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[bender]

Disc drive is not needed or you can use the one you had for decades and there are 4 stands.

As Confucius was fond of saying, "if you have four stands, you have none."

 

[Bojji]

And it doesn't even come with a disc drive or stand!

Oh wait, nevermind. Just 6X the cost of a PS5 Pro....tee hee.

You pay few times the price for few times more power.

At the same time, why pay 800 Euro for PS5 Pro when for almost half the price you have PS5 DE that has like ~70% of Pro power?

PCs like this were always ridiculously priced - same is true for xx90 cards. "Normal" PC gamers will buy GPUs with best price/performance ratios.

 

[Three]

Those are entire PC builds for those prices, not just the GPUs

No shit but even assuming the rest of the PC at €3000 it has a pricetag of €6000 ffs

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

You pay few times the price for few times more power.

At the same time, why pay 800 Euro for PS5 Pro when for almost half the price you have PS5 DE that has like ~70% of Pro power?

PCs like this were always ridiculously priced - same is true for xx90 cards. "Normal" PC gamers will buy GPUs with best price/performance ratios.

The value proposition for PS5 will always be better than for PS5 Pro which will always be better than PC rigs. It's all relative. But PS5 Pro for 70% of the the power of a high end gaming rig (in effect, because no rig is going to utilize it's theoretical power due to developers NOT making games for it) sounds like an absolute steal

 

[Darkkahn]

That's dirt cheap!

 

[Gaiff]

The value proposition for PS5 will always be better than for PS5 Pro which will always be better than PC rigs. It's all relative. But PS5 Pro for 70% of the the power of a high end gaming rig (in effect, because no rig is going to utilize it's theoretical power due to developers NOT making games for it) sounds like an absolute steal

You see games like Alan Wake 2 dropping to 864p on the Pro and yet here you are saying developers don’t make games for high-end PCs?

For the record, I agree that the prices in the OP are out of whack, but high-end PCs definitely have their work cut out for them with all the new graphical features that have been introduced this generation.

 

[StereoVsn]

Most people go on holiday every year and that's what 2k?

There's money in first world countries. Like fuck it some of you people should track on how much you're spending at Subways, Starbucks and McDonald's. Probably buy a 5090.

Of course there is money, but it doesn’t mean folks want to spend it. I would rather spend 5x on my vacation vs spending that much money on the 5090.

 

[Bojji]

The value proposition for PS5 will always be better than for PS5 Pro which will always be better than PC rigs. It's all relative. But PS5 Pro for 70% of the the power of a high end gaming rig (in effect, because no rig is going to utilize it's theoretical power due to developers NOT making games for it) sounds like an absolute steal

70% of power of what? 4070? That's not high end GPU.

PS5 Pro value is poor compared to PS5 and XSX when it comes to price/performance.

It was simulated many times but you can have that full PC with 4070 for less than 1000 Euros. It will be faster in every aspect.

And you can always use more power - better FPS, resolution, RT, settings or... ALL of it. You don't have to wait for developers mercy to patch your games (sometimes with shitty effects).

 

[AgatonSax]

Thanks Sony.

 

[Buggy Loop]

My wallet/body is not ready

 

[Gaiff]

70% of power of what? 4070? That's not high end GPU.

4070 Ti.

 

[Hohenheim]

People with 4K 240Hz will be happy for sure.

This is probably the #1 reason for my excitement for the 5090.
To be able to get the most out of my new 4k 240hz OLED monitor.

 

[rodrigolfp]

The value proposition for PS5 will always be better than for PS5 Pro which will always be better than PC rigs

Maybe in a dimension that gaming is only about "power".

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

You see games like Alan Wake 2 dropping to 864p on the Pro and yet here you are saying developers don’t make games for high-end PCs?

Not exclusively no. AW2 would look a lot better if all they had to target was a 4090

 

[Gaiff]

Not exclusively no. AW2 would look a lot better if all they had to target was a 4090

The target for max settings is a 4090, so what are you saying here? Games scale up and down and considering the little 3070 beats the brakes off the PS5 by 50% and even outperforms the Pro by around 10%, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the visual target wasn’t meant for consoles.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The target for max settings is a 4090, so what are you saying here? Games scale up and down and considering the little 3070 beats the brakes off the PS5 by 50% and even outperforms the Pro by around 10%, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the visual target wasn’t meant for consoles.

Games don’t linearly scale up and down with ease, there’s still a general target and that is NOT a 4090, if it was they could optimize much more for that platform.

He was claiming that ps5 gets you 70% of the perceived effect of a ps5 pro (despite doubling the resolution in many cases, so he’s arguing for diminishing returns I guess), same can be said of the ps5 pro to the highest end machines

 

[Gaiff]

Games don’t linearly scale up and down with ease, there’s still a general target and that is NOT a 4090, if it was they could optimize much more for that platform.

There’s no "general target" this makes no sense. The 3070 outperforms the Pro by 10%. Sounds like it’s well-optimized on PC, but not so much on the PS5.

You can just look at how gutted some of the effects are on consoles such as the horrible pixelated shadows. These just seem to suffer from downscaling too low, supporting the notion that 60fps for console was never even a target, hence why they look like they belong on a PS3.

 

[Calico345]

Disgusting and insane that crap like graphics cards can retail for that much. But the rich industrialized capitalist machine chugs ever forward! Defend it!

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

There’s no "general target" this makes no sense. The 3070 outperforms the Pro by 10%. Sounds like it’s well-optimized on PC, but not so much on the PS5.

You can just look at how gutted some of the effects are on consoles such as the horrible pixelated shadows. These just seem to suffer from downscaling too low, supporting the notion that 60fps for console was never even a target, hence why they look like they belong on a PS3.

Yes there is a general target, and that is console and mid range pc’s.

Of course some devs are different than others and may target higher end pc’s at the expense of console optimization and you picked the outlier, not the rule

 

[Gaiff]

Yes there is a general target, and that is console and mid range pc’s.

Is this why a mid-range GPU crushes the PS5 by 50%? Clearly, consoles specs don’t meet said general target.

Of course some devs are different than others and may target higher end pc’s at the expense of console optimization and you picked the outlier, not the rule

You said there are no games that target high-end PCs and I completely disagree. In your head, "targeting" a 4090 probably means a game running at 1440p/30fps on it, which would look great, but no one on a 4090 wants that kind of performance.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Is this why a mid-range GPU crushes the PS5 by 50%? Clearly, consoles specs don’t meet said general target.

Which would that be?

You said there are no games that target high-end PCs and I completely disagree. In your head, "targeting" a 4090 probably means a game running at 1440p/30fps on it, which would look great, but no one on a 4090 wants that kind of performance.

There aren’t. There are games that add more effects, increase resolution, etc. layering in on top of an established base. That’s not the same as targeting.

 

[ozz ex machina]

Disgusting and insane that crap like graphics cards can retail for that much. But the rich industrialized capitalist machine chugs ever forward! Defend it!

I mean - Capitalism is fucked. But "I can't afford the best possible GPU for more FPS because it's a niche premium product" isn't at the top of the list when it comes with issues.

The main issue is that these cards double up to be used for AI compute. If nvidia weren't cunts they'd give gamers a different GPU that somehow can't be utilised for that bullshit.

 

[reinking]

 

[ResilientBanana]

Don’t ever buy one of these

 

[lh032]

ps5 pro is a scam, im jumping to PC gaming, good bye console!

Fyi, 4k us dollar is equivalent to 4-5 PS5 PRO in my country LOL!!!

 

[Arsic]

I’ll be honest I’d go with AMD for my 3080 upgrade IF FSR didn’t suck so much fucking dicks.

If AMD can get it on par with dlss im in and can save money…

 

[Haint]

I mean - Capitalism is fucked. But "I can't afford the best possible GPU for more FPS because it's a niche premium product" isn't at the top of the list when it comes with issues.

The main issue is that these cards double up to be used for AI compute. If nvidia weren't cunts they'd give gamers a different GPU that somehow can't be utilised for that bullshit.

AI's not crypto. nobody's building 4090 farms. The only people using gamer cards for AI are hobbyists making porn on 4chan and Patreon.

I’ll be honest I’d go with AMD for my 3080 upgrade IF FSR didn’t suck so much fucking dicks.

If AMD can get it on par with dlss im in and can save money…

AMD's 8000 series cards aren't expected to exceed the existing 7900GRE or 7900XT, so you'd have no meaningful upgrade path from a 3080 even if FSR was the best upscaler in existent.

 

[Arsic]

AI's not crypto. nobody's building 4090 farms. The only people using gamer cards for AI are hobbyists making porn on 4chan and Patreon.



AMD's 8000 series cards aren't expected to exceed the existing 7900GRE or 7900XT, so you'd have no meaningful upgrade path from a 3080 even if FSR was the best upscaler in existent.

And nvidia is done making 4000 series correct?

I feel just trapped. :/

 

[Metnut]

Worth every penny. 200fps and 4K makes my head hurt. I need 350fps and 8K or might as well not bother.

 

[Hoddi]

I’ll be honest I’d go with AMD for my 3080 upgrade IF FSR didn’t suck so much fucking dicks.

If AMD can get it on par with dlss im in and can save money…

AMD mentioned ML upscaling coming to BO6 in one of their recent marketing videos so it's almost certainly part of RDNA4. I'm in a similar position with a 2080 Ti and I'm quite ready to switch after a decade with nvidia.

Assuming that AMD doesn't flub it anyway.

 

[Kenpachii]

People hoping for AMD to deliver, but in reality they will just price the cards 50 bucks under that of Nvidia and up the prices just as hard and wonder why nobody buys them.

 

[Crayon]

No reason to be mad at $2k cards. People buy them and they're happy with them. If $2k is the wrong price, decide the right price and worry about those cards.

 

[Gaiff]

Which would that be?

Something much more powerful than consoles, else some of the visual feature set wouldn’t fall lower than low and be impossible to have on PC. The value is so low that it’s custom made on consoles and the visual quality gets butchered.

There aren’t. There are games that add more effects, increase resolution, etc. layering in on top of an established base. That’s not the same as targeting.

The moment you bring up path tracing, it’s specific to high-end PCs. It’s not some shit they slapped onto the game after doing everything else. It’s not an afterthought that clashes with the art. That’s what the game is meant to look like. When you remove and it gets gutted like the console version, it’s them going below target as this is when you get massive visual issues and inconsistencies.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Something much more powerful than consoles, else some of the visual feature set wouldn’t fall lower than low and be impossible to have on PC. The value is so low that it’s custom made

You said a mid range gpu crushes ps5. Which mid range gpu is that? It should be roughly 50th percentile for users hardware on pc

Clearly I don’t think AW2 is a good example, I think it was the exception where consoles were an afterthought

The moment you bring up path tracing, it’s specific to high-end PCs. It’s not some shit they slapped onto the game after doing everything else. It’s not an afterthought that clashes with the art. That’s what the game is meant to look like. When you remove and it gets gutted like the console version, it’s them going below target as this is when you get massive visual issues and inconsistencies.

Yes, that is a feature layered on. It’s nowhere near a “gutted” version by its absence. It’s icing on the cake for high end pc users. Plenty of gorgeous games do not have path tracing

 

[Kamina]

With RTX 7 Series i guess people will have to choose if they want to buy a new PC or a car for the money.

 

[Gaiff]

You said a mid range gpu crushes ps5. Which mid range gpu is that? It should be roughly 50th percentile for users hardware on pc

A 3070 is mid-range.

Yes, that is a feature layered on. It’s nowhere near a “gutted” version by its absence. It’s icing on the cake for high end pc users. Plenty of gorgeous games do not have path tracing

No, it isn't the icing on the cake. That's what the damn game is supposed to look like because without it, you got tons of visuals inconsistencies and other problems. The shadows flicker and look terrible. The game clearly isn't meant to look like this. The maxed out version is the "real" version. You can see this when with the removal of path tracing, some weirdness is introduced as if they didn't properly QA because it's just a downgraded version of their vision.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

That's what the damn game is supposed to look like because without it, you got tons of visuals inconsistencies and other problems. The shadows flicker and look terrible. The game clearly isn't meant to look like this. The maxed out version is the "real" version

They clearly made poor decisions, I’m not disagreeing with what you are saying. Games shouldn’t need path tracing to look decent

 

[Gaiff]

They clearly made poor decisions, I’m not disagreeing with what you are saying. Games shouldn’t need path tracing to look decent

Hence why I’m saying the target are high-end PCs. It doesn’t look like they cared that some visual aspects were butchered on consoles or even low-end PCs. They looked at the path-traced version and saw it was good, and then duck-taped something for consoles and low-end PCs.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Hence why I’m saying the target are high-end PCs. It doesn’t look like they cared that some visual aspects were butchered on consoles or even low-end PCs. They looked at the path-traced version and saw it was good, and then duck-taped something for consoles and low-end PCs.

Fair enough. I still say that if they only had to target the absolute highest end card, it would look better.

 

[Dr.D00p]

It's my contention that no one under the age of 30 should be allowed to purchase a GPU.

It's the immature, no self control, 18-30yr old FOMO clown demographic who are feeding this obscene cash grab by Nvidia and all the other OEMs.

Take them out of the picture for 12mths and just see how much and how quickly prices drop back down to sane levels.

 

[Brigandier]

I really don't think the 8800XT is going to offer that sort of performance for 599

Agreed, Sounds like the usual clickbait hopium from the usual suspects that want to see AMD release some competitive cards that are cheap.

If AMD was to release a 4080 super equivalent in raster and RT for 599 it would be perfect card for me and nearly everyone.

I want to return to PC gaming and I have my build all set out it'll cost around £1500 for everything besides the GPU which is around £1100 and that is pretty much stopping me as it's just nuts...

AMD's 8000 series cards aren't expected to exceed the existing 7900GRE or 7900XT, so you'd have no meaningful upgrade path from a 3080 even if FSR was the best upscaler in existent.

If that's really the case then is there really any point even releasing a new card

 

[ToughestSoul]

If I can answer that without sounding too overly conceited

I retired in 2000, we vacation often all over the world, currently staying in our winter home on the coast in Jupiter Florida, we travel all over the US for engagements, fund raisers and the likes.

Spending this on a PC doesn’t even rate on the do I need to talk to the wife meter, she would just laugh and say I dont care babe

you retired at 33? damn dude

 

[Hohenheim]

If I can answer that without sounding too overly conceited

I retired in 2000, we vacation often all over the world, currently staying in our winter home on the coast in Jupiter Florida, we travel all over the US for engagements, fund raisers and the likes.

Spending this on a PC doesn’t even rate on the do I need to talk to the wife meter, she would just laugh and say I dont care babe

If you don't mind me asking, what did you do before retiring so early? Being able to retire at 33 and live a life without financial worries sounds amazing.

 

[Mayar]

Timeless classic...

 

[Ronin_7]

LMAO

How much are we expecting these cards to be?

 

[Boneless]

I would consider it if there would be games that validate this type of graphics card, but there is not really a Crysis of this time.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

you retired at 33? damn dude

If you don't mind me asking, what did you do before retiring so early? Being able to retire at 33 and live a life without financial worries sounds amazing.

I was fortunate enough to play professional baseball for a total of 13 years starting in 1987

I was terrified I would not have a long career so literally saved every dime I made over that span investing it into land that turned into a financial gold mine of housing

 

[Cyberpunkd]

If I can answer that without sounding too overly conceited

I retired in 2000, we vacation often all over the world, currently staying in our winter home on the coast in Jupiter Florida, we travel all over the US for engagements, fund raisers and the likes.

Spending this on a PC doesn’t even rate on the do I need to talk to the wife meter, she would just laugh and say I dont care babe

Cool, but you are an edge case. Although I guess they are not really counting on gamers for that, is this applicable to AI development or crypto mining?

 

[ozz ex machina]

AI's not crypto. nobody's building 4090 farms. The only people using gamer cards for AI are hobbyists making porn on 4chan and Patreon.

I tangentially work in the industry. Trust me 4090 cards get used a lot for machine learning, research etc.

 

[DerivedDataCache]

Finally time for the 4090 to be dropping in price.