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[Manmademan]

And there's one of the biggest pressures on the X1's creation laid bare.

It's designed as a marketing wet dream.

lots of us called this from day one.

 

[Neuromancer]

Unplug it if this tinfoil hat stuff scares you, or better yet, don't buy it?

I'm not buying it.

 

[ironcreed]

I usually stay away from the other Xbox One threads but I feel like this needs to be addressed. Even if you can disconnect Kinect, you still need to pay for it since it is mandatory included in the package. Even if you don't want that thing. Of course I don't know what numbers Microsoft are expecting in terms of Ads revenue to offset people who are being pushed away simply by the price differences, due to the inclusion of Kinect.

Pretty much.

 

[SPDIF]

There are two Kinect APIs, one for apps and one for ads. The fact that MS wants to serve interactive ads that can respond to voice commands and gestures is enough to make me puke.

Microsoft aren't alone in this line of thinking. They may be further down the road in implementing it, but it's not like Sony isn't thinking about it as well. In the future you may just have to get used to it, or play on the PC / Nintendo consoles exclusively.

 

[LCfiner]

I'm sure MS have similar patents.



You do know Sony will likely be advertising on their 'dash' too right? They've talked about game discoverability in the past and the only realistic way to approach that is by having advertising front and centre when you start your console.

There's no getting away from it. Ads are here to stay. Nintendo will likely be the only one that's not forcing ads on people in a couple of years.

We’ve seen the Sony UI. It’s predominantly your own purchased content. I know Cerny talked about looking at your game library and - if you enable it - downloading game demos in the background, similar to your library.

But the UI does not push ads and promotional store content the way Xbox does. And, naturally, they have nothing even CLOSE to the kinect for monitoring your reactions to ads. While playing games or watching video.

there’s a huge gulf between the two companies in how they treat advertising in the UI.

 

[Finalizer]

I hope sony fails as hard as ms. The next generation kills everything i was excited about videogames my whole life. What is wrong with you guys???

You're determined to wiggle a Sony Too™ into all these kinds of topics, no matter how forced and uncorrelated it may be. Props to your determination, I guess.

 

[Amir0x]

why do they keep letting shit like this be discussed so readily in the public? Maybe they don't have control over that or something, I dunno. But seriously, what fucking consumer wants to hear that a system they're thinking about buying is made for advertisers to jizz over? I mean, in what universe is that an attractive thing to hear about a potential purchase?

It's like "hey guys there's this new awesome TV channel with 2x the amount of commercials! Tune in soon!"

I seriously don't understand what is wrong with Microsoft. The Xbox Division seems fundamentally broken in this generation or some shit.

 

[RedNumberFive]

It's a good thing that we have another choice. A cheaper, more powerful choice, that hasn't been built from the ground up as an advertisement delivery mechanism.

 

[hawk2025]

So, here's what we know about the advertising game and how MS sees it:

- Google makes an incredible amount of money with their pay-per-click search ads. Billions. Multi-billions. More than anyone expected.
- Microsoft clearly wants that advertising market. This is why Bing exists.
- Microsoft Research is dedicated, among other things, to running experiments on Bing and understanding how advertising revenue responds to different levels of information (see their website for more)
- the Xbox environment is prime advertising real estate, even more so than Bing, with a beautifully focused, cash-filled customer base.
- several execs have talked about kinect's potential for advertisement


The writing's on the fucking wall. There's more money (much more money) to be made advertising to Xbox One owner than securing an additional exclusive that sells 500 thousand copies. Microsoft knows this, and has been chasing it at least since the advent of Bing. And Albert wants us to believe that no one's working on that approach at the moment and the interview was only speculative? Bullshit. Albert's quote means absolutely nothing against the piles of evidence otherwise.

 

[fastford58]

This type of marketing would require opting in.

Yeah...like as soon as you accept the user agreement when you first boot the console.

 

[Liberty4all]

I'm sure MS have similar patents.



You do know Sony will likely be advertising on their 'dash' too right? They've talked about game discoverability in the past and the only realistic way to approach that is by having advertising front and centre when you start your console.

There's no getting away from it. Ads are here to stay. Nintendo will likely be the only one that's not forcing ads on people in a couple of years.

oh I am sure Sony will. But Sony's dash this Gen was smooth and ads unobtrusive. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that they will implement it always with the hardcore faithful in mind. Everything about the PS4 has been presented that Sony cares about not pissing off their core audience first and foremost

 

[haterofpants]

I'm sure MS have similar patents..

You're right. Although, they give cheevos for theirs.

Producers, distributors, and advertisers of the video content may set viewing goals and award a viewer who has reached the goals. By providing content viewing goals and awarding the viewer for reaching the goals, the present disclosure provides for an interactive television viewing experience. Additionally, by tying the awards and achievements to particular items of video or advertising content, viewers may be encouraged to increase their viewership of the content, thus increasing advertising opportunities.

The viewing behaviors may include the viewer 108 watching an item of linear video content, or watching a combination of items of linear video content. Additionally, the viewing behavior may include an action performable by the viewer 108 and detectable by one or more sensors 106, such as a depth camera.

The computing system 102 may be configured to track the viewing behaviors of one or more viewers. The computing system 102 may then compile one or more user-specific reports of the viewing behaviors, and send the user-specific reports to a remote device to determine whether the user-viewing goal has been met.

Another example viewing behavior includes the viewer performing a specific action while watching the linear video content. In such a case, the actions taken by the viewer may be sensed by a sensor, such as sensor 106. For example, the viewer may display a product that is imaged by a camera, and the computing system 102 may identify the product. In another example, the viewer simply being present, as detected by the sensor, may constitute an action taken. More information regarding sensing actions of the viewer will be described below with respect to FIGS. 4 and 5.

In embodiments where the user-viewing goal includes the user performing an action, an experience module 418 associated with the computing system 404 may launch. The experience module 418 may be configured to receive information regarding one or more conditions of the user-viewing goal, receive observation information from one or more sensors, and interpret the observation information. The experience module 418 may further be configured to send the interpretation to the promotional service 412. A vision module 420 may assist the experience module 418 in interpreting the received observation information. The vision module 420 may be configured to recognize objects displayed by the viewer, determine which actions the viewer is performing, etc. While shown separately in the depicted embodiment, the experience module 418 and the vision module 420 may be integrated as part of the computing system 404.

 

[G17]

Hasn't it already been confirmed that there is a separate API for advertisers for Kinect? Don't think whether they will use Kinect for advertising is debatable now.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Good thing I'm not buying the Xbone. Way too much fuckery for me.

 

[Uno Venova]

reasons why the 'console manufacturer you would miss the least' thread was so unanimous.

 

[jetjevons]

Smells like FUD to me.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

We’ve seen the Sony UI. It’s predominantly your own purchased content. I know Cerny talked about looking at your game library and - if you enable it - downloading game demos in the background, similar to your library.

But the UI does not push ads and promotional store content the way Xbox does. And, naturally, they have nothing even CLOSE to the kinect for monitoring your reactions to ads. While playing games or watching video.

there’s a huge gulf between the two companies in how they treat advertising in the UI.

The tiled based nature of the PS4 UI heavily suggests that once there's a significant amount of content on the PS4 marketplace, we'll start to see more ads. I doubt (hope) we'll non game related ads any time soon though and that's great. Non gaming ads are the only thing that annoy me about the 360 dash, that one, often animated window at the bottom is easy to ignore, but it's taking up a spot that could be used to advertise content already on the marketplace.

My point is that it's going to be a big thing going forward, Sony and MS will feature more and more advertising. Whereas MS is making crazy money from non gaming ads right now, it's not too unbelievable a suggestion to make that Sony undoubtedly want a piece of that very lucrative pie. The question is, will they take steps to ensure they get a piece or be happy with sub money and the ad revenue that game ads generate...which is pretty lucrative too from what I've read.

MS, as with this gen, will likely end up taking it to an extreme with the addition of Kinect, but let's not forget that both companies have patents on ads that use voice commands and gestures. This is obviously something that's not going away...

 

[davepoobond]

I'm excited about being marketed to

 

[ironcreed]

So, here's what we know about the advertising game and how MS sees it:

- Google makes an incredible amount of money with their pay-per-click search ads. Billions. Multi-billions. More than anyone expected.
- Microsoft clearly wants that advertising market. This is why Bing exists.
- Microsoft Research is dedicated, among other things, to running experiments on Bing and understanding how advertising revenue responds to different levels of information (see their website for more)
- the Xbox environment is prime advertising real estate, even more so than Bing, with a beautifully focused, cash-filled customer base.
- several execs have talked about kinect's potential for advertisement


The writing's on the fucking wall. There's more money (much more money) to be made advertising to Xbox One owner than securing an additional exclusive that sells 500 thousand copies. Microsoft knows this, and has been chasing it at least since the advent of Bing. Albert's quote means absolutely nothing against the piles of evidence otherwise.

Microsoft needs to just go focus on Windows or something. This philosophy of dipping their hands into every pot and trying to cram it all into this Frankenstein of a console is the reason why some share holders want to see the Xbox division scrapped altogether. They have simply lost the plot from where I stand.

 

[CadetMahoney]

a sure sign they will lose next gen handily when they do anti-consumer things like this. Good thing Sony won't try any of this advertising.

 

[fastford58]

Some of that 10% being used for this garbage? Even if you "opt out", you still lose.

This pretty much seals it for me, I think.

 

[inherendo]

I don't approve of MS's practices as a consumer, but in a business sense it makes sense. They are not selling the console for a loss or a very small one. Kinect will appeal to the casual audience, they are marketing it as more than just a dedicated game machine which is the only way they can really justify the 500$ price point, and they monetize live very well. Again, for consumers this sucks, but they are a business and their business model looks promising.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

It's really sad that Microsoft has not gotten over their Google Envy yet...

Exactly. But ironic because this is something they hate that Google does and claimed that they don't do but welp... It looks like they are no different.

 

[Freki]

Smells like FUD to me.

You really think MS execs would spread FUD about their own product?
Well I guess this gives further credence to this chart:

 

[SPDIF]

Microsoft needs to just go focus on Windows or something. This philosophy of dipping their hands into every pot and trying to cram it all into this Frankenstein of a console is the reason why some share holders want to see the Xbox brand scrapped altogether. They have simply lost the plot from where I stand.

With the traditional PC market shrinking that's obviously not a good idea. And the reason they want to get rid of the Xbox (which is looking less and less likely) is simply because it's not making as much money as their other products. Microsoft doing something like this is one way to fix that.

 

[gaming_noob]

I just posted this on my Facebook. We cannot allow these corporations to toy us around like this.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Some of that 10% being used for this garbage? Even if you "opt out", you still lose.

This pretty much seals it for me, I think.

You mean it wasn't sealed for you before?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I just posted this on my Facebook. We cannot allow these corporations to toy us around like this.

Tweet it to Greenberg, see if he replies.

 

[Zukuu]

That was VERY clear from the initial Xbox reveal. I remember reading something along those lines. It'll be used sooner or later, willingly or not.

 

[beast786]

I'm excited about being marketed to

 

[Paskil]

Tracking lost. Reposition yourself in the Kinect sensor window

Spoiler

to be served up delicious Moutain Dew, Dorito, and McDonald's ads.

That's the text you can't see in the box.

 

[ironcreed]

With the traditional PC market shrinking that's obviously not a good idea. And the reason they want to get rid of the Xbox (which is looking less and less likely) is simply because it's not making as much money as their other products. Microsoft doing something like this is one way to fix that.

Then good luck to them. None of their bloat appeals to me as a gamer, and I don't want to pay $100 extra for it when it is pared back on the performance side of things because of it.

 

[IAmRandom31]

I don't know what to say anymore, except ...

Pretty much sums it up

 

[fastford58]

You mean it wasn't sealed for you before?

There was a remote chance, though my distaste with the direction MS has taken has been well articulated.

A kinectless sku is the only way to fix this particular issue. I'm not paying an extra $100 for a dust collector even if I could just unplug the thing.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

I'm sure MS have similar patents.



You do know Sony will likely be advertising on their 'dash' too right? They've talked about game discoverability in the past and the only realistic way to approach that is by having advertising front and centre when you start your console.

I don't mind seeing an advert about a game on a games console, but I don't want to be shown an advert for shop where I can buy a sandwich and a packet crisps.

See also: Sony too!

 

[walltowall]

a sure sign they will lose next gen handily when they do anti-consumer things like this. Good thing Sony won't try any of this advertising.

Yeah good thing.......surely you're joking right? If you think Sony won't monetize their system you're being willfully blind.

 

[UNCMark]

Almost everything about this console makes me think MS thought it was a forgone conclusion that they were going to be the top console and could thus get away with whatever they wanted.

 

[LCfiner]

I don't approve of MS's practices as a consumer, but in a business sense it makes sense. They are not selling the console for a loss or a very small one. Kinect will appeal to the casual audience, they are marketing it as more than just a dedicated game machine which is the only way they can really justify the 500$ price point, and they monetize live very well. Again, for consumers this sucks, but they are a business and their business model looks promising.

But Kinect isn’t free. Kinect is a big reason the console is $500.

I think some people are overestimating the desire of the mass market for a box that overlays web info on the TV screen along with Live TV. I honestly do not think this is a killer app. there have been other boxes that have done this (perhaps more clumsily than xbone) but they’ve never taken off - even at $99.

If a $500 xbox ends up selling to the casual mass market crowd this xmas or even in the next 12 months, I’ll be shocked. It’s the hardcore gaming crowd that buys machines at launch at high prices and the decisions MS made have produced a box less desirable for big chunks of this crowd (and forget about international support outside the US).

I don’t see how it’s a smart business model at all. They have features that are possibly interesting to a mass market crowd but tied to a box that is priced high enough to only attract the dedicated gamers or real tech heads that need to try everything.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Yeah good thing.......surely you're joking right? If you think Sony won't monetize their system you're being willfully blind.

They've already monetised it with PSN+ and online multiplayer, I doubt they're going to start selling my fizzy drinks on my games console. You can save this post and throw it back at me if I'm wrong.

 

[thunder_snail]

I actually don't mind advances in ads. What I'm not okay with is how MS is charging people for Kinect so they can collect data about them and sell that data to advertising companies. it's like making customers pay to see ads. What they should have done is bundle Kinect for free and make up the cost by selling data to marketing companies. (I'm not talking about private data here.)

 

[onanie]

Yeah good thing.......surely you're joking right? If you think Sony won't monetize their system you're being willfully blind.

Just like how Sony was surely going to DRM it like Microsoft.

 

[weekend_warrior]

Almost everything about this console makes me think MS thought it was a forgone conclusion that they were going to be the top console and could thus get away with whatever they wanted.

3rd console jinx.

 

[Into]

Yeah good thing.......surely you're joking right? If you think Sony won't monetize their system you're being willfully blind.

There is a reason why Sony Too! has become a meme, every single distasteful thing that MS was going to put in their console was also going to be done by Sony

All of it turned out to be BS.

 

[Liberty4all]

But Kinect isn’t free. Kinect is a big reason the console is $500.

I think some people are overestimating the desire of the mass market for a box that overlays web info on the TV screen along with Live TV. I honestly do not think this is a killer app. there have been other boxes that have done this (perhaps more clumsily than xbone) but they’ve never taken off - even at $99.

If a $500 xbox ends up selling to the casual mass market crowd this xmas or even in the next 12 months, I’ll be shocked. It’s the hardcore gaming crowd that buys machines at launch at high prices and the decisions MS made have produced a box less desirable for big chunks of this crowd (and forget about international support outside the US).

I don’t see how it’s a smart business model at all. They have features that are possibly interesting to a mass market crowd but tied to a box that is priced high enough to only attract the dedicated gamers or real tech heads that need to try everything.

I agree. If anything these initiatives going back to the 360s dash refresh have continued to poison the well.

I can't speak for others but MS has left me so pissed and disillusioned I sold my 360 (with 4 months of Live left), have 0 plans of getting an Xbone, and ACTIVELY go out of my way to warn casuals not to buy it.

It's one thing to have a little negativity about your product launch, but another to have the knowledgeable hardcore base actively telling casuals your product is evil.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

I got a lot of people telling me I was spreading fanboy lies. Documented and sourced fanboy lies straight from Microsoft exec's mouths. I'm pretty talented to pull that off if I do say so myself.


They weren't even trying to hide this shit until the whole NSA/Privacy debate heated up.

Seems you make the grade then, tho I'd say you didn't have to prove anything to anyone to be believed; MS has done enough of the proving themselves.

I'm almost of the belief they'll bring the DRM policies back online after all.

 

[MesserWolf]

All this reminds me of the second episode of the tv serie black mirror..... Check it out if you haven't seen it.

 

[FeiRR]

There was a remote chance, though my distaste with the direction MS has taken has been well articulated.

A kinectless sku is the only way to fix this particular issue. I'm not paying an extra $100 for a dust collector even if I could just unplug the thing.

Do you think dashboard ads will disappear if you don't use Kinect? They'll just be less accurate.

 

[LCfiner]

Almost everything about this console makes me think MS thought it was a forgone conclusion that they were going to be the top console and could thus get away with whatever they wanted.

Everything about the xbone looks like it’s based on a mandate from upper level MS execs to rapidly expand xbox revenue. the only way they could think of to do this was to expand the functionality and try to make it more of a TV/web box than games box (and the initial DRM policies that would result in more income from restricting used sales).

I remain highly skeptical that it will work.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Yeah good thing.......surely you're joking right? If you think Sony won't monetize their system you're being willfully blind.

I really don't think Sony will be doing all this advertising thing MS does.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Yeah good thing.......surely you're joking right? If you think Sony won't monetize their system you're being willfully blind.

You haven't finished your training Ryu; you never learned the art of Use Your Own Brain.