scum, then he can kill, but it isn't likely to explain our second night kills. Whether we lynch me or Ezekel, we will arrive closer to the truth, but I implore you to believe in me, my power and my play and go after him today, skipping over the mislynch. This will eliminate somebody who has lied from the game, hopefully elucidating some of what's been going on, leaving us with a smaller pool of players to suspect tomorrow (once you factor in any night kill(s).) While we could go after a godfather today, I feel like that might be a little too much of a shot in the dark. The existence of two of them could exist as a counter to there being two cops, but it still seems somewhat unlikely to me.
 
This is going to be just random spitballing, nothing solid here. But a far-fetched case for how Zeke could theoretically be a neutral killer. It is not at all necessary to my argument for his lynch today so please don't take it as such.

But let's pretend our vig did not go two days without acting. That means either day 1 or day 2 there might have been a vig kill. Yet we haven't seen more than 2 kills and have seen 2 kills 3/5 nights. I thought of this back on day 3, speculating on shelley, but it could be a delayed reaction kill. Now, Salva's PM mentioned there being a client. Let's say this client can tell the scum team a target at night and the following night the scum team is granted an extra kill to take out that target. The game looks like this.

N1: Scum kill, vig kill. Neutral phones in a target.
N2. Scum kill, extra scum kill, neutral phones in.
N3: Scum kill, extra scum kill, neutral doesn't phone in (zeke blocked)
N4: Scum kill, no extra target, neutral phones in.
N5: Scum kill, extra kill, neutral phones in. One kill blocked by Star.

Just throwing it out there. Of course a more likely possibility is that someone just tried to kill Scrafty N1 or 2 and Star blocked them.

I think this client thing is important though. Sorian even said the client was a special role. I see no indication that whatever relationship there was would have to terminate with Salva. It makes more sense to me that the client is the godfather, but something to chew over.

What's important to note is that it is possible the client could have been blocked as the kills temporarily stopped. There are a lot of possible things that could have happened, this is just one of them. Also, if the client is not an actual killing role but instead enabling extra kills for scum... they can win together. Makes sense since scum knows the client's identity. Why town needs to get rid of all non-town but mafia needs to hit killing roles (bowlie). Would prevent overlap. If Scum could choose not to act, would explain no accidental scum kills.

Known Star blocks:
N1: Scrafty
N2: Scrafty
N3: Zeke
N4: TG
N5: ???
 

squidyj

Member
*HEAVY METAL PLAYS*
Hmm?
Oh that noise?
That's the sound of WINNERS.
...
On a more serious note, here's my "big revelation" about Zubz.
I forget the exact time (and I'm way too fucking tired to look for it) but there was a point where Zubz, albeit jokingly, referenced Dahlia Hawthorne in conjunction with MA. On its own, that isn't much, but when you combine it with the fact that Dahlia Hawthorne was actually in the game, it leads me to believe that neither Zubz nor MA are Mafia: there would be no merit AT ALL to joke about a name/role that you know exists in the game, and that role happens to be ON YOUR TEAM, in a public manner.
Also
Vote: SquidyJ
I am going to Stallone you

thats a dumb conclusion and you are dumb, just like stallone.
Listen, you all can lynch me, you and scrafty seem convinced I'm a godfather, fine, whatever, I'm honestly sort of mentally checked out playing The Division right now. but you're still going to need to line up 2 actual killers to lynch after I'm gone so I suggest you think about what you're going to do when I flip town. Who does that leave?
 
As you can see, from my perspective, Ezekel literally has to be a neutral.
Which one do you believe is more likely to be associated with town? The one that cures a potentially permanent otherwise role block? Or the one that steals a vote from another player, more likely than not a townie when you consider the numbers (admittedly, going off of the mafiascum wiki this power can also be associated with town)? I'd wager it's Ezekel's ability that has more of an opportunity to be that of a neutral player- an abilitity that he has already admitted to lying about once (that is, he lied about being forced to use it each night.)

Yes, I lied once, and that was my only lie. That also goes back to what I said about stanley. CB lied about his role, xam lied/omitted something from his role.
Oh, and I would love to see an argument for how Salva's ability would be balanced without the existence of my own. The circumstances surrounding QB/Salva's lynch could not have been predicted by anyone, least of all Sorian. In the hands of an either skilled or lucky (or both) player who was not replaced, the Shelly DeKiller ability would have had the potential to be nightmarish for town, especially with the fact that the role was able to select not one, but two targets on the first night (with Scrafty being confirmed to not have an active power role and the identity of the scum team known to Shelly, the potential list of players for the role to target was considerably lessened from the default player list- and the number of viable targets would only shrink with each passing night, due to to lynches, multiple night kills and role claims.) Just because I have not been cleared by Xam does not mean that we cannot accept that my role has a high likelihood of being exactly as I've described it. Also, if I were neutral, don't you think my actions in regards to Zubz would seem very strange? What would I have to gain by impulsively fake role claiming the moment he claimed ordinary town if I had no way of knowing if he was telling the truth or not? Would I have continually doubled down on the fact that I have not used my power these past couple of nights if I had no way of knowing that TGD was not actually a town watcher/tracker but a scum one? There are far too many variables here that make no sense if I'm a neutral role.

Trying to guess Sorian's reason for what he does in the game won't help us really. You using that as your only defense shows how weak your case is. TG wasn't cleared by xam either and his role/actions couldve went just like he planned. But I didn't fall for it. Also TG started breadcrumbing Missile the first day phase, proving scum mafia had a fake role. It's likely the scum neutral killer was given a fake role as well. Which allowed you go fakeclaim Mia, Mya or whichever one you got "missed up" on. You knew no one else would claim it. I don't know why you are going that route.

Now things get tricky. My power removes the blackmail status. Ezekel has been confirmed to steal votes. Based upon the numbers, the two of us are the only ones who could possibly be neutrals at this point, as far as I can tell. And yet, as Ezekel himself pointed out earlier, there were two night kills on a night where he was roleblocked by StarSketch. In other words, our second killer cannot be neutral. Whether they're town or scum, I can't say.
No proof you do what you say you do. You speculated as to why Roy wouldn't announce that you removed his blackmail card, but Roy was a top town player and wouldve announced his card was removed to at least give town more information.

In any case, my vote has already been stolen by Ezekel, so my fate is ultimately in town's hands today. At the very least, I can say with confidence that Ezekel has lied- he cannot be town. If he's neutral (which would be the case if both of my earlier assumptions hold water), then he does not have the ability to kill. If he's scum, then he can kill, but it isn't likely to explain our second night kills. Whether we lynch me or Ezekel, we will arrive closer to the truth, but I implore you to believe in me, my power and my play and go after him today, skipping over the mislynch. This will eliminate somebody who has lied from the game, hopefully elucidating some of what's been going on, leaving us with a smaller pool of players to suspect tomorrow (once you factor in any night kill(s).) While we could go after a godfather today, I feel like that might be a little too much of a shot in the dark. The existence of two of them could exist as a counter to there being two cops, but it still seems somewhat unlikely to me.
I've already proven why I can't be the neutral killer.
Me being Neutral w/o killing ability - What would be my win condition exactly?
I've also proven that I can't be scum thru my voting and posting.
I have stated on several occasions how you could be neutral killer, and you have not addressed that in any part of your post. Your only defense to not proving your role has been "Guys no way Sorian would put a permanent roleblock w/o a way to get rid of it". Wasn't this one of the higher rated Mafia games this season? Either way, no telling how Sorian put this game together, especially if mafia has the ability to kill 1 person each night. I can see Sorian putting a perma roleblock in place to give scum a little bit of power.

I agree with you that it should be me or you lynched today, and it should be you.

I would like to bring up RF's case against MA
Then there's the fact that he says he possessed Roy to cure his blackmail. Roy was blackmailed N1. States he was blackmailed D2 so then theoretically N2 Matt Attack should've possessed him. D3 Roy is still alive and doesn't comment that he's no longer blackmailed. (I've looked through all D3 quickly and never see Roy say it[he would've most likely said it as soon as the day began](could someone go over them too so as to verify?), plus why would he hide it? he was town and had already put out that he was blackmailed).

But then I thought about it some more. "But what if Roy had been a PR?" how would he know that he's now allowed to use his PR again? He would've had to receive some sort of confirmation to know.

Some could say, "but Roy was Vanilla, he had no action and thus had no need for a confirmation that he could use his PR again". I don't think Sorian would be biased like that and only send out confirmations to those with PRs. Plus if only those with PRs would receive confirmation of no longer being blackmailed then by that reasoning only PRs should receive confirmation that they're blackmailed. Roy received a blackmail card even though he was vanilla.

Plus now Roy is dead and has no way to say that he was cleared from the blackmail or not, also convenient.

oh, and smaller(maybe meta) detail: Matt Attack just recently flubbed between the names Maya and Mia.
This is MA's reply to him
I want you to to think about Salva's power- he was a scum had the ability to permanently role block anybody he visited (at least until his own death.) Furthermore, he was given two shots on the first night to use his power. Do you really think it's likely that there isn't a role built into the game to counter this? Because from my perspective, it sounds like it would be awfully overpowered otherwise.

Of course, you have no guarantee that Sorian built the game with this in mind beyond my own word. But that doesn't mean that we can't think about how feasible my role is, and I believe it is more than reasonable to believe that I'm telling the truth.

Again, to prove his power he says that Sorian wouldnt give Mafia perma roleblock, too powerful. Which again, is a weak excuse for your power. Given the fact that Xam automatically blocks all non killing abilities, the argument for MA being a blackmail remover is weaker as well.
========

**********THIS IS THE DAMNING PART ABOUT MA BEING SERIAL KILLER. HIS REASON FOR ROY NEVER MENTIONING THE CARD BEING REMOVED.***********
Take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt, because it's pure speculation. I've been working under the assumption that Roy must have received some indication that he was no longer blackmailed, because regardless of the fact that he was ordinary, he received the calling card in the first place. Roy must have known that he was cured. So why wouldn't he have revealed this fact to town?

We can only guess as to the reason, but I've got a pretty good theory. Salva's role does not indicate the existence of my role, so the scum players should have no clue (beyond speculation of the existence of a counter role at least) that their blackmail can be cured without Salva's death. Roy chose to use his knowledge of the role to his advantage in two ways. The first is that despite being cured, scum would not realize this. This put them at an informational disadvantage, and in a game where scum players usually have the most knowledge, this can be extremely valuable. The second reason is that his knowledge of the existence of my role would allow for him to corroborate me. If I were to have claimed D3, Roy could have backed me up. Keeping these two reasons in mind, we have arrived at a sufficient explanation (in my eyes at least) for Roy's actions in regards to my possession.

His main theory about Roy not providing town with the information that his card was removed relies on TWO things
1. Roy wanted to cover for the person who removed the blackmail card.
2. Roy knew Salva's role.

Lets tackle 1 first.
The second reason is that his knowledge of the existence of my role would allow for him to corroborate me.
Roy didnt even know what the blackmail meant so there is no way he could assume it was removed by a person and kept that information secret to protect them. He couldve easily assumed it could be removed after a certain amount of time.
I got a PM saying I got blackmailed. The perpetrator left a calling card. Don't know if I should share the calling card or keep it to myself to test future claims.
We really have no idea what the blackmail thingy actually does.
tumblr_n44sduowqy1rpby98o5_250.gif

2, He specifically says that Roy used his knowledge of Salva's role and that's how Roy knew to be quiet about the card being removed.
We can only guess as to the reason, but I've got a pretty good theory. Salva's role does not indicate the existence of my role, so the scum players should have no clue (beyond speculation of the existence of a counter role at least) that their blackmail can be cured without Salva's death. Roy chose to use his knowledge of the role to his advantage in two ways

What's wrong with that you ask? Roy had NO WAY of knowing what Salva's role was and what the blackmail does, because Roy died the night following Salva's role reveal/death. So how would he know to not mention the card being removed to save MA? He wouldn't. Which is way I believe his card was never removed. MA probably killed Roy to help solidify his fake roleclaim. it seems he wasted no time roleclaiming the day after Roy was dead. Conviently when Roy couldn't confirm anything. He also didn't bother to breadcrumb anything on Day 2 either. Even CB breadcrumbed giving the burger to SD.

Vote: Matt Attack
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Will work on the continuing back and forth between me and FEP in another post, later. These giant posts are exhausting. My response to matt took like an hour to gather going back over stuff.
 
thats a dumb conclusion and you are dumb, just like stallone.
Listen, you all can lynch me, you and scrafty seem convinced I'm a godfather, fine, whatever, I'm honestly sort of mentally checked out playing The Division right now. but you're still going to need to line up 2 actual killers to lynch after I'm gone so I suggest you think about what you're going to do when I flip town. Who does that leave?
Squidy, I am also in the grip of The Division, as you are well aware. I am still here, though.
If you do not care just turbo yourself like a certain other someones
 
SD/Xam can we go on Matt today? SJ has rubbed me the rub way as well, but I think the case against MA is stronger atm. Also slight chance that there are no godfathers with only a neutral killer left, that being matt.
 
SD/Xam can we go on Matt today? SJ has rubbed me the rub way as well, but I think the case against MA is stronger atm. Also slight chance that there are no godfathers with only a neutral killer left, that being matt.
You do realize that if Matt flips Town, you are probably going to get lynched the next day, right?
I may or may not change my vote near Day End, depending on what happens.
 
You do realize that if Matt flips Town, you are probably going to get lynched the next day, right?
I may or may not change my vote near Day End, depending on what happens.

If I get lynched the next day, we have already lost. Also it makes the most sense to lynch me or MA today. Since it could save use a kill if MA is indeed to NK.
 
If I get lynched the next day, we have already lost. Also it makes the most sense to lynch me or MA today. Since it could save use a kill if MA is indeed to NK.
Are you 100% positive you want to go through with this
The flip of MA might decide whether we win or lose at this late in the game
True, I tunneled on Star beforehand, but I did back off eventually.
 
Are you 100% positive you want to go through with this
The flip of MA might decide whether we win or lose at this late in the game
True, I tunneled on Star beforehand, but I did back off eventually.

Yes I am. If MA is town or scum, then there should be only 1 kill tonight. That means we only have one killer and we wouldn't lose this late in the game. We would have like a day or two left to find the GF. MA makes the most sense to just prove there isn't two killers, one neutral and one mafia. There is a chance Star blocked MA last night.

Also, it seems Me vs MA is already the thing for some ppl anyway.
Redfalco has already stated he doesnt want to go godfather hunting today. So he is most likely voting between me and MA. Squidy won't vote for himself. FEP seems deadset on me, and I think it should be between me and MA today as well. So either way, SJ is not getting lynched.
 
I've already proven why I can't be the neutral killer.
Me being Neutral w/o killing ability - What would be my win condition exactly?
I've also proven that I can't be scum thru my voting and posting.
Neutral client. Phone in kills to mafia and grant them an extra kill. Could explain why kills stopped the day after you were blocked and it allows the neutral to win with scum and not town. All guesswork detailed earlier. The important part being that, no, you haven't proven anything. You can be scum. You can be a neutral.
Will work on the continuing back and forth between me and FEP in another post, later. These giant posts are exhausting. My response to matt took like an hour to gather going back over stuff.
Don't bother, sounds like we're in agreement.
If I get lynched the next day, we have already lost. Also it makes the most sense to lynch me or MA today. Since it could save use a kill if MA is indeed to NK.


You do realize that if Matt flips Town, you are probably going to get lynched the next day, right?
I may or may not change my vote near Day End, depending on what happens.
If Matt flips town, it means we've already lost in all likelihood. Two kills and we're at 3 town/2 scum. Zeke steals a vote from a clear town, e.g. Scrafty, and scum has 50%.

Xam, I know you don't trust me. Scrafty, I'm not sure where you're at. Falco, Squid, Zubz, I think you can get on board.

We seem in pretty universal agreement we need to look at Zeke and MA. We know for a fact Zeke can fuck up our day if he's the scum. If he's clean and there are two kills, we can get Matt the next day. There's a good chance we flat out can't get Zeke the next day if Matt flips town.
 
I am not budging from this position. Squidy has never had a final vote on one of our three confirmed villains, and there's no way I'm buying that that's a coincidence.

VOTE: squidyj
 
Yes I am. If MA is town or scum, then there should be only 1 kill tonight. That means we only have one killer and we wouldn't lose this late in the game. We would have like a day or two left to find the GF. MA makes the most sense to just prove there isn't two killers, one neutral and one mafia. There is a chance Star blocked MA last night.

Also, it seems Me vs MA is already the thing for some ppl anyway.
Redfalco has already stated he doesnt want to go godfather hunting today. So he is most likely voting between me and MA. Squidy won't vote for himself. FEP seems deadset on me, and I think it should be between me and MA today as well. So either way, SJ is not getting lynched.
Why do you think there would only be 1 kill tonight if MA flips town?
Couldn't Star have jailed the scum or neutral last night and prevented 1 of the 2 kills?
 
Neutral client. Phone in kills to mafia and grant them an extra kill. Could explain why kills stopped the day after you were blocked and it allows the neutral to win with scum and not town. All guesswork detailed earlier. The important part being that, no, you haven't proven anything. You can be scum. You can be a neutral.
The whole theory about delayed kills belong in it's own tales from my ass thread.

You are the one that hasn't proven anything.

We seem in pretty universal agreement we need to look at Zeke and MA. We know for a fact Zeke can fuck up our day if he's the scum. If he's clean and there are two kills, we can get Matt the next day. There's a good chance we flat out can't get Zeke the next day if Matt flips town.
You have done NOTHING to prove I am scum. Just conveniently glossed over any arguments about it. You havent even entertained the idea that MA is the serial killer. It's like you want a possible serial killer to go free in hopes he can hope a scum godfather(you), take out more town.
 
Why do you think there would only be 1 kill tonight if MA flips town?
Couldn't Star have jailed the scum or neutral last night and prevented 1 of the 2 kills?

My theory is star blocked MA or FEP, while the other killed Star.

If MA is town, then the killer would have to be a godfather. And Star didn't block a kill last night.

If there are two kills tonight, that would mean star did block a kill last night and it wouldve have to be between FEP or Zubz if MA is town. I proved she didn't block me last night when there was a possible kill blocked.
 
The whole theory about delayed kills belong in it's own tales from my ass thread.

You are the one that hasn't proven anything.


You have done NOTHING to prove I am scum. Just conveniently glossed over any arguments about it. You havent even entertained the idea that MA is the serial killer. It's like you want a possible serial killer to go free in hopes he can hope a scum godfather(you), take out more town.

All I need to prove is that there is 50% chance you are scum and it is more dangerous to town if we mislynch MattAttack than if we mislynch you. You can not prove that you are town. These are the only relevant facts. You could be town and MA could be the SK. If that's the case, the town can survive the ML. If you are the scum, we can easily not survive the mistake.

Scrafty, I implore you to reconsider. The worst thing we can do is vote a green check today. Odds are any one of us will flip town and that leaves us no clear movement the following day.
 
Also, if the vote goes through on Matt and he's scum, turbo me the next day. We'll likely be at 5/1 and while it won't be ideal, we'll be able to afford a ML on me. I'll prepare a read list and a case for the last scum during night phase to post before my turbo.

But I hope everyone makes the right choice today. It is a huge risk not to go Zeke. Unfortunately, if we hit Zeke and he's green we won't be able to afford a turbo on me after we get MA so the same offer doesn't apply (not that I could stop its execution).
 
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